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Is David Carr all that bad?

Sam_24

Sam_24

Practice Squad
Is David Carr really all that bad? Rumors all over Denver is that Gary Kubiak might elect to take quarterback Jake Plummer with him to Texas. Being that Jake already knows Gary's offense so well he could start for a year or two while Vince Young or Matt Leinart are being groomed.
Jake has grown up alot in Denver, he has alot to offer but I think Shanahan might elect to go in another direction other than that of the snake.
David Carr in my mind is not bad at all but unlike Jake he doesnt know Garys offense at all, being that Mcnair wants to win now. Gary might want someone whos know his style of play while he prepares a younger talented QB.
 
David Carr isn't bad. If he had an o-line he would b good. He gets way 2 much preasure on him and not a lot of time 2 throw. Mayb if we sign plummer we can trade him 2 the cheifs 4 some people since Trent Green is getting old. :rolleyes: He would do great in KC with their o-line i bet.

GO TEXANS!!!!!! :gotexans1 :wherewill :fans:
 
Taking Jake with in my opinion would be suicide. With a lack of production at offensive line, you need a scrambling quarterback. Jake does not fit that mold whatsoever.
I'd rather test my water with Carr.
 
I don't see this happening. Any source for the flying rumors? BTW, anyone else remember the last time a QB named "Snake" came to Houston?
 
The better question would be "Is the o-line that bad?".

If Jake came to Houston the Colorado hippies would have nobody to root for...not going to happen.
 
Welcome to the board, you should fit in just fine here. Generally, there are three camps regarding David Carr:

(1) David Carr sucks, and I do mean, sucks like no one else. He is quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league, and we have his pretty boy looks, his "homer" fans, and his complete and total lack of anything resembling skill to blame for this 2-14 record. Vince Young takes a dump and his teammates are inspired, rally around it, and subsequently will go the playoffs.

(2) David Carr is the man. The guy has never made an honest mistake in his life: it's either his O-line, playcalling, coaching, receivers, or quite possibly the fact that he cut his hair that's to blame for anything and everything you thought he did wrong. Football's a team game, and it's the team that sucks.

(3) David who? Reggie Bush is an automatic touchdown everytime he looks at the ball. Draft him, problems solved.

That is pretty much it, with only slight variation to the theme :) As I say, welcome aboard.
 
I am pretty much in camp no. 1, but the only thing worse then DC would be Jake. I'll have to admit that due to some hard work by Kubes and Shanny, Jake is looking alot better then he did with the Cardinals. But, when the pressure was on, NFC Championship, the old Jake resurfaced.

Another post asked if our O-line was really that bad, and I would have to say yes again. They are pretty good against the run, but pass blocking is almost non-existant. If you thought Jake looked bad in the NFC Championship game, wait until he sets up behind our line.
 
Unfortunately the 'love my Carr' members of this board are able to see how the O-line is the problem, but when you try and break down the problems on the team and include Carr within those problems, they start screaming 'its a team game'. I don't quite get how its a team game when you critique the QB, but its an O-line problem, and not a team game, when you don't.

ALL the problems in this team were not directly related to Carr. But he was a major contributor to the offensive problems, IMHO. So was the O-line, IMHO.

Carr will be the QB, McNair has guaranteed that practically. Kubiak will just have to get used to the idea that for at least one more year he will have to drive a hoopty, 4 flat tires, rusted paint, belongs in the scrap heap, Carr.
 
I don't think Carr is that bad at all, I have always thought he has alot of potential. I think he will be good QB under Kubes.

Basically, I trust Kubiak's evaluation of Carr as he has spent most of his life either being a QB or coaching a QB, he is way more qualified then anyone I know to evaluate Carr's potential.

All that being said, I think there are plenty of us that think Carr can be the QB of the future but still has to develope, un-learn some bad habits/decision making, and render to some quality coaching. Also simultaneously believing that there are just too many holes to fill on this team in one offseason, and YES one of them is the O-Line, another one being half of the defense especially if we are going to switch to a 4-3 (at least most of the time). That is the camp I am in!
 
