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Roster cuts

I have a real problem with the "I can't ignore what he did in practice" BS. Why in the hell would you keep the QB you benched? Booty is no prize but at least he doesn't screw up like enzone boy.

The biggest problem I have with this organization is that it sticks with guys that don't produce way too long - David Carr, Kris Brown, Jacques Reeves, Travis Johnson, Morlon Greenwood, Amobi Okoye, Chris Myers etc.... And, its not like its one year of bad play, its year, after year, after year!

Hey coach, have you ever thought that our players look good in practice because many of our players stink. I'm sure Chris Myers does a hell of a job against our DT, because our DTs suck. When Myers goes against a decent DT, he gets thrown around like a rag doll.:foottap:
 
drs23 said:
Not a jab or anything like it, you're a new poster, but that's an NFL section thing and it's posted there.
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Yes it is an NFL-thing, but I posted it here in response to posts on this thread about reacquiring Rosenfels.

EDIT: Forgot to quote the posts I was responding to...

valleytexfan said:
Dumb question...if Sage gets cut do we take a look?
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michaelm said:
If Sage cets cut, sign him, and cut Dano.
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rmartin65 said:
Not dumb... I would take a look.
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rmartin65 said:
Some interesting cuts, but nothing really "WTF?!" going on there. Scratch that, the Johnson release is a surprise. I think he will be claimed.
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I feel the same is a possibility. I thought you couldn't release an injured player?
 
sounmds like a whole lot of bullshi't to me. I check back in tomrrow and see what it's actually really is.

In the meantime, itdoes seem to be Fr4iday. LOL
 
b0ng said:
I feel the same is a possibility. I thought you couldn't release an injured player?
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Sure, you can waive someone who's injured but this sounds like they tried to IR him and he didn't want to lose the whole season. So they reached a settlement. So now he's free to find another team and possibly play.
 
Jeremiah Johnson is a risk to me. I'm wondering if the significance of his injury is more than we thought. Even if he's expect to be out 3 weeks or so, (speculation) then Foster, Ward, Slaton, and Johnson is a solid stable. Johnson is inactive on game day's until healthy in that scenario but he's also insurance down the road for Slaton and Ward. They are question marks in my mind. Perhaps the cut to practice squad approach is not as risky as it seems.

From what I've seen Johnson could make plenty of rosters in this league. Of course we haven't really seen him pass protect.

The good news to me is that White is gone. He looked terrible. Every player that has seemed unthinkable to make the roster is gone, most notably Bennett and White. (in the past that hasn't always been the case.) I am starting to make a case for why they are keeping Okam. Maybe I'm just rationalizing it. Then again, all the cuts aren't in.

We'll be breaking down the cuts over at the blog too.
 
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TPN: Are you saying that he's gone and is currently looking for other teams, or that he's a P-squad candidate. I don't understand why they didn't PUP him if he's only out for a month.
 
Practice Squad prediction:

Booty
JJohnson
CHenry
B. Williams
Steve Maneri
Sheppard
Torri Williams
Mark Parsons
 
dalemurphy said:
Practice Squad prediction:

Booty
JJohnson
CHenry
B. Williams
Steve Maneri
Sheppard
Torri Williams
Mark Parsons
Click to expand...

I would think/hope Johnson makes the roster. They can't go with just 3 (including Ward who was signed today). I don't think Chris Henry has eligibility, but I haven't really checked the rules to be certain.

Edit - I didn't see the Chron article about releasing Johnson. That's too bad. They'll still need to find someone else I think. I don't like carrying only 3 when 1 of them is hurt and another hasn't even unpacked in his hotel.
 
Hagar said:
The biggest problem I have with this organization is that it sticks with guys that don't produce way too long - David Carr, Kris Brown, Jacques Reeves, Travis Johnson, Morlon Greenwood, Amobi Okoye, Chris Myers etc.... And, its not like its one year of bad play, its year, after year, after year!:
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Kris Brown had a horrible year last year, but the previous 3 had been great. He made clutch kicks and we won some games because of him. The team made the change this year so I don't agree with that.

