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What do we do about Rick Smith?

dalemurphy

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Assuming a coaching change is imminent, what do we do with Rick Smith?

Let Rick Smith handle the coaching search?- Get to keep him as GM... however, that will eliminate some of the top choices like Cowher, Gruden, etc... I guess Shanahan would still be in play and possibly a guy like Greg Williams.

McNair runs an independent search for a head coach and allows his choice to make decisions about the GM, etc...?

McNair hires a new GM, who then brings in his own head coach?
 
This is actually one of the reason that I'm not on the pink soap bandwagon already, the 'fear' of losing Rick Smith if Kubiak leaves too.

I really want Smith to stay, I thing he's VERY good at drafting and getting players from FA. Kubiak, well... I'm so-so right now, he does some really good things, but come gameday, his player selection and playcalling is ignorant, bordering arrogant.
 
I feel ya on that. My pink soap is for Kubiak only, but losing Rick Smith
would probably hurt the team even more. One has done his job, and the
other make dumb decisions and ARROGANTLY refuses to switch it up.
 
I'm on the fence with Rick Smith.

He's good at bringing in guys off the street for the minimum.

Some of his big-name FA signings have been god-awful. His draft results have been hit-and-miss.

It's hard to tell how much of it has been Kubiak and how much has been Smith.
 
Smith is the young African-American GM and face of management that gives McNair the look of a progressive, PC organization that is probably important to the owner.
Did he make the choices, was his input significant in the Draft picks since he's
been here ? If so that's certainly worth something because Cushing and Duane Brown have been productive top picks even though the wisdom of the Okoye choice is obviously dubious. FA acquisions are another story.
If McNair were to replace Kubiak with a non big-name coach, keeping Smith might be the way to go but if he really wants to get a high-profile guy like Cowher then that calibre coach probably wants a dual role of HC-GM meaning
Smiths would be gone.
 
I am assuming that Smith stays simply from the fact that he is signed through 2012.
 
If they keep Rick Smith, I believe they would have to involve a consultant for the coaching hire.

I think they should keep him given the state of the CBA, and his work to date.
 
FWIW, here's what Richard Justice says about the situation.

It seems likely that Bob McNair will soon be looking for another head coach and maybe another general manager. I doubt he has any clue where to start looking. I could be wrong, but he doesn't strike me as an NFL junkie that sits up night studying other organizations and trying to figure out what he could learn from them.

If he asked for advice, I'd tell him to telephone Ernie Accorsi and have him play the role of Dan Reeves in the upcoming evaluation process.

Bob needs to get a good strong general manager in place, preferably a proven general manager, a general manager with skins on the wall. If he has confidence in Rick Smith, so be it.
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Why does everyone like Rick Smith? Other than Cushing and Diles none of his draft picks deserve to be starting. Okoye and Brown may eventually develop, but right now they are not living up to their draft status.
 
Rick Smith does a good job, IMO.

It seems, unless it's being covered up somehow, that he does what he can do and stays out of the way of the coach.

It seems that he scrutinizes contracts and doesn't give away the farm, thus keeping us from being plunged into cap hell.

I don't know if Smith has to go if Kubiak goes. You guys can check my post history on this topic: I've always said that the REAL "keeper" from the Kubiak era will be Rick Smith, that he NEEDS to stay aboard even if Kubiak gets let go. I think he does his job pretty well, in spite of everything he inherited from Casserly.

Gurry Kubiak is doomed. The Jacksonville game was even worse than the previous three losses, IMO. It was damning of Kubiak's gameday management. It was arrogance in the red zone, trying to be "cute" instead of going with our bread-and-butter (AJ and two WRs who are good "possession" type receivers). In a red zone situation, you toss it to AJ or your two possession-type WRs who just thrive on short routes.

Plus, how this coaching staff didn't know that MJD would run the ball over and over and over and over again, at end of game, is beyond me. We should have stuffed the run, we'd have gotten the ball back, and we might would have scored a TD unless Chris Brown was the one who had the shot at the TD.
 
Kubiak has been mediocre and it's time to go. Rick Smith has also been mediocre and I would not be crushed if he was fired too.
 
Mr. White said:
FWIW, here's what Richard Justice says about the situation.
Click to expand...

