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Pass Rush?

D

datchapin

Waterboy
I watched all the games and the thing I wonder is why we aren't getting to the QB. I see us getting close. Oh so close, but we don't get there as often. This offseason we focused on the pass-rush by picking up Smith and Barwin. Awesome sack by Barwin this weekend. I realize Mario is having probs. with his shoulder, but at the same time I wonder what everyone thinks is attributing to the lack of sacks.

Thanx.
 
The sack numbers may not be there, but they ARE rushing the passer
quite well. This defensive line has been in the backfield CONSISTENTLY
all year long. It's the reason they've forced so many 3rd and longs, and
I remember one play in particular on Sunday.

It was 3rd and 1, and the Bengals handed the ball to Benson. Antonio Smith
and Amobi Okoye (yeah, I know. The whippin boy himself) crashed the
right side of the offensive line, allowing Cushing, Demeco, and Reeves to
smash Benson in the backfield.

They got off the field on 3rd and 1, largely because the defensive line is
consistently disrupting the offensive backfield. By far, this defense
is LIGHTYEARS ahead of ANYTHING this organization has put out there
in the last 7 years.
 
Whats that......

Just kidding, although there aren't big sack totals to show for it, it seems like the pass rush is working. There have been a lot of dropped balls, and although some may be attributed to poor WR play, I think a lot of it is the ball not bieng where the QB and WR expect it.

These dropped passes could be an anomoly, but I think not, we faced two great QB's the last two weeks, and there were some incompletions that wouldn't have happened if the QB's weren't a little nervous.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see #90 with 20+ sacks, but it's the W's that count!!!!!!
 
DexmanC said:
The sack numbers may not be there, but they ARE rushing the passer
quite well. This defensive line has been in the backfield CONSISTENTLY
all year long. It's the reason they've forced so many 3rd and longs, and
I remember one play in particular on Sunday.

It was 3rd and 1, and the Bengals handed the ball to Benson. Antonio Smith
and Amobi Okoye (yeah, I know. The whippin boy himself) crashed the
right side of the offensive line, allowing Cushing, Demeco, and Reeves to
smash Benson in the backfield.

They got off the field on 3rd and 1, largely because the defensive line is
consistently disrupting the offensive backfield. By far, this defense
is LIGHTYEARS ahead of ANYTHING this organization has put out there
in the last 7 years.
Click to expand...

our defense was better under Capers. that was almost a playoff caliber defense back then. too bad our offense and QB play stunk to high hell.

if we had Capers defense from back then with our offense we have now, we would be dominate. And dont give me a bunch of stats about our defense, our defense was on the field constantly because that nancy boy David couldn't get a first down.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
our defense was better under Capers. that was almost a playoff caliber defense back then. too bad our offense and QB play stunk to high hell.

if we had Capers defense from back then with our offense we have now, we would be dominate. And dont give me a bunch of stats about our defense, our defense was on the field constantly because that nancy boy David couldn't get a first down.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure about this. Certainly, we had a much more experienced group when Seth Payne and Gary Walker were both healthy and Jamie Sharper and Aaron Glenn were here. But, in general, we are always pretty weak at safety and always lacked pass rushers and LBs outside of Sharper that could make a play. I think our defense now has much more potential than that one and that by the end of the season this won't by a debate. If you just take a 6 game snapshot of this season then it's hard to argue that this season's defense is better than some of those before. I think some of us are focused on the improvement and potential of the defense and that is what we are excited about... not the play the past 6 weeks as a whole.
 
The Texans defense during the first season was pretty darn good. Didn't we beat the Steelers despite only managing 40 yards on offense? I seem to recall the defense scoring 3 TDs.
 
Hookem Horns said:
The Texans defense during the first season was pretty darn good. Didn't we beat the Steelers despite only managing 40 yards on offense? I seem to recall the defense scoring 3 TDs.
Click to expand...

Yes, they played a good game. 2 TDs and 1 ST TD... but it was Tommy Maddox at QB his first game back after a devasting concussion and we did give up over 400 yards.
 
They only way we get a decent pass rush is if Frank Bush calls a blitz. I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) we're close to leading the league in the amount of times we blitz. And you would think that if we are blitzing that much, we could get our hands on the QB more, but we don't.

