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Why couldn't we trade with the Titans?

Y

YoungnotBush

Noob
I think a trade with the Titans is the best option.

But if the Texans pass on Vince and he goes to Tennessee, which is the most likely spot, that means the we have to play him twice a year AND beat him out every year for the division. Now, not only do we have to beat Peyton Manning twice a year, but also Vince. That doesn't sound to good for me.

Now think about this, because Tennessee wants Vince real bad.

For all you people that think Reggie is really the answer, then wouldn't the smart thing to do be to draft Vince and hold the Titans hostage, then trade him for the world to the titans.

New Orleans will still take Matt, because that is their biggest need. That means we could then draft Reggie at 3rd.

See I think Reggie will be around at 3. As long as we don't trade with anyone outside of 1-3, then we could get either one at 3, since Matt is pretty much a lock at 2.

Now I wouldn't care which one we got a the 3rd spot since we could still get alot by trading down, which we need so desperately.

The 3rd spot is ideally where we wan't to pick, not only to save money on the pick, but also, because we could get something for trading down and if Reggie is there, then take Reggie, if Vince is there then take Vince. If the Titans did decide to take Reggie then we could still get Vince at the 3.

Everybody might be able to argue one or the other, but no one can argue with one and another pick or an up and coming DL or OL.
 
The Titans like us, would trade down if a substantial trade offer was made. But if they keep the pick, they are taking Vince. They will draft QB, untherwise they will trade down. They have to field options to trade down, because Vince or Matt may not be there. Vince is not a for sure at the 3rd pick and if they showed to much excitement about him the Texans will hold them hostage.

It has been stated that while Fisher was watching tape on Benson last year, that he couldn't take his eyes of the guy handing him the ball.

Vince would be the ideal replacement for McNair, since they are similar style QB's and McNair could play a couple of years showing Vince the ropes.

A rebuilding team like they are, need a QB to hang their hat on, trust me on this one.
 
Why be held hostage? If I were sitting there at #3 looking at RBush, I would draft him, then, if I didn't want him, I would deal him for a lot from someone else - which means I should get 1st pick value for the third pick. Al Davis would offer up his first and 2nd (which is approximately equal value for the 3rd pick), then he would add a 3rd or a 2nd next year or players.
SF also would give up a 2nd and 3rd to get Bush. That is fair value for the 3rd pick and Tenn would love it. (but it is not fair value for the 1st pick)

So, if I were Tenn, I would not deal with Houston. Why give something up when you can sit there at 3 and get what you want anyway.
 
Plus, the Titans would also be happy getting D'Brickashaw Ferguson. They have no need to move up since they'll be sure of getting a QB or Ferguson. They have a few holes and would entertain offers of trading down. The Titans aren't going to be a team the Texans can trade down with.
 
Xman said:
Why be held hostage? If I were sitting there at #3 looking at RBush, I would draft him, then, if I didn't want him, I would deal him for a lot from someone else - which means I should get 1st pick value for the third pick. Al Davis would offer up his first and 2nd (which is approximately equal value for the 3rd pick), then he would add a 3rd or a 2nd next year or players.
SF also would give up a 2nd and 3rd to get Bush. That is fair value for the 3rd pick and Tenn would love it. (but it is not fair value for the 1st pick)

So, if I were Tenn, I would not deal with Houston. Why give something up when you can sit there at 3 and get what you want anyway.
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Did you say that the Titans would love to get SF's 2nd and 3rd picks instead of Bush and that would be a good deal, even if they are the first picks of the rounds, that don't make that a good deal.

And if what you say is true. What they really want is Bush, then it works in that aspect too, right?

Tennessee needs a young QB, worse than anything and Vince would fit the bill perfectly.
 