Carr threw for 3,500 yards in his 3rd season. While that isn't tremendous he had made strides each season and that was in a Dom Capers offense which is the equivalent of 4,000 in a pro offense. He had a horrible 4th season and with a new coach coming in that had success with QBs they wanted to give their investment a chance. In retrospect they should have made the move earlier, but I don't think any team in the same situation would have made that move.
 
b0ng said:
TPN: Are you saying that he's gone and is currently looking for other teams, or that he's a P-squad candidate. I don't understand why they didn't PUP him if he's only out for a month.
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Well, it's weird the way they wrote it up in the Chron:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7185742.html
The Texans waived running back Jeremiah Johnson, their second-leading rusher in preseason who suffered a dislocated toe in Thursday’s 24-17 loss to Tampa Bay. They will reach an injury settlement with him and could bring him back to the practice squad.
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The fact that they "reached an injury settlement" sounds like they tried to IR him but he didn't want to go on IR, so they had to reach an injury settlement.

Now, that still allows him to go to the PS if no one else signs him. But it was just odd the way they wrote it.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
I would think/hope Johnson makes the roster. They can't go with just 3 (including Ward who was signed today). I don't think Chris Henry has eligibility, but I haven't really checked the rules to be certain.
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I'm pretty sure Chris Henry does have eligibility.

I think they're going to try to stuff Johnson on the PS until he's healthy and then bring him up.

I expect them to sign at least one more RB to serve as a stopgap until Jeremiah's ready.

It's kinda risky to do it this way. But it means they can get him back sooner than they could if they PUP'd him.
 
beerlover said:
All he wanted is to be paid where he & his agent have him slotted against comparables around the league. Owen doesn't strike me as a greedy, selfish me first athlete.
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I don't know him so I have no clue if he is greedy or not...

I think I heard somewhere that he was offered a pretty nice contract but turned it down, so the team did what was within their rights and tendered him.

If Owen wants top TE money ala Kellen Winslow, I'd let him walk...

Honestly I'd seriously consider trading him even if he wants a big contract but not as big as Winslow's...

We have a good group of guys there that should be able to get it done. Maybe Kubes just wants to see how those guys perform in real action before he pulls the trigger on an Owen trade...I dunno...

Just makes some sense to trade him IMO with all things considered...Injury history, Young capable guys behind him, lots of TE's, weak at other positions, and of course getting him signed to a reasonable contract...
 
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I'm not sure what went down with Jeremiah Johnson, but that sucks. I thought he was clearly the second-best RB we had, and honestly, ran with enough attitude that I was excited to see him get a chance behind Foster.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
It's kinda risky to do it this way. But it means they can get him back sooner than they could if they PUP'd him.
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Johnson is not allowed to be placed on PUP since he wasn't on the Active/PUP list during training camp.

If a player fails his physical or has not recovered from a football related injury at the start of training camp, he can be placed on the Active/PUP list. That player is not allowed to practice with the team. He may attend meetings, film study, etc., but must work out on an individual basis away from the team. A player on Active/PUP counts against the 80-man training camp roster. A team may take the player off the Active/PUP list at anytime during training camp or preseason.

If the player that is on Active/PUP will not be ready for the beginning of the season, a team may put him on the Reserve/PUP list. In order for a player to be placed on Reserve/PUP he must have been on the Active/PUP list first. A player on the Reserve/PUP list does not count against the 53-man roster. A player on Reserve/PUP is required to miss six games. After the six games a team has three weeks for the player to start practicing with the team. Once the player begins practicing then the team has another three weeks to active him to the 53-man roster. If a team fails to place the player on the active roster or does not practice him after the three weeks, the player is automatically placed on IR. A team can also place the player on IR at anytime that he is on Reserve/PUP.

The Texans had two players on Active/PUP at the start of training camp. Owen Daniels was taken off Active/PUP and allowed to practice with the team last week. Anthony Hill was moved from the Active/PUP to the Reserve/PUP today.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Well, it's weird the way they wrote it up in the Chron:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7185742.html


The fact that they "reached an injury settlement" sounds like they tried to IR him but he didn't want to go on IR, so they had to reach an injury settlement.

