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Bob Allen Commentary

Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
Did any of you guys catch him tonight? He said that an anonymous player told him after the game that "too many first round players on the D-line are apathetic", and that is why the play of the D swings wildly from good to bad. Not verbatim, but you get the point. Don't shoot the messenger. :wild:
 
Vinny said:
Did any of you guys catch him tonight? He said that an anonymous player told him that "too many first round players on the D-line are apathetic". Not verbatim, but you get the point. Don't shoot the messenger. :wild:
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Is he wrong though? What type of emotion or anger do we see coming off of our defensive line? Most of our emotion/leadership comes from the second level.
 
silvrhand1 said:
Is he wrong though? What type of emotion or anger do we see coming off of our defensive line? Most of our emotion/leadership comes from the second level.
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Wrong about what? He was reporting what he heard and wasn't speculating. Take it fwiw and throw a pinch of salt over the shoulder for good vibes, karma or whatever makes you happy.
 
Well there's only 2 first rounders on the line right now. And if you didn't catch Amobi's post-game reaction, he wouldn't even discuss his recent progress here the past few games because we lost. So this has to be directed at Mario then right? If thats true, wow, I hate hearing that.
 
infantrycak said:
Well with TJ gone, there are only two on the DL. Take a stab at which one.
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I would say both(Okoye more than Williams).

Mario and Amobi have both played really well at times, then kind of gotten into a rut and disappeared.

When they're fired up and attacking the defense is kicking butt. When they slack off the defense gets pushed around.

I don't see why the anonymous player would say they are the problem though. Williams overall has played fantastic despite not getting the big sack numbers, and Okoye has solidified himself as a quality starter at this point.
 
Goatcheese said:
I would say both(Okoye more than Williams).

Mario and Amobi have both played really well at times, then kind of gotten into a rut and disappeared.

When they're fired up and attacking the defense is kicking butt. When they slack off the defense gets pushed around.

I don't see why the anonymous player would say they are the problem though. Williams overall has played fantastic despite not getting the big sack numbers, and Okoye has solidified himself as a quality starter at this point.
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Yeah exactly, those two have played well this year.
 
Goatcheese said:
I don't see why the anonymous player would say they are the problem though. Williams overall has played fantastic despite not getting the big sack numbers, and Okoye has solidified himself as a quality starter at this point.
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Allen was asking players why they thought the difference in the first half defense and second half defense. The player in question didn't just offer it up out of the blue. It's gonna be big news tomorrow I bet.
 
Vinny said:
Allen was asking players why they thought the difference in the first half defense and second half defense. The player in question didn't just offer it up out of the blue. It's gonna be big news tomorrow I bet.
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That 'answer' by whomever it was seems more so like an excuse honestly...and the worst kind at that.
 
New_Texans said:
That 'answer' by whomever it was seems more so like an excuse honestly...and the worst kind at that.
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to be specific, it was 'pointing fingers". This kind of stuff doesn't go down in a respectful, disciplined locker room. It reeks of poor leadership.
 
I know Antonio Smith wasn't a first rounder, but he was a high dollar free agent.


My finger is pointed at him.

This is why college football is a better product than pro football in my opinion. Too many pro players are just collecting a paycheck and lack a real passion for the game.
 
Vinny said:
to be specific, it was 'pointing fingers". This kind of stuff doesn't go down in a respectful, disciplined locker room. It reeks of poor leadership.
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What it reeks of to me is excuse making by someone in the back seven. Let me see who it wouldn't be - DeMeco, Cushing or any of the other rookies, Reeves, can't see it being Pollard or glad to get his job back lucky to have it as a 7th rounder Diles. That pretty much leaves Dunta and Wilson - one trying to stay a couple more years in the league and one looking for a big payday. Hmmm?

TexansFanatic said:
This is why college football is a better product than pro football in my opinion. Too many pro players are just collecting a paycheck and lack a real passion for the game.
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And why I dislike college ball is it is a few guys with the talent to go on to the NFL dominating lessor athletes without really having to study the game. I can give examples - there is one up in possum holler.
 
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TexansFanatic said:
I know Antonio Smith wasn't a first rounder, but he was a high dollar free agent.


My finger is pointed at him.

This is why college football is a better product than pro football in my opinion. Too many pro players are just collecting a paycheck and lack a real passion for the game.
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This is one of the dumbest sports myths. College players play for future NFL paychecks. They coddle injuries because of their NFL future and juniors go back to school to up their draft status and in turn their future paycheck. Furthermore, one of the main incentives of going to college if you're any person not just an athlete is to earn more money as opposed to having no college degree.
 
