McNair and uncapped season

[badboy]

McNair was a leader in pushing for an uncapped year next season and I anticipate him opening his check book in free agency. What about the draft? If cap is not an issue, would it be a good deal to trade to get more picks this next draft? I have us selecting in the #15 spot which should get us another solid player. How about buying another top 12 or so pick with trade using some of our picks this year and first and second rounds the following year? If Kubes is back, there will be a lot of pressure on him to go after game changers.

 

[nero THE zero]

McNair was a leader in pushing for an uncapped year next season

Says who?

 

[GP]

This franchise will NEVER explore the avenues of "opening up the checkbook" as has been claimed for the past 7 years.

I've been hearing that McNair will open up his wallet every off-season, especially after we got rid of the Casserly-era dead money.

Posters galore were on here jumping for joy and imagining all sorts of HUGE deals we would pull off. The belief that mcNair will open his wallet ranks up there with Bigfoot sightings, IMO. Sounds cool, but it's not happening.

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

I see we're already starting the Keep Hope Alive tour around here.

 

[Mr. White]

This franchise will NEVER explore the avenues of "opening up the checkbook" as has been claimed for the past 7 years.

I've been hearing that McNair will open up his wallet every off-season, especially after we got rid of the Casserly-era dead money.

Posters galore were on here jumping for joy and imagining all sorts of HUGE deals we would pull off. The belief that mcNair will open his wallet ranks up there with Bigfoot sightings, IMO. Sounds cool, but it's not happening.

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

I see we're already starting the Keep Hope Alive tour around here.

Well said. Like I've said before, there's no evidence that McNair will spend the money that it's gonna take to put a winner on the field.

History shows that he'd rather protect a profit.

 

[J_R]

So they can go spend 9 mil on a 3rd string QB, or overpay for another DE?

(That is also why you wont see a new coach in. McNair reportedly isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach. Say 10 mil, which is reportedly what a guy like Cowher wants. I assume guys like Shanahan,etc arent far behind)

 

[nero THE zero]

McNair reportedly isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach.

Reported by who?

 

[Stemp]

Reported by who?

Reported by people with no inside knowledge but like to speculate anyway.

 

[J_R]

You're right, I have no inside knowledge but has been said many times by McClain, Justice, and Zierlein - guys who do have inside knowledge.

I'll look to see if I can provide any links/stories. Until then, dont believe me.


Some might be disappointed that Cowher doesnt come here, and many will be disappointed that Kubiak may be back after all(even if they do go 7-9,8-8)

I don't care if the new guy is Bill Cowher, Brian Billick, or Jesus Christ himself (and to be clear, it won't be any of them or anyone in the same tax bracket),

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2009/12/fire_kubiak_or_keep_him.php

 

[badboy]

Says who?

In May of 2008 all 32 owners voted to have an uncapped year. McNair had voice owner dissatisfaction with rookie contracts (getting high dollar with no NFL experience). Various sport talking head had interviewed McNair saying he was a supporter of opting out of CBA leading to an uncapped year.

 

[DiehardChris]

I'm still baffled by how people think spending big free agent dollars is a good thing.

The Jets spent a mint a couple of years ago - they've been around .500. The Redskins go apeshit every offseason in free agency, and they're one of the worst teams in the league. So many people wanted the Texans to go after Albert Haynesworth - and myself and many others KNEW that fat turd wasn't worth even half of what they paid for him. That's not hindsight, either.

Last year the Texans brought in a high-priced free agent - Antonio Smith - and after a slow start, he's been very, very good.

 

[badboy]

This franchise will NEVER explore the avenues of "opening up the checkbook" as has been claimed for the past 7 years.

I've been hearing that McNair will open up his wallet every off-season, especially after we got rid of the Casserly-era dead money.

Posters galore were on here jumping for joy and imagining all sorts of HUGE deals we would pull off. The belief that mcNair will open his wallet ranks up there with Bigfoot sightings, IMO. Sounds cool, but it's not happening.

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

I see we're already starting the Keep Hope Alive tour around here.

I think McNair has open the check book with guys like Boselli, David Carr's extension, Antonio Smith, Kris Brown, Orslovski, Reeves and Schaub.

