DisagreeAstros received some good players, Texans got trash
The Stros soon became bottom feeders after this trade.
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DisagreeAstros received some good players, Texans got trash
Disagree
The Stros soon became bottom feeders after this trade.
Nope,
The Joe Morgan trade is he worst in Houston sports history.
They made the Big Red Machine what it became.
Texans took on a lot of "trash" last off season and look how well that turned out.Astros received some good players, Texans got trash
Texans took on a lot of "trash" last off season and look how well that turned out.
I think they are confident they have some guys they like and they can help improve or play better in their system.
That’s exactly what I’ve been telling my buddies. We are just a few pieces away! If we can hit at DT come draft time we may be able to get away with what we at secondary and focus on getting that good RB, and a good WR. It’s doable!Texans are in a situation where they just need to plug and play interior big bodies and focus on the skill positions, this is what ultimately takes the top off and sends us to our first Super Bowl.
I think the team is looking to have more potential than last season already and the coaches and core players have experience in this system now plus another full off-season program to practice.Texans are in a situation where they just need to plug and play interior big bodies and focus on the skill positions, this is what ultimately takes the top off and sends us to our first Super Bowl.
They trade a league MVP MorganBlockbuster trade sends Morgan to Reds | Baseball Hall of Fame
baseballhall.orgLee May Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Lee May. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.comwww.baseball-reference.comJoe Morgan Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Joe Morgan. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.comwww.baseball-reference.com
Joe Morgan played 9 yrs before the trade. He helped them, but its not like the stros traded him for prospects. May finished top 10 in MVP the year of the trade and had 3 good years on a trash Astros team. It's not like the Astros were good with Morgan either. They went 500 or better in the 3 seasons with May and 0 times in 9 seasons with Morgan
Checkout my response to Lee big down thread.Disagree, on paper the Morgsn trade looked like Astros won the trade and some even thought they fleeced the Reds. Nobody, anywhere came even close to thinking Texans won or even got fair value in the Hopkins trade.
It was such a bad trade that if you simulated the trade in Madden it would come back and say Texans had rejected the trade. We literally could have gotten better value if they had ran the trade through a video game to test, that's how bad it was.
May has almost 500 hrs in an era where it was scarce. I will admit, that traded was the year I was born, but if you read enough articles, nobody, I mean nobody thought the Astros lost that trade. Maybe Morgan complimented Rose,Bench, and all them dudes better, but its not like it was the Bagwell trade. He was 30 when the trade happened and the Astros were sorry with him. The Texans traded away a future hall of famer on a good contract for trash. The teams around the NFL didn't even know he was available. If the league knew, they could've gotten a couple of 1st rd picks for him vs David Johnson who was about to be cut.They trade a league MVP Morgan
A Cy Young candidate, Billingham
A gold glove CF, Geronimo
A Starting solid 3B Menke and a Reserve OF Armbrister
For May, who was a solid upper tier 1B, Tommy Helms, who was at the end of his career, and a utility player Jimmy Stewart, might as have been the actor Jimmy Stewart.
I'm going with the worst trade in history.
85% of the time I did that mock, Thomas was there. Nabers isn't making it that far, he has too many gifts. Thomas has a lot gifts also, I just think the board might push him down some.Interesting mock:
Note* if Bears choose Olu Fashanu after landing FA Wr, Nabers could fall into trade range of Houston and/or Thomas could be there at 22. We could move up for him.
Probably not past Jacksonville85% of the time I did that mock, Thomas was there. Nabers isn't making it that far, he has too many gifts. Thomas has a lot gifts also, I just think the board might push him down some.
You obviously didn't read the article that was posted for you...They trade a league MVP Morgan
A Cy Young candidate, Billingham
A gold glove CF, Geronimo
A Starting solid 3B Menke and a Reserve OF Armbrister
For May, who was a solid upper tier 1B, Tommy Helms, who was at the end of his career, and a utility player Jimmy Stewart, might as have been the actor Jimmy Stewart.
I'm going with the worst trade in history.
“If the United States had traded Dwight Eisenhower to the Germans during World War II, it wouldn’t have been much different than sending (Lee) May and (Tommy) Helms to Houston,” wrote Enquirer sports reporter Bob Hertzel that day.It was a day that saw the Cincinnati city manager resign and the White House announce the dates of President Nixon’s historic trip to China. But for the Cincinnati Enquirer, the main news story on the Nov. 30 front page was a shocking trade that reshaped the Reds for years to come.
I totally agree and was fairly shocked that Nick didn't hang in at 23 for him. With the way he moved in the past and his luck, I would not be shocked if he took Thomas at 4285% of the time I did that mock, Thomas was there. Nabers isn't making it that far, he has too many gifts. Thomas has a lot gifts also, I just think the board might push him down some.
Geronimo played in 149 games in 1976 and 146 in 1975. He was an everyday gold glove CF.You obviously didn't read the article that was posted for you...
from that link:
“If the United States had traded Dwight Eisenhower to the Germans during World War II, it wouldn’t have been much different than sending (Lee) May and (Tommy) Helms to Houston,” wrote Enquirer sports reporter Bob Hertzel that day.
