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Your take on who should be our new OC

adama51

adama51

Walk-on
It's pretty apparent that playcalling AND being the head coach isn't working too well for OB. The Godsey firing seemed more like scape-goating and hasn't made us much better.

Trust me, nobody knows how left field this sounds as much as me but Lane Kiffin would be a great candidate and the reasons are as follows:

-Has plenty of NFL/NCAA HC experience(although it was quite tumultuous)

-as an assistant was directly involved with turning a dinosaur offense like Alabama turn into a spread/no huddle nightmare

-Finalist for the Broyles award for top coaching assistant

-Has coached against and watched two years worth of film on Watson so he is VERY familiar with him

-Has won multiple championships with Alabama with a new QB every time(also being the QB coach)

- Has turned an abysmal 3-win FAU team into a 10-3 bowl eligible team in his first year.

Of course the big knock on him is he is still too immature but with a stickler like Saban(or OB in this case) it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Also, I'm i know he is going for a HC gig as he is tired of being an OC by now but at the very least he is back in the NFL coaching and the road to HC is that much easier.
 
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DBCooper said:
You got a typo, it should read HC.
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No typo, Although he is dead set on being a HC i don't trust him at all just yet to run his own NFL-level ship yet. That's why I want him at OC where he has had the most success recently. Pay him enough to get him here and beef up this offense.

Its a win-win for both of us. He is back at the NFL level where he wants to be with a shot at HC in a few years(Hell he may even be promoted here if he slays it) and we get a few years of fireworks.

I know it wont happen but it was really just a passing thought
 
If we keep Bill around he isn't going to hire someone who he has no past history with. Especially someone who could potentially replace him at HC.
 
I wish we had a coach that was more like Mike Tomlin or Cowher that would just handle the Head coaching duties and not worry that they have to control every OC and DC coordinator. It worked well when Kubiak hired Kyle but then Kubiak went back to controlling the offense when Kyle left.

OB is repeating the same mistake in my opinion.
 
I would get behind the idea of Kiffin but I would also include Frank Reich's name (brought up by infantrycak for HC) to the list of potential OC's. This would be a lateral move Reich but with O'Brien due to be included in the HC's on the NFL Hot Seat list at seasons end could be the difference maker in making a literal move more appealing. O'Brien will need to set aside his insecurities and hire a strong OC to help him move this team in the right direction.....if saving his job and setting up the Texans for success is his priority.
 
santo said:
I wish we had a coach that was more like Mike Tomlin or Cowher that would just handle the Head coaching duties and not worry that they have to control every OC and DC coordinator. It worked well when Kubiak hired Kyle but then Kubiak went back to controlling the offense when Kyle left.

OB is repeating the same mistake in my opinion.
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Kyle Shanahan only called plays in 2009.

Don't think there is any problem with a HC calling his side of the ball if that's what he wants.

OB sucks being just the HC or both HC/OC.
 
santo said:
I wish we had a coach that was more like Mike Tomlin or Cowher that would just handle the Head coaching duties and not worry that they have to control every OC and DC coordinator. It worked well when Kubiak hired Kyle but then Kubiak went back to controlling the offense when Kyle left.

OB is repeating the same mistake in my opinion.
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Exactly what I want from a HC; a leader of men - not a micromanager. Trust your staff, but verify. If they don't perform, move on.
 
santo said:
Exactly. I liked what I saw from Kyle that year, but it seemed Kubiak was always stressed trying to handle the HC and OC duties.
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Kubiak did the same thing with Dennison as with Shanahan, had him on the QB playcalling circuit for a year then turned over playcalling. I see nothing wrong with that approach.

I don't want OB doing that because he's not a proven playxaller. He needs to hire and turn it over.
 
Here's what I don't get:

When Watson was in at QB, O'Brien was calling plays like a pro. Watson made the plays work, of course, but even before the snap of the ball, you saw jet sweeps, motion men, different formations, etc. Before and after Watson, the playcalling just seems to suck. That's just inexcusable. I mean, if you call a play that motions the TE out and Savage screws it all up, you go back to the film and say "look how the LB responded to the TE motion. That means THIS". Instead, we just get garbage called.