 

[nero THE zero]

You're right, I have no inside knowledge but has been said many times by McClain, Justice, and Zierlein - guys who do have inside knowledge.

I'll look to see if I can provide any links/stories. Until then, dont believe me.


Some might be disappointed that Cowher doesnt come here, and many will be disappointed that Kubiak may be back after all(even if they do go 7-9,8-8)

There's a difference between "Cowher won't be coming here" and a blanket statement like "McNair isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach"

 

[nero THE zero]

In May of 2008 all 32 owners voted to have an uncapped year. McNair had voice owner dissatisfaction with rookie contracts (getting high dollar with no NFL experience). Various sport talking head had interviewed McNair saying he was a supporter of opting out of CBA leading to an uncapped year.

Guess I missed that. I still don't see how that makes him a "leader" on the issue, though.

 

[badboy]

I'm still baffled by how people think spending big free agent dollars is a good thing.

The Jets spent a mint a couple of years ago - they've been around .500. The Redskins go apeshit every offseason in free agency, and they're one of the worst teams in the league. So many people wanted the Texans to go after Albert Haynesworth - and myself and many others KNEW that fat turd wasn't worth even half of what they paid for him. That's not hindsight, either.

Last year the Texans brought in a high-priced free agent - Antonio Smith - and after a slow start, he's been very, very good.

Supports my point that McNair will spend money even if it has not bee very effective. We hear that the way to build a team is throguh the draft. If a cap is not involved why not get another high first and go get two impacy players this year?

 

[badboy]

Guess I missed that. I still don't see how that makes him a "leader" on the issue, though.

Would it improve your day if I retracted "leader"? The issue is about going after more picks without the cost effecting the bottom line as it would in a normal year.

 

[J_R]

There's a difference between "Cowher won't be coming here" and a blanket statement like "McNair isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach"

Edited last post - but you think McNair is going to eat ~10 mil for Kubiak and Smith and then go pay Cowher 10 mil to be GM/HC?

 

[nero THE zero]

Would it improve your day if I retracted "leader"? The issue is about going after more picks without the cost effecting the bottom line as it would in a normal year.

I actually agree that McNair will/should open up his checkbook should the CBA fail. He's a "have" in the league.

People just tend to take baseless comments on here and run with them as if they're fact. So, I wanted to nip that in the bud.

 

[nero THE zero]

Edited last post - but you think McNair is going to eat ~10 mil for Kubiak and Smith and then go pay Cowher 10 mil to be GM/HC?

No, I don't think McNair is going to fire Kubiak.

I also don't think that decision has anything to do with money, which was the whole basis for your argument.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Here we go with the McNair's cheap argument again.

I'll respectfully pass this time around.

 

[J_R]

No, I don't think McNair is going to fire Kubiak.

I also don't think that decision has anything to do with money, which was the whole basis for your argument.

Yes, I still think it is money. He isnt going to pay 10 mil for a coach, then fire Gary and have to eat whatever remains on his contract(and eat possibly Rick Smith's money too) when he feels comfortable with Gary.

But it is what it is. You have your opinion, I have mine.

 

[Mr. White]

There's a difference between "Cowher won't be coming here" and a blanket statement like "McNair isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach"

It's pretty easy to connect the dots, though.

Dot 1: Kubiak has one more year on his contract.
Dot 2: Cowher wants $10 million.

Add to that McNair has no interest in paying a coach that much money. Read through LZ's Twitter page if you want a link. I can't link it because it's blocked at work.

 

[badboy]

I actually agree that McNair will/should open up his checkbook should the CBA fail. He's a "have" in the league.

People just tend to take baseless comments on here and run with them as if they're fact. So, I wanted to nip that in the bud.

But what do you think about trying to get another high first round? Go for say Haden in 10- 13 and Thomas with our 15-17? That would help the defense.

 

[J_R]

It's pretty easy to connect the dots, though.

Dot 1: Kubiak has one more year on his contract.
Dot 2: Cowher wants $10 million.

Add to that McNair has no interest in paying a coach that much money. Read through LZ's Twitter page if you want a link. I can't link it because it's blocked at work.

Thank you for explaining better than I did.

 

[Mr. White]

Thank you for explaining better than I did.

I posted on it a couple of weeks ago.

