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McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
McNair keeps yapping and McClain keeps writing it down.

When the lockout ends and the NFL resumes business as usual, McNair said the Texans will be active in free agency.


"We're prepared for the draft and free agency," he said. "If free agency happens tomorrow, we know who we have an interest in. We've zeroed in on what we think our needs are, and we know who the people are who can help. We're ready to move. We haven't slacked off one bit.


"If there's a veteran player out there who can really help our team, we'll go after them, but we're not going to pay more than we think they're worth. We're not going to do something we think is crazy.


"It's more important to us to keep that core group of players together, so a lot of that money is used to re-sign our players. We also want to pick up additional players as we can, but most of our dollars go to keeping our players as they come up."
Yeah, we wouldn't want to see anything crazy. Like keeping a coach and GM (and "core group") who've done squat for 5 years. Or playing the youngest set of CBs in NFL history. I could be much more confident about the Texans chances in 2011 if McNair would just shut his pie hole.
 

buddyboy

Rookie
McNair keeps yapping and McClain keeps writing it down.


Yeah, we wouldn't want to see anything crazy. Like keeping a coach and GM (and "core group") who've done squat for 5 years. Or playing the youngest set of CBs in NFL history. I could be much more confident about the Texans chances in 2011 if McNair would just shut his pie hole.
I'd be more concerned if McNair came out and said, "you know what, we really NEED to get just about anyone. We are desperate to get that big name FA."

Bye bye leverage. Anyway, it's lose lose for anyone in the Texans' FO right now, fans are going to twist words to fit their criticisms regardless of what they say.
 

Wolf6151

All Pro
I have to agree with Lucky on this one "We're not going to do something we think is crazy", yea because what you've been doing for the last 5 yrs. is working so well and that core group of players is doing so well they've earned 1 winning season going 9-7. It's scary that McNair really thinks they're on the right track and doing things the right way.
 
I'd be more concerned if McNair came out and said, "you know what, we really NEED to get just about anyone. We are desperate to get that big name FA."

Bye bye leverage. Anyway, it's lose lose for anyone in the Texans' FO right now, fans are going to twist words to fit their criticisms regardless of what they say.
Leverage only matters when it is used. This has nothing to do with leverage and has everything to do with the team's philosophy. They're simply not going to go out and throw money at players. McNair says it himself; he'll spend money on his own players and "build through the draft."

Be prepared for the Texans to bring in a second rate CB to pair with Kareem Jackson. That is what McNair is telling you is going to happen.
 
I have to agree with Lucky on this one "We're not going to do something we think is crazy", yea because what you've been doing for the last 5 yrs. is working so well and that core group of players is doing so well they've earned 1 winning season going 9-7. It's scary that McNair really thinks they're on the right track and doing things the right way.
It's not that his philosophy is flawed. There are some great teams that do it this way. The problem the Texans have is that building through the draft only works when you're good at drafting. They're not.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
we're not going to pay more than we think they're worth
Goodbye Aso, it was nice to dream. If you're not willing to pay top 3 $ to a top 3 guy, another team surely will. Bob, maybe YOU think top-tier free agents aren't worth the investment, but then you've never been to the playoffs either.
 

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
Goodbye Aso, it was nice to dream. If you're not willing to pay top 3 $ to a top 3 guy, another team surely will. Bob, maybe YOU think top-tier free agents aren't worth the investment, but then you've never been to the playoffs either.
Yep. The exact translation word for word.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
McNair keeps yapping and McClain keeps writing it down.


Yeah, we wouldn't want to see anything crazy. Like keeping a coach and GM (and "core group") who've done squat for 5 years. Or playing the youngest set of CBs in NFL history. I could be much more confident about the Texans chances in 2011 if McNair would just shut his pie hole.
Word!

I said the same awhile back. This guy just sounds like he wants to keep tooting the mediocre horn. "We are going to hold back money to keep the core group of guys who have done nothing. More years for everyone...players and coached. Good guys yah! Cheers."
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
please go **** yourself, McNair. just continue doing what you do best, being an abysmal failure and a bad owner.

it has worked out so well to date. at least you have great fans like 'Joe Texan' who don't really care how much you suck, as long as you keep rolling out crap they will keep buying it....but rest assured, most of your good fans aren't as naive as those type of fans.

At the end fo the day, your franchise is a joke and you are committed to one thing. $$$$$. so please spare us the dog and pony show. the day you decided to keep not just Rick or Gary, but both...told me all I needed to know about you. You are a pile of crap and I hope you go away and take this pathetic franchise with you. You will not be missed.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
This is a ridiculous thread. I get it. You aren't happy with the losing. Still, though, why does that mean fans are justified in taking every quote out of context and using it as another jumping off point for a ***** session?

He said they aren't going to radically overpay for a free agent. This is a problem for someone? If it is, go enjoy the Washington Redskins organization. Some of you same board members were outraged that we "overpaid" for Antonio Smith. The Texans thought he was worth the money, outbid the rest of the NFL for him and he has been highly productive.

This year's free agency crop is the strongest group of players, particularly on defense, in five or more years. Prudently but actively spending money in free agency this season will be highly beneficial. And, that is what he is saying they are going to do. The Texans are consistently in the top third of the league in payroll. It is the winning that has been a problem, not the willingness to utilize financial resources. The past few free agent markets have been abysmal. For instance, the two best available CBs in FA last year were: Dunta Robinson and Leigh Bodden. Did you really want the Texans to spend the money it took to get those guys?