TexansFanatic said:
I know Antonio Smith wasn't a first rounder, but he was a high dollar free agent.


My finger is pointed at him.

This is why college football is a better product than pro football in my opinion. Too many pro players are just collecting a paycheck and lack a real passion for the game.
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He has been pretty weak against the run so far(kind of surprising given his size and FA hype), but we weren't exactly getting run on. He did get a few good pressures this week though.

Overall we didn't get much out of our DEs last Sunday. Mario had 1 QB pressure, Smith had 3 and a tackle, Barwin had 1 and a tackle, and Bulman had 2 tackles. Not exactly making Warner uncomfortable.
 
Vinny said:
Allen was asking players why they thought the difference in the first half defense and second half defense. The player in question didn't just offer it up out of the blue. It's gonna be big news tomorrow I bet.
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spill the beans? Or do you know who the player was?
 
Antonio Smith or Dunta Robinson.

Dunta has a history of calling people out.

Antonio runs his mouth pretty good, as well.

It isn't Okoye (duh). It isn't Mario (duh). That leaves Antonio and the rotational guys, which I don't see any of the rotational guys being the culprit.

It isn't going to be a linebacker, though 'Meco does speak bluntly at times.

None of the secondary guys are good enough to be able to take a cheap shot like this, even if it's anonymous. Dunta would be the exception due to prior history of such comments.

Antonio or Dunta, take your pick and lay down your bets.
 
I'd be OK with Okoye getting cut anytime this season. Preferably this week.

Sometimes you have to have a sacrificial lamb to make a point. The guy is subpar. Yeah, yeah...I know: "Then he'll go somewhere and play really well."

Bullcrap.

The guy isn't fit for the role in the NFL.

And I think the comments are zeroed in on OKOYE specifically.
 
GP said:
I'd be OK with Okoye getting cut anytime this season. Preferably this week.

Sometimes you have to have a sacrificial lamb to make a point. The guy is subpar. Yeah, yeah...I know: "Then he'll go somewhere and play really well."

Bullcrap.

The guy isn't fit for the role in the NFL.

And I think the comments are zeroed in on OKOYE specifically.
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WTF? He's been our best interior pass rush this season and is on a hot streak right now. What games have you been watching? Only difference between him and Mario this year is 1 tackle and 0.5 sack.
 
Vinny said:
Did any of you guys catch him tonight? He said that an anonymous player told him after the game that "too many first round players on the D-line are apathetic", and that is why the play of the D swings wildly from good to bad. Not verbatim, but you get the point. Don't shoot the messenger. :wild:
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Since Houston only has two first round players on the D-line, does that mean somebody is calling out Mario? If that's the case it has to be Ryans. He's the only player besides Mario to have earned the right to call Mario out. Besides those two has anybody else on the defense made the pro-bowl or earned the right to call Mario out?
 
GP said:
I'd be OK with Okoye getting cut anytime this season. Preferably this week.

Sometimes you have to have a sacrificial lamb to make a point. The guy is subpar. Yeah, yeah...I know: "Then he'll go somewhere and play really well."

Bullcrap.

The guy isn't fit for the role in the NFL.
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Normally this is where I'd come in and bag on Amobi......but I just can't do it. The guy is improving under Kollar and I don't think he's the problem. (which is something I never thought I'd be saying this season)..we've played well against the run the past few weeks (so his weakness hasn't hurt us there) and we struggled to get to Warner (which he was in on one of the few times we did get to him). He seems to be getter better ever week this season.

Check this out, I just took a look at his stats/production that he's put up so far this year..

http://www.nfl.com/players/amobiokoye/profile?id=OKO541722

Through 5 games, the guy has pretty much all ready matched the entire production totals he put up all of last season (which is crazy and makes me ask....what the hell was he doing last season? Maybe he just couldn't play in that system). I think if Amobi keeps his nose to the ground and keeps making solid improvement like he has been doing this season under Kollar, he might turn out to be a pretty good DT after all...the guy is still only 22 years old and this new defensive philosophy seems to fit him well. (however we still need to find a big DT to put next to him).

The main problem with the Dline is the same problem we've had since Mario got here..........WE DON'T HAVE A PASS RUSHER OPPOSITE MARIO. We keep signing undersized DTs to be our DE threat opposite Mario....we NEED a guy like Robert Mathis who can actually get to the QB, that and we need a big run stuffing DT to put next to Amobi. Cutting Amobi will not make us better upfront, believe it or not....it'd make us worse. The guy could be on the brink of a breakout season this year.


