bah007
Hall of Fame
You will get no disagreement from me.
Sage is worse than Carr in clutch moments.
Yea I said it...
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the "Sage" thread
- Thread starter gg no re
- Start date
You will get no disagreement from me.
Sage is worse than Carr in clutch moments.
Yea I said it...
The 6-4 Dolphins?
Mari-OWNED!
Bucco Bruce
It was 4th and long and Andre made an absolutely amazing catch.
Most cases in that situation the game is over. AJ bailed Schaub out big time on that drive. He doesn't make that catch and we are still winless going into the Lions game.
Guys seriously, you bash me for an opinion I have and for the most part it has changed. Schaub and Rosenfels both suck IMO. But if anything you guys are riding on Schaub's jockstrap way too much.
ReliantTexan
Waterboy
Who have a very stout defense with one of the best pass rushers in the game. That's them.
ReliantTexan
Waterboy
And if Schaub doesn't run it in to the endzone on the 4th down ,and make the pass to Walter we're still winless heading into the lions game.
Mari-OWNED!
Bucco Bruce
Your logic is flawed. None of that happens if AJ does not make that catch.
If what you're trying to get me to say is that Schaub is better in that situation then I'll say it. I would rather have Schaub make that final drive today. But if you're trying to get me to say Schaub is a good NFL quarterback and that I am content with him as the starter for the Texans, well don't hold your breath!
I'll say it AGAIN. Schaub and Rosenfels both suck.
Please don't bash me for my OPINIONS.
gg no re
iggnorent
Let's not forget that for some really really strange unexplained reason, we've held a sword over their heads for the last few years.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
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J-Russ
Veteran
Umm.. when talking about Schaub clutch moments, you guys are over-looking the Jags game, where He and the offense marched down the field and got the game-tying FG. If we had gotten the ball first in OT we've won the game, no doubt IMO.
I think Schaub might of had some clutch moments in 07, I don't really remember. Bottom line when comparing the two QBs in critical moments, Schaub is head and shoulders above Sage, and it's no contest IMO.
I think Schaub might of had some clutch moments in 07, I don't really remember. Bottom line when comparing the two QBs in critical moments, Schaub is head and shoulders above Sage, and it's no contest IMO.
gg no re
iggnorent
now that's a roller coaster I want to get on!
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
I do not, nor have I ever advocated the use of drugs, but I want some of whatever it is that YOU'RE smoking? It must be fan freakin' tastic!
J-Russ
Veteran
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Some people believe that football is a matter of life and death. I do not subscribe to this theory. It's far more important than that.
Seriously though people say a lot of stuff about worthless sacks of crap who need to die right now in hot steaming pools of lava like Sage Rosenfels following another game-losing turnover. It's not all that serious and shouldn't be taken so.
And remember, Winning isn't everything. It's the ONLY thing.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Just like Heidi Fleiss.
Ditto
Where are all of the people who wanted to keep Sage when Minny offered us a 3rd rd.pick. I haven't heard anyone say I was wrong.
I believe in the sell high buy low theory.
Where are the start Sage people. It appears Kubes knew what he was doing.
We will win 5-6 games depending how long MS is out
I'd take an empty bag of rocks ....
Sage needs to go .... Schaub cant stay on the field and isnt much better , the team has a lot of other holes but might have to really think about taking a QB early in April .... /wrist
utahmark
markbeth
i think your missing one. he turned somebody's career around, for one season at least. the year before he came to us. forgot the guys name.
GlassHalfFull
Hall of Fame
Sage must be deep in debt to Vegas bookies. There is no other explanation for it.
Unless we were defending him. Thats enough time to score twice against our gang of ******* we call a defense.
Thats alot better of a defense than we faced yesterday. The Colts have 2 pass rushers, thats about it. They're awful.
It seems like most of them go strait to a guy in opposing colors thats standing there wide open waiting for the ball. Id love to defend him, but when he throws a pick, there isnt a Texan in the same zip code.
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Hooston Texan
Rookie
Well, I wouldn't say that the Colt who made the pick was wide open--he was being covered by two other Colts who would have made the interception had he not been able to.
Our QBs make turnovers, in large part, because we don't yet have the OL we need to run Kube's system. Our scheme is predicated on attacking the intermediate zones--from the Jacksonville game until halftime in Minnesota, ours was the best down-field passing attack in the league. But that system requires the OL to keep the QB clean for a longer time to give the routes an opportunity to develop. While our OL certainly is better than the rep it got when Carr was the QB, I don't think anyone believes it is a team strength.