I more than normal, I would ignore anything that Justice says about Rick Smith. Previous blogs/columns from him indicate Justice he has some personal/professional issue with Smith.
 
Goatcheese said:
Why does everyone like Rick Smith? Other than Cushing and Diles none of his draft picks deserve to be starting. Okoye and Brown may eventually develop, but right now they are not living up to their draft status.
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Jacoby Jones
Zac Diles
Kasey Studdard
Duane Brown
Steve Slaton
Cushing
Barwin
G. Quin
James Casey

all appear to be good draft picks... Okoye isn't exactly a horrible miss. There are very few misses (Bennett, Adibi?, Molden?) But, more impressive than his drafts, are his FAs, particularly the ones he's found under the rocks:

Dressen
Briesel
E. Wilson
Pollard
Reeves
Antonio Smith
C Myers
M. Schaub (trade)
Deljuan Robinson
Bulman
Kevin Walter (trade)
Andre Davis
Rashod Butler
Ryan Moats
Shaun Cody
 
Rick Smith has done pretty decent especially in the 1st round and the coaching staff had some say in those picks as well and lets not talk about the coaching on the field as that has been horrible. Kubiak is gone for sure and Rick Smith could be back in the fold and if so Shanahan is the #1 choice.
 
GP said:
Plus, how this coaching staff didn't know that MJD would run the ball over and over and over and over again, at end of game, is beyond me. We should have stuffed the run, we'd have gotten the ball back, and we might would have scored a TD unless Chris Brown was the one who had the shot at the TD.
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Everyone watching the game knew that was going to happen, but inexplicably the Texans couldn't stop him after doing so all game long. I dunno but the defense appeared fatigued to me ? Maybe our defense was on the field longer than I realized but they were sluggish at the end, got their hands on MJD but couldn't bring him down.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I am assuming that Smith stays simply from the fact that he is signed through 2012.
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I would have to agree. I'm on the fence about Smith. If Kubiak is let go, I can't see one of the Big Name coaches coming in here, and Smith having more power over personnel then the coach. Our drafts and FA have improved, but I don't see Smith getting 100% of all the credit. Also, IMO you don't let Smith do the search and hire for a coach.
 
Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned here....

Demeco and OD should have been re-signed before they hit free agency.

That's on Rick Smith.
 
Mr. White said:
Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned here....

Demeco and OD should have been re-signed before they hit free agency.

That's on Rick Smith.
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Geniusness of Rick Smith! He played hardball instead of letting the players dictate terms. Now, because of the collective bargaining situation, Demeco and OD are looking at 2 more years as RFAs. They will have to agree to a reasonable deal or face not getting a real contract until 2012.
 
dalemurphy said:
Assuming a coaching change is imminent, what do we do with Rick Smith?

Let Rick Smith handle the coaching search?- Get to keep him as GM... however, that will eliminate some of the top choices like Cowher, Gruden, etc... I guess Shanahan would still be in play and possibly a guy like Greg Williams.

McNair runs an independent search for a head coach and allows his choice to make decisions about the GM, etc...?

McNair hires a new GM, who then brings in his own head coach?
Click to expand...


How about a GM and coach who aren't boys....this Kubiak and Rick Smith buddy system doesn't work...
 
Mr. White said:
Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned here....

Demeco and OD should have been re-signed before they hit free agency.

That's on Rick Smith.
Click to expand...

They have not hit free agency yet... nor will they after this season
 
Mr. White said:
FWIW, here's what Richard Justice says about the situation.
Click to expand...

bill gates couldnt pay me to click on a richard justice link, and the first line of that quote is another reason why. is there another team in the nfl that's accumulated more talent in those 3 and a half years? actually, that "3 and a half" is being generous considering casserly being the gm when kubiak started and everyone seems to miss that mike sherman put us another step backwards with his influence (gato, green, flanagan, etc). this is the biggest area that i defend kubiak, and as such rick smith, in that we've done a MONSTROUS job building young talent in an extremely short amount of time.
 
Goatcheese said:
Why does everyone like Rick Smith? Other than Cushing and Diles none of his draft picks deserve to be starting. Okoye and Brown may eventually develop, but right now they are not living up to their draft status.
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I'm with you. The drafts have had some hits but free agency hasn't been stellar. Yeah you will get some guys from the scrap heap that look good at times....Pollard and some others..but that doesn't erase the Ahman Greens or picks like Amobi. Orlovsky seems like an expensive 3rd stringer. Jacques Reeves...not impressed. Obviouuly there are more good and bad.

