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Old 09-08-2008   #1
Historyhorn
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Default This Game Changed Things For Me

I've been a Texans fan since day 1. Got season tickets as soon as I could (year 3). I won't quit on this franchise and will continue to be there and be loud.

But this week's game against the Steelers changed things for me.

1) Kubes is now on the hot seat in my book. The honeymoon is over. He'd shown us improvement in each of the last two years and appeared to have us heading toward not only the playoffs but greater things beyond. I still think he's a good coach, but to have his team come out in the season opener and get prison gang raped is simply inexcusable. There are teams with far less talent than ours that wouldn't have gotten embarrassed that badly. The gameplan sucked, our execution sucked, & the team seemed lost out there. That rests squarely on the head man & Kubes is that guy. I'm not calling for him to get fired, but I'm saying the honeymoon is over. The proof better be in the pudding from now on.

2) Our defense is not improving in spite of the investment of significant draft picks on the D-line. Mario is a beast, but everyone else except for Ryans has underperformed. Not all of that is the current regime's fault, but many of the faults were glaring (secondary help) and went unaddressed by this regime.

3) Our fan base needs to become more demanding. It's time to move on from being just glad to have football back in H-town. We've got to continue to support, but begin to demand results.

4) Before the season began, I thought the Colts might be vulnerable in the division and the Texans just might be able to sneak up and take the division crown. After watching them against the Bears, they are vulnerable, but we aren't the team that can take the crown. I thought for sure we'd pass Tennessee this year, but that appears to be a pipe dream too. 8-8 looks like a hell of year for a team with our holes. We're not one or two years away....more like 3-4. That's frustrating for a fan base that has already had 6 years of suffering.

Go Texans
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Old 09-08-2008   #2
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

Agreed. BTW, I post on shaggybevo and hornfans as Iconoclast Texan. If we continue to have the same problems through the end of the season, we should turn this program over to a proven winner. Martyball or Cowher Power sounds good. Let them run things and have Rick Smith do their bidding.
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Old 09-08-2008   #3
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

I don't think Kubiak is on the hot seat nor should he be. He has improved this team both years he's been here. To say that this one game has him on the hot seat is just dumb.
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Old 09-08-2008   #4
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

Kubiak will be judged at the end of the season not after one game. if this team goes 4-12 or worse, then he probably will lose his job. But we can't judge a season after one game as bad as it was.
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Old 09-08-2008   #5
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
To say that this one game has him on the hot seat is just dumb.
Your use of the word dumb is not really the best terminology to make your point.

Take away the Carr situation, I see some very similar traits of Kubiak's teams to Caper's teams.

The next 4 to 5 games will show us a lot. The Texans post only 1 or 2 wins during that stretch and play similarily to their play against the Steelers or marginal improvement, this is 2005 all over again.

This is year 3 of Kubiak and still he hasn't got the Texans close to turning the the corner.
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Old 09-08-2008   #6
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

Yup. Unfortunately... this last game has worried alot of peope inside and out of this organization. When you hear things likes shocked, we thought we were really prepared, we went over the right things, surprised, etc,etc.... its not a good sign. Now, it is only one game and this can be turned around. But it can also be the beginning of a couple few more years of waiting until we really have the competitive team we thought we might have now. So which is it... a one or two gameset back? Or a realization we are still a couple off seasons away and even then its not for sure. Such a bummer we are even typing this stuff.

The Great Wait Continues...
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Old 09-08-2008   #7
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

There is a perfect example of a team with no character on espn right now and they are wearing silver and black.

...And they are getting manhandled, in their house, on national television, by the Broncos.