What really bothers me is that it seems like the only time we get real pressure, is when Demeco and Cush are blitzing at the same time.

It would be really nice to see what Bush could do scheme-wise if he didn't have to blitz so much to cover for the inability of the four down linemen to get pressure on the QB all by themselves.
 
dalemurphy said:
Yes, they played a good game. 2 TDs and 1 ST TD... but it was Tommy Maddox at QB his first game back after a devasting concussion and we did give up over 400 yards.
Click to expand...

not the game he's talking about. we gave up, like 40 yards. i'm not sure if that was the first or second season.

my bad. i just looked we did give up over 400 yards. it was us who only had 40 something yards.lol
 
Once Mario transforms back into the Super Mario we've become aquainted with the past 2 seasons and starts turning those pressures into sacks this defense will hit the next level of their development.
 
When you are blitzing this much and not getting sacks, I think it starts to become a back end issue. You get sacks when QBs are forced to hold onto the ball. Corners have to be able to cover their man and not let the QB complete the easy hot route. If you look at the sacks Schaub has taken, he has held the ball well over 3 seconds.
 
dtran04 said:
When you are blitzing this much and not getting sacks, I think it starts to become a back end issue. You get sacks when QBs are forced to hold onto the ball. Corners have to be able to cover their man and not let the QB complete the easy hot route. If you look at the sacks Schaub has taken, he has held the ball well over 3 seconds.
Click to expand...

Sacks will also come as the defense incorporates more complex coverages. Many sacks happen when a QB expects a certain coverage and sees something different after his drop and then has to pull the ball in. We should expect more of that as the season progresses.

Also, we will collect sacks in games where we have significant second half leads. The more predictable passing situation for the opposing team, the easier to attack the QB.
 
I would love to see more sacks by Texans. However, if we are putting enough pressure on QB to make throw in hurry and causing havoc on offence, I have no problem with it. That said, I do miss Mario's sack( I would like to see every week if possible)

Go Texans!!!
 
we have to pick our poison here..............

the problem is not the edges guys.........seriously...after further review mario is getting off the ball like a rocket, and smith and barwin are getting good edge rush....thats not the problem with the pass rush......mario has been a fingertip from a sack on mostly every single play......

so heres the million dollar question....whats wrong with the rush?????


well it is the interior nose play..... it has left alot to be desired and amobi cant make the impact hisself although he has come on as of late......but the tackle just is not getting any inside push on most plays....thus this allows the OT's to just run mario and smith outta the play...when the QB feels the heat of mario or smith firing off the edge, all he has to do is step up in the pocket allow mario to run a huge loop and make a pass......i have seen this play over and over and over again. Which has lead to us getting goughed on 3rd down because the QB just steps ups....no interior pressure, buys some time, and eats our inexperianced secondary for lunch.....

amobi has played great as of late but he cannot acheive this by himself......so until we get a big mean nose who can blow up the pocket, or one of our space eaters wakes up and shows he has a pulse we will continue to see this problem.

but man when we finally get somebody to consistently get a push up the middle of the Dline this defense is gonna be downright scary. And mario and smiths sack totals will soar becuz the QB has no option becuz the pocket has been compromised........

but on a lighter note frank has seemed to start figuring out his best lineup as of late puttin high motor guys along the line, even if its 3 defensive ends on the field, havin guys get some push and disrupt the pocket....so we shall see what lies ahead for us......in the coming weeks...cheeers frank:glasshalffull::headbang:
 
dtran04 said:
When you are blitzing this much and not getting sacks, I think it starts to become a back end issue. You get sacks when QBs are forced to hold onto the ball. Corners have to be able to cover their man and not let the QB complete the easy hot route. If you look at the sacks Schaub has taken, he has held the ball well over 3 seconds.
Click to expand...