Xman said:
Why be held hostage? If I were sitting there at #3 looking at RBush, I would draft him, then, if I didn't want him, I would deal him for a lot from someone else - which means I should get 1st pick value for the third pick. Al Davis would offer up his first and 2nd (which is approximately equal value for the 3rd pick), then he would add a 3rd or a 2nd next year or players.
SF also would give up a 2nd and 3rd to get Bush. That is fair value for the 3rd pick and Tenn would love it. (but it is not fair value for the 1st pick)

So, if I were Tenn, I would not deal with Houston. Why give something up when you can sit there at 3 and get what you want anyway.
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They don't have much if any cap room. So they might be willing to get rid of some draft picks for someone they are really targeting.

One thing they can't do is take on a bunch of draft picks and players as stated. They have to make the ones they have count, not add additional picks. They are even being projected over the cap. They could give up their 1st 2nd and maybe a cap casualty. They have players that could be very interesting, ones like Bullock, Volek, Ben Troupe, Drew Bennett.

I don't know exactly what would work Cap-wise, but I am sure we could work something.

I guarantee you they have their eyes set on one of the top players, personally I think Vince, but one of them no doubt.

We have the #1 pick and have to use it like a hostage. Problem is most people are pretty sure we want Bush. Look at what the chargers have done in past drafts. They turned Vick into LT and Brees. They turned Manning into Shawne Merriman (roy) and traded the 5th round pick, and still have a first round pick this year for it.
 
Vince isn't a lock to go to the Titans. There have been reports that the Titans are taking a serious look at Cuttler.
 
Wait till the combine to talk about Cutler. Just because he was the best QB at the Senior Bowl does not make him a top 3 draft pick. If Vince is taken by the Texans or N.O., then they probably would trade down for Culter.

Every team is taking a serious look at Culter, just like they are every other player in the draft.
 
According to Chris Mortenson, he said a couple of days ago "don't be surprised if Fisher and the Titans, bypass Vince and select Cutler". Suposedly the Titans are extremely impressed with Cutler and are seriously taking a look at him. Cutler is moving fast up many peoples boards some GMs have him rated higher than both Matt and Vince.

Its also funny how you say just because he was the best QB at the Senior bowl that doesn't make him a top 3 pick. Well before the Rose Bowl Vince was a mid first rounder at best and you saw what that one game did for him.
 
Carr Bomb said:
According to Chris Mortenson, he said a couple of days ago "don't be surprised if Fisher and the Titans, bypass Vince and select Cutler". Suposedly the Titans are extremely impressed with Cutler and are seriously taking a look at him. Cutler is moving fast up many peoples boards some GMs have him rated higher than both Matt and Vince.
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Chris Mortenson has been saying Culter was better than Vince and Matt for some time now. I don't know how much stock I would put into him saying that, especially around a time when misdirection is a tool.
 
Here is what he said during the Senior Bowl,

On espn chris mortsensen wrote he does not mean to knock mel kiper, vince young, or matt leinhart but he strongly believes culter is the best qb in the draft. Also he is saying everyone at the senior bowl is kind of being quiet about him and not giving him props so his stock won't rise too much.

So now you are telling me all of a sudden the same coaching staff that was kind of being quiet at the Senior Bowl, is now saying that they want him.
 
Cutler is like VY to Titans fans. He's not as athletic, but he is from the area. Well, he went college there. I don't know where he grew up. I want to say Indiana or Illinois.

I agree that the Texans should use the #1 pick as a "hostage". I won't believe a word I hear from any expert or "source" close to the team until it is officially announced. The Texans have nothing to gain by announcing their intentions. The closer draft day comes the more likely the offers increase for a possible trade down. I think the most likely teams are the Jets, the Packers, and maybe the Raiders. I don't think the Texans will go lower than that. I'd actually be surprised if they went out of the top 5. The Titans don't have a lot to gain by trading up. If they want Young it's a good chance he will be there at #3. If he's not there, they can trade back and take Cutler or stay and take Ferguson.
 