Perhaps you would prefer them to return to the overspending philosophy under Casserly?

Todd Wade
Zac Weigert
Robaire Smith
Seth Payne
Gary walker... all getting ridiculous contracts... yep, that worked out real well.
 

Hardcore Texan

Magnet Man
This is a ridiculous thread. I get it. You aren't happy with the losing. Still, though, why does that mean fans are justified in taking every quote out of context and using it as another jumping off point for a ***** session?

He said they aren't going to radically overpay for a free agent. This is a problem for someone? If it is, go enjoy the Washington Redskins organization. Some of you same board members were outraged that we "overpaid" for Antonio Smith. The Texans thought he was worth the money, outbid the rest of the NFL for him and he has been highly productive.

This year's free agency crop is the strongest group of players, particularly on defense, in five or more years. Prudently but actively spending money in free agency this season will be highly beneficial. And, that is what he is saying they are going to do. The Texans are consistently in the top third of the league in payroll. It is the winning that has been a problem, not the willingness to utilize financial resources. The past few free agent markets have been abysmal. For instance, the two best available CBs in FA last year were: Dunta Robinson and Leigh Bodden. Did you really want the Texans to spend the money it took to get those guys?

Perhaps you would prefer them to return to the overspending philosophy under Casserly?

Todd Wade
Zac Weigert
Robaire Smith
Seth Payne
Gary walker... all getting ridiculous contracts... yep, that worked out real well.
Please don't bring logic and reason into this......just grab a pitchfork and join in!
 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
This is a ridiculous thread. I get it. You aren't happy with the losing. Still, though, why does that mean fans are justified in taking every quote out of context and using it as another jumping off point for a ***** session?

He said they aren't going to radically overpay for a free agent. This is a problem for someone? If it is, go enjoy the Washington Redskins organization. Some of you same board members were outraged that we "overpaid" for Antonio Smith. The Texans thought he was worth the money, outbid the rest of the NFL for him and he has been highly productive.

This year's free agency crop is the strongest group of players, particularly on defense, in five or more years. Prudently but actively spending money in free agency this season will be highly beneficial. And, that is what he is saying they are going to do. The Texans are consistently in the top third of the league in payroll. It is the winning that has been a problem, not the willingness to utilize financial resources. The past few free agent markets have been abysmal. For instance, the two best available CBs in FA last year were: Dunta Robinson and Leigh Bodden. Did you really want the Texans to spend the money it took to get those guys?

Perhaps you would prefer them to return to the overspending philosophy under Casserly?

Todd Wade
Zac Weigert
Robaire Smith
Seth Payne
Gary walker... all getting ridiculous contracts... yep, that worked out real well.
Agreed. But what I think everyone is upset about is how he said we are not going to overpay anyone more than we think they are worth. Sometimes you have to overpay to land who you want and make that sacrifice in order to help the team in a desperate area. He also says we are not going to do anything that they think is crazy. It very well may take a crazy amount to land a top FA CB this year. So I can see both sides.
 

jaayteetx

All Pro
please go **** yourself, McNair. just continue doing what you do best, being an abysmal failure and a bad owner.

it has worked out so well to date. at least you have great fans like 'Joe Texan' who don't really care how much you suck, as long as you keep rolling out crap they will keep buying it....but rest assured, most of your good fans aren't as naive as those type of fans.

At the end fo the day, your franchise is a joke and you are committed to one thing. $$$$$. so please spare us the dog and pony show. the day you decided to keep not just Rick or Gary, but both...told me all I needed to know about you. You are a pile of crap and I hope you go away and take this pathetic franchise with you. You will not be missed.
Let me get this straight, you want the owner and his team to go away? And yet you still sport an an avatar supporting said team and post on a message board dedicated to them? Ok, makes sense I suppose.
 
This is a ridiculous thread. I get it. You aren't happy with the losing. Still, though, why does that mean fans are justified in taking every quote out of context and using it as another jumping off point for a ***** session?

He said they aren't going to radically overpay for a free agent. This is a problem for someone? If it is, go enjoy the Washington Redskins organization. Some of you same board members were outraged that we "overpaid" for Antonio Smith. The Texans thought he was worth the money, outbid the rest of the NFL for him and he has been highly productive.

This year's free agency crop is the strongest group of players, particularly on defense, in five or more years. Prudently but actively spending money in free agency this season will be highly beneficial. And, that is what he is saying they are going to do. The Texans are consistently in the top third of the league in payroll. It is the winning that has been a problem, not the willingness to utilize financial resources. The past few free agent markets have been abysmal. For instance, the two best available CBs in FA last year were: Dunta Robinson and Leigh Bodden. Did you really want the Texans to spend the money it took to get those guys?

Perhaps you would prefer them to return to the overspending philosophy under Casserly?

Todd Wade
Zac Weigert
Robaire Smith
Seth Payne
Gary walker... all getting ridiculous contracts... yep, that worked out real well.
Dale, we already know that you are perfectly fine with 6-10 as long as we rack up stats. What you fail to understand is that McNair has not earned the benefit of the doubt from his fans, and so every single thing that comes out of his mouth is questioned - with good reason.