I agree with this statement. I think Barwin's sack is the only one where we just blasted the LT and got to the QB. All of Mario's sacks this year have been because of coverage. That's twice. Other times you see him get real close but the ball is out of the QBs hands.
 
jshabang said:
we have to pick our poison here..............

the problem is not the edges guys.........seriously...after further review mario is getting off the ball like a rocket, and smith and barwin are getting good edge rush....thats not the problem with the pass rush......mario has been a fingertip from a sack on mostly every single play......

so heres the million dollar question....whats wrong with the rush?????


well it is the interior nose play..... it has left alot to be desired and amobi cant make the impact hisself although he has come on as of late......but the tackle just is not getting any inside push on most plays....thus this allows the OT's to just run mario and smith outta the play...when the QB feels the heat of mario or smith firing off the edge, all he has to do is step up in the pocket allow mario to run a huge loop and make a pass......i have seen this play over and over and over again. Which has lead to us getting goughed on 3rd down because the QB just steps ups....no interior pressure, buys some time, and eats our inexperianced secondary for lunch.....

amobi has played great as of late but he cannot acheive this by himself......so until we get a big mean nose who can blow up the pocket, or one of our space eaters wakes up and shows he has a pulse we will continue to see this problem.

but man when we finally get somebody to consistently get a push up the middle of the Dline this defense is gonna be downright scary. And mario and smiths sack totals will soar becuz the QB has no option becuz the pocket has been compromised........

but on a lighter note frank has seemed to start figuring out his best lineup as of late puttin high motor guys along the line, even if its 3 defensive ends on the field, havin guys get some push and disrupt the pocket....so we shall see what lies ahead for us......in the coming weeks...cheeers frank:glasshalffull::headbang:
Click to expand...

I also agree with this.
 
jshabang said:
we have to pick our poison here..............

the problem is not the edges guys.........seriously...after further review mario is getting off the ball like a rocket, and smith and barwin are getting good edge rush....thats not the problem with the pass rush......mario has been a fingertip from a sack on mostly every single play......

so heres the million dollar question....whats wrong with the rush?????


well it is the interior nose play..... it has left alot to be desired and amobi cant make the impact hisself although he has come on as of late......but the tackle just is not getting any inside push on most plays....thus this allows the OT's to just run mario and smith outta the play...when the QB feels the heat of mario or smith firing off the edge, all he has to do is step up in the pocket allow mario to run a huge loop and make a pass......i have seen this play over and over and over again. Which has lead to us getting goughed on 3rd down because the QB just steps ups....no interior pressure, buys some time, and eats our inexperianced secondary for lunch.....

amobi has played great as of late but he cannot acheive this by himself......so until we get a big mean nose who can blow up the pocket, or one of our space eaters wakes up and shows he has a pulse we will continue to see this problem.

but man when we finally get somebody to consistently get a push up the middle of the Dline this defense is gonna be downright scary. And mario and smiths sack totals will soar becuz the QB has no option becuz the pocket has been compromised........

but on a lighter note frank has seemed to start figuring out his best lineup as of late puttin high motor guys along the line, even if its 3 defensive ends on the field, havin guys get some push and disrupt the pocket....so we shall see what lies ahead for us......in the coming weeks...cheeers frank:glasshalffull::headbang:
Click to expand...

Amen...if we could collapse the middle all hell would break loose....I know we don't run a 3-4 but remember after the 2005 season Ray Lewis basically told the Ravens Mgmt that we need a BIG NT to free me up and they went and got Ngata
 
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We actually improve our interior pressure this year, marginally.
(What's a slight increase from non-existence? LOL!)

But we don't get to the QB off the edge as much.

Antonio Smith is a pretty decent player, but his price tag is still not deserving!
 
Our pass rush still stinks and the secondary doesn't help them any. We might be getting better, but the true test will come 11/8.
 
1. Mario's sore shoulder not allowing him to push off or arm sweep a blocker
2. Cushing's sore foot
3. Increased focus on stopping the run

I need to see continued effort by Smith that he has shown last two games. I agree we need a strong DT that either takes up two defenders or can push pocket into QB or collapse it. Not too many DT's like that in Free Agency and even less in draft. It was not that long ago, we were saying "if the defense could just improve a little bit and cut back on stupid TDs the offense would get us some wins." Well, here we go.
 