Now, that still allows him to go to the PS if no one else signs him. But it was just odd the way they wrote it.
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I'm not so sure that it's that odd. If the Texans want him and will wait for his return, they would have to keep him on the roster for that time. If they wanted him this year, they couldn't IR him. If they reached a injury settlement and released him, it is unlikely at this point in the preseason with his history that he would not clear waivers. They could resign him either for the active roster or the PS when he is healed.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Well, it's weird the way they wrote it up in the Chron:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7185742.html


The fact that they "reached an injury settlement" sounds like they tried to IR him but he didn't want to go on IR, so they had to reach an injury settlement.

Now, that still allows him to go to the PS if no one else signs him. But it was just odd the way they wrote it.
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First, think about this - What would your reaction be if the Texans signed a guy who was an UDFA coming out of college, spent his first season on IR, had never been active for a regular season game - much less played in one, was injured and unable to play at the time they signed him, they weren't sure how long he'd be out, and they had to release someone who was currently on their 53 man roster to bring him on board? Nobody's gonna claim Jeremiah Johnson off waivers.

Secondly, you can't waive an injured player unless you reach a settlement, so the fact that there was an injury settlement shouldn't really lead you to any conclusions about him not wanting to go on IR. It gives no clue either way (and for what it's worth, I'm not even sure if a player has any say so in the matter if the team wants to place him on IR).

Which brings me to my last point. There's been a couple of posts suggesting the Texans put JJ on the PUP list, or wondering why they didn't. The reason is simple - they couldn't. You can't put someone on the "reserve" PUP list unless they've previously been on the "active" PUP list. You can't go on the active PUP list after the start of training camp. The only two players the Texans put on the active PUP list were O.D. and Anthony Hill. O.D. was activated a few days ago, and Anthony Hill is now on the reserve PUP list - and therefore not taking up a roster spot.

My guess is the Texans figure JJ will be able to play soon enough that to putting him on IR is too drastic, and they simply can't afford to have a backup player taking up space on the 53 man roster who has zero chance of playing for an indefinite period of time. Getting him on the PS basically serves the same purpose as PUP would have if it were an option, except that he can practice with them (when healthy enough), and the 6 week period can be shorter, or can go the entire season.
 
ChampionTexan said:
First, think about this - What would your reaction be if the Texans signed a guy who was an UDFA coming out of college, spent his first season on IR, had never been active for a regular season game - much less played in one, was injured and unable to play at the time they signed him, they weren't sure how long he'd be out, and they had to release someone who was currently on their 53 man roster to bring him on board? Nobody's gonna claim Jeremiah Johnson off waivers.

Secondly, you can't waive an injured player unless you reach a settlement, so the fact that there was an injury settlement shouldn't really lead you to any conclusions about him not wanting to go on IR. It gives no clue either way (and for what it's worth, I'm not even sure if a player has any say so in the matter if the team wants to place him on IR).

Which brings me to my last point. There's been a couple of posts suggesting the Texans put JJ on the PUP list, or wondering why they didn't. The reason is simple - they couldn't. You can't put someone on the "reserve" PUP list unless they've previously been on the "active" PUP list. You can't go on the active PUP list after the start of training camp. The only two players the Texans put on the active PUP list were O.D. and Anthony Hill. O.D. was activated a few days ago, and Anthony Hill is now on the reserve PUP list - and therefore not taking up a roster spot.

My guess is the Texans figure JJ will be able to play soon enough that to putting him on IR is too drastic, and they simply can't afford to have a player taking up space on the 53 man roster who has zero chance of playing for an indefinite period of time. Getting him on the PS basically serves the same purpose as PUP would have if it were an option, except that he can practice with them (when healthy enough), and the 6 week period can be shorter, or can go the entire season.
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Well said. Better than I could. JJ has a future if he can stay healthy. Has of yet to show that he can. He is safe for now, unless he just don't want to be here.
 