TEXANS84 said:
Taking Jake with in my opinion would be suicide. With a lack of production at offensive line, you need a scrambling quarterback. Jake does not fit that mold whatsoever.
I'd rather test my water with Carr.
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If I could find that head scratch thingy, I'd put it here (x)

Jake doesn't fit the mold of a scrambling QB? What's next, Jake is a classic drop back-pocket passer?
 
TEXANS84 said:
Taking Jake with in my opinion would be suicide. With a lack of production at offensive line, you need a scrambling quarterback. Jake does not fit that mold whatsoever.
I'd rather test my water with Carr.
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why do you think he was nicknamed "snake"?? It was for his scrambling/escapeability.
 
jerek said:
Welcome to the board, you should fit in just fine here. Generally, there are three camps regarding David Carr:

(1) David Carr sucks, and I do mean, sucks like no one else. He is quite possibly the worst quarterback in the league, and we have his pretty boy looks, his "homer" fans, and his complete and total lack of anything resembling skill to blame for this 2-14 record. Vince Young takes a dump and his teammates are inspired, rally around it, and subsequently will go the playoffs.

(2) David Carr is the man. The guy has never made an honest mistake in his life: it's either his O-line, playcalling, coaching, receivers, or quite possibly the fact that he cut his hair that's to blame for anything and everything you thought he did wrong. Football's a team game, and it's the team that sucks.

(3) David who? Reggie Bush is an automatic touchdown everytime he looks at the ball. Draft him, problems solved.

That is pretty much it, with only slight variation to the theme :) As I say, welcome aboard.
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Actually, I think a lot of people are at (4) We don't if David Carr is the man or sucks. Because we see some good things and some bad things, but with all the excuses in list in (2), our QB position is Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. We don't know what David Carr we're gonna get.

Basically 2002 again, without the stored good will. :(
 
Texans_Chick said:
Actually, I think a lot of people are at (4) We don't if David Carr is the man or sucks. Because we see some good things and some bad things, but with all the excuses in list in (2), our QB position is Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. We don't know what David Carr we're gonna get.

Basically 2002 again, without the stored good will. :(
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actually, that is closer to my thoughts than any of them but I also have a drastic lean towards #1. I have seen too many errors by Carr that shouldn't be made by a Rookie QB, much less a 4 year veteran, to have alot of faith in him. I always hope that he can turn his carreer around, but I have serious doubts.
 
edo783 said:
Just another thinly disguised how to draft VY proposal.
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When I read this thread my first thought was "give me a break" Give it up for god sakes,
VY people.
:homer: He ain't comming here,
 
While our O-line has been terrible no doubt about that but David has never done anything to help himself either tacking sacks running out of bounds for sacks locking to one read its a combination of two things. but hopefully if we are gonna be stuck with carr may be he can turn it around.:rolleyes:
 
edo783 said:
Just another thinly disguised how to draft VY proposal.
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I dont know what your getting at. Im not even a Texans fan, Im moreless a David Carr fan, Ive watched him play since college and always figured that he had alot to offer.
Personally I think David Carr could excel in Kubiaks system, you all, well most of you seen what he did for Jake Plummer. Heck he even played a very big role in sending Brian Grease to the pro bowl.
Kub is a quarterback building master mind, you folks ought to be happy that David is there to play under Kub hes gonna do a great job in reforming him.
It could be worse, you could have Jake Plummer at QB and have your team and most of their fans try to convince you that Jake is something special when its clearly the way the team is designed to hide his faults.
Please take Jake we'll give him to you lol!
 
Texans_Chick said:
Actually, I think a lot of people are at (4) We don't if David Carr is the man or sucks. Because we see some good things and some bad things, but with all the excuses in list in (2), our QB position is Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. We don't know what David Carr we're gonna get.
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I call the fourth group the "Trent Dilfer camp". Meaning that we know DC has more raw ability than Trent Dilfer, and Dilfer has a Superbowl ring. Simply put, Carr might not carry the team on his shoulders, but he can be an adequate field general if he has a good team around him (and, of course, a good defense). But he won't lose the game for you, either, like certain weak QBs of seasons past.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Actually, I think a lot of people are at (4) We don't if David Carr is the man or sucks. Because we see some good things and some bad things, but with all the excuses in list in (2), our QB position is Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. We don't know what David Carr we're gonna get.

