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To all the "Bob McNair is cheap" people...

C

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Now that it is apparent that Andre Johnson was unhappy with his contract (and if you ask me, he must've been for quite some time, because the Texans didn't look too shocked to not see him at the facility and it seems they already have something on the table), could it be a possibility that the real reason why we weren't able to be so aggressive this offseason is because the Texans now have to sign the best receiver in the league......and a guy who they thought they didn't have to worry about for a few more years. :rolleyes:

It's just something I'm throwing out there, but it makes sense. If this was a offseason where DeMeco was a RFA and Andre Johnson was also a RFA (which it seems like that's how the FO is going to treat him, instead of making him honor atleast another year of his contract) would you be upset if McNair locked up (a relative term with Andre :rolleyes:) his best offensive player and arguably his best defense player in one offseason?

And better yet......did Andre possibly put himself before his team and possibly restrict what they were able to do this offseason. I think so.
 
I'll add another observation that I posted about last year. They were dealing with Dunta, Ryans, and a healthy Daniels. I pointed out that Smith's inability to (or choice not to) get any of those contracts resolved was pushing a major bow wave of contract work forward, especially if other players such as Andre started making noise.

Good thing Daniels got hurt or this would be an even messier off-season. ;)
 
Runner said:
Good thing Daniels got hurt or this would be an even messier off-season. ;)
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OD is no AJ, never was. Besides any real opportunity he had to get paid
was wasted by him/his agent last year when he was still healthy and coming off of his best season. Now with another TE in the fold in the person of fellow Badger & 4th round pick Graham Garrett, OD has probably passed and missed his big payday.
 
JMO but I'm not sure how they could predict the Andre deal. Yeah it was team friendly but he had 5 years left on it and there was no guarantee last how he was going to play or how good the offense was going to be. So that is guess work for a guy with alot of years left on a current contract.

I'm not a "Bob is Cheap" guy by the way. Just wanted to pipe in about AJs contract.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Now that it is apparent that Andre Johnson was unhappy with his contract (and if you ask me, he must've been for quite some time, because the Texans didn't look too shocked to not see him at the facility and it seems they already have something on the table), could it be a possibility that the real reason why we weren't able to be so aggressive this offseason is because the Texans now have to sign the best receiver in the league......and a guy who they thought they didn't have to worry about for a few more years. :rolleyes:

It's just something I'm throwing out there, but it makes sense. If this was a offseason where DeMeco was a RFA and Andre Johnson was also a RFA (which it seems like that's how the FO is going to treat him, instead of making him honor atleast another year of his contract) would you be upset if McNair locked up (a relative term with Andre :rolleyes:) his best offensive player and arguably his best defense player in one offseason?

And better yet......did Andre possibly put himself before his team and possibly restrict what they were able to do this offseason. I think so.
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Very well put. I agree almost 100% on all counts.

Andre deserves more than he is making. HOWEVER if he truly wants to go to the Playoffs/Superbowl then the Texans need money to spread around. When you lock up 20% of your cap space on one player, it makes it hard to build a solid team of 22 starters and 22 serviceable back ups.

I thought when AJ signed the deal he did a couple of years back he did so because he understood this concept. Some people say AJ has dropped a peg in thier book, and maybe AJ has dropped a little in my book, but I'm fighting that temptation until I see all the details and he contract that follows.

As I said AJ is the best in the NFL period, and thuis deserves to be paid like the best, however that doesn't put the Texans in the best position to succeed. One of the things that makes AJ even better than the best has been his team first attitude, maybe life and the NFL has worn some of that polish off of him.

My biggest compaint with these deals is well "Kellen Winslow got this, and Brandon Marshall got that", well guess what those teams are run by suckers, because Brandon Marshall has gotten shut out of as many games as he has dominated, and hell he cried like a little girl because a CB had his way with him in one of those games. Also Winslow is not even in the top 10 TE's in the FL IMHO, but he's the top paid TE, ridiculous. A bad decision by one front office shouldn't change the way the game works. Just because some ***** paid $5000 above sticker on an F-150 at the dealership before I got there doesn't mean I'm walking out for anything over $500 invoice......... Know what I'm saying?
 