Schaub's biggest weakness right now is his feel for the pass rush. Most of his interceptions have been correctible mistakes (the misread against Miami, the two fourth-down heaves against the Titans and the injury-induced underthrow to the Vikes); the fumbles are what concern me. He has to develop a feel for the pass rush, and he's not there yet. Sage is better at this than Schaub, but I'd say this is the only facet of his game that is superior.
Our QBs make turnovers, in large part, because we don't yet have the OL we need to run Kube's system. Our scheme is predicated on attacking the intermediate zones--from the Jacksonville game until halftime in Minnesota, ours was the best down-field passing attack in the league. But that system requires the OL to keep the QB clean for a longer time to give the routes an opportunity to develop. While our OL certainly is better than the rep it got when Carr was the QB, I don't think anyone believes it is a team strength.
Schaub's biggest weakness right now is his feel for the pass rush. Most of his interceptions have been correctible mistakes (the misread against Miami, the two fourth-down heaves against the Titans and the injury-induced underthrow to the Vikes); the fumbles are what concern me. He has to develop a feel for the pass rush, and he's not there yet. Sage is better at this than Schaub, but I'd say this is the only facet of his game that is superior.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I'd argue that some of the reason our QB's make turnovers is because the defense sucks. Because the defense can't stop ANYTHING, our QB's are forced to do more than a) they're capable of (Sage, nothing more than a career back-up) and b) a guy in only his 2nd full season (Schaub). Ryan and Flacco aside, you don't find a QB to step up this early too often.
The defense makes a stop on a 3rd and long and Sage isn't in a position to throw the game ending turnover. Instead the Texans are running the ball eating up clock.
We can jump on all the turnovers the QB's make, but even with that, this is still the best offense we've ever had here. They've scored 27 points or more in 6 of their 10 games, they average 370 yards a game, I mean this is the best offensively we've had it.
31, 28, 41, 38, 31, 30, 28, 33....when your defense is giving up numbers like that on a consistent basis, you're making your offense have to do even more than they already are. Maybe trying to force something at times because they know they've GOT to score to stay in the game.
I don't know. It's a freaking mess and I just don't get why Smith gets to play it out 'til the end of the season. I don't know if firing him right now would make any difference with their play or not, but not firing him is sapping whatever morale is left on the team and with the fans, and to me, just tells everyone that losing is still acceptable here.
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
no this is the best post ever...
Also what about the lack of turnovers our defense forces. When is the last time our Qb has had a short field? makes a huge difference. (see JJ punt return)
The Colts ran 80 plays with no turn over or sack. Is that even possible? Has it ever happened before?
bckey
All Pro
Where are all the Sage fans that said that the Texans should not trade Sage last offseason? Probably here bitchin that the Texans haven't cut him yet. Sage was one of the main reasons the Texans got to an 8-8 record last season. He has a turnover monkey on his back right now that started with the Indy game. He is still a good backup. Nothing more. He kept us in the Indy game right up until the last series when everyone knew it was going to be all pass plays. It changes everything when the defense knows that you have to pass on every down.
I knew when they started that drive that Sage would probably turn the ball over because the pressure was all on his shoulders plus he had to hurry and that is when he does really dumb things. He should at least spiked the ball after the 1st down instead of running up and throwing an int. That is why he will never be a starter in the NFL. Maybe if we would have had some timeouts left and like Dale pointed out some time was stolen by the refs then the pressure would have been a little less and the outcome may have been different. Don't know.
One thing I do know is our defense is horrible. I saw a post by Herv that showed our points allowed and it was embarrassing. Here are our points allowed by game: Steelers 38, Titans 31, Jaguars 30, Colts 31, Dolphins 28, Lions 21, Bengals 6, Vikings 28, Ravens 41, Colts 33. That is a killer in the NFL. The Texans have to score 25 + points a game just to have a chance to win. How Richard Smith is still employed by the Texans is a head scratcher.
I'm not one to call for heads during the season but in this case it makes plenty of sense. See what Bush can do the remainder of the season. If he shows any sign of improving this defense then consider him for dc next year. If not you know you need to hire from the outside. But finishing the season with Smith is just hurting the defense.
I knew when they started that drive that Sage would probably turn the ball over because the pressure was all on his shoulders plus he had to hurry and that is when he does really dumb things. He should at least spiked the ball after the 1st down instead of running up and throwing an int. That is why he will never be a starter in the NFL. Maybe if we would have had some timeouts left and like Dale pointed out some time was stolen by the refs then the pressure would have been a little less and the outcome may have been different. Don't know.
