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Can we talk about the big fat elephant in the room for a second...

B

BullNation4Life

All Pro
What the hell is up with the run defense this year? Are they missing Demeco that badly? It doesn't seem as consistent and it did last season...

This maybe in another thread and I didn't feel like searching, but damn!

I mean this guy >:koolaid:< could run through some of the holes Johnson ran through today...
 
Kubiak...
(on if he’s worried about the run defense, especially after Titans RB Chris Johnson’s breakout game today) “They had a lot of yards at the end of the game too. I don’t know statistically how it comes out. You also have to go back and look at what took place before that last drive when they were running all the draws and we were in that situation. One of the good things is we have had some leads. If we’ve got some leads and people are going to commit to running the football it’s a good thing for our team. You have to look at how the game is going, what you’re trying to do to win, and all I know is we are playing darn good defense. There are always some things you can do better, and obviously that is one of them. We could run the ball better, too. I didn’t like the way we ran today.”
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http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...ek-4-win/2074f864-cef0-4af1-8c04-e5c071f04e92
 
BullNation4Life said:
What the hell is up with the run defense this year? ...
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Does it matter that the Titans preferred to get some meaningless yards on the ground once the game was in hand? They ran for over 100 yards in the 2nd half when the game was already in hand for the Texans. The Titans were afraid to pass. When Watt & Co. weren't dismantling their QBs, the Texans secondary were posing in the end zone. The run defense was and has been a non-issue.
 
Before the game thsi week we were ranked 5th in overall run defense.
We were allowing 67 yards per game (5th)
We had forced 4 fumbles (1st)
We had allowed zero touchdowns (1st)
We were giving up 3.8 yards per carry (10th)

CJ1K racked up a bunch of meaningless stats in garbage time. What exactly are we worried about?
And what do you mean about consistency? This was the first "big" game we've had against us on the ground all year
 
There's certainly room for improvement on this front but aren't we being a little overly dramatic? Elephant in the room, really? There might be something in the room but it sure ain't an elephant. At least you didn't go with "Houston, we have a problem."
 
Went through the play by play
1st Quarter - 4 runs for 21 yards (5.25 avg , long of 13)
2nd Quarter - 6 runs for 37 yards (6.16 avg, long of 19)
3rd Quarter - 7 runs for 28 yards (4.0 avg, long of 9)
4th Quarter - 8 runs for 55 yards (6.8 avg, long of 15)

So Johnson got over a third of his yards in the 4th quarter, basically garbage time.

Now, also remember that Locker went down early in the first, so the D had to switch from scheming against a running QB to a pure pocket passer, which meant fewer players in the box.
 
I'm not too too worried, as they buckle down when they need to...but on a few of those good runs early on by Johnson, the Texans front was plain beat and walled off...not sure what to think there because they've actually looked good in the other games (against Mia, Bush was doing a helluva job more than Texans a bad one, today CJSUKs just had to hit one hole and veer outside)...
 
Stemp said:
Went through the play by play
1st Quarter - 4 runs for 21 yards (5.25 avg , long of 13)
2nd Quarter - 6 runs for 37 yards (6.16 avg, long of 19)
3rd Quarter - 7 runs for 28 yards (4.0 avg, long of 9)
4th Quarter - 8 runs for 55 yards (6.8 avg, long of 15)

So Johnson got over a third of his yards in the 4th quarter, basically garbage time.

Now, also remember that Locker went down early in the first, so the D had to switch from scheming against a running QB to a pure pocket passer, which meant fewer players in the box.
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No need to discredit the Tacks, CJ looked good (second time in a year and half?) and their o-line opened up some holes for him. I never felt like we were being gashed and the bottom line is 38-14.
 
I think the OP is on to something relevant. Chris Johnson didn't get all of his yards in garbage time, and the run defense is not where it was last year. That was apparent in the Dolphins game. I think that Demeco's presence is missed. Not as much for his physical ability, but for his football intelligence.
 
Brisco_County said:
I think the OP is on to something relevant. Chris Johnson didn't get all of his yards in garbage time, and the run defense is not where it was last year. That was apparent in the Dolphins game. I think that Demeco's presence is missed. Not as much for his physical ability, but for his football intelligence.
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We gave up 79 yards against the Dolphins. They averaged 4.2 yards per carry. We gave up 0 touchdowns. We forced 2 (3?) fumbles.


In 2011 our rushing defense gave up 96 yards per game. Other teams averaged 4.1 yards per carry. We gave up 8 TDs (0.5 per game). We forced 8 fumbles (0.5 per game).