It makes perfect sense to me. I don't ever expect to see a quote from McNair saying that he won't pay a coach $10 million, so these kind of accounts are as close as we'll get.

 

[GP]

I think McNair has open the check book with guys like Boselli, David Carr's extension, Antonio Smith, Kris Brown, Orslovski, Reeves and Schaub.

That's an amazing list.

(chuckles to self)

 

[GP]

Here we go with the McNair's cheap argument again.

I'll respectfully pass this time around.

Ah yes, I forgot.

"We have the BOLDEST owner in the league!"

"He is dedicated to winning!"

"He brought football back to Houston!"

I think McNair became rich because he found a way to pinch pennies, not for any bold business move that involved sezing a moment.

 

[nero THE zero]

But what do you think about trying to get another high first round? Go for say Haden in 10- 13 and Thomas with our 15-17? That would help the defense.

That'd be great. Don't know how we'd do that with money though.

There's speculation that RFA's will be up for sale for teams willing to pay. For exmaple, assuming a "have-not," like Buffalo, has a 4th year OG that we like a lot, we could offer a tender we're confident Buffalo could/would not match, and scoop him up.

So, that's one way to add some nice, young talent to your team if the sides don't come to an agreement.

 

[TexCanada]

Hopefully we will go after a veteran DT in FA. I'd rather see us bring in the right guy rather than go spend a bunch of money on 3 or 4 new guys.

 

[badboy]

That's an amazing list.

(chuckles to self)

You have trouble focusing on the point? I did not say the players turned out to be successful. I am saying he paid. Don't side track the thread.

 

[badboy]

Hopefully we will go after a veteran DT in FA. I'd rather see us bring in the right guy rather than go spend a bunch of money on 3 or 4 new guys.

I am looking for a DT in FA also. But we have to do better with who we are signing. t least with a FA you have a history; not saying the history will continue in a positive vein.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

Jason Babin says hi.

 

[GP]

You have trouble focusing on the point? I did not say the players turned out to be successful. I am saying he paid. Don't side track the thread.

I'll not side-track the thread when you refrain from speculating, wishing, hoping, praying, being wildly optimistic, and act like the next eight years will be any different than the previous 8.

You're just mad because I don't agree with your opinion.

I apologize for not putting a seal of approval on your idea(s). I was thinking that what you're saying might not be rooted in reality.

And I stand by what I have said: Looks like the Keep Hope Alive! tour has begun and will run from now until the first few games of the 2010 season when Kubiak mismanages games and dusts off the "It's on me" excuses.

 

[GP]

Jason Babin says hi.

I'm talking about moving to the middle or early part of round 1.

The Babin example is weak because he was a serious over-reach because they were afraid he wouldn't be around in the round he was projected for.

Instead, this thread is talking about mortgaging future years' draft picks for the chance to grab two HUGE first round picks in the middle-to-early part of round 1.

Huge difference.

This team's "extreme" chance-taking has been hilarious. Boselli, who was really put upon us by Jax because they needed to shed his salary, and then we have a stupid move-up for Babin (we traded with the Titans for THAT?!?!? LOL) and then Moulds and Ahman Green who were both past their prime and ready for retirement.

Yeah, we're verrrrry bold in the area of opening up that big, fat wallet of Bob's.

Sheesh....

 

[GP]

I think this is one of those "trap" threads where the only way you can survive is if you agree with the originator of the thread.

I'm out of here.

Keep Hope Alive!

 

[Jackie Chiles]

I'm talking about moving to the middle or early part of round 1.

The Babin example is weak because he was a serious over-reach because they were afraid he wouldn't be around in the round he was projected for.

Instead, this thread is talking about mortgaging future years' draft picks for the chance to grab two HUGE first round picks in the middle-to-early part of round 1.

Huge difference.

This team's "extreme" chance-taking has been hilarious. Boselli, who was really put upon us by Jax because they needed to shed his salary, and then we have a stupid move-up for Babin (we traded with the Titans for THAT?!?!? LOL) and then Moulds and Ahman Green who were both past their prime and ready for retirement.

Yeah, we're verrrrry bold in the area of opening up that big, fat wallet of Bob's.

Sheesh....

Hey, I'm not a mind reader, just responded to what you wrote.