Man these non-character guys sure do get flagged a bunch.
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Old 09-09-2008   #8
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

I don't feel that this game really changed things for me. I have had my doubts about the direction of this team for a long time. I am, however, still willing to wait and see. Things could well turn around. I do have this sick-to-my-stomach feeling that this first game will be a harbinger of a disasterous season.
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Old 09-09-2008   #9
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

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Originally Posted by GNTLEWOLF View Post
I don't feel that this game really changed things for me. I have had my doubts about the direction of this team for a long time. I am, however, still willing to wait and see. Things could well turn around. I do have this sick-to-my-stomach feeling that this first game will be a harbinger of a disasterous season.
Bolded are my thoughts as well, the rest. Eh, not so much.

I was expecting to lose this game. Although, I wasn't expecting to lose as badly as we did, I wasn't completely suprised like some of ya'll here. All this game told me was our offensive line is a work in progress, and that our defense is atrocious.

Nothing new.
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Old 09-09-2008   #10
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

I don't think Kubiak is even close to being on the hot seat right now and I think he'll only get near one if this season becomes a complete disaster along the lines of the 2005 season that flushed Capers and Casserly down the toilet. Even then I think he would come back next year (2009) to either straighten things out or fail and then be fired.

I really don't think it will come to that though. I think we're going to do OK this season despite how utterly pathetic we looked Sunday. I think that we'll beat the bad teams on our schedule and win a couple against the middle of the pack teams. We've gotten lucky in that the Jaguars have lost almost their entire starting line and their defensive line has undergone enormous change. We'll win a game against them. We might even pull off a split with either Tennessee or Indy thanks to each of those teams having what I'd call nagging issues. We'll win around 8 games this year again and the guys in charge will fill another hole or two next year through the draft. They'll probably sign another worthless free agent or two (that seems to be their blind spot) and get everybody's hopes up again but we'll get better slowly, at a crawl actually.

By the time we are ready to really contend for a playoff spot Andre Johnson will be a 10 year veteran and people will be saying he's lost a step.
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Old 09-09-2008   #11
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

I tend to generally agree on all 4 points. I do think Kubes is on the hot seat but his seat is an iceburg compared to Richard Smith.

What I am afraid of for Kubes is his loyalty will blind him to what needs to be done ala Dom Capers. And we all know how that turned out. Smith is an anchor on Kubes, this defense, and this team. His D, his game plans, his schemes, are all a joke. He has D lineman backing up 8 yds on a guaranteed running down. He has players out of position all over the field, with slow LB's trying to cover Hines Ward? What's up with that? Where were the blitzes, or any attempt at pressuring or confusing the Steelers? The tackles are playing a 3/4 type technique in a 4/3. It's a mess. Granted, the talent is middle of the road at best, but we aren't playing middle of the road D. We are playing bottom of the barrel D. Think about this folks - the Defense on the first expansion team is FAR better than this. Anyone want to go back and check who was playing safety then? I mean it's reality check time here.

And on Offense he has the boy wonder calling the shots. WTF?

And I will go on record now. If Kubes is fired, it will be because he was too damn loyal to do what needs to be done. Firtst order of business, fire Richard Smith and get someone who knows what the hell he is doing.
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Old 09-09-2008   #12
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

You know, if Kubes is on the hot seat and Cowher comes out of retirement, and our team doesn't make any real moves towards consistently winning (and not losing horribly), then I say make a play for Cowher.

Kubes is too loyal and maybe unwilling to do things differently than they were done in Denver, even if they don't work here, and that worries me.
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Old 09-09-2008   #13
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

As far as the defense goes, I don't like R. Smith myself and will be glad to see him go. But also we have a lot of players starting that simply aren't that good. We have a VERY good core on defense, but after about the first three or four really good ones, the rest of them are lame and most wouldn't start elsewhere. It isn't all Smith's fault, but at the same time Smith just isn't a good DC. A bad combo for us.
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Old 09-09-2008   #14
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