So not to be rude, but what are you talking about? Our run defense was nearly identical to 2011. In fact, we were arguably better in many respects.

By the way, the Dolphins are averaging 178 yards per game against teams not named the Texans. So yeah, holding them to 79 is pretty damn good.
 
i think its because we run a 3-4 D and are still not doing our jobs it could also be personal lets face it Dobbins is not a wolrd class ILB and i like cody but hes deff not the COg Runn stopper that forces DOuble teams and everythinf outside

and thoes are the two guys up the middle soooo its got to be on them losing Sharpton was pretty big IMO if he was here our run stop would be better
 
When you win a game 38-14 that includes one garbage TD as part of that 14....then IMO you have little to worry about on that front.

Your defense is stout and one of the best, if not the best in football. As I said elsewhere, just stay healthy.
 
DX-TEX said:
LOTS of CJ's yards came in basically garbage time. I dont believe he was over a 100 until then. Wade also pulled most of our defensive starters the last couple series.
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He had 58 at halftime. Thats not a bad half's work for any RB .... and the score was close enough that they could still run at that time.

Anything after 28-7 .... I'll concede as garbage time. But they did run effectively in the first half.

Concerned ? Not really but as Kubiak said , there are always things you can do better.
 
gtexan02 said:
We gave up 79 yards against the Dolphins. They averaged 4.2 yards per carry. We gave up 0 touchdowns. We forced 2 (3?) fumbles.


In 2011 our rushing defense gave up 96 yards per game. Other teams averaged 4.1 yards per carry. We gave up 8 TDs (0.5 per game). We forced 8 fumbles (0.5 per game).

So not to be rude, but what are you talking about? Our run defense was nearly identical to 2011. In fact, we were arguably better in many respects.

By the way, the Dolphins are averaging 178 yards per game against teams not named the Texans. So yeah, holding them to 79 is pretty damn good.
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I saw running lanes being imposed on consecutive downs that were concerning, especially by a team that hasn't been able to run the ball until they got to Houston. If the numbers indicate that there's nothing to worry about, then I welcome being proven wrong.
 
Brisco_County said:
I saw running lanes being imposed on consecutive downs that were concerning, especially by a team that hasn't been able to run the ball until they got to Houston. If the numbers indicate that there's nothing to worry about, then I welcome being proven wrong.
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Today I agree. We gave up a lot of yards on the ground to a team that hasn't shown anything this season. Anything.

But the Miami game was blown out of proportion. They have a very good running team this season. They put up 90 on the Cardinals who have an excellent defense as well, and that was with Bush at half speed
 
So they had 86 yards on 17 carries through 3 quarters (that's over 5YPC) and most everyone is just brushing it off like no big deal? OK, it's not a big deal, I get that. But it's a potential pitfall. How many yards total did Foster rack up, by the way?
 
Brandon420tx said:
58 yards in one half isn't exactly gashing a team
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No , its not gashing a team but it is effective rushing .... which keeps a defense off balance and can lead to big plays off of play action.

The Texans had 51 rushing yards at the half .... (went back over the play by play on NFL.com).
 
eriadoc said:
So they had 86 yards on 17 carries through 3 quarters (that's over 5YPC) and most everyone is just brushing it off like no big deal? OK, it's not a big deal, I get that. But it's a potential pitfall. How many yards total did Foster rack up, by the way?
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It was 1 GAME! We've played run defense well for 3 weeks and wehave one subpar game in that regard in a blowout and people are trying to make a big deal about it. No team is going to be great against the run every single game. If the Jets or Packers gouge us for big yards we'll be concerned, but for now, expect the coaches to clean it up.
 
Stemp said:
It was 1 GAME! We've played run defense well for 3 weeks and wehave one subpar game in that regard in a blowout and people are trying to make a big deal about it. No team is going to be good against the run every single game. If someone the Jets or Packers gouge us for big yards we'll be concerned, but for now, expect the coaches to clean it up.
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Well, I don't know what "people" are trying to do, but since you quoted my post, I'll redirect you to the relevant section that you must have overlooked:

OK, it's not a big deal, I get that. But it's a potential pitfall.
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eriadoc said:
Well, I don't know what "people" are trying to do, but since you quoted my post, I'll redirect you to the relevant section that you must have overlooked:
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Everything is a potential pitfall.

- Potential Injuries
- Running yards (less than 100 for the game)
- Lack of catches for AJ (only 4 for 56)
- Lack of production by other WR (3 for 27)

I don't see why people want to look at downside of things.
 