Runner said:
I'll add another observation that I posted about last year. They were dealing with Dunta, Ryans, and a healthy Daniels. I pointed out that Smith's inability to (or choice not to) get any of those contracts resolved was pushing a major bow wave of contract work forward, especially if other players such as Andre started making noise.

Good thing Daniels got hurt or this would be an even messier off-season. ;)
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Along thse lines, if #90 was making 20 sacks a season we'd be in real deep crap........
 
They don't need to give him a whole new contract, but he deserves to have them shift a little bit of that money to guaranteed money.
 
Big Lou said:
One of the things that makes AJ even better than the best has been his team first attitude, maybe life and the NFL has worn some of that polish off of him.
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The continued mediocrity may be wearing him down too. There's no guarantee he perceives the Texans "growth" each year as the great success some do.

===========

I think it's simpler than all that though. He saw an opportunity to make more money and took it. It's the American way; there may be no real need to do a psychological profile to figure out the "why".
 
Runner said:
I think it's simpler than all that though. He saw an opportunity to make more money and took it. It's the American way; there may be no real need to do a psychological profile to figure out the "why".
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Yeah, since when is the opportunity to make another $10+ million not motivation enough?
 
Andre is looking out for the Team the coaches and you Bozos who cannot leave anything alone in the off season
 
Andre is mad because he signed the deal with the belief and the promise that it would allow the Texans to improve the team around Andre. That they would have more money to spend in Free Agency to address their holes.

Well with this offseason's failure to do anything of merit to bring in new players, it probably got Andre a little pissed and he felt that he was taken advantage of and that the Texans haven't done everything they can to improve.

We all know that AJ is starved to be on a winner and if anyone actually thinks this was a good offseason is living in a world of delusion. AJ obviously doesn't feel this was a very good offseason.

Building through the draft is important but failing to do anythin in FA and then painting yourself in a corner in the draft because of it, is not a recipe for success.

McNair was cheap this offseason and it had nothing to do with AJ's contract. It had to do with profit margins and the fact that he is one of the owner's crying for a bailout and rollbacks in the CBA. That argument doesn't hold much water if he goes out and spends money on Free Agents and improving his squad.

Don't get me wrong, AJ needs to honor his contract....but the Texans need to honor their side of the bargain and use the hometown discount they got to improve the team...and they haven't done squat to improve this team this offseason. Probably the worst offseason since they decided to give Carr the maximum extension.

I respect everyone's opinion but to act like McNair is being cheap so he can reward AJ is true delusion imho. Back away from the bong and back away from the kool aid. They were inactive in FA because they didn't want to spend the money....In an uncapped year, there are no other excuses. No salary cap excuse. No dead money excuse. No excuses.

This was a bad offseason. No doubt. Championships aren't won in offseason but this surely wasn't a championship level offseason. This was a money grab offseason that has just gotten worse week-by-week.

Here is to hoping that things turn out better than they currently look.
*takes a rip off the battle red bong*

*cough* Go Texans!! *cough*
 
Darren Sharper used Jax like Leigh Bodden used us..... neither were going anywhere.

I am just not sure what moves the Texans were supposed to make when heading into a free agency period that was pretty much understood there was very little to be had.

He got the deals done he needed to internally, and will handle this AJ deal appropriately as well.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Knew it wouldn't be long. :rolleyes:
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Second Honeymoon said:
Andre is mad because he signed the deal with the belief and the promise that it would allow the Texans to improve the team around Andre. That they would have more money to spend in Free Agency to address their holes.

Well with this offseason's failure to do anything of merit to bring in new players, it probably got Andre a little pissed and he felt that he was taken advantage of and that the Texans haven't done everything they can to improve.

We all know that AJ is starved to be on a winner and if anyone actually thinks this was a good offseason is living in a world of delusion. AJ obviously doesn't feel this was a very good offseason.

Building through the draft is important but failing to do anythin in FA and then painting yourself in a corner in the draft because of it, is not a recipe for success.

McNair was cheap this offseason and it had nothing to do with AJ's contract. It had to do with profit margins and the fact that he is one of the owner's crying for a bailout and rollbacks in the CBA. That argument doesn't hold much water if he goes out and spends money on Free Agents and improving his squad.

Don't get me wrong, AJ needs to honor his contract....but the Texans need to honor their side of the bargain and use the hometown discount they got to improve the team...and they haven't done squat to improve this team this offseason. Probably the worst offseason since they decided to give Carr the maximum extension.