At the end of it all though, I just can't really get fired up about O'Brien as long as Rick Smith is still here. We have a 100+ page thread calling for Rick Smith to be fired already. Send them both out on their ear, but if Rick Smith stays, I don't think it much matters who the HC is beyond the ability to fk up time management.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
O'Brien will need to set aside his insecurities and hire a strong OC to help him move this team in the right direction.
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I agree. That is a giant reason why he cant get over the hump. He is hellbent on making his system work and doesn't want anyone telling him he should try somethin else. Case in point, Him changing up the Offense for Watson(who let's be honest could probably adapt to any system). Low and behold the O looks amazing. OB's stubbornness to change will most likely be the death of him
 
eriadoc said:
Here's what I don't get:

When Watson was in at QB, O'Brien was calling plays like a pro. Watson made the plays work, of course, but even before the snap of the ball, you saw jet sweeps, motion men, different formations, etc. Before and after Watson, the playcalling just seems to suck. That's just inexcusable. I mean, if you call a play that motions the TE out and Savage screws it all up, you go back to the film and say "look how the LB responded to the TE motion. That means THIS". Instead, we just get garbage called.

At the end of it all though, I just can't really get fired up about O'Brien as long as Rick Smith is still here. We have a 100+ page thread calling for Rick Smith to be fired already. Send them both out on their ear, but if Rick Smith stays, I don't think it much matters who the HC is beyond the ability to fk up time management.
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tbh, I think at least half of Watson's positive plays were breakdowns and improvisational on his part. He could do that in just about any given offensive scheme. There is nothing in the previous three seasons that should lead us to believe that O'Brien is any sort of offensive genius and capable of deep strategic thinking as a HC and/or OC.

The inherent problem with the Rich Smith / Bill O'Brien dynamic is that both are mediocre at their jobs. They are not terrible, and have been good enough for McNair to justify keeping them. But they do not compliment each other. Smith needs a superior HC to maximize the roster he fills, and O'Brien needs a superior GM to feed him better talent to make his schemes work as designed. Unfortunately, neither seems to be above mediocre and I think division championships in an inferior division are as good as this pair are going to achieve together. However, this division is getting better, so that is no longer an assumed perspective.

I'd like to see both fired, but what we think is pointless, as always.
 
Double Barrel said:
tbh, I think at least half of Watson's positive plays were breakdowns and improvisational on his part. He could do that in just about any given offensive scheme.
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I agree with that - BUT - at least with the plays being called when he was in there, you saw informational advantages being created for Watson. Before the snap, before Watson ever did anything improvisational, those plays that were being called were better than the ones that were called at any other point prior to him and better than anything we've seen since. Couple crappy play calls with crappy QB and you get what we've gotten.

Think about this for a minute - Savage may very well be the worst QB that O'Brien has ever put out there for any length of time. He's definitely worse than Fitzpatrick, Keenum, Hoyer, and even Osweiler. Savage is worse than Brock Freakin' Osweiler. You know how bad a coach you have to be to find a new rock bottom after Brock Osweiler?
 
adama51 said:
I'm so tired of being called "Patriots-South" I could die
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Meh, my only complaint is that title doesnt come with any rings.... or a competent HC...... or..... a system that doesn't COMPLETELY crumble when a piece is changed.... or.. sigh...... okay yeah i see your point. Why do they call us that again?
 
KA4Texan said:
Meh, my only complaint is that title doesnt come with any rings.... or a competent HC...... or..... a system that doesn't COMPLETELY crumble when a piece is changed.... or.. sigh...... okay yeah i see your point. Why do they call us that again?
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Every team with a new HC that brings on numbers of old staff members, which basically they all do, gets called their version of that. We used to be Denver South.
 