Basically 2002 again, without the stored good will. :(
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Wow thats the best way I heard it put! Thats exaclty how we feel about Jake Plummer in Denver!
 
Double Barrel said:
I call the fourth group the "Trent Dilfer camp". Meaning that we know DC has more raw ability than Trent Dilfer, and Dilfer has a Superbowl ring. Simply put, Carr might not carry the team on his shoulders, but he can be an adequate field general if he has a good team around him (and, of course, a good defense). But he won't lose the game for you, either, like certain weak QBs of seasons past.
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your 4th group doesn't fit with what Texans_chick was saying. She was basically saying that the 4th group really doesn't know how to classify Carr yet. She didn't say anything about Carr being "an adequate field general if he has a good team around him". Nor was she saying that "he won't lose the game for you". All she was saying is that the 4th group really can't tell if Carr is going to be a bust or a star.
 
vtech9 said:
your 4th group doesn't fit with what Texans_chick was saying. She was basically saying that the 4th group really doesn't know how to classify Carr yet. She didn't say anything about Carr being "an adequate field general if he has a good team around him". Nor was she saying that "he won't lose the game for you". All she was saying is that the 4th group really can't tell if Carr is going to be a bust or a star.
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Then let's say there are now FIVE groups. :D (I clumped us together because these are moderate takes, meaning we don't hate the guy, but we don't blindly support him, either. Like Texans Chick said, "Because we see some good things and some bad things") I was joking around anyway, and forgot to disclaimer it with a " ;) ".

I honestly don't know what to think about Carr at this point. I'm indifferent. If he's here, I'll root for him and hope he pulls through. But if they let him go or trade him, I'm apathetic and will root for whoever they put in his place. Basically I have no emotional ties to the dude.
 
You will be the first one to eat your words, I will make sure of that.
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considering that I have been right for the last 25 games or so, (Nov 2004) I hope you'll excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over such a juvenile thought. :ok:

But just so you can sleep better at night, I would gladly eat those words. Just as soon as Carr actually does something on the field that looks like an NFL starting QB and not a high school homecoming QB.

Patting the heck out of my own back, but no eating involved. :stirpot:
 
vtech9 said:
your 4th group doesn't fit with what Texans_chick was saying. She was basically saying that the 4th group really doesn't know how to classify Carr yet. She didn't say anything about Carr being "an adequate field general if he has a good team around him". Nor was she saying that "he won't lose the game for you". All she was saying is that the 4th group really can't tell if Carr is going to be a bust or a star.
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Yeah, that is what I was saying. Maybe Double Barrel's Trent Dilfer category would be number 5.

So under the revised David Carr Stud or Dud Scale (DCSDS), this is what you got:

1. David Carr is a stud on a bad team with a bad system.

2. David Carr is Trent Dilfer, adequate NFL QB who can manage a game and with talent and coaching around him, can go to the Superbowl.

3. David Carr is the Forrest Gump box of chocolates--you don't know what you're gonna get.

4. It doesn't matter what David Carr is, because Reggie Bush is the shizzle and will score every time he touches the ball.

5. David Carr sucks.



So, from now on, all Carr love/hate thread can merely be reduced to numbers.

New poster can say, "5! 5! And bad play on words with Carr's name."

And poster from Fresno can say "Oh yeah, well 1 and as a backup position 4. And VY is the poor man's Vick and various other unreasonable silly things."

And then voice of reason might say "3, but with some coaching and better players around him maybe 2."


:redtowel:
 
Double Barrel said:
Then let's say there are now FIVE groups. :D (I clumped us together because these are moderate takes, meaning we don't hate the guy, but we don't blindly support him, either. Like Texans Chick said, "Because we see some good things and some bad things") I was joking around anyway, and forgot to disclaimer it with a " ;) ".

I honestly don't know what to think about Carr at this point. I'm indifferent. If he's here, I'll root for him and hope he pulls through. But if they let him go or trade him, I'm apathetic and will root for whoever they put in his place. Basically I have no emotional ties to the dude.
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I feel ya DB...Like you, I can take him or leave him at this point.