ChampionTexan said:
First, think about this - What would your reaction be if the Texans signed a guy who was an UDFA coming out of college, spent his first season on IR, had never been active for a regular season game - much less played in one, was injured and unable to play at the time they signed him, they weren't sure how long he'd be out, and they had to release someone who was currently on their 53 man roster to bring him on board? Nobody's gonna claim Jeremiah Johnson off waivers.

Secondly, you can't waive an injured player unless you reach a settlement, so the fact that there was an injury settlement shouldn't really lead you to any conclusions about him not wanting to go on IR. It gives no clue either way (and for what it's worth, I'm not even sure if a player has any say so in the matter if the team wants to place him on IR).

Which brings me to my last point. There's been a couple of posts suggesting the Texans put JJ on the PUP list, or wondering why they didn't. The reason is simple - they couldn't. You can't put someone on the "reserve" PUP list unless they've previously been on the "active" PUP list. You can't go on the active PUP list after the start of training camp. The only two players the Texans put on the active PUP list were O.D. and Anthony Hill. O.D. was activated a few days ago, and Anthony Hill is now on the reserve PUP list - and therefore not taking up a roster spot.

My guess is the Texans figure JJ will be able to play soon enough that to putting him on IR is too drastic, and they simply can't afford to have a backup player taking up space on the 53 man roster who has zero chance of playing for an indefinite period of time. Getting him on the PS basically serves the same purpose as PUP would have if it were an option, except that he can practice with them (when healthy enough), and the 6 week period can be shorter, or can go the entire season.
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Edit: Yes, basically, they paid him or guaranteed full hcontract (etc) with the hopes that he would not sign with another team, practice or regualr squad.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm not so sure that it's that odd. If the Texans want him and will wait for his return, they would have to keep him on the roster for that time. If they wanted him this year, they couldn't IR him. If they reached a injury settlement and released him, it is unlikely at this point in the preseason with his history that he would not clear waivers. They could resign him either for the active roster or the PS when he is healed.
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Actually, my guess is that they sign him to the PS immediately. In addition to attending meetings, staying engaged, and just absorbing the NFL environment, that would also keep him off someone else's practice squad.

While no NFL team's gonna put him on their 53 man roster, their practice squad could well be a different story.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Actually, my guess is that they sign him to the PS immediately. In addition to attending meetings, staying engaged, and just absorbing the NFL environment, that would also keep him off someone else's practice squad.

While no NFL team's gonna put him on their 53 man roster, their practice squad could well be a different story.
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Thanks for the info regarding PUP, injury settlement and waiving above posters.

Now on to this one, if a team picks up a player on waivers they have to put him on the 53 right now right?
 
b0ng said:
Thanks for the info regarding PUP, injury settlement and waiving above posters.

Now on to this one, if a team picks up a player on waivers they have to put him on the 53 right now right?
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Players picked up on waivers are not restricted to the 53 man active (or inactive) roster.

You're thinking of a team picking a player off of another teams practice squad
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Players picked up on waivers are not restricted to the 53 man active roster.

You're thinking of a team picking a player off of another teams practice squad
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So wait, you're saying that a player waived (JJ in this case) can be picked up by another team and put directly on their PS?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Yes, just like if we pick him up on waivers, he will likely be placed on the PS until healthy enough to play.
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After a few weeks of play could we poach him off that team's p-squad and sign him to our 53 if we have a spot allowed? (P-squad guys are not protected throughout the season, correct?)
 
b0ng said:
After a few weeks of play could we poach him off that team's p-squad and sign him to our 53 if we have a spot allowed? (P-squad guys are not protected throughout the season, correct?)
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Practice Squad players are free to negotiate a contract to become active with any team, including their own.
 