However the finger pointing that Bob talked about above still can't be tolerated and it screams of a player who didn't want to be here to begin with.......otherwise known as Dunta Robinson. They should've moved his overrated ass before the season started. HE'S the one who needs to look in the mirror, because he's not nearly as good as he thinks he is. (and he **** himself out of millions of dollars, because NOBODY is going to offer him a contract like the one he reportedly turned down, the guy is nothing more than a #2 corner). I'm so glad he turned down what ever contract Rick offered him, because that would've just been a bad contract that we would had to be stuck with. He'll be gone next season and all I've got to say is good riddance....don't let the door hit your punk ass shoes on your way out.
 
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TexansFanatic said:
This is why college football is a better product than pro football in my opinion. Too many pro players are just collecting a paycheck and lack a real passion for the game.
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In college football too many big time schools are collecting huge paychecks from bowls and lack enough passion for the game to create a legitimate playoff system.

As long as college football is determining it's champion by votes in a beauty contest and not on the field it will never be as good of a product as the NFL IMO.
 
Carr Bombed said:
However the finger pointing that Bob talked about above still can't be tolerated and it screams of a player who didn't want to be here to begin with.......otherwise known as Dunta Robinson.
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I agree 100%. Finger pointing can't be tolerated. Robinson, IMO, hasn't earned the right to finger point at Amobi, much less Mario. Neither has anybody else on the defense really, which has me shocked that somebody is calling out MW.
 
While we're on the subject of finger pointing, who do you pin the blame on for the defensive struggles so far?

QBP = pressure
Stops = the cumulative number of solo defensive tackles made which constitute an offensive failure(includes sacks)

DE

Mario Williams 2 sacks, 12 QBP, 14 stops
Antonio Smith 12 QBP, 6 Stops
Tim Bulman 1 QBP, 3 stop
Connor Barwin 3 QBP, 2 stops

DT

Amobi Okoye 1.5 sacks, 8 QBP, 11 stops
Jeff Zgonina 2 QBP, 7 stops
Deljuan Robinson 1 QBP, 2 stops
Frank Okam ....
Shaun Cody 1 stop in 4 starts...

LB
Democo Ryans 3 QBP, 16 stops
Brian Cushing 1 sack, 4 QBP, 15 stops
Zach Diles 1 QBP, 11 stops

FS
Eugene Wilson 1 Stop, Thrown at 5 times, 1 reception, 1 INT

SS
Disasters

Corners covered in another thread.

So far I would cross Williams, Ryans, Cushing, Diles, Okoye, Wilson, Smith, and Reeves off my **** list.
 
Malloy said:
Do we even know that the finger pointer is on the defense? or still on the team?

TJ?
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It all makes sense now... TJ pointed the finger, but since he had 3 fingers pointing back at his 300+ pounds of suckiness he got shipped out. :)


Seriously though, I think it's Dunta. That guy has never been afraid to bump his gums. Plus with how bad the offense has played in stretches the last couple of weeks, I don't think ANYBODY could talk bad about a player on the other side of the ball. Andre is the only guy who could have that right and we all know he wouldn't throw a teammate under the bus....even after David Carr left town and people in the media set him up for clean shots at his old QB...he still wouldn't take them, instead took the high road.
 
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I saw and heard Allens story (I usually watch 13), and I'd bet the "anonymous source" is Robinson, but of coures I dunno for sure ? As somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, he's got a history of calling people out and he's readily accessible for the local media and apperars often in interviews.
Even though Smith isn't a top pick, he's a top FA pick-up and most would agree he's the one of the starters who's most underperforming this year. Okoye has been a disappointment over his career, but not so much this year as he's stepped it up and Mario is usually given good marks for his efforts.
 
No way it could be Robinson. The guy wasn't there all of training camp and then he goes out and says people lack passion? If it is, I'd be happy to cut him tomorrow
 
Goatcheese said:
While we're on the subject of finger pointing, who do you pin the blame on for the defensive struggles so far?

QBP = pressure
Stops = the cumulative number of solo defensive tackles made which constitute an offensive failure(includes sacks)

DE

Mario Williams 2 sacks, 12 QBP, 14 stops
Antonio Smith 12 QBP, 6 Stops
Tim Bulman 1 QBP, 3 stop
Connor Barwin 3 QBP, 2 stops

DT

Amobi Okoye 1.5 sacks, 8 QBP, 11 stops
Jeff Zgonina 2 QBP, 7 stops
Deljuan Robinson 1 QBP, 2 stops
Frank Okam ....
Shaun Cody 1 stop in 4 starts...