I respect everyone's opinion but to act like McNair is being cheap so he can reward AJ is true delusion imho. Back away from the bong and back away from the kool aid. They were inactive in FA because they didn't want to spend the money....In an uncapped year, there are no other excuses. No salary cap excuse. No dead money excuse. No excuses.

This was a bad offseason. No doubt. Championships aren't won in offseason but this surely wasn't a championship level offseason. This was a money grab offseason that has just gotten worse week-by-week.

Here is to hoping that things turn out better than they currently look.
*takes a rip off the battle red bong*

*cough* Go Texans!! *cough*
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But...but...that can't be true! Bob McNair brought professional football back to Houston! He invested his money without even knowing that he'd get the franchise established! Etc., etc....

I hadn't thought about the angle you just presented. Andre Johnson sees the ownership saving money, failing to lock up an extra RB (no evidence of us even pursuing one of the free agent RBs) and an extra starting CB (Bodden). So AJ rationalizes: "OK. Alright. I see you. Then give me the chunk of change you're saving, Bob. Pay me."

Truth? Maybe, maybe not. Plausible? Yes.
 
The media is not talking about Cushing this week because of AJ not showing up to OTAs.

Convenient coincidence? :whistle:

The Texans could have played hard ball and I have no doubt that AJ would have showed up for TC, pre-season, and the regular season. However, this is a goodwill gesture on the part of the front office, and there is nothing wrong with making our sole superstar happy with his contract and the team's attitude toward his overall happiness.

It's just business, and customers/fans getting whiny about it shows that some just take things a bit too personal.
 
Double Barrel said:
The media is not talking about Cushing this week because of AJ not showing up to OTAs.

Convenient coincidence? :whistle:

The Texans could have played hard ball and I have no doubt that AJ would have showed up for TC, pre-season, and the regular season. However, this is a goodwill gesture on the part of the front office, and there is nothing wrong with making our sole superstar happy with his contract and the team's attitude toward his overall happiness.

It's just business, and customers/fans getting whiny about it shows that some just take things a bit too personal.
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I wouldn't take it so personally if Bob weren't so cheap... :cool:



:sarcasm:
 
I do believe the "hometown discount went to nothing" isn't that far fetched. However, I don't think misconstruing Smith's unwillingness to overpay FA's this year should translate to "Bob is the Buccaneers (Notoriously cheap franchise)".

What I think is funny is people calling AJ selfish and a diva because he missed 2 days of voluntary drills. Okay guys.
 
Texan_Bill said:
It was such a rich Free Agent class this year too.... :gun:


Dunta Robinson was one of the best FA prospects on the market??? :spit: Yeah, let's go blowing money in that FA market.... :rolleyes:
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Yeah, but to some, it doesn't matter. We didn't break the bank for Peppers. Trade for Fat Al. Offer Bodden unGodly money to choose Houston over NE. Etc, etc, etc.....Those are the kind of things they want us to do.

Broken record, yes?
 
HOU-TEX said:
Yeah, but to some, it doesn't matter. We didn't break the bank for Peppers. Trade for Fat Al. Offer Bodden unGodly money to choose Houston over NE. Etc, etc, etc.....Those are the kind of things they want us to do.

Broken record, yes?
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pete_burns_spinning_you_right_round.jpg


You spin me right round, baby, right round
like a record baby, right round round round.
You spin me right round, baby, right round
like a record baby, right round round round.


:fingergun:
 
Texan_Bill said:
I wouldn't take it so personally if Bob weren't so cheap... :cool:



:sarcasm:
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No shiite. I'm cracking up at all the customers...errr...fans "losing respect" for either Bob McNair or AJ over business.

You'd think either one of these dudes kicked their puppy or something. We're talking about two of the classiest individuals, both as an owner and superstar athlete, that this town has ever seen. Bum and Earl kind of class, y'know?

What they need is some nice tasty cheese go to go with the big glass of whine they they are pouring out.

cheese-and-wine.jpg


oh yeah:

:sarcasm:
 
I don't think it's an impossible theory that AJ saw the savings McNair is raking in by not spending on other free agents, so he's angling to get more himself.