This teams track record gives fans a basis on which to form opinions. And that's why, when people read McNair's quotes, they jump to conclusions. He has not given us any other reason not to.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Dale, we already know that you are perfectly fine with 6-10 as long as we rack up stats. What you fail to understand is that McNair has not earned the benefit of the doubt from his fans, and so every single thing that comes out of his mouth is questioned - with good reason.

This teams track record gives fans a basis on which to form opinions. And that's why, when people read McNair's quotes, they jump to conclusions. He has not given us any other reason not to.
Sure they have given us reason to doubt but not to lose all reason. Who are the most successful franchises around? - maybe Pittsburgh and New England, maybe throw in Indy. Do any of them go crazy in free agency? Do any of them overpay for players, even their own? No. I certainly want the Texans to be players in the free agent market when/if it happens but these remarks do not reflect a bad, aberrant or cheap philosophy.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
This is a ridiculous thread. I get it. You aren't happy with the losing. Still, though, why does that mean fans are justified in taking every quote out of context and using it as another jumping off point for a ***** session?

He said they aren't going to radically overpay for a free agent. This is a problem for someone? If it is, go enjoy the Washington Redskins organization. Some of you same board members were outraged that we "overpaid" for Antonio Smith. The Texans thought he was worth the money, outbid the rest of the NFL for him and he has been highly productive.

This year's free agency crop is the strongest group of players, particularly on defense, in five or more years. Prudently but actively spending money in free agency this season will be highly beneficial. And, that is what he is saying they are going to do. The Texans are consistently in the top third of the league in payroll. It is the winning that has been a problem, not the willingness to utilize financial resources. The past few free agent markets have been abysmal. For instance, the two best available CBs in FA last year were: Dunta Robinson and Leigh Bodden. Did you really want the Texans to spend the money it took to get those guys?

Perhaps you would prefer them to return to the overspending philosophy under Casserly?

Todd Wade
Zac Weigert
Robaire Smith
Seth Payne
Gary walker... all getting ridiculous contracts... yep, that worked out real well.
Why is it ridiculous? It isn't a pitchfork mentality. It is a frustration with an owner who doesn't seem to get it. You can point out, as Cak did, that there are teams that play it smartly and win but they also have used this philiosophy successfully and won and they have coaches, GMs and people in place to make it work. A philosophy is only as good as the people creating and executing it. So far the creators and executors of the Texans version have been a massive fail. Coach, GM, owner....stay the course. That is a fail.

Where was the failure last year? Defense. Who is on the market? Top player at his position. There is a difference between throwing money at the 5 mediocre players you named and going after a top guy. Why do you think The 49ers and Cowboys went after Deion...it brought another championship. Balancing money to keep guys who aren't getting it done and to fill in with "nice" FAs isn't something that has worked here so far. It is that simple. So until their version works, there is ample reason for people to wonder why they don't go and get a stud. That is sound logic. Become a winner. Try something else since in 9 years your way hasn't worked.

Overall what he is saying sounds prudent and nice but in reality is same story, different day. Running a post up offense is a nice philosophy unless you are running it with guys under 5'10.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Where was the failure last year? Defense. Who is on the market? Top player at his position. There is a difference between throwing money at the 5 mediocre players you named and going after a top guy. Why do you think The 49ers and Cowboys went after Deion...it brought another championship.
The thing is McNair didn't say they would only go after mediocre players and that is the way it is being spun. They may want to pursue Aso but have placed an upper value on him of $15 mil per year. If he wants $22 mil per year then yeah they shouldn't overpay like that. In a capped league there is a price to be paid for over paying. There has to be a cut-off somewhere.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
The thing is McNair didn't say they would only go after mediocre players and that is the way it is being spun. They may want to pursue Aso but have placed an upper value on him of $15 mil per year. If he wants $22 mil per year then yeah they shouldn't overpay like that. In a capped league there is a price to be paid for over paying. There has to be a cut-off somewhere.
I agree in some part. And honestly, I didn't take it as he would only go after mediocre guys....you could get a Cromartie, who would fit, but he is sketchy background wise so I doubt he is here. I was just pointing out to Dale that those 5 guys weren't guys I'd consider top FA or near the top and they overpaid. I think at some point you have to get an instant upgrade and go outside the comfort zone when there are top tier guys that instantly make your weakness and plus. Rare guys.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I agree in some part. And honestly, I didn't take it as he would only go after mediocre guys....you could get a Cromartie, who would fit, but he is sketchy. I was just pointing out to Dale that those 5 guys weren't guys I'd consider top FA or near the top and they overpaid. I think at some point you have to get an instant upgrade and go outside the comfort zone.
I hear you but historical context is important as well. Todd Wade was the top ranked OT FA that off-season. Anthony Weaver was the top DE FA that off-season. I believe Robaire was at the top or near it as well. Antonio Smith was the top or second DE that off-season. You can only sign what is available. Dale's point that on each there were howls of over paying accusations is correct as well. Antonio is the only one who has worked out. That is the bigger issue to me - either they aren't evaluating talent well or aren't utilizing it well or heck both. I think Wade will utilize the talent he is given well and can provide a lot of insight on evaluating D players.