DoCRoN said:
So wait, you're saying that a player waived (JJ in this case) can be picked up by another team and put directly on their PS?
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Yes, just like if we pick him up on waivers, he will likely be placed on the PS until healthy enough to play.
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I realize this is only semantics, but a player can't be picked up "off of waivers" and placed on any team's practice squad (including the team that waived him). A player must clear waivers - at which time he becomes a street free agent. When and if he does, he can then be signed to any team's practice squad. Also, a team picking up a player "off of waivers" must honor the contract that existed at the time he was waived. If the waiver period expires, they are free to negotiate any contract both sides are willing to accept.

I'm not sure exactly how long the waiver period is, but if the player is picked up before it has expired (That is, picked up off the waiver wire), then they must be added to the teams 53 man roster.

Back to Jeremiah Johnson specifically - my guess is that as a part of the injury settlement accompanying his release, there was an agreement that he wouldn't sign for any other team's practice squad. Don't know if that could be an above board agreement, or had to be an under the table type thing (in which case the Texans would be relying on JJ's word), but I'm thinking there was an understanding in place when he was waived.
 
ChampionTexan said:
I realize this is only semantics, but a player can't be picked up "off of waivers" and placed on any team's practice squad (including the team that waived him). A player must clear waivers - at which time he becomes a street free agent. When and if he does, he can then be signed to any team's practice squad. Also, a team picking up a player "off of waivers" must honor the contract that existed at the time he was waived. If the waiver period expires, they are free to negotiate any contract both sides are willing to accept.

I'm not sure exactly how long the waiver period is, but if the player is picked up before it has expired (That is, picked up off the waiver wire), then they must be added to the teams 53 man roster.

Back to Jeremiah Johnson specifically - my guess is that as a part of the injury settlement accompanying his release, there was an agreement that he wouldn't sign for any other team's practice squad. Don't know if that could be an above board agreement, or had to be an under the table type thing (in which case the Texans would be relying on JJ's word), but I'm thinking there was an understanding in place when he was waived.
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In the case of an injury settlement, it is my understanding that it is signed in exchange for voiding of the original contract. Therefore, there is no existing contract.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
In the case of an injury settlement, it is my understanding that it is signed in exchange for voiding of the original contract. Therefore, there is no existing contract.
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Well I don't know if this is apples to apples or not, but waiving a healthy player (a situation with no injury settlement) voids the remaining contract as far as the team waiving him goes (assuming no future guaranteed money), but it doesn't void the contract if another NFL team picks him up off the waiver wire.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Well I don't know if this is apples to apples or not, but waiving a healthy player (a situation with no injury settlement) voids the remaining contract as far as the team waiving him goes (assuming no future guaranteed money), but it doesn't void the contract if another NFL team picks him up off the waiver wire.
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Understood. I specifically, though, meant to refer to JJ's situation.
 
so in a nutshell

The Houston Texans waived PK Kris Brown, RB Chris J. Henry, CB Jacques Reeves, QB John David Booty, FB Jack Corcoran, TE Derek Fine, LB Isaiah Greenhouse, C Brett Helms, OT Steve Maneri, CB Mark Parson, LB Will Patterson, OT Cole Pemberton, OT Deljuan Robinson, DT Malcolm Sheppard, OT Adam Stenavich, WR Derrick Townsel, DT Mitch Unrein, C Chris L. White, WR Bobby X. Williams and S Torri Williams, reports John McClain, of The Houston Chronicle.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/18/nfl#ixzz0yZx5kjTI
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http://www.kffl.com/team/18/nfl


Texans | Andre' Davis out for the year


Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:15:14 -0400

The Houston Texans placed WR Andre' Davis (hip) on season-ending Injured Reserve, reports John McClain, of The Houston Chronicle.

Texans | Anthony Hill on PUP


Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:13:38 -0400

The Houston Texans placed TE Anthony Hill (knee) on the physically unable to perform list, reports John McClain, of The Houston Chronicle. Hill will miss at least the first six games of the season.
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Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/18/nfl#ixzz0yZxIkURr

the Texans would like to sign Jeramiah Johnson and Steve Maneri to their practice squad


and they signed Ward
 
Here is a pretty good outline of the Waivers process, from Arrowhead Pride

What's the waiver wire you ask? It's the way that the NFL manages released players who have four or less accrued seasons in the league.