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eriadoc said:
I agree with that - BUT - at least with the plays being called when he was in there, you saw informational advantages being created for Watson. Before the snap, before Watson ever did anything improvisational, those plays that were being called were better than the ones that were called at any other point prior to him and better than anything we've seen since. Couple crappy play calls with crappy QB and you get what we've gotten.
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Maybe. We just don't know what plays were being called. We do know a couple of things. O'Brien was open-minded enough to check his ego and let Watson teach him the college plays that worked for him. O'Brien incorporated much of those plays into his playbook.

How much of O'Brien's EP system was implemented with Watson is a mystery. We know Watson did not get the benefit of first team reps during the off-season. O'Brien still thought he had a competent QB in Savage after three seasons of working with him. tbh, that is quite an indictment of O'Brien's judgment and analysis of QBs.

We also know of at least one instance where Watson scored an improv TD but was not in the right formation. O'Brien was mic'ed up and gently chastised Watson when he came to the sideline. One of the many things I like about Watson is the ability to handle constructive criticism from his coach without getting emotional. In that play, he was obviously happy to score a TD, but still got serious when O'Brien was explaining the mistakes as he came off the field.

eriadoc said:
Think about this for a minute - Savage may very well be the worst QB that O'Brien has ever put out there for any length of time. He's definitely worse than Fitzpatrick, Keenum, Hoyer, and even Osweiler. Savage is worse than Brock Freakin' Osweiler. You know how bad a coach you have to be to find a new rock bottom after Brock Osweiler?
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Savage is just terrible. TJ Yates is a better QB and he's a backup journeyman, at best.

There is simply no way to analyze Savage without calling into question O'Brien's unrelenting support of the guy, even when he's got Deshaun Watson on his roster. I'm not buying that Watson did not reveal anything in the offseason. The reported story about O'Brien asking Rick Smith supports that Watson did show something, but apparently neither of them are qualified enough to recognize what was right under their noses for over four months.

I agree with 'cak that we should be concerned that O'Brien eventually forces Watson to conform to his EP scheme and limits his improv abilities. A case can be made that he's done this with many of his QBs for several seasons.
 
Unless there is a complete change in the coaching staff next year, it'll be more of the same. Watson will make more of the same exciting to watch, but it'll be more of the same.

Until this organization gets a serious reboot it'll always be the same.

At least the Texans on TV make for a good Sunday afternoon nap.
 
Double Barrel said:
tbh, I think at least half of Watson's positive plays were breakdowns and improvisational on his part. He could do that in just about any given offensive scheme. There is nothing in the previous three seasons that should lead us to believe that O'Brien is any sort of offensive genius and capable of deep strategic thinking as a HC and/or OC.

The inherent problem with the Rich Smith / Bill O'Brien dynamic is that both are mediocre at their jobs. They are not terrible, and have been good enough for McNair to justify keeping them. But they do not compliment each other. Smith needs a superior HC to maximize the roster he fills, and O'Brien needs a superior GM to feed him better talent to make his schemes work as designed. Unfortunately, neither seems to be above mediocre and I think division championships in an inferior division are as good as this pair are going to achieve together. However, this division is getting better, so that is no longer an assumed perspective.

I'd like to see both fired, but what we think is pointless, as always.
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Gotta disagree with you here DB. Here's the breakdown.
BoB without a legitimate qb for his offense for 49 games with the Texans = 17 ppg........
BoB's offense with a legitimate qb in DW4 for 7 games = 30 ppg..........
..Bob's offense since DW4 went out= 17 ppg.

It's real simple in that he like every HC in the league needs a qb to make his scheme go. Having YOUR guy under center just takes the pressure off in so many ways other than just in calling plays.

There wasn't alot of breakdown & improvisation being done by Watson...especially towards the back end of his 7 starts. Teams were mush rushing him b/c of his ability to run it. That's why BoB began calling designed runs for him more often; he was reminding defenses of DW4's ability. What Watson was doing more often was just buying time moving around in the pocket while the play developed downfield, with the occasional run. But that was mainly b/c guys were on him almost immediately from the snap of the ball b/c of our trash o-line. So i fail to see how that translates to BoB as not being adept at playcalling or offensive gameplanning. What our offense did in DW4's 7 game stretch wasn't all Watson anymore than it was all OB's playcalling and design. Like it or not, people have to acknowledge that BoB had something to do with us drop 30 ppg in each of Watson's starts.
 