 

[Texecutioner]

McNair was a leader in pushing for an uncapped year next season

If this is true, then that is another big strike against Mcnair for me. Making the NFL uncapped will ruin it, and I've been worried about this for a while. If that happens and the NFL gets anywhere close to how the MLB or the NBA is in that regard, I won't be watching or giving a damn about it in a few years once it crawls down that path. The NFL having a salary cap is what has separated it from the NBA and the MLB and made it fair for all teams including those small market teams that can't and won't ever do jack in baseball like the Royals and a few others. If people want to see Jerry Jones and Snyder competing to see who can spend the most money year like Steinbrenner in baseball, then they can have it, but I'll most likely be wiping my hands of my favorite sport and that will suck, but it won't be the same NFL that has existed over this last decade with so much parity and different teams rising and falling from year to year. That is what keeps fans interested and hope alive. I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly, and it's pretty fair for the most part for every franchise to compete equally. If they make it uncapped and keep it that way, the NFL as we know it will get ruined.

 

[Thorn]

If this is true, then that is another big strike against Mcnair for me. Making the NFL uncapped will ruin it, and I've been worried about this for a while. If that happens and the NFL gets anywhere close to how the MLB or the NBA is in that regard, I won't be watching or giving a damn about it in a few years once it crawls down that path. The NFL having a salary cap is what has separated it from the NBA and the MLB and made it fair for all teams including those small market teams that can't and won't ever do jack in baseball like the Royals and a few others. If people want to see Jerry Jones and Snyder competing to see who can spend the most money year like Steinbrenner in baseball, then they can have it, but I'll most likely be wiping my hands of my favorite sport and that will suck, but it won't be the same NFL that has existed over this last decade with so much parity and different teams rising and falling from year to year. That is what keeps fans interested and hope alive. I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly, and it's pretty fair for the most part for every franchise to compete equally. If they make it uncapped and keep it that way, the NFL as we know it will get ruined.

I don't think the NFL would stay uncapped if that happens next year. However, if it does, I agree with what you said. It would ruin the NFL.

 

[Texecutioner]

I'm talking about moving to the middle or early part of round 1.

The Babin example is weak because he was a serious over-reach because they were afraid he wouldn't be around in the round he was projected for.

Instead, this thread is talking about mortgaging future years' draft picks for the chance to grab two HUGE first round picks in the middle-to-early part of round 1.

Huge difference.

This team's "extreme" chance-taking has been hilarious. Boselli, who was really put upon us by Jax because they needed to shed his salary, and then we have a stupid move-up for Babin (we traded with the Titans for THAT?!?!? LOL) and then Moulds and Ahman Green who were both past their prime and ready for retirement.

Yeah, we're verrrrry bold in the area of opening up that big, fat wallet of Bob's.

Sheesh....

It's amazing to me that people still think that Mcnair is going to go all out and open up the wallet in each off season when he's never done it once in the 7 off seasons that he's had.

 

[Texecutioner]

I don't think the NFL would stay uncapped if that happens next year. However, if it does, I agree with what you said. It would ruin the NFL.

I just can't even believe that they would entertain this idea and allow it to be this way for even one season. The NFL has done so well with the model that is currently has. Why in god's name would you tweak that to go down a road that has caused the NBA and the MLB to fail miserably on so many levels of it's competition and run fans away from the sport. Sure the NBA and the MLB are still making money, but bloated salaries and guaranteed contracts have ruined those sports.

 

[infantrycak]

It's amazing to me that people still think that Mcnair is going to go all out and open up the wallet in each off season when he's never done it once in the 7 off seasons that he's had.

What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

 

[Texan_Bill]

I think McNair became rich because he found a way to pinch pennies, not for any bold business move that involved sezing a moment.

Really??!?! Selling Cogen Technologies for $1.5 billion dollars in cash and stocks to Enron, right before the industry bubble started to collapse wasn't a bold business move??? Please.

 

[badboy]

Hey, I'm not a mind reader, just responded to what you wrote.

GP gets caught up in his opinion and attacks those who say "what if". He will make statements saying a owner will not do something despite facts showing McNair did pay for players. He is mad at Kubiac and if McNair keeps the coach GP will then be mad at McNair.

 

[GP]

What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

IIRC, they paid DD when he was heading into his final off-season and looking VERY much like he was done. How smart was that? What owner signs off on the GM who wants to do that?