LB
Democo Ryans 3 QBP, 16 stops
Brian Cushing 1 sack, 4 QBP, 15 stops
Zach Diles 1 QBP, 11 stops

FS
Eugene Wilson 1 Stop, Thrown at 5 times, 1 reception, 1 INT

SS
Disasters

Corners covered in another thread.

So far I would cross Williams, Ryans, Cushing, Diles, Okoye, Wilson, Smith, and Reeves off my **** list.
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We don't do the two things you need to do to win. Stop the run, and pressure the QB. That puts most blame on the D line. It's almost like we run a 1-6-4. Everyone gets blown off the line, turning them into slow Linebackers. Very disappointed with the Defensive play. More disappointed in the D line play.
 
Goatcheese said:
While we're on the subject of finger pointing, who do you pin the blame on for the defensive struggles so far?

QBP = pressure
Stops = the cumulative number of solo defensive tackles made which constitute an offensive failure(includes sacks)

DE

Mario Williams 2 sacks, 12 QBP, 14 stops
Antonio Smith 12 QBP, 6 Stops
Tim Bulman 1 QBP, 3 stop
Connor Barwin 3 QBP, 2 stops

DT

Amobi Okoye 1.5 sacks, 8 QBP, 11 stops
Jeff Zgonina 2 QBP, 7 stops
Deljuan Robinson 1 QBP, 2 stops
Frank Okam ....
Shaun Cody 1 stop in 4 starts...

LB
Democo Ryans 3 QBP, 16 stops
Brian Cushing 1 sack, 4 QBP, 15 stops
Zach Diles 1 QBP, 11 stops

FS
Eugene Wilson 1 Stop, Thrown at 5 times, 1 reception, 1 INT

SS
Disasters

Corners covered in another thread.

So far I would cross Williams, Ryans, Cushing, Diles, Okoye, Wilson, Smith, and Reeves off my **** list.
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When I see that many QB pressures coming from our DEs and OLBs, then that tells me the secondary is not making the QB hold on to the ball enough. Don't you ever notice that Mario is rounding the LT like a express train but he always arrives just one second later. That's coverage man. We need better coverage.
 
I thought finger pointing wasn't supposed to take place on "good guy" teams. (rolling eyes)

Anyways, my money is on Antonio Smith who talked. Screamed down a coach. Talks alot of junk. Plays next to these guys. As for the D-line, Tennessee has shown me a very valuable lesson this year. Without that interior push your DEs and to some extent secondary have to do a little extra and that hasn't happened there and it never really has happened here.
 
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They tried to get Bob Allen on the air, but he was getting on a plane.

Not sure that it really matters, though. Doesn't matter who talked. Good organizations keep everybody on the same page.

The point of the story to me is poor leadership, like Vinny said. This kind of **** doesn't happen on a Belichick or Tomlin team.
 
Is Dunta talking about himself?

His play is erratic at best. Sure, he CAN make a superstar play....about once a game. The rest of the time he looks like a #2 guy. Enjoy the paychecks you get now Dunta, you won't be seeing anything of that sort ever again.
 
Man you know the expectation level here has really dropped when you start hearing hearing people say anyone on our DL has been playing good. Even Mario needs to play better.

Texans 2-3
total defense # 23
passing defense # 16
rushing defense # 26
Combined opponent W L record ( 8 - 16)
given up 120 points or 24 ppg # 24

NY JETS 3-2
# 24 total offense
# 26 passing
# 7 rushing
scored 24
avg 20.2

Tennessee 0-5
# 17 total offense
# 21 passing
# 8 rushing
scored 31
avg 16.8

Jacksonville 2-3
# 20 total offense
# 18 passing
# 13 rushing
scored 31
avg 19.4

Oakland 1-4
# 32 total offense
# 32 passing
# 28 rushing
scored 6
avg 9.8

Arizona 2-2
# 16 total offense
# 3 passing
# 31 rushing
scored 28
avg 21.2

:thinking:

The best offense we have played is ranked 16th and we are giving up 20 ppg.

The only team we have held below their average was the Raiders.
Got to go, more later.
 
Vinny said:
Did any of you guys catch him tonight? He said that an anonymous player told him after the game that "too many first round players on the D-line are apathetic", and that is why the play of the D swings wildly from good to bad. Not verbatim, but you get the point. Don't shoot the messenger. :wild:
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So I am assuming it is a veteran on the defense.