McNair's comments were unseasoned oatmeal to me.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
I hear you but historical context is important as well. Todd Wade was the top ranked OT FA that off-season. Anthony Weaver was the top DE FA that off-season. I believe Robaire was at the top or near it as well. Antonio Smith was the top or second DE that off-season. You can only sign what is available. Dale's point that on each there were howls of over paying accusations is correct as well. Antonio is the only one who has worked out. That is the bigger issue to me - either they aren't evaluating talent well or aren't utilizing it well or heck both. I think Wade will utilize the talent he is given well and can provide a lot of insight on evaluating D players.

McNair's comments were unseasoned oatmeal to me.
That should go well with his Milquetoast breakfast.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
*SIGHS* At this point, The guy could come out & say what everyone wanted to hear & would recieve criticism for it......People taking things out of context just so it will fit their agenda. I know we aren't this dumb as a fan base so this is the only thing it could be.
 
Why would anybody want to overpay for a free agent? Unless I am misunderstanding the definition of "overpay".
Obviously no one is going to disagree with that. No one wants to "overpay" for players. But, there's no objective measurement over what a player is worth and no concrete forecast as to how effective a player will be.

McNair said they will not pay someone more they are worth. Given the Texans' history both in free agency and on the field, there's obviously some justified scrutiny in the front office's ability to evaluate what is "going crazy" and what is making quality and necessary additions to the team, as opposed to someone like the Packers or Colts who seem to be able to make that distinction more effectively.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
*SIGHS* At this point, The guy could come out & say what everyone wanted to hear & would recieve criticism for it......People taking things out of context just so it will fit their agenda. I know we aren't this dumb as a fan base so this is the only thing it could be.
What is dumb about seeing something that is broken and making comments about it when the owner takes a similar stance? It is more ignorant to follow the "right track" mantra without having some questions after 9 years. Bob never really spoke much until this year and so far it has been a bunch of comments that don't inspire greatness....right track, not accepting bad results, thinking about Kubiaks situation despite making up his mind, owners congratulating him for losses, etc, etc. If I follow your mindset then I was dumb to ***** about Carr, Ahman Green, Casserly and Kubiak 2 years ago. So far I don't feel dumb.
 

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying overpay for anyone. I'm saying, show us you are even going to try to get the dude. Heck, everything on paper says he wouldn't want to come here but show us the fans that you are doing whatever you can to try and get someone. Lie to us, do something. Come out and say "hey we called but his agent wouldn't even answer the phone." Show us you couldn't get him and so you then went after Ike Taylor or Weddle or someone.

Instead, all we have seen is Atogwe going to Redskins and this player going there and so on. Nothing on our end.

I know we can't do nothing with all this CBA caca but when FA starts up again, show us you are doing whatever you can to make this team better.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Why would anybody want to overpay for a free agent? Unless I am misunderstanding the definition of "overpay".
Here's Revis' deal:
Revis will sign a four-year contract, GM Mike Tannenbaum announced. He declined to discuss the amount, but a source said it's a $46 million deal, including $32 million in various guarantees.
Link

46 mil/4 yrs = 11.5m/year

If you consider that contracts for a given position go UP over time, and that Aso will likely ask for MORE than Revis, I'd consider the starting point to be 12m/yr.

Now, what if Bob McNair hears from Rick Smith that Aso is only the 3rd-best CB overall and should be paid accordingly. So, the Texans call up Aso and offer 10.5m/yr - 5 years and another team offers 12.5m/yr - 4 years. Is the OTHER team in this scenario overpaying, or are they paying what the market will bear for the services of a TOP corner? What if Aso wants 12.5 to play for the Texans and only 11.75 to play for the Steelers? Would it be stupid to 'up the ante'?

Comparisons to Weaver, Both Smiths & Wade are all a little "off"....Aso has more Pro Bowls than those guys combined...which is ZERO, Aso has 4.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
I'm not saying overpay for anyone. I'm saying, show us you are even going to try to get the dude. Heck, everything on paper says he wouldn't want to come here but show us the fans that you are doing whatever you can to try and get someone. Lie to us, do something. Come out and say "hey we called but his agent wouldn't even answer the phone." Show us you couldn't get him and so you then went after Ike Taylor or Weddle or someone.

Instead, all we have seen is Atogwe going to Redskins and this player going there and so on. Nothing on our end.

I know we can't do nothing with all this CBA caca but when FA starts up again, show us you are doing whatever you can to make this team better.
Right. This is what I was saying to Cak. It is one thing to have a sound philiosophy. On paper, Bob's "right way" mantra and wanting to follow long established teams is admirable. But the matra goes out the door when you keep people who can't make it happen personnel wise..Smith and Kubiak. If they can't target the right people for your money then what good does spending under the budget do. Now if you go hard at a top DB because it makes your secondary a plus instead of a minus, then people can back off because the effort and money are there. The fan mindset right now...and it is probably correct...is that Gary has told Bob that the kids from last year got some experience and seasoning and are ready for the next step with Wade as coach. Fill in some pieces from the draft and smaller FAs and they are right there. Paying for a guy who had a great playoff run or one good season is different than one of the top 2 guys in the league.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Obviously no one is going to disagree with that. No one wants to "overpay" for players. But, there's no objective measurement over what a player is worth and no concrete forecast as to how effective a player will be.