So with all that said, I don't see overwhelming success or abject failure. So I don't think he is necessarily untouchable.

I'm still amazed that there are so many drinking kool-aid still about talent, the team, coaching, etc. I see no problem with blowing it up. I don't think it is a reach that guys like AJ and others are tired of it and want a new direction. You can tell when they asked AJ about the half-back pass yesterday
 
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Depends on who you blame for our personnel deficiencies:

Did he decide not to pick up a legitimate safety until week 3?

Did he decide not to significantly upgrade the depth on the OL outside of drafting a rookie? Not bringing in competition for Myers?

Did he decide to stand pat at RB, if Slaton has a sophomore slump we're stuck with what we've got?

Did he decide not to get a legitimate run stuffing DT?

He has done well drafting and adding talent to certain positions but we still have obvious weaknesses that he failed to address. If Cowher wants GM power, I say give it to him because Rick Smith is overrated on this board. Our overall talent is upgraded (mainly at the skill positions, but he only drafted Jacoby, Casey, Hill and Slaton) but our interior OL is the worst in the league because we didn't have quality depth at the guard positions and we didn't bother to bring in anyone who had a chance of beating out Chris Myers.
 
dalemurphy said:
Jacoby Jones too immature to be trusted as a starter
Zac Diles
Kasey Studdard terrible
Duane Brown on pace for 12 sacks
Steve Slaton fumble, fumblia, fumblroosky
Cushing
Barwin developmental project
G. Quin has been ok for a 4th rounder, but is being over hyped by fans
James Casey James "I fall down when I catch the ball" Casey hasn't been worth passing up on our other huge needs

all appear to be good draft picks... Okoye isn't exactly a horrible miss. There are very few misses (Bennett, Adibi?, Molden?) But, more impressive than his drafts, are his FAs, particularly the ones he's found under the rocks:

Dressen a quality backup at best
Briesel a quality backup at best
E. Wilson if he could tackle and play more than 6 games a year he would be ok
Pollard if he could cover he would be a quality starters. If he could cover
Reeves has been pretty solid, minus the last 2 games, but was terrible last year
Antonio Smith is an average pass rusher, and a poor run defender for $35,000,000
C Myers sucks
M. Schaub (trade) Kubes guy. Smith just worked out the details
Deljuan Robinson not even starting despite our DT woes
Bulman quality backup at best
Kevin Walter (trade) Brought in by Casserly in 2006
Andre Davis one good season, then was given a huge payday that he's done nothing to earn
Rashod Butler Hasn't seen the field. There's no way to say if he's a good or bad pickup.
Ryan Moats He's been a decent spell back
Shaun Cody quality depth at best
Click to expand...

bold
 
nero THE zero said:
Really? You pass on the best LB in football for a rotational DT and it isn't exactly a horrible miss?
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9 other teams passed on Willis, not to mention the ones that could've traded up for him but didn't. You can't judge drafts by the players the team didn't select. I'm not going to complain about the '06 draft because we didn't draft Colston in the 7th round.

Okoye wasn't a good pick. But, other than last season, he has been a decent DT... Everyone misses. I'm just saying it wasn't a horrible pick. Not good, though... that's for sure.
 
nunusguy said:
Everyone watching the game knew that was going to happen, but inexplicably the Texans couldn't stop him after doing so all game long. I dunno but the defense appeared fatigued to me ? Maybe our defense was on the field longer than I realized but they were sluggish at the end, got their hands on MJD but couldn't bring him down.
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IIRC, we were going at them with a four-man front. And the LBs were in some sort of man-zone read or something.

MJD had access to holes on the line of scrimmage that had been previously closed, consistently, by the Texans d-line and LBs.

In key situations, we have not been spying the other team's main weapon. Brian Cushing is THE guy to use as a spy on people like VY and MJD.

But this team's coach (Kubiak) can't see that, I suppose. He's got his head buried in the Denny's menu, trying to play o-coord and get ready for his next chance to shine...

