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Is Slaton Westrbook 2.0???

Texecutioner

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Well I don't know who Slaton reminds everyone else of, but Westrook for me. Slaton has that really good vision like Westy does when he gets into open space and he seemed to be really good in the passing game this year as well. Actually I think that Slaton runs even harder than Westbrook.

Slaton really reminded me of Westy in that one game where he took that screen pass to the house. It was called back by a BS penalty that had no significance at all near the play, but I thought that screen pass play was fantastic and really looked like Westy on that play.

Westbrook has been my favorite RB in the league the last few years, so it is great that our new rookie reminds me of such a great RB that is also an exciting one. We really need to get Slaton a lot more involved in the passing game though the way the Eagles do with Westy.
 
Texecutioner said:
Well I don't know who Slaton reminds everyone else of, but Westrook for me. Slaton has that really good vision like Westy does when he gets into open space and he seemed to be really good in the passing game this year as well. Actually I think that Slaton runs even harder than Westbrook.

Slaton really reminded me of Westy in that one game where he took that screen pass to the house. It was called back by a BS penalty that had no significance at all near the play, but I thought that screen pass play was fantastic and really looked like Westy on that play.

Westbrook has been my favorite RB in the league the last few years, so it is great that our new rookie reminds me of such a great RB that is also an exciting one. We really need to get Slaton a lot more involved in the passing game though the way the Eagles do with Westy.
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Good comparison. That play that got called back was in the Baltimore game. Once that happened, we never recovered.

If Slaton can have the kind of career Westbrook has had, we will be extremely happy.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Good comparison. That play that got called back was in the Baltimore game. Once that happened, we never recovered.

If Slaton can have the kind of career Westbrook has had, we will be extremely happy.
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Well he is short just like Westy and really seems to have that same kind of vision. I don't care what anyone says Westbrook has had the best vision of any back in the league the last few seasons once he gets past the line of scrimmage. He takes 15 yard pass plays to the house on the regular. That play of Westbrook yesterday was just another for his archive.

I think that we'll be seeing similar stuff out of Slaton. Slaton is much better than Westbrook was in Westbrook's rookie season. I'm not saying that he'll have a better career, but he has already had a much better start and has a very similar skill set with the way Slaton can shake and bake and shift from side to side like Westy.
 
They have similar skill sets and similar size; I'd say the comparison is apt. But that's not to say Slaton will have the same kind of success as Westbrook.

Also, you have to take the good with the bad. If Slaton does have the same speed, vision, and burst as Westbrook, he might also have the same durability, which will be an issue. With the hits Slaton takes on his small frame and the taxing his running style takes on his body, it becomes imperative that we add a second back to (1) lighten the load on Slaton, (2) be a viable fill-in for the inevitable missed games, and (3) offer a contrasting style for defenses to plan against.
 
We need to get someone to share the load with Steve, thats pretty obvious. We don't want to burn this guy out and be left with nothing. The days of the 'featured back' are over.

The good news is that I think Kubiak and Smith are both well aware of this and are going to try and go out and get him some help. They will see what there is in the draft I think first.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
We need to get someone to share the load with Steve, thats pretty obvious. We don't want to burn this guy out and be left with nothing. The days of the 'featured back' are over.

The good news is that I think Kubiak and Smith are both well aware of this and are going to try and go out and get him some help. They will see what there is in the draft I think first.
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I would love to get Shon Greene to pair with Slaton. Dude is going to be a great bruising back. He'll either be off the boards in the first or second round though, so no realistic chance we could get Greene. We shouldn't even consider picking a RB at least until the 3rd round. We need to stack up the D.
 
nero THE zero said:
They have similar skill sets and similar size; I'd say the comparison is apt. But that's not to say Slaton will have the same kind of success as Westbrook.

Also, you have to take the good with the bad. If Slaton does have the same speed, vision, and burst as Westbrook, he might also have the same durability, which will be an issue. With the hits Slaton takes on his small frame and the taxing his running style takes on his body, it becomes imperative that we add a second back to (1) lighten the load on Slaton, (2) be a viable fill-in for the inevitable missed games, and (3) offer a contrasting style for defenses to plan against.
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True to a point. We definitely need another RB to share the load w/ Slaton, but the ZBS the Texans run is a far cry from the schemes used in the Iggles offense. Ideally, he should NOT be taking as much a pounding at the line of scrimmage.
 