The two-deck Enquirer headline announced that “Reds, Houston trade eight, Helms, May, Stewart dealt” – leaving readers to discover what the Reds received in return in the body of the story.
“Most observers at the winter meetings believe that the Reds got the short end of the trade,” Hertzel wrote in an analysis that occupied a quarter of the first sports page of the Enquirer.
Ceasar Geronimo was a part time outfielder. Joe Morgan had yet to win a gold glove, Dennis Menke was an aging average outfielder.
No way Thomas falls to 2-42.I totally agree and was fairly shocked that Nick didn't hang in at 23 for him. With the way he moved in the past and his luck, I would not be shocked if he took Thomas at 42
In 1969 he played in 28, 1970 he played in 47, 1971 he played in 94 games. He was then traded to Cincinatti before the 1972 season. What he did years later is not relevantYou need to go
Geronimo played in 149 games in 1976 and 146 in 1975. He was an everyday gold glove CF.
No way Thomas falls to 2-42.
I would definitely give up 3-86 for Thomas and run the card to the podium.42 + one of our 4th rounders moves us to around 36-38... 42 + 3rd round pick gets us to pick 29-30 or so... Just something to keep an eye on if they want to jump up and grab someone.
I gave up hope drafting Brian Thomas when they decided to trade #23. Houston is stuck at #42 as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise what is the point of trading back this soon?Interesting mock:
Note* if Bears choose Olu Fashanu after landing FA Wr, Nabers could fall into trade range of Houston and/or Thomas could be there at 22. We could move up for him.
I think it is just chess JC. Our 42 and original 59 equals 790 points on the draft pick board and our pick 23 was 760 points. That puts us between 1.21 and 1.22 as possible targets. Then you add in the round sixth if I remember correctly and the 2025 round 2. Vikings hopefully will be a top 10 picker that draft.I gave up hope drafting Brian Thomas when they decided to trade #23. Houston is stuck at #42 as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise what is the point of trading back this soon?
True I don't think he makes it past Jacksonville or maybe Pittsburgh. I've got Thomas as a top 10 player.I gave up hope drafting Brian Thomas when they decided to trade #23. Houston is stuck at #42 as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise what is the point of trading back this soon?
It absolutely is relevant, he was the starting gg cf for one of the best teams of all time for a 3-4 yr stretch.In 1969 he played in 28, 1970 he played in 47, 1971 he played in 94 games. He was then traded to Cincinatti before the 1972 season. What he did years later is not relevant
So you trade #23 to get an additional 2nd rounder next year (a 3rd rounder in value this year) only to trade both 2's this year to move up 1 or 2 spots from where you were originally? That's nonsensical. They can't trade anything more than a 4th in this draft to move up without looking like buffoons.I think it is just chess JC. Our 42 and original 59 equals 790 points on the draft pick board and our pick 23 was 760 points. That puts us between 1.21 and 1.22 as possible targets. Then you add in the round sixth if I remember correctly and the 2025 round 2. Vikings hopefully will be a top 10 picker that draft.
DisagreeSo you trade #23 to get an additional 2nd rounder next year (a 3rd rounder in value this year) only to trade both 2's this year to move up 1 or 2 spots from where you were originally? That's nonsensical. They can't trade anything more than a 4th in this draft to move up without looking like buffoons.
Then what is the point for doing this trade now? The only reason I can think of is that they believe their guy will still be available at #42. If you have to trade too much ammunition to trade back up then what is the point in trading back now?Disagree
If they have to trade 3-86 to move up to the bottom of the 1st for a difference maker then I'm all on board. Call me a fool and I will LOL at you.
It was not known at the time that he would be anything other than a good outfielder. You have to look at it as if it were then, not what you know now. Look, I was really upset when Morgan was traded also. Partly because I was still hurting from Rusty Staub being traded a few years before. After Rusty was traded, Morgan was my favorite Astro along with Doug Rader and Larry Dierker.It absolutely is relevant, he was the starting gg cf for one of the best teams of all time for a 3-4 yr stretch.
Before draft trade:So you trade #23 to get an additional 2nd rounder next year (a 3rd rounder in value this year) only to trade both 2's this year to move up 1 or 2 spots from where you were originally? That's nonsensical. They can't trade anything more than a 4th in this draft to move up without looking like buffoons.
No, they believe their guy Brian Thomas which many of us believe could be a wide receiver 1 will be available at approximately 1.21 to 1.23. They also get a six rounder which could be part of another package or a backup player.Then what is the point for doing this trade now? The only reason I can think of is that they believe their guy will still be available at #42. If you have to trade too much ammunition to trade back up then what is the point in trading back now?
I judge a trade by how it turns out. Not by what people think about the trade at the time. Who cares what people think, results are all that matter.It was not known at the time that he would be anything other than a good outfielder. You have to look at it as if it were then, not what you know now. Look, I was really upset when Morgan was traded also. Partly because I was still hurting from Rusty Staub being traded a few years before. After Rusty was traded, Morgan was my favorite Astro along with Doug Rader and Larry Dierker.