This is why I got mad when we banned JJ from going to the game for missing meetings. His missing a meeting isn't what costs this team. Gary Kubiak is what costs this team. And even if we had a superstar coach like Cowher, he's not going to keep a playmaker at home like Gary did. He's going to play the playmaker, and fine him until he's poor and can't afford to miss meetings.

So all the way around, Gurry Kubiak has plotted his own demise.
 
dalemurphy said:
9 other teams passed on Willis, not to mention the ones that could've traded up for him but didn't. You can't judge drafts by the players the team didn't select. I'm not going to complain about the '06 draft because we didn't draft Colston in the 7th round.

Okoye wasn't a good pick. But, other than last season, he has been a decent DT... Everyone misses. I'm just saying it wasn't a horrible pick. Not good, though... that's for sure.
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At the Senior Bowl , Okoye who was at 287 lbs , was blowing by the OL in individual drills . In a game when space gets tighter ... he's not so hot . HWNSNBR did really well at practice in the Senior bowl but stunk in the game .
 
Another thing I consider is how uneven this team is.

We have more WR's than we can get on the field. I have no idea WTF they were thinking when they drafted Anthony Hill and James Casey in back-to-back rounds.

The fact that Antoine Caldwell and Anthony Hill have barely seen the field is a massive fail. This tells me that they were at best reaches and at worst busts.

Meanwhile, we're still waiting for a Safety and our D-Line is a bunch of underperformers.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens this off-season with player contracts. Some players who wanted to renegotiate this year were put off because deals couldn't get done, even though the team wanted to extend them. It's likely that other players as well as those will want to extend/rengotiate this year. For instance, what if Schaub looks at his numbers, his backups, and what other QBs make around the league, and decides that the roster bonus he is due isn't good enough? Note: I've heard nothing of the kind about Schaub; this is just an example of the type of thing that might happen.

Will another season of Rick Smith wielding the big stick and extending no one be a good solution for the long term success of the franchise?

Interesting times.
 
i'm suprised to see smith get knocked by his drafts, especially considering he's missing a second rounder for schaub and hasnt been around long enough to see any develope. given that in his 3 seasons we've landed 3 franchise players at left tackle, sam linebacker, and runningback - the scale takes a huge swing if caldwell (who absolutely looks the part) and barwin develope. glover quin appears to be everything we want, but then again texans rookie cornerbacks seem to do that. studdard, bennett, okoye, okam, jacoby, and more are at most their 3rd season. some wont, but i guarantee a few of these players will develope into the quality depth and possible starting positions they were drafted to provide.
 
dalemurphy said:
Geniusness of Rick Smith! He played hardball instead of letting the players dictate terms. Now, because of the collective bargaining situation, Demeco and OD are looking at 2 more years as RFAs. They will have to agree to a reasonable deal or face not getting a real contract until 2012.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Now you have an OD coming off an injury and DeMeco who both can be made as RFAs now that the uncapped year is imminent (actually has been imminent for almost 2 years now to be honest)

It may not do a lot for loyalty for those guys but what are those players doing that is so irreplaceable. Both are good players but they aren't doing anything that can't be replaced with less money and spend the savings on areas of true need (DT, C, CB, FS)

That being said, Rick Smith probably has to go in order to get one of the top coaching candidates in town.

KUBIAK SUCKS
 
It's funny how soon people forget (in general not this board as much) just how bad this organization was prior to Kubiak & Smith. When it comes to the draft & free agency they had no equal :firehair:
 
dalemurphy said:
9 other teams passed on Willis, not to mention the ones that could've traded up for him but didn't. You can't judge drafts by the players the team didn't select.
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Yea, some teams passed on him for good players (Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, LaRon Landry) and some passed on him for bad players (JaMarcus Russell, Ted Ginn, Jamaal Anderson.) We happen to be in the latter catagory.

And, you can't judge drafts by players you didn't select, but by ones you did select. And we selected a mediocre (at best) player. The fact that there was a better player available (that most Texans fans would've rather had) is simply salt in the wound.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Agreed. Now you have an OD coming off an injury and DeMeco who both can be made as RFAs now that the uncapped year is imminent (actually has been imminent for almost 2 years now to be honest)

It may not do a lot for loyalty for those guys but what are those players doing that is so irreplaceable. Both are good players but they aren't doing anything that can't be replaced with less money and spend the savings on areas of true need (DT, C, CB, FS)

That being said, Rick Smith probably has to go in order to get one of the top coaching candidates in town.