Double Barrel said:
I'm not buying that Watson did not reveal anything in the offseason.
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Thought this deserved bold.

You just don't come in and play that hot and not show more than Savage in practice...which also calls into question the judgment of the "Savage is clearly winning PatStarr."

The reported story about O'Brien asking Rick Smith supports that Watson did show something, but apparently neither of them are qualified enough to recognize what was right under their noses for over four months.
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I think the story was 100% made up by some OB supporter after the game 1 debacle.

Leading indicator? - OB never changed practice patterns to increase 1st team reps. Wouldn't be any need to discuss Watson starting with RS. In fact, that's the way it would naturally happen if Watson is showing well and so you're curious about Watson with the 1st team. Give him team reps and test how he responds. No mother may I for the perfectly routine.
 
Mr teX said:
There wasn't alot of breakdown & improvisation being done by Watson...especially towards the back end of his 7 starts. Teams were mush rushing him b/c of his ability to run it. That's why BoB began calling designed runs for him more often; he was reminding defenses of DW4's ability.
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Oh hell yeah there was improvisation all over the place. And Watson's designed runs were dead flat.

Like it or not, people have to acknowledge that BoB had something to do with us drop 30 ppg in each of Watson's starts.
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He's the OC. Of course he had "something" to do with the result. Maybe if he was a good OC that average would have been 35 PPG.
 
Mr teX said:
Gotta disagree with you here DB. Here's the breakdown.
BoB without a legitimate qb for his offense for 49 games with the Texans = 17 ppg........
BoB's offense with a legitimate qb in DW4 for 7 games = 30 ppg..........
..Bob's offense since DW4 went out= 17 ppg.

It's real simple in that he like every HC in the league needs a qb to make his scheme go. Having YOUR guy under center just takes the pressure off in so many ways other than just in calling plays.

There wasn't alot of breakdown & improvisation being done by Watson...especially towards the back end of his 7 starts. Teams were mush rushing him b/c of his ability to run it. That's why BoB began calling designed runs for him more often; he was reminding defenses of DW4's ability. What Watson was doing more often was just buying time moving around in the pocket while the play developed downfield, with the occasional run. But that was mainly b/c guys were on him almost immediately from the snap of the ball b/c of our trash o-line. So i fail to see how that translates to BoB as not being adept at playcalling or offensive gameplanning. What our offense did in DW4's 7 game stretch wasn't all Watson anymore than it was all OB's playcalling and design. Like it or not, people have to acknowledge that BoB had something to do with us drop 30 ppg in each of Watson's starts.
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That's just it. Everyone here knows SAVAGE was his guy not Watson. We saw what it looked like when OB had HIS GUY and HIS SYSTEM on the field at the same time. As far as system goes what Watson ran was definitely not the conventional EP system OB wanted to run(which to his credit he recognized and changed)

For OB's O to work he needed a phenom at QB and to reinvent his whole offensive philosophy. That right there tells me whatever he has done in the past doesn't work and i hope he doesn't make Watson conform. There is a such thing as coaching a player into a box.
 
What about Pat Shurmur. He has done a magnificent job with Case Keenum, keeping that offense lethal in the absence of Sam Bradford.
 
adama51 said:
That's just it. Everyone here knows SAVAGE was his guy not Watson. We saw what it looked like when OB had HIS GUY and HIS SYSTEM on the field at the same time. As far as system goes what Watson ran was definitely not the conventional EP system OB wanted to run(which to his credit he recognized and changed)

For OB's O to work he needed a phenom at QB and to reinvent his whole offensive philosophy. That right there tells me whatever he has done in the past doesn't work and i hope he doesn't make Watson conform. There is a such thing as coaching a player into a box.
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This is all cockimamy. You didn't know anything...this is what you assume b/c Savage got the starting nod & b/c he kept Savage around....but when you sit back and objectively look at it, you see why he kept him around and why he got the nod over Watson initially. Furthermore For BoB..or any offense to work really, it needs a stud at the helm. That has been borne out over decades of football with all different kinds of HC's and schemes. I doubt there was any "reinventing" as you say and i'm willing to bet that alot of the plays BoB ran with Watson have always been there, he just didn't have the guy at the helm with the right mindset and degree of fortitude to execute.
 