This is a business. If he sees a chance to scare Bob into giving him some more money, then why wouldn't it cross his mind? It's possible.

You guys are always saying this is about business. Well, from a business perspective, it makes sense to see the extra coin laying around and to figure there's a chance at getting some more.

Look at the precedent that McNair has set:

1. Paid Carr $8 million on a whim to see if he could stick around.

2. Paid Dunta $10 million on a whim to see if we could get more out of him.

Why wouldn't AJ look at that, and think "Gee, Mr. McNair might not spend the bank on guys NOT on our team...but he sure doesn't mind ponying up the cash for CURRENT players. Hmmm......"

Not a bad "business" tactic when I stop and think about it this way. Pretty savvy, if this is the motive as SH has theorized. Sometimes you guys dismiss an idea way too early, due to who the poster is.
 
GP said:
I don't think it's an impossible theory that AJ saw the savings McNair is raking in by not spending on other free agents, so he's angling to get more himself.

This is a business. If he sees a chance to scare Bob into giving him some more money, then why wouldn't it cross his mind? It's possible.

You guys are always saying this is about business. Well, from a business perspective, it makes sense to see the extra coin laying around and to figure there's a chance at getting some more.

Look at the precedent that McNair has set:

1. Paid Carr $8 million on a whim to see if he could stick around.

2. Paid Dunta $10 million on a whim to see if we could get more out of him.

Why wouldn't AJ look at that, and think "Gee, Mr. McNair might not spend the bank on guys NOT on our team...but he sure doesn't mind ponying up the cash for CURRENT players. Hmmm......"

Not a bad "business" tactic when I stop and think about it this way. Pretty savvy, if this is the motive as SH has theorized. Sometimes you guys dismiss an idea way too early, due to who the poster is.
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I think the overall point is right that AJ might feel as though the discount he gave the Texans is being pissed away. I'd just see it as more of an AJ vs Rick Smith deal and not him hating Bob McNair.
 
Big Lou said:
Along thse lines, if #90 was making 20 sacks a season we'd be in real deep crap........
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if he was getting 20 sacks and being a dominant force more often we would have already got Mario a new deal. Problem is that he's already been earning top dollar since day one. Tough to beat a #1 overall pick contract

we could still franchise him and get another year

Mario will be one of the highest profile potential free agents with a new CBA
it will be very interesting
 
Texan_Bill said:
It was so typical, no? I almost imagined it before I read it....
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That wasn't your imagination, it was logic and truth rearing it's ugly head

you think is happy with this offseason?
Trust me, he isn't. He needs to shut up and play football but can see his point

it may be just about money but I will give AJ a little credit

go texans in 2010
 
Second Honeymoon said:
That wasn't your imagination, it was logic and truth rearing it's ugly head

you think is happy with this offseason?
Trust me, he isn't. He needs to shut up and play football but can see his point

it may be just about money but I will give AJ a little credit

go texans in 2010
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:rolleyes: No sir, that was YOUR logic and supposed truth.

Trust you? Why? Why would ever trust you?

Andre Johnson will be a Texan for a long time. Will he retire a Texan?? I'm not so sure about that, see Jerry Rice.
 
Texan_Bill said:
:rolleyes: No sir, that was YOUR logic and supposed truth.

Trust you? Why? Why would ever trust you?

Andre Johnson will be a Texan for a long time. Will he retire a Texan?? I'm not so sure about that, see Jerry Rice.
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Not to mention that all Bob McNair has done is keep the Texans near the top of the highest payrolls in the league.

The "Bob McNair is cheap" mantra is a joke. He may be stupid in his spending or misguided.........but he's NOT CHEAP. The guy spends money like nobody's business. Sometimes in the wrong places...I'll give folks that, but he spends money non the less.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Andre is mad because he signed the deal with the belief and the promise that it would allow the Texans to improve the team around Andre. That they would have more money to spend in Free Agency to address their holes.

Well with this offseason's failure to do anything of merit to bring in new players, it probably got Andre a little pissed and he felt that he was taken advantage of and that the Texans haven't done everything they can to improve.

We all know that AJ is starved to be on a winner and if anyone actually thinks this was a good offseason is living in a world of delusion. AJ obviously doesn't feel this was a very good offseason.
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I was actually getting behind your post, until I saw the line in red there. I think it is obvious you think it's obvious to AJ, but I don't believe we can say it was obvious to AJ. Obviously.

