Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

[The Pencil Neck]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

Personally, I think Kubiak had an inkling. I think that's why he added the pistol stuff to the playbook.

BUT.

Like the Collinsworth and Michaels were saying during the broadcast, when you see Keenum in practice, he doesn't look like he's "The Guy". He turns it on when the lights come on. And that's a problem with most coaches. Most coaches aren't going to give a gamer like Keenum a chance unless they draft him high and have some pressure to see what they have.

And last year, Keenum was not ready. You could see the strides that he made in the offseason by how much better he played in preseason BUT... he didn't even out-play TJ with similar reps.

But.

With real bullets.

Wow.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

I forgot who it was that said it in the game thread, but they couldn't have put it any better. Schaub takes what the defense gives him, and Keenum takes what he wants.

 

[thunderkyss]

We need a larger sample size to determine if Keenum is the guy to build around in the future (and to let us know whether or not we need to draft a QB really high).

Why?

How many games did they need to decide to build around Luck? How many games did they need to decide to build around RG3? How many games did they need to decide to build around Wilson?

Why do you need more for Case? He's answered the questions around him before the draft, same as Luck, same as Wilson.

Yes, things are going to be different once teams get tape on him. Same as it was for Wilson, same as it was for RG3, same as it was for Luck.

Whatever might happen to Keenum in the future is no different than what could happen to Luck, RG3, or Wilson. I don't know what you remember about Carr, but he was billed as the best QB prospect since Rivers. Similar to the way Luck was looked at when he was drafted. But when I watched Carr his first two years, I was sold. It wasn't until year three that I noticed flaws that should have been corrected by then. It wasn't until year 4 that I thought all the questions were answered definitively.

Same way for Luck, Keenum, RG3, Wilson. They look good right now, but they're all given leeway, what they should know, what they shouldn't, mistakes are expected.

My mind's made up. I'm going BPA, unless it's a QB. Then I'm going with the second best available player.

 

[thunderkyss]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

My thoughts are they had it right. There were legit reasons why he wasn't drafted. Those are things that he worked on to fix.

Just like people say this guy or that guy needs to stay in college another year. Well, it doesn't help that guy if he's not running an NFL offense, or if he's playing in Conference USA. He's not going to get the experience of playing against NFL talent. He's not going to get the experience of running a pro offense.

Had we started Case last season, who knows what might have happened & where we might be today. It's nice to think we'd be in a better position & as long as we hate Kubiak, that's exactly what we'll think.

But to be objective about it & give Kubiak the credit he deserves... knowing QBs, making QBs better... it's probably more accurate to say he went about it the right way & what we're seeing from Keenum is because of that & not in spite of it.

 

[legacy_gt]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? .

kubiaks loyalty. keenum was beating out schaub and tj in training camp and preseason. case was always great except his combine performance. his play at UH wasn't a fluke. with time, case also learned to play better with dev from kubiak.

 

[thunderkyss]

Are you kidding me? He never even pulled Schaub. Schaub was forced to go out due to injury. His stubborness is what put the team in the hole....

Mark Sanchez got a whole year. That's the way they do it in the NFL. You don't go with the unproven when your starter is showing flashes & Schaub showed more flash than Sanchez had all year. The San Diego game, the Titans game, the Seattle game & even the Rams game, Schaub showed flashes of average play to really good play.

When Keenum struggles, the second half of the Chiefs game, the second half of the Colts game, he's going to be allowed to figure it out, to play his way through it. Even if it gets as bad as Schaub's struggles.

Only difference is that Keenum hasn't built up the collateral that Sanchez or Schaub has & only has 8 more games to secure his spot.

It's not stubborness, it's long term thinking.

& if we're saying the team gave up on him vs the Rams, they've still given up. What we saw yesterday was no different than what we saw against Seattle. Which was basically the same thing we saw against the Rams. If anything, it proves what some have been saying all along. The problem is a team problem, not a QB problem. When Kubiak said he had bigger problems than his QB play (SF at the half I think) this is what he was talking about.

Doesn't matter who our QB is, or how well our QB plays, this team isn't going to win a lot of games if the rest of the team don't play better. We've got better QB play, but we're still losing games this team should win.

 

[ObsiWan]

You know what worries me? Say we get the rest of the season as a sample size and guess what, Keenum looks like a good doggone starting quarterback. How did the organization miss on him for so long? Somebody in that Texans organization is going to have to CONVINCE me that they simply didn't know they had lightening in a bottle. Of course, this is the same organization that can't bear to part with Joe Marciano, so maybe there's a huge-ass blind spot for obvious talent/lack of talent from the GM on down.