Texecutioner said:
I would love to get Shon Greene to pair with Slaton. Dude is going to be a great bruising back. He'll either be off the boards in the first or second round though, so no realistic chance we could get Greene. We shouldn't even consider picking a RB at least until the 3rd round. We need to stack up the D.
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Agreed. I also strongly believe we need a new C. I am no expert, but it would seem to me that at all the other OL positions lighter, faster guys can be used. I do not believe this is the case with the C. You have got to have a guy that can get a good push and pave the way for the RB through those big DTs.
 
I'd say he is. They are about the same size, too, only Westbrook is obviously more muscular (being in the league longer).
 
I was gonna say Westbrook looks like he has a little more meat on his bones, but nfl.com lists Slaton at 5'9, 203 #'s and Westbrook at 5'10, 203 #'s - very similar. I think it's a good comparison. Westbrook is kind of an odd duck in that he gets mentioned as being underrated so often that I'm not sure who's left out there still, for lack of a better word, underrating him. Westbrook is consistently one of the most productive players in the league and is a constant threat to take it to the house. Slaton brings the same home run threat, but I think he still needs to develop his pass catching a bit to be on par with Westbrook. I'd love to see Slaton get more well-timed screens and just let him do his thing like the Eagles do with BW.
 
NFL.com may not be very up to date. Wetbrooks gotta be knock'n on 225.

But I wouldn't compare SS with Westbrook. For the longest, Westbrook couldn't take it up the middle. Steve hasn't had that problem yet.

I like that Moats kid, he's just as fast, if not faster. I'd like to keep him in the rotation. Then we've got Darius Walker to go after the tough yards,

not to mention we might get something out of Green & Chris Brown next year.
 
thunderkyss said:
NFL.com may not be very up to date. Wetbrooks gotta be knock'n on 225.

But I wouldn't compare SS with Westbrook. For the longest, Westbrook couldn't take it up the middle. Steve hasn't had that problem yet.

I like that Moats kid, he's just as fast, if not faster. I'd like to keep him in the rotation. Then we've got Darius Walker to go after the tough yards,

not to mention we might get something out of Green & Chris Brown next year.
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I'm pretty sure we don't have Darius Walker anymore (been a while) and I'm not taking my chances with Chris Brown and Ahman Green next year. Moats will be #3.
 
Ive been saying for a couple years that we need a Westbrook style of back.. so I hope that is exactly what Slaton ends up being.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Agreed. I also strongly believe we need a new C. I am no expert, but it would seem to me that at all the other OL positions lighter, faster guys can be used. I do not believe this is the case with the C. You have got to have a guy that can get a good push and pave the way for the RB through those big DTs.
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C is actually the most undersized OL position as a general matter.

thunderkyss said:
NFL.com may not be very up to date. Wetbrooks gotta be knock'n on 225.
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Not a chance in hades Westbrook goes 225 lbs. By the way, the Eagles list him at 203 as well.
 
Slaton is very comparable to Westbrook but Slaton reminds me of Tony Dorsett but Westbrook is a great comparison and I hope he grows into marshall faulk #2
 
infantrycak said:
C is actually the most undersized OL position as a general matter.
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Is that the case even in zone blocking schemes? I guess I haven't ever really taken the time to examine it. It just seems with the Texans we never get that big push up front we need. Do we just need a big bruiser at RB or is Chris Myers our problem? Myers just seems to constantly collapse under the pressure of the big guys. Personally, I like Pitts and think Briesel is serviceable. Thoughts? I'd love to hear more from you Icak.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Is that the case even in zone blocking schemes? I guess I haven't ever really taken the time to examine it. It just seems with the Texans we never get that big push up front we need. Do we just need a big bruiser at RB or is Chris Myers our problem? Myers just seems to constantly collapse under the pressure of the big guys. Personally, I like Pitts and think Briesel is serviceable. Thoughts? I'd love to hear more from you Icak.
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Look at Denver's two C's--285 lbs and 286 lbs. Myers' size is fine for the system, but the system isn't set up for straight ahead power short yardage plays and he gets overpowered when trying to play heads up. When he can get moving on the zone plays he does much better. On those short yardage situations I think the problem has been more the OL and less the RB. I am not a fan of the bigger is better theory to RB's. The best TD scorers in history have mainly been Emmitt Smith sized guys. Instead of the battering ram approach, I think the play calling needs to look to the edges and corner more.
 