No, they believe their guy Brian Thomas which many of us believe could be a wide receiver 1 will be available at approximately 1.21 to 1.23. They also get a six rounder which could be part of another package or a backup player.
If I can get a dynamic wide receiver plus a 6 round this year plus a probable top 10 round 2 the next draft, it is something to think about.
If they believe Brian Thomas is their guy then they would have stayed at 23 to draft him. Otherwise why hope another team is willing to trade down 20 spots with us on draft night? The trade down tells me Houston is banking on their target to still be available at #42.No, they believe their guy Brian Thomas which many of us believe could be a wide receiver 1 will be available at approximately 1.21 to 1.23. They also get a six rounder which could be part of another package or a backup player.
If I can get a dynamic wide receiver plus a 6 round this year plus a probable top 10 round 2 the next draft, it is something to think about.
So basically you don't think anything should be judged in the present tense, only after years and decades have passed?I judge a trade by how it turns out. Not by what people think about the trade at the time. Who cares what people think, results are all that matter.
The results are that this was the worst trade in Houston sports history. On another note the other trade that I hated as a kid was the John Mayberry for Jim York trade. Man the Astros scouts were awesome back then.
Staub, Mayberry, Morgan, Watson, Cedendo, Rader, Wynn, Geronimo
Pitching Dierker,Wilson, Billingham,Cuellar, Guisti etc... and Spec traded away all of that talent trying to be the smartest man in the room.
So basically you don't think anything should be judged in the present tense, only after years and decades have passed?
Pittsburgh haven't drafted a wr in the 1st rd since Holmes. It's not in they're dnaTrue I don't think he makes it past Jacksonville or maybe Pittsburgh. I've got Thomas as a top 10 player.
I don't think they're moving up. I think they like the cluster. Last yr Ryans said they were taking one of these qbs.Then what is the point for doing this trade now? The only reason I can think of is that they believe their guy will still be available at #42. If you have to trade too much ammunition to trade back up then what is the point in trading back now?
I think trades should be judged by the results of these trades. Too many bad trades like this one gets a GM fired.So basically you don't think anything should be judged in the present tense, only after years and decades have passed?
Looks like it, but there's depth on the IOL. Patterson and Kendrick Green, both who played well before getting injured. Heck is the only experienced OT. I see Caserio adding an OT in FA, draft or bothI have been distracted lately. I check in on occasion, to get a feel as to what's going on. Everytime I check, it seems fuzzier. Two questions 1) are they betting on a healthy OLine of (Laremy Tunsil, Kenyon Green, Juice Scruggs,Shaq Mason and Tytus Howard) ? and 2) why did we get rid of David Singletary ?
They need one though. Your probably right though. I could see them drafting Mims or JPJ.Pittsburgh haven't drafted a wr in the 1st rd since Holmes. It's not in they're dna
Looks like it, but there's depth on the IOL. Patterson and Kendrick Green, both who played well before getting injured. Heck is the only experienced OT. I see Caserio adding an OT in FA, draft or both
They need one though. Your probably right though. I could see them drafting Mims or JPJ.
Bird in hand is better than bird in BushThen what is the point for doing this trade now? The only reason I can think of is that they believe their guy will still be available at #42. If you have to trade too much ammunition to trade back up then what is the point in trading back now?
Interesting mock:
Note* if Bears choose Olu Fashanu after landing FA Wr, Nabers could fall into trade range of Houston and/or Thomas could be there at 22. We could move up for him.
I could see the old Patriots making those moves. I doubt the new regime would.I'll take this mock as it stands (DL Johnny Newton at 34 and OL Kiran Amegadjie at 59). Adding in 2 trench guys is exactly how you set this team up. I'd take a chance at WR and CB in the later rounds, and put those at the head of the list in 2025 FA/draft if the later picks don't work out.
Like I stated earlier, would not have traded down this far without more comp in return, instead just slightly tilted in Texan favor. Yet, it does add another quality prospect in 2025. Most years, this would be ideal, but very very doubtful a 1st rd. graded player is there #42. Most years there might be only 15 carrying 1st rd grades, this one it’s close to 30 (which is range where I’d been more comfortable). Depth of 2nd round grades might be close to 20 so at least we’re almost certain to draft one of those and possibly one next year as well.
Anymore trades before draft involving giving up draft capital should be discouraged. Day of or on the clock scenario’s all in play, would be ok.
Anyone got an insider subscription that can list the 16 with first round grades?
The 18 NFL draft prospects with a true Round 1 grade: What makes them 2024 first-rounders, plus comps
We'll see 32 picks in Round 1 in April, but which prospects are actually graded as first-rounders? We named 18 and made pro comps for each standout.www.espn.com
I'm not sure I agreeCaleb Williams
Marvin Harrison Jr.
Malik Nabers
Rome Odunze
Jayden Daniels
Drake Maye
Terrion Arnold
Joe Alt
Dallas Turner
Brock Bowers
Olumuyiwa Fashanu
Taliese Fuaga
Byron Murphy
Jared Verse
Ennis Rakestraw
Brian Thomas
11 of the 16 on offense