If Bill is still the head coach of this team, personally I don't see him relinquishing his OC duties. In a short period of time he has built up a great relationship with Watson. Going back over that time, look at how excited he was on the sideline when Watson and the offense was on the field. He was finally able to be more creative with his offensive schemes.
 
infantrycak said:
Oh hell yeah there was improvisation all over the place. And Watson's designed runs were dead flat.



He's the OC. Of course he had "something" to do with the result. Maybe if he was a good OC that average would have been 35 PPG.
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Yeah b/c we know that "good" OC's all avg. 35 ppg for their offenses. & we apparently think of improvisation differently. I'll give you the Pat's game where DW4 was improvising his butt off, he made some outstanding off schedule plays in that game. The rest of his games though, there wasn't a whole lot. What DW4 was doing when he was standing in a clean pocket from the shotgun was the equivalent of moving around a little in the pocket to find his throwing lane and/or buy a little time...
 
Mr teX said:
This is all cockimamy. You didn't know anything...this is what you assume b/c Savage got the starting nod & b/c he kept Savage around....but when you sit back and objectively look at it, you see why he kept him around and why he got the nod over Watson initially. Furthermore For BoB..or any offense to work really, it needs a stud at the helm. That has been borne out over decades of football with all different kinds of HC's and schemes. I doubt there was any "reinventing" as you say and i'm willing to bet that alot of the plays BoB ran with Watson have always been there, he just didn't have the guy at the helm with the right mindset and degree of fortitude to execute.
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How was the offense not reinvented? Where were the sweeps, read options, reverses, designed QB runs and RPOs before Watson got here? We don't know if they were thrown into the playbook just as much as we don't know if they were already there to begin with which i don't think they were. i cant believe that this is the same system OB wanted to run initially
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah b/c we know that "good" OC's all avg. 35 ppg for their offenses. & we apparently think of improvisation differently. I'll give you the Pat's game where DW4 was improvising his butt off, he made some outstanding off schedule plays in that game. The rest of his games though, there wasn't a whole lot. What DW4 was doing when he was standing in a clean pocket from the shotgun was the equivalent of moving around a little in the pocket to find his throwing lane and/or buy a little time...
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You do know the Texans are the team with the Bull on their helmets right?

No clue what team you are watching.
 
Yeah i should say the same for you. This myth that DW4 was out there randall cunningham-ing defenses is just that, a myth. Most of why he was so good is b/c of the basics: he was quick with his reads, he was quick and decisive with his decisions, and he was accurate when he committed. Just b/c he had to move doesn't mean he was "improvising".


 
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adama51 said:
How was the offense not reinvented? Where were the sweeps, read options, reverses, designed QB runs and RPOs before Watson got here? We don't know if they were thrown into the playbook just as much as we don't know if they were already there to begin with which i don't think they were. i cant believe that this is the same system OB wanted to run initially
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You confuse him "wanting" to run something, with what he "had" to run with the qbs he had before DW4 b/c they were the suck. But just B/c we hadn't seen it run with previous guys, doesn't mean that it wasn't in BoB's offense in some iteration or another. Everyone used to make fun of Kubiak's "Denny's" menu....well there's alot of plays & formations you can run plays out of on those menus. Now The read options were obviously a throw-in from Clemson but everything else..We've seen reverses run by BoB in the past. The Jets game back in 2015 i believe with Fitz..BoB showed us so many different plays he could dial up with even remotely competent personnel....1 of those being a reverse pass thrown by Cecil Shorts i believe. And your offense isn't an NFL offense if it doesn't have at least 1-2 RPO's in it.
 