The vast majority of posters here, when talk began about possibly signing Todd Wade, were easily uncomfortable with the thought of spending THAT mcuh for THAT guy. It came across as a huge reach. And it was.

Gary walker might be one of the best signings when lined up against the other signings.

And to me, the only other good wheelin'-and-dealin' situation was dropping Carr and getting Schaub. Though I do wonder what we could have done with those two 2nd rounders. Schaub is an enigma to me, due to having great stats, but also trailing off on the "comeback win" category that he did an OK job of in 2008.

Throw in the Ahman Green LAUGHER of a signing, and I can't help but wonder how much blind luck this franchise is going to have to be blessed with in order to turn that magical corner we all speak of so much.

But hey: Nobody can fire the owner. It's something we just deal with.

 

[nero THE zero]

What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

There's a funky line of thought here that; spending big in FA creates success, the Texans have not had success, thereofre the Texans do not spend big in FA.

Despite the fallacy in such logic, the original premise is flawed anyway. I remember four years ago, and as early as last year, when the "build through the draft" paradigm was held to such high esteem. This inability to "get over the hump" has had an odd effect on that.

 

[badboy]

If this is true, then that is another big strike against Mcnair for me. Making the NFL uncapped will ruin it, and I've been worried about this for a while. If that happens and the NFL gets anywhere close to how the MLB or the NBA is in that regard, I won't be watching or giving a damn about it in a few years once it crawls down that path. The NFL having a salary cap is what has separated it from the NBA and the MLB and made it fair for all teams including those small market teams that can't and won't ever do jack in baseball like the Royals and a few others. If people want to see Jerry Jones and Snyder competing to see who can spend the most money year like Steinbrenner in baseball, then they can have it, but I'll most likely be wiping my hands of my favorite sport and that will suck, but it won't be the same NFL that has existed over this last decade with so much parity and different teams rising and falling from year to year. That is what keeps fans interested and hope alive. I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly, and it's pretty fair for the most part for every franchise to compete equally. If they make it uncapped and keep it that way, the NFL as we know it will get ruined.

My understanding is the vote to opt out of CBA was to put pressure on players Union to change the rookie salary, reduce the percentage of the profit the players get and to put pressure on owners that complain about being in a small market and still wanting a equal share of the profit pie. Historically, I think McNair has indicated the Buffalo owner as such.

I believe the uncapped year will be the only one and McNair could use his money to go after certain players if the cap was gone. No way do the NFL owners kill the cash cow and eliminate the cap forever. It is simplay an attention grabber. Already the new president of the union has mentioned he is open to movement on the rookie wage, I believe.

 

[DeMarCushPoll]

I can't beleive I actually wasted my time reading all these ignorant posts. People commenting on this subject as if you sit down and have dinner with the man every night and have some inside knowledge. Not one of you have any idea what McNair will or will not do with his check book next year or any other year. What a ridiculous thread.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

No team is just going to sell their first round pick for cash.








/End thread

 

[mussop]

My understanding is the vote to opt out of CBA was to put pressure on players Union to change the rookie salary, reduce the percentage of the profit the players get and to put pressure on owners that complain about being in a small market and still wanting a equal share of the profit pie. Historically, I think McNair has indicated the Buffalo owner as such.

I believe the uncapped year will be the only one and McNair could use his money to go after certain players if the cap was gone. No way do the NFL owners kill the cash cow and eliminate the cap forever. It is simplay an attention grabber. Already the new president of the union has mentioned he is open to movement on the rookie wage, I believe.

You beat me to it.

 

[badboy]

It's amazing to me that people still think that Mcnair is going to go all out and open up the wallet in each off season when he's never done it once in the 7 off seasons that he's had.

Each of those 7 off seasons he had a salary cap to work under. Not this year. Also, his first GM left the team snarky with contracts leaving dead money when the player was released. This off season is probably a once in a life time chance to go get who you want and not have the salary whack you later.

 

[badboy]

What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

My point entirely. Facts do tend to get in some folks way. Cak would you spend the money and picks to move up this one draft? I'm not saying it should be done but for me it was an interesting idea due to lack of cap. We should get some excellent players using our current picks but if Kubes is here next season, he might want another impact player in first round.