Dunta Robinson
Eugene Wilson
Nick Ferguson
DeMeco Ryans

Outside shot: Eric Winston
 
hookinreds said:
Either do losing seasons, coincidence? I think not!
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There's also a case to be made that they win because they have great leadership.

Maybe we have so many losing seasons because we haven't had good leadership.

Belichick and Tomlin are extreme examples. There's plenty of losing coaches that are effective enough to keep their dirty laundry in-house.
 
infantrycak said:
And why I dislike college ball is it is a few guys with the talent to go on to the NFL dominating lessor athletes without really having to study the game. I can give examples - there is one up in possum holler.
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Agreed. And to add to that, until college ball gets a playoff system in it's a joke in the end IMHO. If you are going to keep out teams that are not "BIG" schools from a championship despite a better record, you need to have either:

A) Playoffs
B) Eliminate the 90+ "Smaller" schools from D1 and let the "Big" schools play each other every week. No more cream puff games against "Saint Mary and the Blind University" and crap like that.

And yes, it is possible to have a playoff system just like NCAA Basketball as far as travel, etc...

The NCAA is just as bad when it comes to money. That's why they will never put in a playoff and disrupt their BCS cash cow and why they keep the small schools around to get smacked but then at least give them some $$ from being on TV. And you are wrong if you think these players don't get some under the table money. Check out some of the players at a university who come from poor families in the "hood", have no job while they play college ball, yet sport all their platinum "bling" while still in school. I'm not even saying I have some big issue with that, but I get tired of the money aspect when comparing NCAA to NFL ball.
 
This is the kind of crap that you hear from teams on the verge of meltdown, not on the verge of greatness. And it shows me what kind of mediocre .500 team this is right there, and which side of average this team will most likely end up at the end of the season.

This is just sucktastic all the way around. Now that it's on the news via Bob Allen, and the source remains anonymous, the players can start wondering who it is and who they were talking about. Trust has been broken, locker room guts spilled to the public, and somebody just started marching Kubiak & Co. to the guillotine room.
 
There's enough blame to go around on defense. Nobody has been playing well enough where they are absolved of all blame. As for the 1st rounders:

Mario: He's been getting good pressure and is still a force against the run. BUT he's only gotten 2 sacks. For one of the premier players at his position he needs to start making more game changing plays if we want to start getting some wins. I'm sure a sack/forced fumble against Jax/AZ would've helped us get some wins that we didn't. For a normal player he's playing good, but for a franchise player he's not doing good enough. You see AJ out there putting the team on his shoulders running over multiple DBs to get in the endzone. We need to start seeing that same "one man wrecking crew" level of play from Mario this season if we want to make the playoffs.

Amobi: He's improving but still not playing like a top 10 pick. We need him to collapse the pocket consistently and make QBs unable to step up into the pocket to avoid the edge rush and deliver accurate throws.
 
Mr. White said:
Good organizations keep everybody on the same page.

The point of the story to me is poor leadership, like Vinny said. This kind of **** doesn't happen on a Belichick or Tomlin team.
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I bet it would if the Steelers or Pats went 7 years without a winning season.
 
Double Barrel said:
Now that it's on the news via Bob Allen, and the source remains anonymous, the players can start wondering who it is and who they were talking about. Trust has been broken, locker room guts spilled to the public, and somebody just started marching Kubiak & Co. to the guillotine room.
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So maybe something positive can come from this after all?
 
LOL. This isn't the beginning of the end for anybody but Okoye.

This is about the Nigerian Daydream, and nobody else.

But everyone already knows it, so it's no big deal. This is just letting fans know that the players know Okoye is not hacking it.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is just sucktastic all the way around. Now that it's on the news via Bob Allen, and the source remains anonymous, the players can start wondering who it is and who they were talking about. Trust has been broken, locker room guts spilled to the public, and somebody just started marching Kubiak & Co. to the guillotine room.
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...or it could light a fire under said apathetic players. everybody on the texans D always talks about accountability so now that they're being held to it publicly, we'll see how they react

fwiw, ive read sports autobiographies where these sort of media comments of thing has sparked clear-the-air meetings among teams that arent performing fully, which in turn has lead to bigger & better things.

like i said, il wait to see the reaction before deciding whether this has been a good or bad thing
 
also btw could cody be one og the players that is being talked about. he was actually a high second rounder but it could apply to him
 
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