Andrew Luck was a "stud" QB but he became a "dud" QB behind an OL that was neglected due to Luck's early success. Now Luck goes 6'-4" @ 240 lbs while Watson goes 6'-2" @ 215 lbs...exactly how long should Watson had been able to stay healthy playing behind an OL that both RS and O'Brien deemed adequate? Not to mention, Watson will be playing behind another OL that RS and O'Brien will assemble for 2018 on a pair of legs that now have ACL injuries on them.

Damn, back and knee injuries can eventually render even the best "stud" QB to the "dud" pile in a hurry. Especially if they're forced to play behind an OL that consistently lapse in protection.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Andrew Luck was a "stud" QB but he became a "dud" QB behind an OL that was neglected due to Luck's early success. Now Luck goes 6'-4" @ 240 lbs while Watson goes 6'-2" @ 215 lbs...exactly how long should Watson had been able to stay healthy playing behind an OL that both RS and O'Brien deemed adequate? Not to mention, Watson will be playing behind another OL that RS and O'Brien will assemble for 2018 on a pair of legs that now have ACL injuries on them.

Damn, back and knee injuries can eventually render even the best "stud" QB to the "dud" pile in a hurry. Especially if they're forced to play behind an OL that consistently lapse in protection.
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I thought this was a thread about the next OC. But somehow some way another player from another team is brought into the mix.
I am not surprised that RS is in the conversation on how the oline was constructed. We just can't stay on topic.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Andrew Luck was a "stud" QB but he became a "dud" QB behind an OL that was neglected due to Luck's early success. Now Luck goes 6'-4" @ 240 lbs while Watson goes 6'-2" @ 215 lbs...exactly how long should Watson had been able to stay healthy playing behind an OL that both RS and O'Brien deemed adequate? Not to mention, Watson will be playing behind another OL that RS and O'Brien will assemble for 2018 on a pair of legs that now have ACL injuries on them.

Damn, back and knee injuries can eventually render even the best "stud" QB to the "dud" pile in a hurry. Especially if they're forced to play behind an OL that consistently lapse in protection.
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Yeah, Throwing your players under the bus is the fastest way to getting fired, just ask Ben McAdoo. Apart from that......what do you want them to say? "Yeah we thought these guys we chose to be our starting o-line would be adequate, but it turns out, they suck.......... my bad". The good news is that i'm damn sure they are saying that in their heads and they will make moves this offseason to improve them. The bad news is, you probably will never hear them actually verbalize this out loud....unless we win the SB and they are recalling the series of events that led them there via an episode of a football life.
 
Mr teX said:
Gotta disagree with you here DB. Here's the breakdown.
BoB without a legitimate qb for his offense for 49 games with the Texans = 17 ppg........
BoB's offense with a legitimate qb in DW4 for 7 games = 30 ppg..........
..Bob's offense since DW4 went out= 17 ppg.

It's real simple in that he like every HC in the league needs a qb to make his scheme go. Having YOUR guy under center just takes the pressure off in so many ways other than just in calling plays.

There wasn't alot of breakdown & improvisation being done by Watson...especially towards the back end of his 7 starts. Teams were mush rushing him b/c of his ability to run it. That's why BoB began calling designed runs for him more often; he was reminding defenses of DW4's ability. What Watson was doing more often was just buying time moving around in the pocket while the play developed downfield, with the occasional run. But that was mainly b/c guys were on him almost immediately from the snap of the ball b/c of our trash o-line. So i fail to see how that translates to BoB as not being adept at playcalling or offensive gameplanning. What our offense did in DW4's 7 game stretch wasn't all Watson anymore than it was all OB's playcalling and design. Like it or not, people have to acknowledge that BoB had something to do with us drop 30 ppg in each of Watson's starts.
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Fair enough. btw, I never said O'Brien was "not being adept at playcalling or offensive gameplanning". That's projection on your part. I just don't buy that he's a genius at it or really anything spectacular. He's average as an OC.