I was all for getting Carr with the 1st ever pick. I knew he had a few problems, like locking on to his WR's, but I knew he had the arm and was hoping that coaching could fix his flaws.

After 4 years, as much as I would like to see Carr succeed, I just have a hard time believing that he can turn it around. I mean, how long do you give him?

If we keep him, it's almost like he is a rookie again, without, like Texans_chick said, the stored good will. He will basically be starting over. If he does turn it around, it won't be in the very first year, it will be more like it was with Plummer, a slow progression.

By the time Carr does get it turned around, if he does, he will be starting his 7th or 8th year, and looking for a new contract.

The jury is still out if he can turn it around. I have my doubts.
 
Double Barrel said:
Then let's say there are now FIVE groups. :D (I clumped us together because these are moderate takes, meaning we don't hate the guy, but we don't blindly support him, either. Like Texans Chick said, "Because we see some good things and some bad things") I was joking around anyway, and forgot to disclaimer it with a " ;) ".

I honestly don't know what to think about Carr at this point. I'm indifferent. If he's here, I'll root for him and hope he pulls through. But if they let him go or trade him, I'm apathetic and will root for whoever they put in his place. Basically I have no emotional ties to the dude.
Click to expand...

I am actually a part of #5, and my generalization was meant to be humorous. I tend to think Carr is a good QB who hasn't demonstrated his true potential, while for the most part he hasn't been given the chance to. I say, give Kubiak two years, and if Carr isn't an upper echelon QB by then, then dealing him might be a good option. Then again, teams have won Super Bowls without upper echelon QB's, and this of course does nothing to satiate the Vince-or-die crowd on this board.

That's my take.
 
I think if he was that bad, he wouldn't have unquestionably been the starter every single weel he's been in the NFL.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Yeah, that is what I was saying. Maybe Double Barrel's Trent Dilfer category would be number 5.

So under the revised David Carr Stud or Dud Scale (DCSDS), this is what you got:

1. David Carr is a stud on a bad team with a bad system.

2. David Carr is Trent Dilfer, adequate NFL QB who can manage a game and with talent and coaching around him, can go to the Superbowl.

3. David Carr is the Forrest Gump box of chocolates--you don't know what you're gonna get.

4. It doesn't matter what David Carr is, because Reggie Bush is the shizzle and will score every time he touches the ball.

5. David Carr sucks.



So, from now on, all Carr love/hate thread can merely be reduced to numbers.

New poster can say, "5! 5! And bad play on words with Carr's name."

And poster from Fresno can say "Oh yeah, well 1 and as a backup position 4. And VY is the poor man's Vick and various other unreasonable silly things."

And then voice of reason might say "3, but with some coaching and better players around him maybe 2."


:redtowel:
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do a poll! hurry!
 
Nighthawk said:
do a poll! hurry!
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Nah, no poll. I was just making a funny. Besides I am not even sure that I know how to do a poll. :cool:

That being said, I'm not sure the MB needs another venue for expressing one's thoughts on DC. But if you want to, go ahead.

:texflag:
 
phan1 said:
I think if he was that bad, he wouldn't have unquestionably been the starter every single weel he's been in the NFL.
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What? That was a joke right? He was handed the position by coaches who are no longer here. As much as I really don't care for his qb style, I hope Carr can be successful here. I hope and pray he proves me and alot of naysayers wrong.
 
kbourda said:
What? That was a joke right? He was handed the position by coaches who are no longer here. As much as I really don't care for his qb style, I hope Carr can be successful here. I hope and pray he proves me and alot of naysayers wrong.
Click to expand...

And the naysayers would love more than anything to be proved wrong as well.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I was not sure if you were a Carr naysayer as well, so I spoke for the naysayer nation without really having any mandate to do so. :)
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Well, i'm very much a Carr naysayer but like I said i'll be willing to give him a look see.
 