One thing I do know is our defense is horrible. I saw a post by Herv that showed our points allowed and it was embarrassing. Here are our points allowed by game: Steelers 38, Titans 31, Jaguars 30, Colts 31, Dolphins 28, Lions 21, Bengals 6, Vikings 28, Ravens 41, Colts 33. That is a killer in the NFL. The Texans have to score 25 + points a game just to have a chance to win. How Richard Smith is still employed by the Texans is a head scratcher.
I'm not one to call for heads during the season but in this case it makes plenty of sense. See what Bush can do the remainder of the season. If he shows any sign of improving this defense then consider him for dc next year. If not you know you need to hire from the outside. But finishing the season with Smith is just hurting the defense.
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I won't bash you. You're right! Both QB's suck! One is sickly and the other is a turn-over machine. Why didn't we get in the Favre sweepstakes? We're just as good as the Jets were before Favre. Think how this season would have gone had our front office pursued a "real" QB.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I pretty much agree with everything you said in regards to the defense and how their play affects the turnovers from the QBs but the more I think about this one against the Colts the more I think what a missed opportunity it was for Rosenfels. Fate gave him a chance to make up for that collapse the last time we played this team. Was the situation ideal? No but he had a chance to cover for the defense, which was great the first game vs Indy, and he just gives the game away again. Personally I wasn't expecting a TD on that drive, I thought pick or fumble would end the game, but I was rooting for him and he just did what he always does.
I have been one calling for equal competition between Sage and Matt but, I just can't defend Sage's poor judgement late in games so far this year. At the same time, we all seem to forget that it was Sage who led this team to several victories last year and our ONLY victory in history over the Colts. IMO, as I've stated many times, we appear to have 2 good backup QB's as neither has distinguished themselves as clear cut starters for the Texans or any team. And I definitely agree that many are "riding on Schaub's jockstrap way too much" and I would add Kubiak's jockstrap to that, too.
At this point, I don't think Kubiak or Smith know the answer but, I just don't have the confidence that either Matt or Sage will ever be the answer as the starter for us. I sure wish we could've taken Kevin Kolb in the draft though. Now, it appears to me that we're gonna have to draft a QB high or trade some of our little talent to get a real starter and not a career backup.
drewmar74
disgruntled
Donovan McNabb might be available. Say what you want, but you can't deny that he'd be an instant upgrade over what we have now.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/
As the City of Philadelphia buzzes with Eagles fans who hope that quarterback Donovan McNabb has only six games remaining in his career with the team, were told that the Eagles would save a nice chunk of change and cap space if they pull the plug on McNabb after the season.
With a 2009 base salary of $9.2 million and a remaining bonus proration of $1.16 million, dumping McNabb would create more than $8 million in 2009 cap space.
Carrying the $1.16 million in dead money would be no big deal for the Eagles, especially since they pushed more than $10 million of 2008 cap surplus into 2009 via a phony eight-figure LTBE incentive given to fullback/defensive tackle/fullback/defensive tackle/fullback Dan Klecko.
In all, McNabb is signed through 2013. His salaries after next season are $10 million, $12.07 million, $14.1 million, and $16.2 million.
There is no bonus proration remaining on the deal after 2009.
Trading McNabb is a longshot, absent a significant restructuring of his deal.
And so, in an offseason in which an unprecedented number of quarterbacks with significant name recognition might be available, McNabb could be one of the most prominent players looking for a new home.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/
As the City of Philadelphia buzzes with Eagles fans who hope that quarterback Donovan McNabb has only six games remaining in his career with the team, were told that the Eagles would save a nice chunk of change and cap space if they pull the plug on McNabb after the season.
With a 2009 base salary of $9.2 million and a remaining bonus proration of $1.16 million, dumping McNabb would create more than $8 million in 2009 cap space.
Carrying the $1.16 million in dead money would be no big deal for the Eagles, especially since they pushed more than $10 million of 2008 cap surplus into 2009 via a phony eight-figure LTBE incentive given to fullback/defensive tackle/fullback/defensive tackle/fullback Dan Klecko.
In all, McNabb is signed through 2013. His salaries after next season are $10 million, $12.07 million, $14.1 million, and $16.2 million.
There is no bonus proration remaining on the deal after 2009.
Trading McNabb is a longshot, absent a significant restructuring of his deal.
And so, in an offseason in which an unprecedented number of quarterbacks with significant name recognition might be available, McNabb could be one of the most prominent players looking for a new home.
Yes, McNabb would be an upgrade ........ heck, Culpepper looks like an upgrade right now!
drewmar74
disgruntled
As long as we don't get into an OT situation, McNabb would be rockin'.
drewmar74
disgruntled
Fire Kubiak.
Sign Schottenheimer.