McNair said they will not pay someone more they are worth. Given the Texans' history both in free agency and on the field, there's obviously some justified scrutiny in the front office's ability to evaluate what is "going crazy" and what is making quality and necessary additions to the team, as opposed to someone like the Packers or Colts who seem to be able to make that distinction more effectively.

The problem here though is that people are only looking at this "scrutiny" from 1 vantage point. Most fans read the snippet of what he said & immediately translated it into "they aren't going to go after such & such b/c it cost too much.."..completely justifiable in thinking that. But from McNair's point of view, he's actually on point in saying what he said, given their propensity for spending money on scrubs who largely didn't deserve it. Fans however, don't acknowledge this aspect of it though.

As for the other part of your post, why then do teams fall over themselves trying to sign these big name guys if there is no "concrete forecast" on how effective they will be? If anything, that is the known commodity. Chicago didn't sign peppers to that monsterous contract largely not knowing what he was going to bring to their defense for at least the next 2-3 years. They knew exactly what he was going to bring, which is why they offered him what they did.

& although there isn't an "objective" way to determine what a player is worth, there is an established starting point & all the owners themselves decide indirectly when they sign their stars. We just dealt with this with AJ last year. When he signed his contract he was the highest paid WR in the game or right there with them. Then Miami & Arizona went nuts on Marshall & Fitzgerald's deals & all of a sudden the best WR in the game's contract looks "weak" (for lack of a better term) compared to theirs. The owners have control of these things, but the competitiveness of the league keeps driving things up. The players know this so it's nearly impossible not to overpay a FA unless you stick to your guns &/or draft really well.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What is dumb about seeing something that is broken and making comments about it when the owner takes a similar stance? It is more ignorant to follow the "right track" mantra without having some questions after 9 years. Bob never really spoke much until this year and so far it has been a bunch of comments that don't inspire greatness....right track, not accepting bad results, thinking about Kubiaks situation despite making up his mind, owners congratulating him for losses, etc, etc. If I follow your mindset then I was dumb to ***** about Carr, Ahman Green, Casserly and Kubiak 2 years ago. So far I don't feel dumb.
Dumb in the sense that people OBVIOUSLY knows what the guy means when he make his comments, they're just choosing to ignore it b/c it doesn't go along with their agenda.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
Let me get this straight, you want the owner and his team to go away? And yet you still sport an an avatar supporting said team and post on a message board dedicated to them? Ok, makes sense I suppose.
It's been almost a decade since McNair cashed his first check from me. It's been a little over a year since he cashed his last check from me. This same laissez-faire act last year screwed us, so why not try it again.

In fact, let's keep the same failing regime except let's blow up the while defensive side of things. So you get all the growing pains that go along with changing schemes and personnel without actually changing the real problem, Rick and Gary. But at least the change buys Smithiaknair another year of excuses. And ultimately when they fail we will have Wade step in as 'savior' HC. The same Wade Phillips that was laughed at on this board as Cowboys coach but once he is Texans HC, people will think he is Mother Theresa.

So we have that to lookforward to.
I am a fan but enough is enough. What about AJ who has given his entire career to this franchise? Even Matt. He led potential game winning drives in like 6 or 7 losses. That shows there are inherent problems in the direction and leadership on this team.

Just bringing in a good DC isn't enough. This team has major problems and deficiencies that still have not been identified and addressed. And I don't think they are getting changed anytime soon. If last years pathetic excuse for a season didn't get Smithiak fired, what will?

I like some of the players but I just don't see this team ever doing squat under it's current leadership and direction.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
The thing is McNair didn't say they would only go after mediocre players and that is the way it is being spun. They may want to pursue Aso but have placed an upper value on him of $15 mil per year. If he wants $22 mil per year then yeah they shouldn't overpay like that. In a capped league there is a price to be paid for over paying. There has to be a cut-off somewhere.
But you can overpay for 2nd tier talent like Weaver, Robaire, and Green and overpay with max extension for scrubs like David Carr but when it comes to 'overpaying' for a top tier talent like an Aso, well they can't bring themselves to do that.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
The problem here though is that people are only looking at this "scrutiny" from 1 vantage point. Most fans read the snippet of what he said & immediately translated it into "they aren't going to go after such & such b/c it cost too much.."..completely justifiable in thinking that. But from McNair's point of view, he's actually on point in saying what he said, given their propensity for spending money on scrubs who largely didn't deserve it. Fans however, don't acknowledge this aspect of it though.
I definitely see that PoV, but past performance doesn't guarantee future success (or vice versa). At some point, he has to trust his GM, because Bob isn't a scout. I'd love to see him open the pockets for the closest to a "sure thing" the Texans may EVER see in FA.

Dumb in the sense that people OBVIOUSLY knows what the guy means when he make his comments, they're just choosing to ignore it b/c it doesn't go along with their agenda.
I'm not so sure about that. What exactly is "on the right track" about finishing 6-10 AFTER a 9-7 season? It's obvious that Bob doesn't see this team like the rest of the world sees it. Maybe it's like having a child and you overlook their shortcomings simply because they're "yours".
 

dc_txtech

All Pro
Here's Revis' deal:
Link

46 mil/4 yrs = 11.5m/year

If you consider that contracts for a given position go UP over time, and that Aso will likely ask for MORE than Revis, I'd consider the starting point to be 12m/yr.