Cutler has the privalege of being the only QB to really workout at the moment. Matt and Vince have been doing more the media circuit and when all is said and done Matt will overtake Cutler and Vince might also. Cutler is a strong armed guy that is likely more NFL ready than Vince right now, but no where near the ceiling that Vince has. I would be suprised if the Titans did not stay put and take either Vince or Ferguson and then use Volek as trade bait to acquire more picks in the draft.
 
Carr Bomb said:
According to Chris Mortenson, he said a couple of days ago "don't be surprised if Fisher and the Titans, bypass Vince and select Cutler". Suposedly the Titans are extremely impressed with Cutler and are seriously taking a look at him. Cutler is moving fast up many peoples boards some GMs have him rated higher than both Matt and Vince.

Its also funny how you say just because he was the best QB at the Senior bowl that doesn't make him a top 3 pick. Well before the Rose Bowl Vince was a mid first rounder at best and you saw what that one game did for him.
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It was 2 Rose Bowls for Vince by the way. And this started out talking about how to get Bush with the 3rd pick.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
Cutler is like VY to Titans fans. He's not as athletic, but he is from the area. Well, he went college there. I don't know where he grew up. I want to say Indiana or Illinois.

I agree that the Texans should use the #1 pick as a "hostage". I won't believe a word I hear from any expert or "source" close to the team until it is officially announced. The Texans have nothing to gain by announcing their intentions. The closer draft day comes the more likely the offers increase for a possible trade down. I think the most likely teams are the Jets, the Packers, and maybe the Raiders. I don't think the Texans will go lower than that. I'd actually be surprised if they went out of the top 5. The Titans don't have a lot to gain by trading up. If they want Young it's a good chance he will be there at #3. If he's not there, they can trade back and take Cutler or stay and take Ferguson.
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Now that is a more intelligent reply

Although I disagree with anything that says, "Culter is like VY"
 
YoungnotBush said:
It was 2 Rose Bowls for Vince by the way. And this started out talking about how to get Bush with the 3rd pick.
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If this is about taking Bush with the 3rd pick, I don't see how we could pull that off, because I don't think the Titans are desperate to take Vince, if he's there when the select they'll probably pull the trigger, if he's not, then they'll go a different route. I don't think there is anyway we could pull a trade with them, because we have no way to force their hand, if we take Vince and try to trade him for the 3rd pick. Tenn. will either take Cutler, draft D'Brick, or trade down.

BTW I know it was 2 Rose Bowls, but before the NC game scouts had Vince going in the middle of the first round.
 
Coach C. said:
Cutler has the privalege of being the only QB to really workout at the moment. Matt and Vince have been doing more the media circuit and when all is said and done Matt will overtake Cutler and Vince might also. Cutler is a strong armed guy that is likely more NFL ready than Vince right now, but no where near the ceiling that Vince has. I would be suprised if the Titans did not stay put and take either Vince or Ferguson and then use Volek as trade bait to acquire more picks in the draft.
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Fact: Cutler has not passed up either Matt or Vince.

Fiction: The Titans would rather have Cutler than Vince.

Fact: The Titans may opt to trade down and get settle with him, but they would not want to take him anywhere near that 3 spot. Who would want to trade up to that position? And could Tennessee really afford to trade down?

Tennessee will be over the cap again and can't afford to take on additional picks and players in a trade. They need to maximize their picks and maybe use them to trade up if necessary.
 
Carr Bomb said:
If this is about taking Bush with the 3rd pick, I don't see how we could pull that off, because I don't think the Titans are desperate to take Vince, if he's there when the select they'll probably pull the trigger, if he's not, then they'll go a different route. I don't think there is anyway we could pull a trade with them, because we have no way to force there hand, if we take Vince and try to trade him for the 3rd pick. Tenn. will either take Cutler, draft D'Brick, or trade down.

BTW I know it was 2 Rose Bowls, but before the NC game scouts had Vince going in the middle of the first round.
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They weren't watching him all year then. I have been talking Tennessee all year.

What is funny is now you think that taking Cutler with the 3rd pick is actually a viable option.
 
YoungnotBush said:
Fact: Culter has not passed up either Matt or Vince.

Fiction: The Titans would rather have Culter than Vince.

Fact: The Titans may opt to trade down and get settle with him, but they would not want to take him anywhere near that 3 spot. Who would want to trade up to that position? And could Tennessee really afford to trade down?

Tennessee will be over the cap again and can't afford to take on additional picks and players in a trade. They need to maximize their picks and maybe use them to trade up if necessary.
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My guess is if the Titans look to trade down it will be to acquire a couple of extra day one picks next season. By trading down and getting Cutler it would cost them less and they'd still get a good QB prospect. I agree that they would be foolish to take him at the 3.
 
YoungnotBush said:
They weren't watching him all year then. I have been talking Tennessee all year.

What is funny is now you think that taking Cutler with the 3rd pick is actually a viable option.
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It is a viable option seeing how people think he might not pass the Jets at the 4 spot. There are alot of teams that need QBs in the first 5 and according to your little scenario if we take Vince and try to force a trade with the Titans then they'll probably be inclined to take him at 3 since he might not make it passed the Jets at 4, its not that complicated.
 
YoungnotBush said:
Tennessee will be over the cap again and can't afford to take on additional picks and players in a trade. They need to maximize their picks and maybe use them to trade up if necessary.
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TN only appears over the cap because of a goofy contract with McNair which has a $1 mil buyout clause. In reality they will have some room to move around.

According to Reese, the club will have about $10 million in free agency to spend this offseason. Any new deals for quarterback Steve McNair, defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch and possibly center Justin Hartwig would be a part of that budget.

“It could be a little more or a little less, depending on how things work out, but for free agency, we should have about $10 million to spend on improving the club. That includes McNair and Vanden Bosch and whoever else we pursue in free agency,” Reese said.
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Link
 
Why doesn't anyone seem to think that a better version of Michael Vick isn't grabbing some attention from Teams around the league. A better Michael Vick with more marketability.

People seem to forget how weak the QB free agency is. And the fact that it is the best RB market since I can remember and the weakest QB market. Also it is a stronger draft for RB's with 4 RB's grading in the 1st round to go along with all the free agents.

I mean think about it, Jon Kitna and Josh McCown are the top free agents out there. QB has power in this league, look at San Diego, when they traded Vick for LT and Brees. Or when they traded Manning for Shawne Merriman, and phillip rivers and they will be able to trade Rivers for at least a 1st rounder or quality player.
 
Carr Bomb said:
It is a viable option seeing how people think he might not pass the Jets at the 4 spot. There are alot of teams that need QBs in the first 5 and according to your little scenario if we take Vince and try to force a trade with the Titans then they'll probably be inclined to take him at 3 since he might not make it passed the Jets at 4, its not that complicated.
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Once again Cutler is not an option at the 3.
 
YoungnotBush said:
It was 2 Rose Bowls for Vince by the way. And this started out talking about how to get Bush with the 3rd pick.
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i am pretty sure verybody knows it was two rose bowls for vincent young, but it was not until this year's rose bowl that vince young's draft status went from top 10 to top 3. i think you have misinterpreted what the poster was trying to say.
 
If any trading is happening then it looks like this:

We trade down to to #3 and Tn moves up to nab Leinert (re-unite him w/Chow). We gather extra pix, use your imagination.
We then have the luxary of taking whichever falls to us, Bush or Young, or trade down again.

Strong possibility that Carr gets traded too (his trade stock is as high as it ever was and with another dismal season w/40+ sax again we'd be lucky to get a 5th for him). Maybe to a team for their low 1st (Redskins?) or high 2nd (Cards, Vikes, Raiders,etc...) Like a previous poster stated, it's a weak FA class for QB's and with the amount of new coaches and the desire for new coaches to get a new/different QB when they take over, it's ripe timing.

Remember this, you must not stare into the light too much with what teams say and what reporters and so-called experts echo. It's draft time and some teams are purposely trying to get a players stock up so that maybe their guy will still be available, or to force a trade, or whatever. Believe nothing until the thursday of draft week.
 
I would take all this Mortenson talk with a HUGE grain of salt. Mort has never had a positive thing to say about Vince. As a matter of fact, he seems like the only one knocking him. The fact that he is up on his national stage, spewing his rumors kind of sucks. First Vince is not even as good as Matt freaking Jones, now he's not as good as David Cutler? I wonder what Mort has against him anyway? I'm waiting for Mort to say that his benchwarming son at Arkansas is better! He probably tells him that anyways.
 
YoungnotBush said:
They don't have much if any cap room. So they might be willing to get rid of some draft picks for someone they are really targeting.

One thing they can't do is take on a bunch of draft picks and players as stated. They have to make the ones they have count, not add additional picks. They are even being projected over the cap. They could give up their 1st 2nd and maybe a cap casualty. They have players that could be very interesting, ones like Bullock, Volek, Ben Troupe, Drew Bennett.

I don't know exactly what would work Cap-wise, but I am sure we could work something.

I guarantee you they have their eyes set on one of the top players, personally I think Vince, but one of them no doubt.

We have the #1 pick and have to use it like a hostage. Problem is most people are pretty sure we want Bush. Look at what the chargers have done in past drafts. They turned Vick into LT and Brees. They turned Manning into Shawne Merriman (roy) and traded the 5th round pick, and still have a first round pick this year for it.
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Lower picks cost less money. So, even if you have a few of them, they are going to cost less than what you would have had to pay the higher pick. Especially a QB.

Also (in reply to your other response), SF would give up their 2nd and 3rd (in addition to their 1st) to move up and take Bush. They need a RB (Barlow sucks and Gore will be the inside complement), Bush is a highly ranked RB, and the high school teammate thing with ASmith is good media. Tenn would take that offer at #3, but it is not a fair offer for #1.

Also, everyone is assuming that Tenn is desperate for a QB - that is wrong. They appear to be very happy with Volek. He has been solid when he has played.

I am not saying to not try to deal with them. But, as things stand now, it looks like the odds are against it - and we do NOT have them up against the wall in any way. But, if they go brain dead or fall totally in love with someone during the eval process (my money is on Lienert if it happens), then maybe they deal. But if they deal, they screw their cap and stall their rebuild. So, I doubt it happens.
 
Tennessee has absolutely no incentive to trade up. This draft is too talented at the top. They are in a great position. Not only will they get a great pick at #3, but they don't have the burden of trying to forecast who in the top 3 is really going to end up being the best.
 
The idea is based on this. As far as I am concerned, I don't care which one of the top 3 the Texans draft, as long as it is in the 3 spot. I think that anyone of these guys will and can help the team in some way or another. I think with the QB route, it gives the team more options and value. The RB route is more try and win this year. So anything in a trade to the 3 spot is a win for me and if played right maybe a little more than anything is possible.

But if we just take Reggie with the #1 pick, when Reggie comes in, he can help this team win 6 or 7 (anything more than 6 or 7 games would be a stretch) games, even with an upgraded line. How does that help this team though, if we don't make the playoffs? Reggie is the type of player that is more suited to add to an actually contending team. The Texans are not a viable playoff team, no matter who they take. So why not take something that can become the starter in 2 or 3 years max and play at least 10 more years? If we were just that close, I would say take Reggie hands down, but we are not.

Some people might try and argue the fact that we are not close to a playoff caliber team. Well I tell those people to look at what teams didn't make this year, namely the Chargers and Kansas City. Both those teams won 10 games and didn't make the playoffs. Also the fact that we play in the division of the Colts, that means that for at least the next 2 years, we are playing for a wildcard spot. That means we have to beat out teams like Kansas City, San Diego or Denver, also teams like Pitt. or Cincinnati. To tell you the truth we aren't better than the Bills or Miami or the Jets for that matter.
 
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