Bring in McNabb. He'd have the receivers he has NEVER had in Philly...
Wow.
We can only dream.....
Instead we'll sign Brad Johnson or the Broncos 3rd team QB and everybody will talk about what a genius Smith is for saving our cap money.
Problem is, I just can't figure out what we're saving our cap money for every year??
drewmar74
disgruntled
I'm still drinking the kool-aid and getting ready for some Martyball! McNabb to AJ, baby!!!!!
WOOOOHHOOOOO!
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Gee, I want whatever quarterback that can be assured of putting up over 33 points every single week.
Rosenfels and Schaub for that matter are relatively inexperienced QBs. People don't want to judge them on those terms because they see inexperienced QBs succeeding. Of course a lot of them have better running games and/or defenses that they are working with.
I don't know whether either of these guys are The Guy, but lots of teams have all over the place QB play, though typically not in Rosenchappa terms. It's hard to find good QBs.
But what I do think is that no QB can succeed with the Texans defense. None. That D is awful. It kills me to be yelling when it is third and long and seeing the other team convert it like it is nothing. And knowing goal line stands are a miracle if they happen.
Rosenfels and Schaub for that matter are relatively inexperienced QBs. People don't want to judge them on those terms because they see inexperienced QBs succeeding. Of course a lot of them have better running games and/or defenses that they are working with.
I don't know whether either of these guys are The Guy, but lots of teams have all over the place QB play, though typically not in Rosenchappa terms. It's hard to find good QBs.
But what I do think is that no QB can succeed with the Texans defense. None. That D is awful. It kills me to be yelling when it is third and long and seeing the other team convert it like it is nothing. And knowing goal line stands are a miracle if they happen.
drewmar74
disgruntled
shhhhh
you're ruining my angry, overreacting phase
We've got to address the D but the QB's have got to stop upchucking the ball. We've got the O, no doubt, but those two MAJOR things have to stop.
Wow, what a newsflash...
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Do you think that they would have to play a throwing style offense if the Texans defense was even halfway marginal instead of nearly half a decade repulsive?
It is amazing that the Texans were even in that last game given that they had so few opportunities to have the ball.
They are so often playing from behind and pressing because they have to.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
yup, then he leaves the exact year Denver brings in their QB of the future and the Kubiak-less Broncos score a hit with Cutler.
The more and more I think about it, the more I think Kubiak sucks but it doesn't matter. Barring a winless remainder of a season to end at 3-13, I don't see any scenario where Kubiak is fired after the season. I think he will be on the veritable hot seat next year, no doubt, but I just think Uncle Bob is too stubborn and doesn't like to admit his mistakes so easily. He likes to wait until the whole outhouse is up in flames before doing anything (see Carr, Casserley, Richard Smith) Smith should have been fired this past offseason and pretty much anyone could have told you that on this board if they were given a truth serum. It just shows a lack of being proactive and showing that you arent going to settle for 2nd or 3rd or even 4th best when it comes to your core coaching staff.
We need to go out and find the BEST DC candidate that money can buy. Spare no expense. Leave no stone unturned. Just get someone who actually has a pair and who can actually disguise coverages and make in-game/halftime adjustments. Smith gets outcoached on a weekly basis....its just freaking pathetic. rant/thread hijack over.
back on topic, Sage really failed and pretty much ended his dreams of a big $$ starting job in the NFL. I feel bad for the guy because he seems like a good guy and does try to make plays. He just needs to realize he aint Brett Favre and he doesn't have the type of defense behind him to 'fly' by the seat of his pants. I wouldn't be surprised is Sage and Schaub are gone this offseason. Sage isn't the answer and Schaub is too brittle to be given $20million+ guaranteed.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
The strange thing is, with the exception of Brister (who started all of 4 games for Denver), every one of those guys has a lower interception per pass attempt percentage while playing under Kubiak than for their career as a whole (and yes - that includes Schaub, Rosenfels and Carr), every one of them except Griese has a higher completion percentage playing under Kubiak than for their career as a whole, and all 5 of them have better TD/Interception ratios playing under Kubiak than for their career as a whole.
You left out Plummer, who was also significantly better in all three of those categories during his time under Kubiak than for his career as a whole. Under Kubes, his interception per attempt percentage was 2.66 while it was 4.14 for the "Non-Kubiak" portion of his career, and his TD/Interception ratio was 1.76 under Kubes (60 TD's and 34 Int's) and it was 0.8 for the remainder of his career (101 TD's and 127 Int's).