Now, what if Bob McNair hears from Rick Smith that Aso is only the 3rd-best CB overall and should be paid accordingly. So, the Texans call up Aso and offer 10.5m/yr - 5 years and another team offers 12.5m/yr - 4 years. Is the OTHER team in this scenario overpaying, or are they paying what the market will bear for the services of a TOP corner? What if Aso wants 12.5 to play for the Texans and only 11.75 to play for the Steelers? Would it be stupid to 'up the ante'?

Comparisons to Weaver, Both Smiths & Wade are all a little "off"....Aso has more Pro Bowls than those guys combined...which is ZERO, Aso has 4.
What another team is offering has no bearing on what we deem his worth to be. If we think he is only worth 10.5 a year then why would we pay him 12.5?

Would you pay 5 bucks for a beer? Sure you would.
Would you pay 6 bucks for a beer? Yeah sure why not
Would you pay 100 dollars for a beer? Probably not

So at some point between 6 and 100 dollars you decide that you are not willing to pay 1 more cent for a beer and that is what the value of that beer is to you.

Same thing applies to football players. Would I pay Aso 10mil a year? In a heartbeat. Would I pay him 20mil a year? Probably not. Where exactly to draw the line is where it gets sticky.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Comparisons to Weaver, Both Smiths & Wade are all a little "off"....Aso has more Pro Bowls than those guys combined...which is ZERO, Aso has 4.
My point was context matters. The Texans at times have gone after and signed the supposedly best free agents available that off-season at their positions. This year sure there is a much more talented pool with guys like Aso at a much higher level. Nonetheless, the Texans have aggressively moved to fill holes within the market place they were presented at times.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
What another team is offering has no bearing on what we deem his worth to be.
...and that's the problem. If what the Texans "value" somebody at is far beneath the going rate, that guy will go elsewhere. If 9 teams are willing to pay more, are the Texans still right? How about 20 teams?

"Overpay" is a relative term. Paying what the market commands can't literally be called "overpaying".
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Dale, we already know that you are perfectly fine with 6-10 as long as we rack up stats. What you fail to understand is that McNair has not earned the benefit of the doubt from his fans, and so every single thing that comes out of his mouth is questioned - with good reason.

This teams track record gives fans a basis on which to form opinions. And that's why, when people read McNair's quotes, they jump to conclusions. He has not given us any other reason not to.

That's ridiculous! Though I probably care less about statistics, from a fan perspective, than anyone you will ever meet.

"every single thing that comes out of his mouth is questioned"-

That's my point. Just have one, whiney thread about how McNair has caused fans so much frustration because the Texans haven't made the playoffs. You guys can all live on that thread and do your Goldilocks impression: this one is too hot, this one is too cold... this one is too hard, this one is too soft... they spend too much, they don't spend enought"... etc, etc, etc...

What McNair said should be applauded. That's the way we should all want the organization to run. The problem has been successful implementation.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Why is it ridiculous? It isn't a pitchfork mentality. It is a frustration with an owner who doesn't seem to get it. You can point out, as Cak did, that there are teams that play it smartly and win but they also have used this philiosophy successfully and won and they have coaches, GMs and people in place to make it work. A philosophy is only as good as the people creating and executing it. So far the creators and executors of the Texans version have been a massive fail. Coach, GM, owner....stay the course. That is a fail.

Where was the failure last year? Defense. Who is on the market? Top player at his position. There is a difference between throwing money at the 5 mediocre players you named and going after a top guy. Why do you think The 49ers and Cowboys went after Deion...it brought another championship. Balancing money to keep guys who aren't getting it done and to fill in with "nice" FAs isn't something that has worked here so far. It is that simple. So until their version works, there is ample reason for people to wonder why they don't go and get a stud. That is sound logic. Become a winner. Try something else since in 9 years your way hasn't worked.

Overall what he is saying sounds prudent and nice but in reality is same story, different day. Running a post up offense is a nice philosophy unless you are running it with guys under 5'10.

As Icak mentioned, the heart of the issue is the quality of the free agent market. This year's market is incredibly strong. The Texans can target the 5th best CB in the market and get someone like Richard Marshall, Ike Taylor, Brent Grimes, or Brandon Carr... all depending on what your scouting department and defensive team covets. That's a flood of talent. The worst thing to do is throw gobs of money at Nnambi and miss an opportunity to get real value. Carr, for instance, is over 4 years younger than Nnambi and will likely accept a contract for half the value. That leaves the Texans money to spend in other areas, also quite stocked with talent.

As I previously mentioned, Bodden and Robinson were the top 2 FAs last season. This season they wouldn't be among the top 10, IMO... The Falcons gave Dunta a $40 million contract last year. This year, they'll likely lose their best CB (Grimes) for less money than they spent on Dunta.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
My point was context matters. The Texans at times have gone after and signed the supposedly best free agents available that off-season at their positions. This year sure there is a much more talented pool with guys like Aso at a much higher level. Nonetheless, the Texans have aggressively moved to fill holes within the market place they were presented at times.
The Texans have never aggressively moved to fill any holes in the market place that they were presented. Just the thought of that is laughable. We're by far one of the worst teams in the at filling holes in free agency. Hell, we've really never done that with quality players other than maybe Kevin Walter. Everyone else has been other team's poor cast offs that had no real demand on the open market or were average run of the mill players.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
As Icak mentioned, the heart of the issue is the quality of the free agent market. This year's market is incredibly strong. The Texans can target the 5th best CB in the market and get someone like Richard Marshall, Ike Taylor, Brent Grimes, or Brandon Carr... all depending on what your scouting department and defensive team covets. That's a flood of talent. The worst thing to do is throw gobs of money at Nnambi and miss an opportunity to get real value. Carr, for instance, is over 4 years younger than Nnambi and will likely accept a contract for half the value. That leaves the Texans money to spend in other areas, also quite stocked with talent.