I don't think we're talking about a miss in this case... err, instance.
First, I think it probably took Case two full camps to transition from whatever you call that offense he ran at U of H to adapt to the pro-style offense that the Texans run.
Second, Kubiak saw enough in him to give him a practice squad shot when no one else did. Everyone passed on him in the draft. I mean Everyone. Whether someone else would have picked him up had the Texans not made him an offer, is unknown. But they had all last season to pluck him off the practice squad and no one did that either.
Third, and this is just me, I think Kubiak promoted Case to #2 man, in his own head, during preseason. I think he was a little disappointed that Yates wasn't pressing Schaub for the starter's spot like Case was pressing him (Yates) for the backup job. Why he didn't just go ahead and make that call following preseason, remains a mystery to me.
So for me, it wasn't a miss. It was a matter of making sure the kid was ready for prime time. And that took some time.

 

[thunderkyss]

Third, and this is just me, I think Kubiak promoted Case to #2 man, in his own head, during preseason. I think he was a little disappointed that Yates wasn't pressing Schaub for the starter's spot like Case was pressing him (Yates) for the backup job. Why he didn't just go ahead and make that call following preseason, remains a mystery to me.

Let's say Kubiak named Case the #2 QB to start the season & everything went according to plan. Late December, we're 12-2, something happens to Schaub. Now our back-up QB becomes our starting QB & Kubiak is going into the play-offs for the third straight year with a virgin QB.

Kubiak was thinking Super Bowl.... I was thinking Super Bowl, & he was putting us in the best position to win it.

Still, I don't know how much of the play-book Case knew in the preseason. That was his first camp even running our plays. He looked fine in the preseason, basically playing streetball. We don't know how well he read the defenses, we don't know if his receivers were where they were supposed to be (most likely they weren't because these weren't our ones he was throwing to) we don't know how the line picked up their assignments, or the backs.

All the preseason does is put him in situations that he & the HC/OC/QB coach can talk about the following week. Find out what he was thinking, what he saw, & why he did what he did.

For all we know, Tj beat him straight up. Maybe scoring a 67 on the plays he was in & Case scoring a 49 on the plays he was in. We don't know. Only the guys in that room the following week knows.

 

[76Texan]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/04/refo-colts-texans-week-9/

Wade Smith had another bad game.

 

[Sigma]

Let's say Kubiak named Case the #2 QB to start the season & everything went according to plan. Late December, we're 12-2, something happens to Schaub. Now our back-up QB becomes our starting QB & Kubiak is going into the play-offs for the third straight year with a virgin QB.

Kubiak was thinking Super Bowl.... I was thinking Super Bowl, & he was putting us in the best position to win it.

Still, I don't know how much of the play-book Case knew in the preseason. That was his first camp even running our plays. He looked fine in the preseason, basically playing streetball. We don't know how well he read the defenses, we don't know if his receivers were where they were supposed to be (most likely they weren't because these weren't our ones he was throwing to) we don't know how the line picked up their assignments, or the backs.

All the preseason does is put him in situations that he & the HC/OC/QB coach can talk about the following week. Find out what he was thinking, what he saw, & why he did what he did.

For all we know, Tj beat him straight up. Maybe scoring a 67 on the plays he was in & Case scoring a 49 on the plays he was in. We don't know. Only the guys in that room the following week knows.

also, kubiak is so conservative that keenum should have pressed Schaub in order to be promoted #2.

I think it was a combination of what you say and a little of "let's not rule out TJ yet"

because putting him (Yates) #3 would have meant that

 

[santo]

This may be hard to believe but Keenum was actually fighting for the #1 spot. TJ was trying to keep his backup job.

 

[ObsiWan]

Let's say Kubiak named Case the #2 QB to start the season & everything went according to plan. Late December, we're 12-2, something happens to Schaub. Now our back-up QB becomes our starting QB & Kubiak is going into the play-offs for the third straight year with a virgin QB.

Kubiak was thinking Super Bowl.... I was thinking Super Bowl, & he was putting us in the best position to win it.

I guess by "virgin" you mean a QB w/o playoff experience...? So what? Do you really think Yates had shown enough to be a playoff winner? I don't.

Also, with us being 12-2 you'd have to also assume we had already clinched the division and homefield so Kubiak would have two games to get Keenum in a playoff-ready mental state. Of course this is your scenario and you could have both our losses being at the hands of the Colts and they're also 12-2 and win the tie-breaker - I know you're twisted that way. Still, our playoff position is locked and the last two games are training opportunities. I could actually see Kubiak giving Yates significant snaps just in case something happens to Keenum. That's the course of action that would put us in the "best position to win it" with Schaub gone for the year.

Still, I don't know how much of the play-book Case knew in the preseason. That was his first camp even running our plays. He looked fine in the preseason, basically playing streetball. We don't know how well he read the defenses, we don't know if his receivers were where they were supposed to be (most likely they weren't because these weren't our ones he was throwing to) we don't know how the line picked up their assignments, or the backs.

Case was "running our plays" last camp. I went to open camp, I saw him do it. So I don't know where you get that statement.