Another thing in common is that Westbook was overlooked coming out as he lasted until the third round as Slaton did. And Steve is a native of the Philly area while Westy plays and is from nearby D.C.
 
Good comparison, imo. As a rookie, Steve's already got the head of a vet too. Wasn't it Westbrook the RB that had a free and clear TD but kneeled just short to keep the clock running and secure a Victory? Slaton did a similar thing this year, albeit it wasn't for a TD. Most RB's, especially rookies would go get the most yards they could.

Everytime I think about Slaton I get excited about our team.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
We need to get someone to share the load with Steve, thats pretty obvious. We don't want to burn this guy out and be left with nothing. The days of the 'featured back' are over.

The good news is that I think Kubiak and Smith are both well aware of this and are going to try and go out and get him some help. They will see what there is in the draft I think first.
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Yeah, they went out of their way to spell him. Even when he stayed on the field, they split him out to eliminate some of his contact. They want him to run the ball 15 times, max. That just wasnt an option this year.
 
Im thinking Steve might also end up being a player like Dunta by makinng other players better in game and during practice....
 
infantrycak said:
Look at Denver's two C's--285 lbs and 286 lbs. Myers' size is fine for the system, but the system isn't set up for straight ahead power short yardage plays and he gets overpowered when trying to play heads up. When he can get moving on the zone plays he does much better. On those short yardage situations I think the problem has been more the OL and less the RB. I am not a fan of the bigger is better theory to RB's. The best TD scorers in history have mainly been Emmitt Smith sized guys. Instead of the battering ram approach, I think the play calling needs to look to the edges and corner more.
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So that being the case, what do you think we need to do to perform better in the red zone? If we don't need a big bruiser or a big, powerful C, what do we need to do to have more success on short yardage, "pound it up the middle" plays?
 
infantrycak said:
Look at Denver's two C's--285 lbs and 286 lbs. Myers' size is fine for the system, but the system isn't set up for straight ahead power short yardage plays and he gets overpowered when trying to play heads up. When he can get moving on the zone plays he does much better. On those short yardage situations I think the problem has been more the OL and less the RB. I am not a fan of the bigger is better theory to RB's. The best TD scorers in history have mainly been Emmitt Smith sized guys. Instead of the battering ram approach, I think the play calling needs to look to the edges and corner more.
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I agree that we need to take a look at what other ZBS teams did in the redzone, like the Panthers, and the Packs.

But also, there were plenty of big backs that led the league in rushing TD in the past.
Even though we don't need to spend big money for one of the high price FAs, it wouldn't hurt to see if any big UDFA can be of some help. You never know!
 
Ckw5814 said:
So that being the case, what do you think we need to do to perform better in the red zone? If we don't need a big bruiser or a big, powerful C, what do we need to do to have more success on short yardage, "pound it up the middle" plays?
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I'm not sure pound it up the middle plays will ever be a strength with this system. Denver had similar woes. Looking at Slaton's splits though, 6 of his 9 TD's came on downs with 0-2 yards to go for a first down. Certainly we got stuffed at times, but we poked some in as well. I'd like to see us get more aggressive in the red zone before we get inside the 2 yard line, particularly using OD more.

76Texan said:
But also, there were plenty of big backs that led the league in rushing TD in the past.
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I was talking about the guys that set single season rushing records. Sure there have been some big backs have good single seasons and even set the record, such as Sean Alexander (and he was not a RB who played to his size) but most of the best goal line guys have not gotten in because they were running 300 pounders over.

Even though we don't need to spend big money for one of the high price FAs, it wouldn't hurt to see if any big UDFA can be of some help. You never know!
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I still want them to take a run at least to find out how much Darren Sproles thinks he is worth. Not sign him no matter what the cost, but explore what he wants.
 
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infantrycak said:
I'm not sure pound it up the middle plays will ever be a strength with this system. Denver had similar woes. Looking at Slaton's splits though, 6 of his 9 TD's came on downs with 0-2 yards to go for a first down. Certainly we got stuffed at times, but we poked some in as well. I'd like to see us get more aggressive in the red zone before we get inside the 2 yard line, particularly using OD more.
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I agree about OD and about pounding it up the middle never being a strength of the team, but I do believe we have to at least become adequate. Far too many times I watched the team march it down the field and then be unable to punch it in from 3-5 yards out. We won't win as long as we are so porous at pounding it in. So you don't believe we need to draft a bruiser or another C?
 