Stemp said:
Everything is a potential pitfall.

- Potential Injuries
- Running yards (less than 100 for the game)
- Lack of catches for AJ (only 4 for 56)
- Lack of production by other WR (3 for 27)

I don't see why people want to look at downside of things.
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We have no reason to worry about injuries yet, because they haven't been cropping up. When they do, there will be plenty of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We have no reason to worry about AJ, because he's been making explosive plays when they've targeted him. They haven't needed to target him more, so there's no cause for concern yet. The next time he trips over a yard marker, the concern will crop up.

We have no reason to be concerned about the production of the other WRs, aside from a couple drops from Keshawn Martin, because they haven't presented as symptoms yet. On balance, the #2 WR (OD) has been doing well, the #3WR (KW) has been doing well, and no one worries about the #4 or lower WR, for the most part.

Now, let's talk about actual symptoms that have cropped up -- the running game on both sides of the ball. It's been a problem. It hasn't cost a game yet, but it's been a problem. So it's a small problem, and not a big deal yet. But it's there, unlike the other issues you mention.

I trust you can tell the difference.
 
I look at the yards per attempt...and that is what worries me. You have to consider that we had them playing from behind the entire game, and we also won the time of possession war. So even though the total rushing yards that CJ got in the first three quarters was not huge, if you consider his yards per attempt.. it is actually pretty scary numbers.

I am not worried about it yet though. Last week the Titans won their game because of big plays, and I have a feeling that we came into this game with the mindset on defense that we had to prevent the big play. So stopping CJ from running the ball wasnt really at the top of our "to do list". I mean the guy was averaging 2 yards per carry before this week... not exactly their biggest threat.

So im hoping that the issue was simply that we were more interested in preventing them from chunking us, than running it. But it is definitely something that im gonna be keeping a close eye on from now on. Since week 1 ive felt that stopping the run was our defense's biggest weakness this year. If we go up against a team that can go toe-to-toe with us offensively.. and we find ourselves in a shootout...thats when im gonna be more interested in seeing what our defense can do to stop the run.


Im very wary of the next two weeks... Jets and Packers, and I dont want to jinx it by looking too far ahead.. BUT... I feel like our next BIG challenge is gonna be week 7 against the Ravens. That is a team that is capable on both sides of the ball just like us. And Ray Rice is definitely no slouch at RB. We could see ourselves in a situation where stopping the run is tantamount to staying in the game.
 
I share the OP's concern. Even last season, if I had to pick a weakness of the Texans D, I would say they can be ran on up the middle. Now that Demeco is gone, they have gotten even worse. I even thinking Cushing is not playing as well as he did last season.

Our best defense against the run is actually our offense. Our offense has gotten into big leads so early, it has forced teams to abandon the run. In the Titans case, they didn't abandon it and ended up rushing over 100 yards.

I'm actually quite surprised we've been winning these games so easily. We haven't been running the ball all that well, and haven't been stopping the run all that well. Does that just show how good this team is? Not everything is clicking right now, but still dominating teams.
 
DeMeco was very, very instinctive in the middle here for years and we were a little spoiled when it comes to middle linebacker play. Ryans would diagnose a play and get to the back much sooner than anyone we have in the middle now...I see it. Cushing isn't nearly as clean to the correct gap as Ryans was in his prime...he never will be either, but this isn't criticism of him as much as it is praise for Ryans. We played well without him last year too though -we rally to the ball really well. We overcome less instinctive MLB play with great team speed.
 
Rush defense definitely needs to improve. We have some premier rushers coming up on this schedule.

Ray Rice
Matt Forte
MJD
Ridley
AP
 
We were in 3 safety sets most of the game, not even talking 4th quarter. We protected the outside and didn't respect their ability to run up the gut at all, I just watch the game on NFL rewind and that's what I took out of it. Even though we were giving them the gaps inside of the DE's they were not taking them at all as often as they should have.
 
SteveSlaton20 said:
not that worry about the run game, but i'd take demeco back for bradie james in a heart beat.
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x2


I'd say the NT is the biggest issue stopping the run. Looked like Cody and Mitchell were getting flat out blown off the ball. Perhaps it is the mindset Wade prefers, to get upfield that allows some penetration from the offense? The numbers don't really match the feel of the game, save about 2 runs the Texans were never really getting hurt by Chris Johnson. The laughable attempt to appease fantasy football owners in the 4th was just embarrassing. They couldn't even run REAL running plays against a 2nd team defense.
 