My take is based on comments from Bill O'Brien. Go back and listen to his press conferences and radio show appearances in October and listen to him mention how many times that Watson "extends plays".

What do you think that means? And I'm not talking about buying time moving around in the pocket while the play developed downfield (which is also not a designed part of the EP system if you have paid any attention to Tom Brady and his lightning fast release after the snap).

He also talks about Watson's scrambling abilities and arm as part of extending plays. Are you implying that O'Brien incorporated scrambling for his life as part of his play calling?

When Watson is standing in the pocket checking down, making reads, and throws a pass, you're seeing O'Brien's EP scheme. However, we often saw Watson escape pressure from a shitty o-line collapsing around him, and scheme goes out of the window at that point.

I'm not sure how you can say "there wasn't alot of breakdown & improvisation being done by Watson" when the film and the coach's own words undermine your point.

This has been widely discussed on the national media. Here's an ESPN article talking about it:

Deshaun Watson still learning when to trust instincts on extending plays

One of the ways Houston Texans rookie quarterback Deshaun Watson has made himself so valuable is extending plays after they'd typically end, giving him more time to find a receiver down the field or scramble for positive yardage.

The Texans’ coaching staff saw that characteristic in Watson during his time at Clemson, and according to the rookie, they have encouraged him to lean on that instinct when choosing whether to keep a play alive or throw the ball away.

------------------------------------------------

“I think part of it is he’s got just a good feel for our offense, and when it’s a good time to extend plays and take some calculated chances versus just winging it all the time,” Ryan said. “He seems to really kind of understand the danger of doing that versus, ‘You know what, I’m in a situation here where if I extend this play, leave the pocket, I know I’ve got this type of route that can convert and give me something back in my field of vision.’

“He’s just got a very good feel for that, and I think that’s probably the biggest part of it is his in-game instincts that take over where he does a great job.”
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Texansballer74 said:
I thought this was a thread about the next OC. But somehow some way another player from another team is brought into the mix.
I am not surprised that RS is in the conversation on how the oline was constructed. We just can't stay on topic.
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This one turned into an anti O'Brien thread on page one, first response. Didn't see you complain about that.
 
Double Barrel said:
Fair enough. btw, I never said O'Brien was "not being adept at playcalling or offensive gameplanning". That's projection on your part. I just don't buy that he's a genius at it or really anything spectacular. He's average as an OC.

My take is based on comments from Bill O'Brien. Go back and listen to his press conferences and radio show appearances in October and listen to him mention how many times that Watson "extends plays".

What do you think that means? And I'm not talking about buying time moving around in the pocket while the play developed downfield (which is also not a designed part of the EP system if you have paid any attention to Tom Brady and his lightning fast release after the snap).

He also talks about Watson's scrambling abilities and arm as part of extending plays. Are you implying that O'Brien incorporated scrambling for his life as part of his play calling?

When Watson is standing in the pocket checking down, making reads, and throws a pass, you're seeing O'Brien's EP scheme. However, we often saw Watson escape pressure from a shitty o-line collapsing around him, and scheme goes out of the window at that point.

I'm not sure how you can say "there wasn't alot of breakdown & improvisation being done by Watson" when the film and the coach's own words undermine your point.

This has been widely discussed on the national media. Here's an ESPN article talking about it:
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Well a huge part of why we see things differently is b/c you along with others in here apparently thought BoB was some kind of offensive genius in the 1st place...I wanted him as the next HC, but at no point did I ever think he was that.

What’s really funny though is How folks pick and choose what they believe is true and what is false about what BoB says in these press conferences. When he was propping up Savage as being clearly ahead of Watson in TC, he was lying according to some here. The scheme is the scheme. Unless he’s truly running for his life and guys are breaking off routes and coming back to him..which wasn’t THAT often, He wasn’t doing it as often as most think he was. I posted film earlier in this thread that shows this. There were a few plays each game where he had to truly improvise, but hardly anything out of the ordinary from most other qbs in any given game. In fact, Most guys can and do improvise they just check it down or throw it away and live to fight another down....where everyone’s getting confused is in how electrifying the plays DW4 was able to make off his improvising..huge chunk plays and TDS..that’s truly abnormal & that’s what BoB was talking about.