Once players are cut by a team, they are eligible to be signed first by the team with the worst record in the previous season (in this case the Lions), then the second worst and so on until you get to the best NFL team. So if a player is cut and the Lions don't put a waiver out on him, he's eligible to be signed by the Rams and then the Chiefs and so on. Of course, the team that signs him can't go over the 53-man roster limit so they may have to make cuts as well to make room.

If a waived player is picked up by a team and then released again, he goes through the waiver wire process all over again.

Only players with four or fewer accrued NFL seasons enter the waiver wire. Here is the definition of an accrued season: 6 or more regular-season games in one season in which a player is on the 53-man protected roster, IR list or PUP list.

Players who have completed more than four accrued seasons automatically become free agents if they are let go at this point in the season.

This waiver wire order is reset on September 28th to reflect the current worst win/loss records in the league.

So expect some player movement by the Kansas City Chief after the cuts this weekend. We'll see guys who seemingly "make the squad" get released only days later.

Keep in mind that in addition to the 53-man roster which we'll find out about today, the Chiefs have 8 spots on their practice squad that they can assign by noon tomorrow. Here's more info on which players are eligible for that:

The practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than two previous seasons on a Practice Squad: (i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and (ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s).
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How Does the NFL Waiver Wire System Work?
 
Also from Arrowhead Pride on Practice Sqaud

NFL Practice Squad Eligibility

Once September 4th passes, NFL teams will have the the option of placing 8 players on a practice only team. These players do not count towards the 53-man roster and are generally made up of college free agents and other borderline NFL players.

Since 2004, the NFL has had an international player practice squad spot for rotating teams. It allowed one non-US or non-Canadian born player to take up a ninth practice squad spot. They didn't do it last year and we're unsure if it's happening again this year.

To makes things easier to explain, players who are eligible for the practice squad:

* Have no prior Accrued Seasons in the NFL (An accrued season is six or more games on the active roster);
* Have one prior Accrued Season in which the player was on the 45-man active roster for no more than 8 games; and,
* Have been on the practice squad with a particular team no more than 2 prior seasons unless the team never had their active roster go below 53 players during the two years the player served on the practice squad. If that is the case, the player is eligible for a third practice squad season.

This is where it gets a bit confusing. A player with an accrued NFL season (6 or more games) isn't eligible for the practice squad but a player who played in fewer than 9 games is still eligible? Yeah, it's a bit confusing.

NFL Practice Squad Minimum Salary

This is pretty straightforward. NFL practice squad players are paid $5,200 a week minimum but teams may choose to pay them more if they'd like. This doesn't usually happen. The players will also get small signing bonuses, usually in the area of a couple thousand bucks.

NFL Practice Squad Rules

There are some important things to know about practice squad players during the NFL regular season so I'm just going to list them:

* Practice squad players are always free agents, meaning any NFL team can sign them away from another team. The catch with this? A team can't sign a player one week before they play that team and the team that signs a practice squad player must count that player against their 53-man active roster for at least three weeks, bye weeks included. This is even if the player is released after one week - they still count as a spot on the roster.
* Players that are promoted internally from the practice squad to the active roster must remain there for three weeks and get paid the minimum salary for their status (rookie or veteran). If they are let go for some reason before the three weeks are up, they are still paid for those three full weeks.
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NFL Practice Squad Explained: Rules, Salary And Player Eligibility
 
I'd like to see these guys on the PS:

QB John David Booty
FB Jack Corcoran
TE Derek Fine
CB Mark Parson
DT Malcolm Sheppard
WR Bobby X. Williams
S Torri Williams
LB Isiah Greenhouse
 
Rey said:
I'd like to see these guys on the PS:

QB John David Booty
FB Jack Corcoran
TE Derek Fine
CB Mark Parson
DT Malcolm Sheppard
WR Bobby X. Williams
S Torri Williams
LB Isiah Greenhouse
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I'd be happy with most of that but I expect to see Manieri or Pemberton on there. And we HAVE to put Jeremiah Johnson on there.
 
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