Ckw5814 said:
So that being the case, what do you think we need to do to perform better in the red zone? If we don't need a big bruiser or a big, powerful C, what do we need to do to have more success on short yardage, "pound it up the middle" plays?
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If Mike Ditka (Bears) can use a big guy like William Perry (6'2, 380 lbs) as FB in goal line situations (he even score 2 rushing TDs and caught a TD pass) why can't Kubiak be innovative similarly?

Duane Brown had played TE before. Let him do that and put Salaam in at LT, for example.
Put Okam in at RG, as another example.
Heck, let Mario run the ball. Do something!
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infantrycak said:
I'd like to see us get more aggressive in the red zone before we get inside the 2 yard line, particularly using OD more.

But most of the best goal line guys have not gotten in because they were running 300 pounders over.

I still want them to take a run at least to find out how much Darren Sproles thinks he is worth. Not sign him no matter what the cost, but explore what he wants.
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Yeah, I've seen some pretty nifty calls from other teams between the 20 and the 7 yd line.

I don't think we necessarily need a guy that can run over a 300-lb lineman, but we certainly can use one who can bang it with a 250-lb LB and win a yard or two with the right angle.

I haven't seen much of Sproles, but surely we can look at guys like that, or maybe one of them guys in GB.
 
76Texan said:
Yeah, I've seen some pretty nifty calls from other teams between the 20 and the 7 yd line.

I don't think we necessarily need a guy that can run over a 300-lb lineman, but we certainly can use one who can bang it with a 250-lb LB and win a yard or two with the right angle.

I haven't seen much of Sproles, but surely we can look at guys like that, or maybe one of them guys in GB.
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I love watching Sproles and what he can do. However, I don't see that Sproles really helps our running game because he is just another finnese runner sort of like Slaton. Now I know that Slaton can bang and dish out some abuse and take it. He isn't totally finnesse, but I think the Texans need to pair a good banger with Slaton. A guy like Barber who can pound the rock and bruise defenses.

Chris Wells would be absolutely wonderful, but he'll be picked up way before we get our pick for another RB.
 
PHAROAH said:
Slaton is very comparable to Westbrook but Slaton reminds me of Tony Dorsett but Westbrook is a great comparison and I hope he grows into marshall faulk #2
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I don't see Dorsett at all when I watch SS. Dorsett looked like a gazelle running. SS and Westbrook look like they have Fred Flintstone legs. Just hauling ass.

infantrycak said:
Look at Denver's two C's--285 lbs and 286 lbs. Myers' size is fine for the system, but the system isn't set up for straight ahead power short yardage plays and he gets overpowered when trying to play heads up. When he can get moving on the zone plays he does much better. On those short yardage situations I think the problem has been more the OL and less the RB. I am not a fan of the bigger is better theory to RB's. The best TD scorers in history have mainly been Emmitt Smith sized guys. Instead of the battering ram approach, I think the play calling needs to look to the edges and corner more.
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I see the edges and corners open ALL the time in short yardage situations. Some TE help and WR blocks would let a fast back just about walk in on heavy play sets.

76Texan said:
Yeah, I've seen some pretty nifty calls from other teams between the 20 and the 7 yd line.

I don't think we necessarily need a guy that can run over a 300-lb lineman, but we certainly can use one who can bang it with a 250-lb LB and win a yard or two with the right angle.

I haven't seen much of Sproles, but surely we can look at guys like that, or maybe one of them guys in GB.
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What are the chances of cloning #34? THAT would be one HELLUVA 1-2 punch. I wish we could've gotten Jacob Hester last year. He was one helluva bruiser at LSU and is all heart. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if we traded for him. Not gonna happen, but I like the idea.
 
76Texan said:
Yeah, I've seen some pretty nifty calls from other teams between the 20 and the 7 yd line.

I don't think we necessarily need a guy that can run over a 300-lb lineman, but we certainly can use one who can bang it with a 250-lb LB and win a yard or two with the right angle.

I haven't seen much of Sproles, but surely we can look at guys like that, or maybe one of them guys in GB.
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Sproles is gonna make a chunk of cash in the off season. Look at Denver, or any team needing a speedy RB/KR. He would fit very well in the one-cut system.
 
