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Old 09-12-2010   #1
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Default The double standard of the NFL

When Payaton Manning lines up to take a snap and then he changes the play, how can 4 to eight of his guys be moving at the same time and it not be Illegal motion?
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Old 09-12-2010   #2
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
When Payaton Manning lines up to take a snap and then he changes the play, how can 4 to eight of his guys be moving at the same time and it not be Illegal motion?
I think you can move as much as you want (except OL) as long as the players are set for at least 1 second before the snap.

Then again, I don't have a rule book.
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Old 09-12-2010   #3
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by brakos82 View Post
I think you can move as much as you want (except OL) as long as the players are set for at least 1 second before the snap.

Then again, I don't have a rule book.
Back when I was a kid playing, I was taught that as soon as you put your hand down, you weren't allowed to move or it was a false start. I'd have to check, but I don't know if that rule has changed or if the Colts line is moving before putting their hands down and being "set".
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Old 09-12-2010   #4
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

This has been a pet peeve of mine for years. Peyton often gets fully set, starts his cadence and then backs out and all the sudden people are moving everywhere. We've seen examples where Schaub gets under center and Kevin Walter twitches his heal alignment and it is a false start. Teams should be sending the worst examples into the league each week until the refs do something about it.
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Old 09-12-2010   #5
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

I totally noticed this today and was wondering what the hell was going on and why there wasn't some sort of false start penalty or illegal motion like JT mentioned. The lineman were getting set and doing all sorts of stuff while communicating to one another. How are they able to do this all of the time?
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Old 09-12-2010   #6
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

I do not think they have an explanation. it is illegal motion hands down and gets over looked cause it is the Colts
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Old 09-12-2010   #7
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by brakos82 View Post
I think you can move as much as you want (except OL) as long as the players are set for at least 1 second before the snap.

Then again, I don't have a rule book.


I think your're right about being set for at least a second. There was a penalty on the Colts when one of the players just kept moving without setting and he was penalized.
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Old 09-12-2010   #8
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
I do not think they have an explanation. it is illegal motion hands down and gets over looked cause it is the Colts
This goes back a lot further than the Colts....

I still remember when the Cowboy offensive line would essentially rise in unision and all false start every play and it was never called, despite the fact that it threw the DL's timing off often.

You see the same shifting in many Pat games, Brees/Saints games as well as Steeler games when Big Ben is under center. Its maddening but they let it happen.
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Old 09-12-2010   #9
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

It's more of an old-school thing really... if you watch the Steel Curtain era Steelers, they'll get in a half-crouch stance until just before the ball's snapped, go down into the 3-point stance, and hike the ball. From what I've seen several teams did this back in the 70s and early 80s.
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Old 09-12-2010   #10
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by brakos82 View Post
I think you can move as much as you want (except OL) as long as the players are set for at least 1 second before the snap.

Then again, I don't have a rule book.
The thing I think folks are complaining about here is the opposite - getting set and then moving, not that they move before getting set. I don't care if they mill around aimlessly until there is 1 second, get set and then play. What I don't think is called correctly is when they run up to the line with 30 seconds on the clock, get fully set and all the sudden Manning backs out and the OL is all moving to turn around and listen to him, receivers are running in to talk to him, etc. And they know they aren't supposed to be moving. Notice that the OLmen never lift their hand. It's like this bizarre Colts rule where as long as Manning is barking they can move but any other OL has a guy begin to dip a shoulder and it's false start. Teams need to demand an explanation and if the NFL wants to call that fair then start game planning to do the same thing.
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Old 09-12-2010   #11
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by toronto View Post
This goes back a lot further than the Colts....

I still remember when the Cowboy offensive line would essentially rise in unision and all false start every play and it was never called, despite the fact that it threw the DL's timing off often.

You see the same shifting in many Pat games, Brees/Saints games as well as Steeler games when Big Ben is under center. Its maddening but they let it happen.

Yeah but that Cowboy thing, that was frickin cool.

Not a Cowboy fan but I thought that was sweet. I'd like to see a team do that today but I think it would look stupid if anyone did it but the Cowboys and these Cowboys just don't seem like.... "The Cowboys" to me so maybe it should just stay in the grave.