HOOK'EM said:
:redtowel: Carr will soon enough lead the TEXANS deep into the playoffs, then every one will be "I told you so"!
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Whats with all these people saying Carr is a bad QB. The poor guy has honestly not had a real opportunity to show what he can do. He not only has had the worst O-Line in the league, but he in all reality has no one to throw the ball too other than AJ. Its no excuse its just a fact. Peyton Manning would not be able to run the offense that we had this past season. Dang, everyone is on this VY trip, I believe if he would have stunk up the Rose Bowl everyone would be pulling for him to stay at UT in order to get more exp. and to develope that avg. arm of his. He outgained Bush in yrds. i know, but he faced what the 39th ranked defense in the nation. In LIMITED PLAYING TIME Bush had 177 combined yrds and a touchdown against the 2nd ranked defense in the nation. Go figure
 
Koolbrz said:
Whats with all these people saying Carr is a bad QB. The poor guy has honestly not had a real opportunity to show what he can do. He not only has had the worst O-Line in the league, but he in all reality has no one to throw the ball too other than AJ. Its no excuse its just a fact.
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The fact is he has had 4 years to show signs of improvement. Not in the W-L column but in the decision making coloumn.

Is the O-line that bad, really? Or does he make them look that bad. How is it that 5 guys and all their backups can runblock like horses but all those guys collectively can't pass block worth a lick. You would almost have to plan that. The 1st O-ine sure was horrible but this years wasn't yet they are getting alot the blame for the 68 sax. That's crap considering that the 1st ever O-line we had gave up 76 sax. They are not that bad. Carr and his decision making is bad, Great QB skills, Bad QB mind. Yet the staff seems deadset on keeping him around 3 more years.

If you or me anyone else had that kind of boss, then we would walk in his office and piss in the corner cuz we knew that nothing would happen to us. Imagine a new company offers you a job as sales manager from a sales position with a different company (smaller) from, hmmm let's say Fresno CA.

OK year 1 expectations low but 1st week on the job you land a big client (beat Dallas). The rest of the year goes as planned and your new boss is happy but expects to see more. 4-12

OK year 2 you make another splash on the scene in your first week (beat Miami in Miami) but the rest of the year goes as planned on the under side of "as planned". Not to mention you missed most of the middle part of the year due to injury and your asst sales mng (Banks) held down the fort awfully well and actually landed a new client (beat Panthers, eventual SB team later on that year) and almost landed another (SB winning Pats had to take us to OT in order to win). You had a courageous effort coming back to work early and landing a big client (Falcons, with a just as injured as Carr was Vick) but only pulled 1 or 2 more clients by years end. 5-11

OK season 3 and you are making remarkable progress, you actually get enough money to get a haircut (back to back wins finnally thanx in large part to Colemen, the loser). The year is going as planned and you project to your boss that you might make qouta, break even (the possibilty of going .500). Yet you finish with falling short once again and you work mates (fans) are getting fed up (booing you when you come back on the field after an injury that sends Banks back to the bench). Sason a failure 7-9

OK season 4, after demanding that your other bosses change things up for you you fall flat on your face actually doing collectively worse than you did in your 1st year as sales manager. Echoes thru the halls and cubicles are that maybe the big office, big job, big pay, big city, etc are too much and are not cut out for it. But one of the guys that hired you say that it isn't your fault and fires one of your workmates in an attempt to help you get better but you still get worse an worse. The abilityis there, but it seems as the heart isn't, it seems that you are comfy with the base salary and that the bonus $$ is just extra but not needed. Season a failure, 2-14

In the real world, contract or not, we'd be canned in a minute, on the mere fact that we would keep breeding that losing attitude if we were to stick around. Heck some of us would get the call to just not show back up and our things will be mailed to us.

This is just a lame reason for the team to not look like they made a bad decision. It's gonna take a while to become a playoff team, is McNair gonna re-up his contract after the 3 yr option is up to the tune of 5 year 80 mill if still don't have a playoff appearance? If so then we've got issues, if not the who's the QB, can we have Henson back (J/K)
 
Koolbrz said:
Whats with all these people saying Carr is a bad QB. The poor guy has honestly not had a real opportunity to show what he can do. He not only has had the worst O-Line in the league, but he in all reality has no one to throw the ball too other than AJ. Its no excuse its just a fact. Peyton Manning would not be able to run the offense that we had this past season. Dang, everyone is on this VY trip, I believe if he would have stunk up the Rose Bowl everyone would be pulling for him to stay at UT in order to get more exp. and to develope that avg. arm of his. He outgained Bush in yrds. i know, but he faced what the 39th ranked defense in the nation. In LIMITED PLAYING TIME Bush had 177 combined yrds and a touchdown against the 2nd ranked defense in the nation. Go figure
Click to expand...