KUBIAK SUCKS
Click to expand...

We are 0-4 without OD...
 
We have lots to worry about:

1. A lack of a 100% true blue, bonified starting running back who can lock up that spot.

2. Owen Daniels might not be the same guy ever again. Do we trust that Hill and/or Casey are the guys to replace OD in an effective manner? If not, does this team consider a TE in the first round now?

3. DeMeco should get a new deal no matter what happens for 2010 with the CBA and the NFL and the NFLPA. He just SHOULD get a new deal. I wanted to see how he did this year, to prove he's "with it" and the dude IS with it.

4. Andre Johnson, IMO, is going to want some sort of big splash to be kept ont his team. I don't think bringing back Gary Kubiak is going to do that.

It's time for this team to go BIG.

They need to do a TON when the season is over.

We need a big splash in these areas:

1. A free agency head-turner, spending a lot of that supposed cap space we have (and making it COUNT. I want a playmaker).

2. New head coach. And that's a huge gamble for any team in the position of needing a new head coach. Probably THE biggest gamble for any team.

3. Re-sign DeMeco and show the team that great play is rewarded properly.

4. Incorporate Jacoby Jones into this offense or trade the guy. But don't continue the farce. I bet there will be 20 teams interested in his playmaking ability, and they won't hesitate to grab him. They need to make up their mind.

5. Find a true-blue 100% bonified running back. If you have to trade up to get Mark Ingram, if he's THAT good (which he looks verrry good to me) then you do it. You give away other draft picks to move out of 15th or 18th and go get the guy. Have some stones. Make a splash for a change.

6. You absolutely DO draft a Qb in higher rounds, trying to sit him and see if Matt Schaub can be "the" guy. With the multiple shoulder injuries...I'm not sure he's the guy. Throwing lots of passes into the dirt and behind receivers. And this was being done BEFORE the injury, btw.

The defense is actually playing hard-nosed football. Somehow, the d-coord has found a way to tak ehis squad and make things work. Good job to Frank Bush, except for failing to spy VY and MJD.
 
Scooter said:
... in his 3 seasons we've landed 3 franchise players at left tackle, sam linebacker, and runningback ...
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Can you define what you mean by "franchise player"? I don't think I have the same definition.
 
Runner said:
Can you define what you mean by "franchise player"? I don't think I have the same definition.
Click to expand...

Brown sure as hell isn't all that good of a player. He ain't a liability but he isn't all that great. Slaton is definitely not all that great.

Now Cushing looks like he is going to be a good, if not great, one but that is it. Smith has done well but he hasn't done so much that he should be deemed irreplaceable.

Just sayin'. I guess I have never been a huge fan of the Duane Brown pick and probably never will be. He seems like just another guy to me.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Brown sure as hell isn't all that good of a player. He ain't a liability but he isn't all that great. Slaton is definitely not all that great.

Now Cushing looks like he is going to be a good, if not great, one but that is it. Smith has done well but he hasn't done so much that he should be deemed irreplaceable.

Just sayin'. I guess I have never been a huge fan of the Duane Brown pick and probably never will be. He seems like just another guy to me.
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Getting Matty Ice Pack clobbered 20-30 times every year makes him a liability.
 
Is this GM here because of Gary Kubiak?

We hired Gary, then later hired Rick Smith (retaining Casserly through the draft). AND...Smith is from Denver.

Maybe this was discussed on previous threads the past few years, but I don't recall the conversation(s) on it.

Is this GM directly handcuffed to this head coach? Is he here because Kubiak is here? Are they tied together? Could Smith tolerate ANY new head coach, or would there be a clash because the new coach might not be a guy like Kubiak (and thus Smith can't work well with someone who is not similar to Gary Kubiak)?

This is going to be an interesting process once the season is over.

Verrrry interesting.
 
Goatcheese said:
Getting Matty Ice Pack clobbered 20-30 times every year makes him a liability.
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I won't go that far as labeling him a liability but he sure isn't as good as some people seem to think he is. Just because the Texans drafted him in the 1st Round doesn't make him a good player. Just because San Diego was supposedly going to draft him if we didn't in the 1st Round doesn't make him a good player or a good pick.