All the preseason does is put him in situations that he & the HC/OC/QB coach can talk about the following week. Find out what he was thinking, what he saw, & why he did what he did.

That's true for all QBs, Schaub included. They (HC, OC, QBs) always do a debrief to see what opportunities/points were "left on the field". That's every week, not just preseason. Preseason gives the brain trust a chance to evaluate who's better at it going into the year. I wish I could find the Kubiak quote, but I seem to recall him saying that Yates and Keenum were more 2A and 2B than #2 and #3.

For all we know, Tj beat him straight up. Maybe scoring a 67 on the plays he was in & Case scoring a 49 on the plays he was in. We don't know. Only the guys in that room the following week knows.

No we don't. That's why I prefaced my statement with "this may be just me"...

 

[leebigeztx]

Where is Leebigeztx, anyway? I'd like to hear his take on Keenum's fvcking fettuccini arm after last night's aerial display from Case's supposed limp member.

We still need a larger sample size on Case, though. Still, Leebigeztx's absence is about as curious as Schaub's was when Schaub wasn't available for post-game quotes.

I don't run bro. I may not check the board everyday cause I'm a business. If you read what I said about case both positive and negative I stand by them. To me ,as I said, his best assett is he will shoot his gun. To me that's vital because we see qbs like jason campbell who is scared to do so. Of all the throws, the best throw was the 3yd td to andre. The other 2 were schemed to get him away from the trash of the pocket. As I've said before,I'm not the kinda of guy who feels you should have to scheme the qb in such a manner. I like to see my qb throw deep from the well. In the grand scheme defensive disciplined teams will force you to do that. Ultimately,he's done what the coaches have asked and I hope he contiues his progress. This week vs the cards front 7 and backend will get a good test for him. After 4 games of tape, adjustment will be made and hopefully he fairs well.

 

[76Texan]

I don't run bro. I may not check the board everyday cause I'm a business. If you read what I said about case both positive and negative I stand by them. To me ,as I said, his best assett is he will shoot his gun. To me that's vital because we see qbs like jason campbell who is scared to do so. Of all the throws, the best throw was the 3yd td to andre. The other 2 were schemed to get him away from the trash of the pocket. As I've said before,I'm not the kinda of guy who feels you should have to scheme the qb in such a manner. I like to see my qb throw deep from the well. In the grand scheme defensive disciplined teams will force you to do that. Ultimately,he's done what the coaches have asked and I hope he contiues his progress. This week vs the cards front 7 and backend will get a good test for him. After 4 games of tape, adjustment will be made and hopefully he fairs well.

So when you said "Keenum is not an NFL Quarterback", is that positive or negative?

There's a scheme involved on every play in any NFL offense.
On the TD down the middle, Bethea didn't bite the play action fake.
Keenum saw him turn his head and put the ball where only Andre can get to.
The other long pass down the middle when Keenum scrambled to the right and came back to the inside was an off-schedule play; the Colts didn't buy that one either.


The TD pass to Hopkins was thrown from the well.

 

[leebigeztx]

So when you said "Keenum is not an NFL Quarterback", is that positive or negative?

There's a scheme involved on every play in any NFL offense.
On the TD down the middle, Bethea didn't bite the play action fake.
Keenum saw him turn his head and put the ball where only Andre can get to.
The other long pass down the middle when Keenum scrambled to the right and came back to the inside was an off-schedule play; the Colts didn't buy that one either.


The TD pass to Hopkins was thrown from the well.

To be clear, I said he doesn't have an nfl arm required to threaten certain quads of the field. I talked about the chiefs game and the rte conversion from a post to a flag or deep out. The.breaking routes outside the numbers. You watch enough tape or u say you do, so I don't have to explain that one. That being said, there are a lot of routes brady can't throw outside,yet he's very successful.

In another thread, you mentioned meeting me. That would be cool. Aside from training camp and games, I'll be at the senior bowl scouting qbs. Lol

 

[76Texan]

The 30yd pass to AJ down the left side line was thrown from the well, with pressure in his face, and he took the hit as he delivered the ball, too.

The same thing happened on the 31yd pass to Hopkins down the left side line in the 4th quarter.

On another throw, He barely missed AJ down the left side line as the ball bounced off AJ's hands.

He led Posey just long down the right side line into the endzone from the well.

 

[leebigeztx]

The 30yd pass to AJ down the left side line was thrown from the well, with pressure in his face, and he took the hit as he delivered the ball, too.

The same thing happened on the 31yd pass to Hopkins down the left side line in the 4th quarter.

On another throw, He barely missed AJ down the left side line as the ball bounced off AJ's hands.

He led Posey just long down the right side line into the endzone from the well.

U can't be this dense. Sideline shot plays don't require the same ball velocity as a 15yd out route or flag route.Those shot plays are timing/touch throws. U do understand that right?

 

[76Texan]

U can't be this dense. