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Winston/ Mariota or Goff/Wentz?
- Thread starter beerlover
- Start date
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I would rank them...
Mariota
Goff
Winston
Wentz
Mariota
Goff
Winston
Wentz
I like Goff as much as Winston/Mariota with a couple of yrs experience. But then I have a higher opinion of Goff than most.
Winston and Goff are about equal in my eyes, with a slight edge to Goff. (Remember how much I like Winston and that will tell you my opinion on how good Goff can be.)
Mariota has more natural abilty than both of them, but he couldn't stay healthy in college, so it was no surprise that he got hurt in the pro's. He will have to get rid of the ball more quickly and learn to avoid hits if he's going to stay healthy. Can he learn to do this? Sure, will he learn? who knows.
I was pretty skeptical of Mariota coming out, so ...
Goff
Winston
Wentz
Mariota
He clearly exceeded my expectations last year.
Goff
Winston
Wentz
Mariota
He clearly exceeded my expectations last year.
Just curious, what are you basing this on?
Most likely. But of course, I'm different. Not trying to be, it's just... in 2014, I was disappointed that Cook wouldn't be eligible. 2015 not so disappointed, because we weren't drafting at the top & I put him on par with Winston & Mariota. I understand both Winston & Mariota are way more gifted, physically than Cook, but when it comes to playing football, I put Cook right there. Again, I think Goff & Wentz are way more physically gifted, but Cook is the bridge between the super successful prototypical guys like Winston & Mariota from big schools/successful programs & the somewhat successful lower profile programs.
I'm just sold on Cook (of course, a sit down interview with any of these five guys may change my view completely, but from what they were able to do on the field).... I'm sold.
BigBull
Rookie
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Winston
Goff
Wentz
Mariota
Goff
Wentz
Mariota
Open and shut case, that ...
bah007
Hall of Fame
Goff - What can I say? I'm on record. I think Luck is the only guy in the past decade that came out of college as a better QB prospect.
Mariota - Despite his college system not preparing him very much I think he just seems to "get it" from the mental aspect of playing the position.
Wentz - Not sure he has the arm talent of Winston, but I think he's a safer player. I think he's mentally prepared as well but will take some time to adjust to speed.
Winston - Pure talent obviously there. His INT rate in college was a huge red flag for me. I still think it will be an issue in the pros, but he had a great first year
Mariota - Despite his college system not preparing him very much I think he just seems to "get it" from the mental aspect of playing the position.
Wentz - Not sure he has the arm talent of Winston, but I think he's a safer player. I think he's mentally prepared as well but will take some time to adjust to speed.
Winston - Pure talent obviously there. His INT rate in college was a huge red flag for me. I still think it will be an issue in the pros, but he had a great first year
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I was listening to 610 & Mike Meltzer had this trade offer to move up to #3 overall for whichever QB Cleveland didn't take. He figured it would cost Texans 1st this year & next plus this years & next years 2nd.
I would be a happy camper with either prospect for that cost
Might add both would fit in O'Brian offense.
I would be a happy camper with either prospect for that cost
Might add both would fit in O'Brian offense.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Honestly I'm not sure he would take any of them - if anything he seems to be very gun shy about taking a QB high and hitching his wagon to that guy. Seems very content to keep trying to "up cycle" the NFL reject pile. Maybe he figures that will buy him some coaching longevity, or maybe his ego just screams I can win with anyone! I don't know.
I would go all in on Goff and do what I had to move up and get him, failing that I would probably be looking at Cook. Either way given the Texans track record of finding a QB, I would still take Dak Prescott in the later rounds - I think he has it (gut feeling - seems like a high intangible, will have chip on shoulder, hard working kind of prospect).
Personally think we are all going to be very disappointed as I don't think our GM / Coach / Owner are going to make a splash or even a ripple. But that is just me and you don't want me to be the GM - at this point I would take a QB with every pick, I'd trade Cal Mcnair, 2 cheerleaders, my car (including the fuzzy dice) for a a 6th round pick - and take a QB with that too!
Goff
Winston
Wentz
Mariota
I've yet to see much of his play, so I really don't know. But the possibility is there. If I were to be his coach, everything I do from OTAs on would be to try & figure out how fast his mind is working.
I'd hate to "throw him to the wolves" but at the same time there's a point where a guy needs to be on the field.
I'm already concerned about drafting an FCS QB from a team that's been dominating at that level for years, that high in the draft. NDState is like the Alabama of FCS. Were they just that much more talented than everyone else? How much was Wentz?
Then guys like Flacco & Roethlisberger contributed ad rookies... How much talent is left on Cleveland's defense?
I'm feeling this. We're not a big splash/ripple kind of team.
Duane Brown
Brian Cushing
Kareem Jackson
Jj Watt
Whitney Mercilus
DeAndre Hopkins
JaDaveon Clowney
Kevin Johnson
Who is that guy... solid football player, well coached, mature. Not the guy you had in mind, but "makes sense"?
This is what you thought of these QBs coming out of college, right?
Mariota - Talent wise, production wise, intangibles, he has it all.
Goff - He may not have the tools the other guys have. But his acumen for football lifts him to their level.
Winston - The red flags regarding not only character but decision making scared me. He looks like he's trying to prove me wrong, though.
Wentz - From everything I've seen, the guy looks like the real deal. But level of competition, speed of the game, pressure situations...just a lot of unknowns.
Basically, any team is lucky to have any of them. For those that say colleges aren't producing good QBs, I would rebut by pointing to these guys.
Mariota - Talent wise, production wise, intangibles, he has it all.
Goff - He may not have the tools the other guys have. But his acumen for football lifts him to their level.
Winston - The red flags regarding not only character but decision making scared me. He looks like he's trying to prove me wrong, though.
Wentz - From everything I've seen, the guy looks like the real deal. But level of competition, speed of the game, pressure situations...just a lot of unknowns.
Basically, any team is lucky to have any of them. For those that say colleges aren't producing good QBs, I would rebut by pointing to these guys.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Winston
Mariota
Goff
Wentz
Mariota
Goff
Wentz
Shishkabob
All Pro
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Even though two have one year in the league experience, therefore edge, this question posed is still only a projection.
How good are you @ projecting, Texans too & how do you weigh factors to form your opinion (back it up) to be fairly certain it's accurate, in regards to QB position?
How good are you @ projecting, Texans too & how do you weigh factors to form your opinion (back it up) to be fairly certain it's accurate, in regards to QB position?
I was listening to 610 & Mike Meltzer had this trade offer to move up to #3 overall for whichever QB Cleveland didn't take. He figured it would cost Texans 1st this year & next plus this years & next years 2nd.
I would be a happy camper with either prospect for that cost
Might add both would fit in O'Brian offense.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat and sign Okung/L.Green in FA. Then draft a WR like Mitchell and North in rds 4-7. This would give Goff the weapons to succeed. Funny thing is the Texans have the cap room to make something like this happen. But they wont because bold moves like this would be too traumatic and that's not # Texans way.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
IF the Texans make a move for a QB will you give it a rest?
Depends on what they do.
Am I not allowed to make comments on how the Texans go about their business and the likelyhood of them making a bold move? This was meant to start discussion on if fans think the McNair's will make a bold move. I'm just using McNair's words togive fans a posible look into his mindset.
It's the wording I guess. I would love for them to make the move, but if they don't doesn't necessarily mean they didn't want or try to. It won't be because they think it's too traumatic or "not the Texans way"
Shishkabob
All Pro
Honestly I think outside of a miracle it would be impossible to move up into the top 6 spots in this draft for the Texans. We are simply to far back. I say top 6 because i expect both Goff and Wentz to go in the top 7. Some teams up there have hinted they are willing to trade sure. But that doesnt mean they want to trade to the back end of the first. If they stay in the top are just outside they are still looking at an elite level talent, barring some sort of fall that type of player wont still be available at 22. So there is a good chance that any reasonable trade would be rejected by another team since we are just to far back
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not saying you're wrong. But I dont think McNair has it in him to even try to pull a RGIII type trade. Speaking of that trade how much do you think taking the RGIII shot held the Skins back? They've made the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 yrs. Meanwhile the Texans have made the playoffs 3 times since their inception. (Just saying.) Why because they took QB's (Cousins as a backup plan) incase the RGIII plan didn't work out. Now this is an example of forward thinking.
I would be good with doing a RGIII type trade for Goff and picking Hack/Prescott/Adams etc... in the 3rd or 4th rd range since the Texans really aren't going to be SB contenders next yr anyways.
I would be ok with that type of deal, but it will cost far more to move up from 22. I'm hoping that McNair has finally seen the light. His statements at the end of the season certainly changed from last year. Remember last year it was "we don't need a elite Qb" and this year it was "we want a franchise QB"
I would be willing to give up 1-2 this yr, 1-2 in 2017, 1 in 2018 and KJ. The way I see it is Goff is at worst Matt Ryan and at best with improvement Rodgers. How many draft picks would you give up for Rodgers? Thiis is the equivalent of 4 firsts for the San Diego pick.
This comes down to how good do you think Goff can be?
I don't think we need to throw KJ in, but I'd be ok with the rest
I think he was really that naive... I wouldn't say stupid
delete
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Of course you are "allowed." You know that.
I'm asking a hypothetical. IF the Texans make a bold move for either Wentz or Goff will it change your mind that they don’t care about winning?
Shishkabob
All Pro
I think Goff can be really good, but there are a lot of really good QBs who cant win without a team around them. Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Tony Romo, Drew Brees, etc. Even the great Aaron Rodgers had his struggles this year when GB lost players to injury. You are talking giving up 6 potential starters or very good depth players on a team that lacks in depth for an unproven rookie. Think in 3 years from now how many of our current players will still be on this team? Who all are we going to have to replace? Unless you plan to magically have a ton of cap space and fill multiple holes through FA(which doesnt work most the time) this team will have no one on it outside of Goff, Hopkins, and JJ. i understand a QB is the most pivotal spot on the field, but it still takes a hole team to win championships, and even great QBs struggle on poor teams.
To me thats just to rich i wouldnt give it up, but i guess then people couldnt claim they werent trying to make our QB situation better
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well I already wanted Goff. Now I have 2 reasons.
With the 2nd rd picks like XSF/Swag?Montgomery etc.... how much would losing those picks really hurt the Texans?
The OL is very young, Brown would need to be replaced but you could still do that in the 3rd rd of the draft or FA. (Okung) Take a 5th rd flier on Wr,'s like North/Mitchell/Ayers/Braverman in the 4- 5th rd range.
You can find replacements for Wilfork/Cushing/Demps in rds 3-5 over a 3 yr period. The Texans will have to draft better and supplement their team in FA. (No more Rahim Moore's of the world.) I mean Quin/Crick were 4th rd picks.
The rest of the team is young and can grow with Goff.
Classic SteelB... you are one bad mamajamma.
The RGIII trade hasn't set the 'Skins back one bit. They've been to the playoffs 2 of the last 4 years. That's forward thinking.
The Texans have been to the playoffs 3 of the last 5... I mean 3 times in their whole existence. It's McNair's timid nature that's holding the Texans back.
Dude... you good.
30-0
Kj just signed his deal, chances are he's untradable. Or at least it will hurt us more than we're willing to bear.
Cushing & Graham would be nice pieces to trade, if we hadn't already cut Graham that is. Newton... Jjo. Guys like that.
That 30-0, my friend, was ALL O'Brien's doing.
From downgrading from Fitz to Hoyer to not even prepping Weeden to take over in that game.
McNair has his faults but that particular
belongs to O'Brien.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I believe that would be Wentz. His system was pro-style and included him having to read defenses and make line calls.
I think Goff's offense (and I could be wrong) was more of the new college type of offense. But Goff is a lot like Cutler was. He's a guy in college that you couldn't call a "winning" QB. He was the Bears starter for 3 seasons and only had a winning record (7-5) in his last season.
Wentz, otoh, was a 2 year starter. His senior season, he broke his hand and didn't complete the entire year. BUT, he went 15-1 as a Junior and won the National Championship. And even though he didn't play his entire senior season, he did win the Championship, and he won the Division I Player of the Year 2 years in a row.
Neither of these guys is a clear-cut, gotta have Franchise type of guy. They're both really good prospects, but... we'll see.
So did Cook & Hogan.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Thought we were just talking about Wentz and Goff (vs Mariota and Winston) at this point. Cook and Hogan is a different discussion.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
They all ran different offenses but you would be challenged to find any college offense that simulates a pro offense in terms of verbiage, formations, and concepts. Harbaugh/Shaw is really the only thing close.
Mariota is the only one I would initially cross out. A lot of half field reads in that offense with tons of spread concepts that are predicated on the zone read threat.
Winston played under center in a power run game but the passing game was more of an under center spread with Fisher calling in adjustments from the sideline.
Goff played in a shotgun spread but had full control at the line to audible and had full field reads but its still a shotgun based offense.
Wentz played mostly under center in a power running offense and had pretty much complete control at the line. They also incorporated spread elements but his offense was probably the closest to what you see in the pros.
Mariota is the only one I would initially cross out. A lot of half field reads in that offense with tons of spread concepts that are predicated on the zone read threat.
Winston played under center in a power run game but the passing game was more of an under center spread with Fisher calling in adjustments from the sideline.
Goff played in a shotgun spread but had full control at the line to audible and had full field reads but its still a shotgun based offense.
Wentz played mostly under center in a power running offense and had pretty much complete control at the line. They also incorporated spread elements but his offense was probably the closest to what you see in the pros.
My mistake. You're right.