The last few weeks we've opted for a smaller front 4. I think we've looked better, I know Indy pulled it off with smaller DLines. So the bigger DT argument as far as pass rush.... IDK. Hopefully we see Hill go down plenty this sunday. I heard some arguments as well that the other teams never play from behind leaving us less opportunities. Hopefully we'll see an early lead and see if this argument is what it is.
 
badboy said:
1. Mario's sore shoulder not allowing him to push off or arm sweep a blocker
2. Cushing's sore foot
3. Increased focus on stopping the run

I need to see continued effort by Smith that he has shown last two games. I agree we need a strong DT that either takes up two defenders or can push pocket into QB or collapse it. Not too many DT's like that in Free Agency and even less in draft. It was not that long ago, we were saying "if the defense could just improve a little bit and cut back on stupid TDs the offense would get us some wins." Well, here we go.
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1. Mario also needs a strong shoulder to vary his rush with a twist inside (which we have seen none of this year).

2. Cushing's sore foot hasn't apparently affected his play...........yet.

3. I'm afraid that if we don't figure a way to balance our D scheme, all the blitzing and putting so many in the box for stopping the run, will eventually catch up with us with a seasoned, smart and accurate QB............maybe, just a lucky one.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
1. Mario also needs a strong shoulder to vary his rush with a twist inside (which we have seen none of this year).

2. Cushing's sore foot hasn't apparently affected his play...........yet.

3. I'm afraid that if we don't figure a way to balance our D scheme, all the blitzing and putting so many in the box for stopping the run, will eventually catch up with us with a seasoned, smart and accurate QB............maybe, just a lucky one.
Click to expand...

As for number 3, I think the words you are looking for is Peyton Manning. He will eat us alive if we do not get the pressure there extremely fast. I think we will need to give him every look we have to keep him guessing, and just hope he can't be right all the time.
 
Marcus said:
They only way we get a decent pass rush is if Frank Bush calls a blitz. I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) we're close to leading the league in the amount of times we blitz. And you would think that if we are blitzing that much, we could get our hands on the QB more, but we don't.

What really bothers me is that it seems like the only time we get real pressure, is when Demeco and Cush are blitzing at the same time.

It would be really nice to see what Bush could do scheme-wise if he didn't have to blitz so much to cover for the inability of the four down linemen to get pressure on the QB all by themselves.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've ever seen a team blitz so much and NOT get to the QB.
 
Speedy said:
I don't think I've ever seen a team blitz so much and NOT get to the QB.
Click to expand...


The basic pass rush is established off the effectivness of the front 4 to get to the QB. This is heavily dependent on the tackles. The pass rush is all about individual matchups. Our players are just not winning one-on-one matchups.

Therefore, the blitz. Buddy Ryan used to say that you should only blitz when the offense has one less blocker than you have rushers. This depends on smart play calling and smart players to recognize the blocking schemes before the ball is snapped in order to know whether and where to blitz. If not, a decent QB will be able to avoid a sack at very least with quick slants (especially, if the CBs play off the receivers). Do we have the braintrust needed to do this correctly instead of blindly by shotgun approach?

On a defense that has smaller, quicker players, the smart way to plan blitzes would be quick ones from the edges, not trying to stuff linebackers and defensive backs up the middle where they're smothered by larger players. I haven’t seen much of that. It’s almost like we’ve carried over our stubborness from the offense, of insisting on always running between the tackles, instead of calling for plays to the outside.
 
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Speedy said:
I don't think I've ever seen a team blitz so much and NOT get to the QB.
Click to expand...

Our blitzes suck..

They are not disguised very well, they are not very exotic, and we have poor blitzers. Last week Mario was getting blocked one on one by a TE.. are you kidding me? A TE? Our favorite blitz seems to be to overload the A gaps with 3 blitzers but almost never works..

Peyton and other good QB's are going to destroy us with their passing game, luckily there aren't that many good QB's this year that we have to face, other than Peyton twice.
 
We only have 3 natural blitzers:
Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, and Bernard Pollard.

Last year, Demeco was the only player we had smart enough to blitz.
I believe they'll improve as the season goes along. Fortunately for us,
we're only asking them to hold teams to 20 points or less. They don't need
to be the 2000 Ravens.
 
The pressure has been effective. We held the last 3 teams we've played to 0 points in the second half.
 
barrett said:
The pressure has been effective. We held the last 3 teams we've played to 0 points in the second half.
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Exactly. You don't have to get sacks as long as you're pressuring the QB into bad throws. Hence the bad passes and INT's. As long as this defense continues to improve, we should be looking pretty good come December.
 
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