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As far as the defense goes, I don't like R. Smith myself and will be glad to see him go. But also we have a lot of players starting that simply aren't that good. We have a VERY good core on defense, but after about the first three or four really good ones, the rest of them are lame and most wouldn't start elsewhere. It isn't all Smith's fault, but at the same time Smith just isn't a good DC. A bad combo for us.
We had Kenny Wright and Matt Stevens playing safety in 2002. We did not have anyone near the talent of Mario or Ryans in the front 7. We didn't have much pass rush either. Yet that squad was downright respectable. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
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Old 09-09-2008   #15
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

Kubiak isn't out there blowing tackles and blocks, and missing assignments and failing to make reads. These players, who get paid big jack for this job, need to do some gut-checks to figure out why they seem to have forgotten the fundamentals of the game. Perhaps Kubiak and his staff have them overthinking or something, but the blame on having no heart is squarely on the players themselves, IMO. Maybe Kubiak just doesn't light the fire inside, who knows. It was a letdown all the way around, and hopefully they can turn this ship around quick.
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Old 09-09-2008   #16
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
We had Kenny Wright and Matt Stevens playing safety in 2002. We did not have anyone near the talent of Mario or Ryans in the front 7. We didn't have much pass rush either. Yet that squad was downright respectable. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
Dom Capers 3-4 defense
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Old 09-09-2008   #17
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

This game changed nothing for me.

I knew what this team was.

The team is young. To me it just looked like they were too lax coming out of pre-season....Lots of guys didn't play at all in the last pre-season game...

Add the relaxed approach we took with the relaxed nature of Kubiak and you get a team that is still stuck in pre-season mode when the bullets start flying for real...

The Steelers were at home, they are a very good team, and their coach had them jacked up...Those guys were more hungrier than our guys and it showed...

It showed in the way we got blown off the ball...it showed in the way we missed tackles....we looked slow and soft all the way around...That's something that goes deeper than talent, or coaching....That speaks right to the core of desire....Our guys didn't show any fight...They were shell shocked...

Hopefully that nasty episode was a wake up call last week...Hopefully some guys are embarrased and pissed off...Hopefully some coaches are embarrased and pissed off...

It was one game where the whole team....special teams included.....looked flat...

The season isn't over....The team is still young and they are still figuring out how to rise to the occasion every week...

I have my own reasons to believe they'll get better...Don't know how much better, but I think at the end of the season we'll see a much different/more evolved team what we saw it pitt last sunday....

Just my
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Old 09-09-2008   #18
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

As disgusted as I am right now, it is possible that this mixed up team could go on a 4 game winning streak or something wild like that. I know it seems impossible right now, but the amount of effort this team as a whole displays from one period to the next is almost as unfathomable as the length of time that the period will last.

How many times have we heard players talk about all the talent this team supposedly has, but they don't seem to believe it most of the time. Until most of them believe it, it will only show sporadically. It took 2 crappy spots by the refs on the first drive of the game to make most of our team go into fetal-position mode. The game may have been completely different if these guys had faith in each others' faith in each other not to quit. Even Schaub made several bad passes he would not have thrown if he had not lost faith in the rest of the team. He was trying to force it when nothing was there. There's way too much "we're going to lose anyway" attitude out there on the field and it's most obvious in missed tackles.

What would you do if you knew it would make the difference between winning and losing? WELL THEN, DO IT.
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Old 09-09-2008   #19
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Default Re: This Game Changed Things For Me

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Dom Capers 3-4 defense
I was under the impression that the defense we ran from 2002 until 2005 was overwhelmingly Vic Fangio's creation and bore little resemblance to anything Dom Capers had ever put into place.

That defense was better than this one by a long shot.
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Old 09-09-2008   #20
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I was under the impression that the defense we ran from 2002 until 2005 was overwhelmingly Vic Fangio's creation and bore little resemblance to anything Dom Capers had ever put into place.

That defense was better than this one by a long shot.
That's my take as well. Wasn't that one reason we were all up in arms - because Fangio was calling the shots and Capers wasn't overseeing the D or calling the D on gameday? Smith is just another Fangio imo. We need a real DC in here and some additonal talent before we can right this ship imo.
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