This may sound crazy, ridiculous and stupid....but.....


I'd have liked to have seen Vontay get the ball more when all we needed was a yard or two...

I don't want us to go out and get a "Big back" unless he moves well like a Brandon Jacobs or Larry Johnson otherwise he may as well be a fullback...
 
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Polo said:
This may sound crazy, ridiculous and stupid....but.....


I'd have liked to see Vontay get the ball more when all we needed was a yard or two...

I don't want us to go out and get a "Big back" unless he moves well like a Brandon Jacobs or Larry Johnson...
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He just isnt a natural running the ball. He is a blocker, 1st and formost.
 
BigBull17 said:
He just isnt a natural running the ball. He is a blocker, 1st and formost.
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I've heard talk of folks wanting to put Duane Brown in the backfield...I've even hear Frank Okam on the O-line..people have made references to "the Fridge"...

Is Vontay Carrying the ball to get us a yard or two really that unatural?

Hell, they throw passes to him all the time...

If the only thing between the goalline and vontay is a linebacker I like our chances...I think he could easily move piles in short yardage situations...
 
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Polo said:
I've heard talk of folks wanting to put Duane Brown in the backfield...I've even hear Frank Okam on the O-line..people have made references to "the Fridge"...

Is Vontay Carrying the ball to get us a yard or two really that unatural?

Hell, they throw passes to him all the time...

If the only thing between the goalline and vontay is a linebacker I like our chances...I think he could easily move piles in short yardage situations...
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When he has the ball, he doesnt look all that comfortable. Another thing is if he has the ball, you dont have him blocking. He is such a great blocker, its hard to justify him not leading it up in the hole.
 
Polo said:
This may sound crazy, ridiculous and stupid....but.....


I'd have liked to have seen Vontay get the ball more when all we needed was a yard or two...
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They tried it out in Oakland and it worked. I suspect we will see more of it next year.
 
Leach can't create space so you have to give him a hole or you have to hope he runs over a 300+ guy so I don't suspect he will get many touches...In the little I saw him run the ball I don't see any particular running skills.
 
Vinny said:
Leach can't create space so you have to give him a hole or you have to hope he runs over a 300+ guy so I don't suspect he will get many touches...In the little I saw him run the ball I don't see any particular running skills.
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Well he only had 1 carry and it worked, but generally agreed. It is the big back fallacy taken to its extreme. Goal line is tight work. You need a RB with great vision for the seams and ability to work in tight spaces. The big back theory basically relies on the OL to clear everyone but the LB and then have the RB win that match up.

I still bet we see it happen a few times next year.
 
infantrycak said:
Well he only had 1 carry and it worked, but generally agreed. It is the big back fallacy taken to its extreme. Goal line is tight work. You need a RB with great vision for the seams and ability to work in tight spaces. The big back theory basically relies on the OL to clear everyone but the LB and then have the RB win that match up.

I still bet we see it happen a few times next year.
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I agree with your base premise completely and perhaps we will see a few touches next season but I would bet money we don't see him run the ball any more than Lo Neal or other guard-like (old school fb's are just micro-Guards) fullbacks across the league.
 
My point in suggesting Leach is that I don't want the Texans to go out and get a big bruiser back that may not move that well.

If on a given play our strategy is going to be to pound it straight ahead I'd rather just give the ball to Vontay.

I'd rather our back-up RB be someone that is more functional.
 
I think next year we use Vonta the same as we did this year, blocking mostly and some catching out of the backfield. He's shown he can do both. Let's get another back in the mid rounds in the draft.

I think as far as 2008 is concerned, we probably should have run Vonta a bit more in short yardage situations, but it's not the ideal thing to do with him if we can get ourselves a decent heavy back to compliment Slaton.
 
infantrycak said:
I'm not sure pound it up the middle plays will ever be a strength with this system. Denver had similar woes. Looking at Slaton's splits though, 6 of his 9 TD's came on downs with 0-2 yards to go for a first down. Certainly we got stuffed at times, but we poked some in as well. I'd like to see us get more aggressive in the red zone before we get inside the 2 yard line, particularly using OD more.
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Hey dude you never answered my question. I greatly respect your opinion but can't see how you don't seem to view a big "pounder" at RB or a C as needs. Do you think we are fine with our current line? What do you propose we do other than simply trying to dump the ball off to OD more?
 
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