It was cool though. Did I mention that I thought it was cool?
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Old 09-12-2010   #12
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by toronto View Post
This goes back a lot further than the Colts....

I still remember when the Cowboy offensive line would essentially rise in unision and all false start every play and it was never called, despite the fact that it threw the DL's timing off often.

You see the same shifting in many Pat games, Brees/Saints games as well as Steeler games when Big Ben is under center. Its maddening but they let it happen.
But, see, those guys weren't set. They walked up, leaned over with their hands on their knees or thighs, then stood up in unison and then put their hands down into a "set" position. If a lineman hasn't put his hand on the ground, he can move around but if he puts his hand on the ground, then he's not supposed to be able to move... at least according to my understanding of the rule... and my understanding apparently has some problem.
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Old 09-12-2010   #13
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
But, see, those guys weren't set. They walked up, leaned over with their hands on their knees or thighs, then stood up in unison and then put their hands down into a "set" position. If a lineman hasn't put his hand on the ground, he can move around but if he puts his hand on the ground, then he's not supposed to be able to move... at least according to my understanding of the rule... and my understanding apparently has some problem.
I recall Texas Tech started doing this a few years ago. They never set their hand on the ground which allowed them to swivel and move prior to the snap. It was very frustrating to watch, but legal in NCAA ball.
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Old 09-13-2010   #14
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I totally noticed this today and was wondering what the hell was going on and why there wasn't some sort of false start penalty or illegal motion like JT mentioned. The lineman were getting set and doing all sorts of stuff while communicating to one another. How are they able to do this all of the time?
The main thing is you can simulate the snap, but their linemen are jerking around and constantly moving. It is 100% a double standard. I hate that they let him do this cause its him.
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Old 09-13-2010   #15
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

When the QB calls set, and the OL put their hands down, then it's set. Until that happens the OL can move all day long.
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Old 09-13-2010   #16
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

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Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
When the QB calls set, and the OL put their hands down, then it's set. Until that happens the OL can move all day long.
The QB does not have to say set. The player only has to become set and the Colts constantly set and then come out.

Here are the rules:

Quote:
# No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.

# No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started.
Here's another rule the Colt's routinely violate:

Quote:
# After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.
Watch and see how often everyone, particularly Manning, are not set for a full second after he pulls the chicken dance.
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Old 09-13-2010   #17
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

# No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.

# No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started.

A lot of times the Colts never assume a three-point stance, only a two-point stance. But the second item covers that. Maybe the argument is the manner in which they are listening to his highness doesn't lead the defense to believe snap has started. I say B.S. to that. The next time one of those goobers takes a two point set and then turns his head toward Peyton the defensive line needs to blast him into last week. The defense can say "hey, led me to believe snap had started. The rule is about my belief, not if it is reasonable."

Maybe after getting blasted about 20 times and penalized 100 yards they would stop. I think some D Coordinator needs to man up and force the officials hand on this. If the guy was set, even in a two-point stance and then moves, no way they should call the penalty on the defense so hit the man and force them to call something.
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Old 09-13-2010   #18
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

I want to thank yall for all the responses, This has been a Pet Peeve of mine beeing Payaton Manning is considered the best that there ever was. Don't get me wrong I know he is genuis, I just think he has had an edge that teeters on the side of Cheating and because it is him he gets away with it. I will guarantee that if Matt steps up to the line and says ''BLUE 42' while the lineman place thier hands on thier knees, then Matt runs up to the line yelling ""hey Eric, Knock Freeny out of then play" and all the line and Andre and Jacoby and Arian start moving around to pretend to hear what Matt is saying, It would result in a False Start and The Colts do this 60 time a game and do not get a call.
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Old 09-13-2010   #19
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

Manning has always been the type of players to flirt with the line in order to exploit the rules to his advantage.

He's great, no doubt about it. But its a tough line to draw between innovative and exploitation. Sometimes I think Manning lies on the exploitation side a little too often.
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Old 09-13-2010   #20
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Default Re: The double standard of the NFL

jeez. this has nothing to do with Manning. the Bucs did this all the time under Gruden, too. the rules are clear.

also, the Colts always had a TON of false start penalties called against them thanks to Tarik Glenn.
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