I'm not saying any of these guys are headed for the hall of fame, or this years Pro Bowl, I'm just saying all of them (including those he's coached as head coach) have performed better in all these statistical categories under Kubiak than for their career as a whole.
drewmar74
disgruntled
You know, I'd like to think that they'd run more but I've seen them come out of the gate throwing so much that I'm just not sure any more.
I agree that they're pressing in Q4 most of the time because the D has given up so many points. But we are pretty pass happy all the time, not just at the end of the game (Indy game notwithstanding).
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
*raining on Drewmar's angry, overreacting phase*
First, did you see McScabb this past weekend against the Natti? 3 INT's, and a lost fumble. Again, that was against Cincy...
Second, AJ would be wasted playing Marty Ball. Might as well trade AJ away for the big bruising backs that he liked in Cleveland. I respect the guy as a coach, but how quickly people forget how boring an ultimately ineffective his style is (in the play-offs). He can get a team there, but they won't do anything...
I'm just looking forward to the rest of the season during "Sage Thyme"
drewmar74
disgruntled
*raining on Drewmar's angry, overreacting phase*
First, did you see McScabb this past weekend against the Natti? 3 INT's, and a lost fumble. Again, that was against Cincy...
Second, AJ would be wasted playing Marty Ball. Might as well trade AJ away for the big bruising backs that he liked in Cleveland. I respect the guy as a coach, but how quickly people forget how boring an ultimately ineffective his style is (in the play-offs). He can get a team there, but they won't do anything...
I'm just looking forward to the rest of the season during "Sage Thyme"
McNabb suffers because there is no running game. Heck, the Iggles may be the only team that runs less than we do. And I still think he poses an upgrade over Matt or Sage. Long term answer - no.
And I am acutely aware of the long term implications of Martyball. You hire Marty and keep him for two seasons. He'll build your base. Make you competitive. THEN you bring in someone else to get you over the hump.
But you have to have some level of respectability before you'll get a premium coach. I think Marty could get us to that point.
Dude, I've got this all figured out. Maybe I should call Bobby Mac this morning and rattle his cage about it.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
McNabb suffers because there is no running game. Heck, the Iggles may be the only team that runs less than we do. And I still think he poses an upgrade over Matt or Sage. Long term answer - no.
And I am acutely aware of the long term implications of Martyball. You hire Marty and keep him for two seasons. He'll build your base. Make you competitive. THEN you bring in someone else to get you over the hump.
But you have to have some level of respectability before you'll get a premium coach. I think Marty could get us to that point.
Dude, I've got this all figured out. Maybe I should call Bobby Mac this morning and rattle his cage about it.
LMAO at calling "Bobby Mac"....
Shoot, if you fire Kubiak, hire Marty for two years and then hire Norv Turner
, that will be 4 coaches in 10 years... Me no likey...
drewmar74
disgruntled
LMAO at calling "Bobby Mac"....
Shoot, if you fire Kubiak, hire Marty for two years and then hire Norv Turner
Want me to ring him up right now?
Hey, no one said ANYTHING about Norv Turner! That's all you......
J-Russ
Veteran
I would love to have D-Nab, but isn't there a rumor that said he wants to play in his hometown of Chicago?
Now Reid on the other hand.... Theres speculation that he could be fired if they finish last and out of the playoffs again. How bout we pick up Reid and demote Kubiak to OC... The guy is a proven winner at 50 years old, that is two years younger then Kubiak.
Out of 9 seasons(exclude current) the guy only had two losing season, one at his rookie HCing year and the other coming from the year after the superbowl lost. You could blame that on the superbowl curse and the madden curse to McNabb. So essentially, the guy only losing year came from his rookie HC year. He only had one 8-8 year, with the others finishing with 10+ wins.
Like McNair said, if they could upgrade at the coaching position, he would do it. This off-season could be the perfect opportunity to do so.
Now Reid on the other hand.... Theres speculation that he could be fired if they finish last and out of the playoffs again. How bout we pick up Reid and demote Kubiak to OC... The guy is a proven winner at 50 years old, that is two years younger then Kubiak.
Out of 9 seasons(exclude current) the guy only had two losing season, one at his rookie HCing year and the other coming from the year after the superbowl lost. You could blame that on the superbowl curse and the madden curse to McNabb
. So essentially, the guy only losing year came from his rookie HC year. He only had one 8-8 year, with the others finishing with 10+ wins.Like McNair said, if they could upgrade at the coaching position, he would do it. This off-season could be the perfect opportunity to do so.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Heck yeah ring him up... I may have a thing or 15 to say to him...
I figured you were going for the San Diego scheme. Marty----> Norv...
I would do it in a heartbeat, but it wont happen if Kubiak stays. He would give us a face and have, hopfully, love and support he never had.