Vince had over 200 yards rushing, and over 200 yards passing..... yeah, that's pretty good. 3000 yards passing, 1000 yards rushing for the season, including the A&M game.... not bad. the guy is talented. Those season numbers show you it wasn't just one game.


4 years into the league, and we still don't know about David Carr..... it's not his fault,,,, blah,blah, blah......... $8million dollars for one year is a lot of money.... is he worth it?? I don't know.......... you don't know..

I think the Fairest thing we can do for Carr, is to pick up his 2 year extension. Give him a fair opportunity to get his stock up. If he can do it, fine... if he looks like he can take us to the superbowl, we keep him. But we take Young with the #1 and sit him behind Carr for two years. deal Ragone, and keep Banks for a measely $1mill. Give Carr the the opportunity to win 4 out of the first 8 games of 2006. If he can't do it(teams fault, coaching, injury, whatever) we send Vince in. If he get's us 4 of the first eight wins, he gets to start the rest of the year.

If he really is all that & a bag of Chips, he'll start 2007...... if he gets us into the playoffs in 2007, we start working on the VinceYoung trade papers.

I know this doesn't make business since to alot of you........ all you've seen is the 2005 RoseBowl, and the UT vs A&M game..... But the guy is talented. There hasn't been a QB like him @ the college level. Think Rothlesberger, Think McNabb, think Culpepper, if you think those guys are busts.... then you're right, chances are good, that Vince's talent won't amount to much in the NFL. But if you agree those are good NFL passing QBs who add an Xfactor to their offense because of their mobility, and playmaking ability, then you'd have to agree the guy is worth the #1 pick. before you 'reply' too quick, note that I said he is worth the #1 pick, not that he will be as good or better than those guys. I also didn't mention where he is from, he's a talented MOFo, I don't care where he is from. It doesn't matter to me, but I think it is Awesome, that he wants to come here to play.
 
Big B Texan Fan said:
The fact is he has had 4 years to show signs of improvement. Not in the W-L column but in the decision making coloumn.

Is the O-line that bad, really? Or does he make them look that bad. How is it that 5 guys and all their backups can runblock like horses but all those guys collectively can't pass block worth a lick. You would almost have to plan that. The 1st O-ine sure was horrible but this years wasn't yet they are getting alot the blame for the 68 sax. That's crap considering that the 1st ever O-line we had gave up 76 sax. They are not that bad. Carr and his decision making is bad, Great QB skills, Bad QB mind. Yet the staff seems deadset on keeping him around 3 more years.
(J/K)
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Not only that, but if "Carr is holding the reins" as in the 1st half of the StLouis Game, The O-line does an excellent job........ we set a franchise record for most points in a half....... but 2nd half..... they've got ADD or something and don't know how to block??

I still haven't figured that one out. It shouldn't matter who is calling the plays, either they can block, or they can't.

Aaaannnnnnnd.......... Casserly still has his job, so that tells me it can't be a question of talent. Reeves didn't come to evaluate Carr only.... but the talent level of the the whole team. Casserly was to keep his job, if Reeves thought he had done a good job evaluating players. If not, he's supposed to be gone. that's not the case, so we've got talent.
 
Get A New QB said:
and how long was carr in the game
:hmmm: (oh my god is CONFUSING)
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Ooh, you got me there. Banks came into the game with 11 seconds left in the 1st half to take a knee. You're right, that is a gross disparity.

How about this--in 2003 Banks played 2 full games and parts of 4 others. Carr played in 9 full games and parts of 2 others. Banks was sacked 13 times vs. Carr sacked 15 times. Yeah Banks is just a sack avoiding machine.
 
I am just going to answer the question. No, Carr is not bad at all. No excuses, No rhetoric of homer-esque explanations about a line, his lack of judgement or anything of the sort. Bottomline and that is he is not a bad QB never has been...Period.
 
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