His play has made him just another guy. Nothing special and definitely not something that Rick Smith should be able to hang his hat on.
 
Runner said:
Can you define what you mean by "franchise player"? I don't think I have the same definition.
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franchise for me means we've acquired a starter for the tenure of an extended contract (4-7 years), if not a much longer career in the city. while there are imperfections i havent missed, and some i've been leading the charge on (nobody's railed harder on slaton than me around here), we've hit those 3. we're not going to draft a 1st round left tackle or sam or runningback - those 3 positions are taken care of. an arguement can be made for runningback but we're not looking for a replacement, we're looking for a compliment.
 
I guess there are 3 possible scenarios to look at:

1) The players are good enough to be winning more than we are doing right now.

2) The players aren't as good as we thought and the fact that we're destined to be 8-8 means the coaching is terrific.

3) We need better players and we need someone to utilize them better.

I think we still have holes, but I think the talent that is on this team is more than enough to be 8-4 or 9-3 right now instead of 5-7. I think Smith would keep his job depending on who McNair would be targeting.

I guess there is a 4th option: Both the coaching and the talent level are great and this team is doing a terrific job. They just need another year of seasoning to put it all together. Or something along those lines.
 
GP said:
Is this GM here because of Gary Kubiak?

We hired Gary, then later hired Rick Smith (retaining Casserly through the draft). AND...Smith is from Denver.

Maybe this was discussed on previous threads the past few years, but I don't recall the conversation(s) on it.

Is this GM directly handcuffed to this head coach? Is he here because Kubiak is here? Are they tied together? Could Smith tolerate ANY new head coach, or would there be a clash because the new coach might not be a guy like Kubiak (and thus Smith can't work well with someone who is not similar to Gary Kubiak)?

This is going to be an interesting process once the season is over.

Verrrry interesting.
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That is something to be considered. Those 2 do work well together and I do think they have similar philosophies.
 
Scooter said:
Can you define what you mean by "franchise player"? I don't think I have the same definition.
Click to expand...

franchise for me means we've acquired a starter for the tenure of an extended contract (4-7 years), if not a much longer career in the city. while there are imperfections i havent missed, and some i've been leading the charge on (nobody's railed harder on slaton than me around here), we've hit those 3. we're not going to draft a 1st round left tackle or sam or runningback - those 3 positions are taken care of. an arguement can be made for runningback but we're not looking for a replacement, we're looking for a compliment.
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For the sake of this point, I'll narrow this discussion down to Brown at left tackle. I consider a young Orlando Pace an example of a "franchise" left tackle. A team drafts him, starts him immediately, and (barring injury) doesn't worry about the position in the long term and doesn't worry about the position in the short term i.e. game to game matchups.

Calling Duane Brown a franchise left tackle dilutes the term. He's an adequate starter for this franchise. That's about it.
 
Runner said:
For the sake of this point, I'll narrow this discussion down to Brown at left tackle. I consider a young Orlando Pace an example of a "franchise" left tackle. A team drafts him, starts him immediately, and (barring injury) doesn't worry about the position in the long term and doesn't worry about the position in the short term i.e. game to game matchups.

Calling Duane Brown a franchise left tackle dilutes the term. He's an adequate starter for this franchise. That's about it.
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Would Duane Brown be better fit for Guard instead of Tackle?

He doesn't appear to be a "franchise" LT to me. Adequate is a good term.
 
Runner said:
For the sake of this point, I'll narrow this discussion down to Brown at left tackle. I consider a young Orlando Pace an example of a "franchise" left tackle. A team drafts him, starts him immediately, and (barring injury) doesn't worry about the position in the long term and doesn't worry about the position in the short term i.e. game to game matchups.

Calling Duane Brown a franchise left tackle dilutes the term. He's an adequate starter for this franchise. That's about it.
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That's like saying you consider a young Jon Elway a franchise QB. Well, yea I guess so. But using Orlando Pace as an example is kinda setting the bar to an unrealistic comparison, don't you think ? Pace is of course a future HOFamer.
Getting Duane Brown in the late or mid twenties is value IMO, and that's not even including the boot Smith received in the trade (Slaton).
Now if you want to complain about Okoye, you get no argument from me about the mistake of using the 10th overall on that pick.
 
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