As I previously mentioned, Bodden and Robinson were the top 2 FAs last season. This season they wouldn't be among the top 10, IMO... The Falcons gave Dunta a $40 million contract last year. This year, they'll likely lose their best CB (Grimes) for less money than they spent on Dunta.
I can't disagree more with the bolded. The second-echelon is what the Texans have always gotten in FA...how's that worked out so far? Improving from last to 25th in pass defense is a net gain of 7 spots, but you still suck at that point.

IMHO - There IS a time to 'pull out the pocketbook' and that's to get a guy who is as good or better than anyone at his position.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
What McNair said should be applauded. That's the way we should all want the organization to run. The problem has been successful implementation.
Why should it get applauded? Just because he's talking out of his ass?? I'll believe this stuff from Mcnair when I see it. He can talk the talk, but until he walks the walk, hearing Mcnair say the stuff he did on those comments was even more funny than when Lane Kiffin did that comical speech when he was first hired as the Raiders HC and no one thought he could be successful. Mcnair has shown nothing in his history to say that he'll be aggressive to compete in free agency to fill needed holes. I'll applaud the guy when he actually does multiple things to make this better, and not in one off season, but in at least two. He's done nothing in 9 seasons thus far, so I won't expect anything from the guy until he shows a pattern that's opposite of what he has done in the past which is to stand pat and build through the draft which has been fail after fail.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Sure they have given us reason to doubt but not to lose all reason. Who are the most successful franchises around? - maybe Pittsburgh and New England, maybe throw in Indy. Do any of them go crazy in free agency? Do any of them overpay for players, even their own? No. I certainly want the Texans to be players in the free agent market when/if it happens but these remarks do not reflect a bad, aberrant or cheap philosophy.
I agree with you that not all reason should be lost. However, when you look at organizations like Pittsburgh, New England and Indy, they tend to have a long and pretty consistent history of making wise choices in their personel from the top down........frugally or otherwise. And with that, they have a reputation that attracts a steady flow of good personel at reasonable prices.

This contrasts, in general, pretty significantly to the Texans' history thus far. Players, especially, are not tearing down the doors to come to this organization.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Why should it get applauded? Just because he's talking out of his ass?? I'll believe this stuff from Mcnair when I see it. He can talk the talk, but until he walks the walk, hearing Mcnair say the stuff he did on those comments was even more funny than when Lane Kiffin did that comical speech when he was first hired as the Raiders HC and no one thought he could be successful. Mcnair has shown nothing in his history to say that he'll be aggressive to compete in free agency to fill needed holes. I'll applaud the guy when he actually does multiple things to make this better, and not in one off season, but in at least two. He's done nothing in 9 seasons thus far, so I won't expect anything from the guy until he shows a pattern that's opposite of what he has done in the past which is to stand pat and build through the draft which has been fail after fail.
He did give us a team again :hurrah:
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
The Texans have never aggressively moved to fill any holes in the market place that they were presented. Just the thought of that is laughable. We're by far one of the worst teams in the at filling holes in free agency. Hell, we've really never done that with quality players other than maybe Kevin Walter. Everyone else has been other team's poor cast offs that had no real demand on the open market or were average run of the mill players.
I get the inevitable frustration of an organization that hasn't been to the playoffs in nine seasons. However, this charge is not accurate, IMO.

1st- When Smith/Kubiak took over the mess in 2006, there was so little talent that everyone knew a major overhaul was in order. Therefore, obviousley the 1st season or two, plugging a hole by spending big on a veteran FA doesn't make a ton of sense.

2nd- let me introduce you to a hole-plugger: Matt Schaub. In your estimation, he isn't a quality player? You don't think he had some demand in the open market?... Also, Antonio Smith was the best defensive player on the team last season and he was a significantly pursued FA before the '09 season.

3rd- Here's what the front office did with limited resources (due to significant cap ramifications from the wasteful spending of Charlie Casserly): Matt Schaub, Vonta Leach, Joel Dreessen, Mike Brisiel, Andre Davis, Rashod Butler... pretty good haul, everything considered, I would think.

4th- Due largely to the CBA situation, the past two seasons' FA market have been putrid. Which is unfortunate, since these were the two seasons the Texans felt a couple FA moves could make the difference for them. They tried to sign Bodden, but he wanted to stay in NE and the Texans didn't think him worth a $25 million contract. They were right, by the way.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Article said:
Owner Bob McNair said the Texans will not make employees take pay reductions or work furloughs unless games are canceled and the team has to refund season-ticket revenue.
Good deal. I was wondering how the Texans were going to handle the lock-out, and I kinda' figured that McNair would take this position. Nice. He's a classy man, and this would not be a good PR move for a very PR sensitive organization. Besides, season ticket sales are still solid, so no need to panic.