Aside from that, No qb or scheme is ever going to be so good that a qb is able to sit in a clean pocket and execute like its 7 on 7 100% of the time. as I said, those other guys on defense get paid to move qbs off spots, disrupt timing and/or move qbs into a blitz....and yes, sometimes they even win..... So no I’m not implying BOB incorporated scrambling as part of his play calling, I’m implying that every qb in the game has to scramble...or at least attempt to scramble to get away from pressure and buy time at least a few times throughout any given game. So again, outside of the Pats game, Watson wasn’t really doing it that much more than most other qbs in the league from game to game....he just has a skill set that enabled him to make more out of broken plays than most. But again how does that reflect on BoB’s ability as a play caller? It doesn’t really.

The bottom line is that BoB is always going to be complimentary of his players and critical of himself and his coaches; that’s a prerequisite to being a HC. We can literally watch games and see guys on the field ******* up...it doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s on bob....what we do know however is what he’s going to say at the press conference though...”we just have to coach it better...”.
 
Double Barrel said:
Maybe. We just don't know what plays were being called. We do know a couple of things. O'Brien was open-minded enough to check his ego and let Watson teach him the college plays that worked for him. O'Brien incorporated much of those plays into his playbook.

How much of O'Brien's EP system was implemented with Watson is a mystery. We know Watson did not get the benefit of first team reps during the off-season. O'Brien still thought he had a competent QB in Savage after three seasons of working with him. tbh, that is quite an indictment of O'Brien's judgment and analysis of QBs.

We also know of at least one instance where Watson scored an improv TD but was not in the right formation. O'Brien was mic'ed up and gently chastised Watson when he came to the sideline. One of the many things I like about Watson is the ability to handle constructive criticism from his coach without getting emotional. In that play, he was obviously happy to score a TD, but still got serious when O'Brien was explaining the mistakes as he came off the field.



Savage is just terrible. TJ Yates is a better QB and he's a backup journeyman, at best.

There is simply no way to analyze Savage without calling into question O'Brien's unrelenting support of the guy, even when he's got Deshaun Watson on his roster. I'm not buying that Watson did not reveal anything in the offseason. The reported story about O'Brien asking Rick Smith supports that Watson did show something, but apparently neither of them are qualified enough to recognize what was right under their noses for over four months.

I agree with 'cak that we should be concerned that O'Brien eventually forces Watson to conform to his EP scheme and limits his improv abilities. A case can be made that he's done this with many of his QBs for several seasons.
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Every QB has looked worse the longer he played for OB... Savage looked pretty good in very limited action last year, Osweiler looked very good in pre-season and the first couple of games last year, Mallet even looked good for a game. Perhaps Watson is the first he's coached that has enough confidence not to crumple after a scolding post game.

Keenum also had a good short stretch. Young and mentally tough is what he has in common with Watson
 
adama51 said:
I'm so tired of being called "Patriots-South" I could die
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The Texans org isn't Patriots south.

They do almost nothing like the Patriots do when it comes to acquiring talent. Look at this offseason as an example.
 
infantrycak said:
Oh hell yeah there was improvisation all over the place. And Watson's designed runs were dead flat.



He's the OC. Of course he had "something" to do with the result. Maybe if he was a good OC that average would have been 35 PPG.
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Not true

He**, if BOB were any good they should've been putting up 50 pts per game.

# People who hated the BOB hire from the beginning.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I thought this was a thread about the next OC. But somehow some way another player from another team is brought into the mix.
I am not surprised that RS is in the conversation on how the oline was constructed. We just can't stay on topic.
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Well RS is the GM and his job is to construct the roster.

Jeff Christensen for OC. Staying on topic.
 
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