Thorn said:
I'm more worried about OUR run game than the other guys.
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I didn't want to be the one to say it, but yeah, me too. Foster was averaging 4.9 YPC in 2010...now he's down to 3.7. I'm just not seeing those breakout runs anymore.
 
Saw the thread title and was like, my ex wife posts on TT?

Anyways, as has been said, CJ got a lot of yards in garbage time. I also think our 3rd down run defense is pretty good which to me is most important. Sure we might give up a couple of big runs but when it's time to stop the run, we do.
 
I'm more worried about our run offense than our run defense TBH. We've won 3 of our 4 games by 20 or more points. And to me the running game has been below par IMO, with all stats aside.
 
Honestly, its hard to worry about much when you have beaten 3 of 4 opponents by 20+ pts. Once we were up 2 scores I don't think we paid much attention to CJ. If they wanted to run the ball I was good with it. They didn't break off a 40 yard run, they didn't move the ball in chunks and they had quite a few TFL when they ran the ball. If they were running the ball for 4 or 5 yards EVERY time then I would be worried. They only converted on 4-12 (33%) of their third down attempts and two of those were on that last drive in the 4th. That would mean that prior to that drive they were 2 of 10 on 3rd down attempts. I don't care how much you rush for, if you are getting off the field on 3rd down like that then we are good.

I'm a little bit more worried about our running game but when teams are daring us to pass we are passing efficiently. Teams are going to try to take away the run or the pass, they can't take away both. The moment teams start devoting to stop the pass our running game will take off again.

Mike
 
Arian Foster. I got sucked into thinking that his vegan food diet wouldn't be a problem. My instincts told me it would be a problem, but I ignored it and decided that he would have the funds and the connections, and the smarts, to find ways to compensate and stay that same explosive self that he's always been.

But, unfortunately, I don't see the same Foster this year. And don't toss out how the right side of the line is worse. He's not hitting his cutbacks as quickly, he's not bursting through the gaps like he did last year, and he is a liability on short distances on 3rd downs. He just doesn't appear to be the same.

Now, granted, he still is getting TDs. He's still getting 80 to 100 yards every game. He looks like he's 90%, which is still really good. But nobody can sit here with a straight face and say he looks JUST like the guy he has been the past few years.

I'm still a fan, and I know somebody is going to quote me and take me out of context on it. But for those who have comprehension skills, you can see that I'm only saying that he doesn't look the same. Still a fan, not hating, thinking that he's at 90% of his old self, but he could be better if he'd drop the vegan stuff.
 
GP said:
Arian Foster. I got sucked into thinking that his vegan food diet wouldn't be a problem. My instincts told me it would be a problem, but I ignored it and decided that he would have the funds and the connections, and the smarts, to find ways to compensate and stay that same explosive self that he's always been.

But, unfortunately, I don't see the same Foster this year. And don't toss out how the right side of the line is worse. He's not hitting his cutbacks as quickly, he's not bursting through the gaps like he did last year, and he is a liability on short distances on 3rd downs. He just doesn't appear to be the same.

Now, granted, he still is getting TDs. He's still getting 80 to 100 yards every game. He looks like he's 90%, which is still really good. But nobody can sit here with a straight face and say he looks JUST like the guy he has been the past few years.

I'm still a fan, and I know somebody is going to quote me and take me out of context on it. But for those who have comprehension skills, you can see that I'm only saying that he doesn't look the same. Still a fan, not hating, thinking that he's at 90% of his old self, but he could be better if he'd drop the vegan stuff.
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I actually think you were closer to the truth when you mentioned the changes on the O-line. Arian is not getting the same holes to hit that allow him to get to the second level and make people miss. We are seeing Foster slow through the line due to poor blocking and at times it looks like the entire line gets stuffed.

On the runs where Foster got to the second level on touched he danced and made people miss just like last year. Winston was huge in run blocking and he is missed in that regard.

Diet... It is just fuel for the body like Foster said. He is still taking in all his carbs, proteins, etc. he is just not eating for entertainment like most people in the States do now days.
 
GP said:
Arian Foster. I got sucked into thinking that his vegan food diet wouldn't be a problem. My instincts told me it would be a problem, but I ignored it and decided that he would have the funds and the connections, and the smarts, to find ways to compensate and stay that same explosive self that he's always been.

But, unfortunately, I don't see the same Foster this year. And don't toss out how the right side of the line is worse. He's not hitting his cutbacks as quickly, he's not bursting through the gaps like he did last year, and he is a liability on short distances on 3rd downs. He just doesn't appear to be the same.