As far as the rest of what he said...m'eh, nothing new under the sun. A tiger doesn't change it's stripes, and perpetual mediocrity is...well...perpetual. :wheel:
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Why should it get applauded? Just because he's talking out of his ass?? I'll believe this stuff from Mcnair when I see it. He can talk the talk, but until he walks the walk, hearing Mcnair say the stuff he did on those comments was even more funny than when Lane Kiffin did that comical speech when he was first hired as the Raiders HC and no one thought he could be successful. Mcnair has shown nothing in his history to say that he'll be aggressive to compete in free agency to fill needed holes. I'll applaud the guy when he actually does multiple things to make this better, and not in one off season, but in at least two. He's done nothing in 9 seasons thus far, so I won't expect anything from the guy until he shows a pattern that's opposite of what he has done in the past which is to stand pat and build through the draft which has been fail after fail.
I didn't say to applaud McNair. I said, "what McNair said should be applauded"... I'm defending the philosophy. It is dead on. Feel free to complain about failed implementation of the philosophy all you would like. I'm quite critical of it.

Here is something I wrote in January, from Texans Bull Blog:

Bob McNair loves to oogle the New England Patriots and Pittsburgh Steelers franchise hoping to model the Texans after them. He has been attempting to mimic the stability of those organizations for a decade now. I respect that effort. However, those organizations didn’t just decide to be stable and then succeed with the people and philosophy that happened to be in place at the time. It took years and years of searching for the right combination of coaches, scouts, and front office personnel before everything fell in place for them. For Pittsburgh, their dark years were primarily in the 1950s and 1960s. Since Chuck Knoll arrived, they have had a steady and remarkable run. But, plenty of growing pains and lessons were learned by the Rooneys up to that point. Bob Kraft purchased the New England patriots in 1994. While they had some early success, it took seven years and some good fortune (Bledsoe injury, insane officiating, and an odd family squabble between Parcells and Belichek) before they found their footing. If Kraft would have decided simply to be a stable organization during Pete Carroll’s tenure, would they be the exemplary franchise they are now? Smart money would say “no”. Now, having said that, it is interesting to note that Pete Carroll never had a losing season in his three years in New England. Then, when he was replaced with Belichek after his poorest season (8-8), Belichek led the Pats to a 5-11 year. Then the tide turned.

I am not suggesting that, if McNair wants similar success, that he should fire Kubiak. I’m generally glad that he didn’t. What does bother me is a growing concern that Bob McNair is so focused on emulating the winning organizations that he is missing the larger picture. The NFL is not a paint-by-numbers endeavor. As I am sure Bob McNair understands most of the time, any organization with hundreds of variables (people) is a complex orchestration. Yet, what I fear is happening is that McNair is working from a two dimensional checklist of a few simplistic observations he has made regarding the Patriots and the Steelers:

1. Organizational stability (check)

2. Seldom paying premium for FAs (check)

3. As an owner, don’t get too involved (check)

and now, this new one:

4. 3-4 defense (check?)

I certainly hope his thinking is not this simplistic. However, with the Wade Phillips hiring imminent even though he has not even interviewed yet, one has to wonder. After all, not only has Wade not interviewed, but I don’t think a single candidate has interviewed (saying hello to Marvin Lewis on the telephone does not qualify). I know that McNair also likes Wade because he has been a successful DC and has had 30 years of experience. Still, though, those are simply labels (like a 3-4 defense is) and don’t speak to the how/why Wade is the best choice to run the Texans’ defense in 2011 under Gary Kubiak and with this scouting department bringing him talent and with Rick Smith running football operations (sort of). Perhaps Wade is the best choice. However, how could McNair/Kubiak/Smith possibly have any idea of that if they haven’t been through an exhaustive process, including interviewing other candidates… or, just sitting down and speaking to Wade for 30 minutes.
CONTINUE ARTICLE
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
I can't disagree more with the bolded. The second-echelon is what the Texans have always gotten in FA...how's that worked out so far? Improving from last to 25th in pass defense is a net gain of 7 spots, but you still suck at that point.

IMHO - There IS a time to 'pull out the pocketbook' and that's to get a guy who is as good or better than anyone at his position.
"second echelon"?

This isn't the NBA. Nnambi isn't greater than Brent Grimes + Eric Weddle + Cullen Jenkins, though the cap impact may be similar.

Markets change due to supply. The supply in the free agent market is deep and rich. As I said, the 7th or 8th best CB is better than the top CB in last year's market. What does a single player do for an organization? Well, let's see: how successful have the Raiders been since Nnambi has been on the team?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
*SIGHS* At this point, The guy could come out & say what everyone wanted to hear & would recieve criticism for it......People taking things out of context just so it will fit their agenda. I know we aren't this dumb as a fan base so this is the only thing it could be.
Yeah, he could come out and say, "We won't be outbid for Aso!!"

& we still won't get the man, because he decides he wants to play for NYGiants/NYJets or the Dallas Cowboys for less money... but we'll effectively bid up the price tag.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
McNair said they will not pay someone more they are worth. Given the Texans' history both in free agency and on the field, there's obviously some justified scrutiny in the front office's ability to evaluate what is "going crazy" and what is making quality and necessary additions to the team, as opposed to someone like the Packers or Colts who seem to be able to make that distinction more effectively.
Who did we lose, because we didn't offer enough money?

Who did the Packers or the Colts add, that made a difference?
 
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