Your speculation is definitely plausible, and given what Uncle Melton said earlier in the season, about play-offs or bust... you may actually be right.

If that is the case, what could Uncle Bob have said in the office yesterday, to make Andre want to come back? Like you said, there isn't much about this offseason to make you think we would be better in 2010. All McNair has to offer him, is money... so that makes me think it was all about the money.

IMHO, his $15 million bonus was just a re-structure of the final years of his rookie deal (thanks Carr-Bomb for helping me see that) so he never really had that second "pay-day" a player normally gets when they've performed well over the course of their rookie contract. Fitzgerald's is more along those lines. Restructure of the last years on his rookie deal, plus guaranteed money off the second deal.

I would bet they were going to restructure it anyway, about this time. Like you said, we didn't do much this offseason, Bob probably had to promise to make him the highest paid athlete in the NFL... what else has he got?
 
AJ just wants to know he has a chance to win a championship
obvious may be a bit presumptuous
I don't think he feels that sense of urgency to win a championship right now
just sayin
 
Second Honeymoon said:
AJ just wants to know he has a chance to win a championship
obvious may be a bit presumptuous
I don't think he feels that sense of urgency to win a championship right now
just sayin
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Assuming you are correct (& I've already stated you may very well be) what could McNair have said to him to get him to come back to camp, with the attitude he has?
 
thunderkyss said:
Assuming you are correct (& I've already stated you may very well be) what could McNair have said to him to get him to come back to camp, with the attitude he has?
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Bob McNair: "Andre, this story is bad publicity, and the marketing department's research analysis has noticed a 0.59% metacritic drop in public perception of my franchise. Now we both know that you still have five years left on your contract, so we can do this the nice way, or, we can do this the hard way. Why don't you show up to this week's last OTA, wave and smile at the cameras, get yourself a real agent, and we can work something out. We've already ordered the 3D drink cups for the 2010 season, so you need to continue to be the face of the franchise. I'll talk to Rick and we can spin this to make both of us look like peaches. I'll take care of you, Andre, but you've got to take care of the franchise."

fly_footer.jpg
<---fly on the wall
 
Double Barrel said:
Bob McNair: "Andre, this story is bad publicity, and the marketing department's research analysis has noticed a 0.59% metacritic drop in public perception of my franchise. Now we both know that you still have five years left on your contract, so we can do this the nice way, or, we can do this the hard way. Why don't you show up to this week's last OTA, wave and smile at the cameras, get yourself a real agent, and we can work something out. We've already ordered the 3D drink cups for the 2010 season, so you need to continue to be the face of the franchise. I'll talk to Rick and we can spin this to make both of us look like peaches. I'll take care of you, Andre, but you've got to take care of the franchise."

fly_footer.jpg
<---fly on the wall
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Bob may be cheap, but apparently he's also a bad-ass.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
AJ just wants to know he has a chance to win a championship
obvious may be a bit presumptuous
I don't think he feels that sense of urgency to win a championship right now
just sayin
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LOL, why do you keep saying "AJ wants to Know" or "this is how AJ feels"...like you know what the heck the guy is thinking and you talk to him everyday.

You don't know what the heck AJ knows or thinks, so stop trying to form arguments around what you think Andre is thinking or what you think how Andre is feeling.

Seriously, it's why this whole argument was thrown out the window
Second Honeymoon said:
Andre is mad because he signed the deal with the belief and the promise that it would allow the Texans to improve the team around Andre..........
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I didn't even make it past the first sentence. You don't know Andre and you don't know what Andre is mad about. You "think" you do, but thinking is not knowing. Really the only thing you're doing now is putting words in Dre's mouth to push along your "Bob is cheap" agenda. :rolleyes:
 
Double Barrel said:
Bob McNair: "...I'll talk to Rick and we can spin this to make both of us look like peaches. I'll take care of you, Andre, but you've got to take care of the franchise."

fly_footer.jpg
<---fly on the wall
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Except that makes it look like the issue was money, and not

Second Honeymoon said:
AJ just wants to know he has a chance to win a championship
obvious may be a bit presumptuous
I don't think he feels that sense of urgency to win a championship right now
just sayin
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:kitten:
 
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