Now, granted, he still is getting TDs. He's still getting 80 to 100 yards every game. He looks like he's 90%, which is still really good. But nobody can sit here with a straight face and say he looks JUST like the guy he has been the past few years.

I'm still a fan, and I know somebody is going to quote me and take me out of context on it. But for those who have comprehension skills, you can see that I'm only saying that he doesn't look the same. Still a fan, not hating, thinking that he's at 90% of his old self, but he could be better if he'd drop the vegan stuff.
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I doubt the vegan diet has anything to do with it. Ben Tate isn't quite as explosive, IMO, as he was last year. I do think the changes in the offensive line are a major reason why the running game is suffering. Teams still have to respect it, but it's not operating at the level it was the last two seasons. But we're 4-0 and as the season goes on I think the running game will figure itself out.
 
Thorn said:
I'm more worried about OUR run game than the other guys.
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OK let's talk about that as well, is it me, and it could be just me, but does it seem like Foster is going down way to easy on arm tackles this year? It seems like anybody hits him in the leg or swipes at him, he is going down.

last year it seemed he ran through allot of those arm tackles.

I know I may seem nit picking, and I am because they are playing that damn good right now. It maybe the artist in me noticing these little details.

Just seems different this year, Good, very, very good, just different...
 
GP said:
Arian Foster. I got sucked into thinking that his vegan food diet wouldn't be a problem. My instincts told me it would be a problem, but I ignored it and decided that he would have the funds and the connections, and the smarts, to find ways to compensate and stay that same explosive self that he's always been.

But, unfortunately, I don't see the same Foster this year. And don't toss out how the right side of the line is worse. He's not hitting his cutbacks as quickly, he's not bursting through the gaps like he did last year, and he is a liability on short distances on 3rd downs. He just doesn't appear to be the same.

Now, granted, he still is getting TDs. He's still getting 80 to 100 yards every game. He looks like he's 90%, which is still really good. But nobody can sit here with a straight face and say he looks JUST like the guy he has been the past few years.

I'm still a fan, and I know somebody is going to quote me and take me out of context on it. But for those who have comprehension skills, you can see that I'm only saying that he doesn't look the same. Still a fan, not hating, thinking that he's at 90% of his old self, but he could be better if he'd drop the vegan stuff.
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lol my bad, replied about the same thing before I read through. You are right about the fact Foster looks different. He doesn't look explosive like he has, he looks slow hitting the hole. He seems to go down with any arm tackle, where last year he ran right through them.

Something is different, weather it is diet, contract or whatever, but something is defiantly different...
 
BullNation4Life said:
OK let's talk about that as well, is it me, and it could be just me, but does it seem like Foster is going down way to easy on arm tackles this year? It seems like anybody hits him in the leg or swipes at him, he is going down.

last year it seemed he ran through allot of those arm tackles.

I know I may seem nit picking, and I am because they are playing that damn good right now. It maybe the artist in me noticing these little details.

Just seems different this year, Good, very, very good, just different...
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Stopping the Texan run game has to be the #1 priority for any DC game plan to accompany with his OC picking @ the weakest part of Texan defense, stopping the run. It is very possible for instance against the Jets it will be a ground & pound game very low scoring affair?
 
Texanmike02 said:
If they were running the ball for 4 or 5 yards EVERY time then I would be worried.
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Well, if you take the 4th quarter out of the equation, CJ averaged 5 yards a carry. He never had a huge breakout run, like you mention, so that pretty well means he actually was getting about that per run through the first three quarters.

That said, I think worry is too strong a word for this thread. We're just considering possible problems.
 
I'm concerned about the run on both sides of the ball. Right now, we've played a relatively easy schedule. Not horribly bad teams, but teams we certainly should beat sans Denver.

What happens against a team like Baltimore when you need to stop the run and be able to run and grind out a win against a physical team? Remains to be seen.

My two least favorite moves that the Texans made were Ryans and Winston. In neither case, was the player a FA. They may have been cap moves, but I truly think much of the problem is directly attributed to these losses. I'm concerned on both sides but certainly not panicking.

I know this is picking nits. This team has multiple ways to carve you up on offense, and on D JJ Watt is literally a one man wrecking crew... and the secondary is clearly the best we have ever had in the 10 years of this team, so all in all I still think they are a 12-14 win team given the 4-0 start....but to go all the way we need to get the running game in gear and be able to grind out close wins. It's almost like we need a couple of grind it out close games for some practice. Right now, nobody seems to be able to even challenge them. :kitten:
 
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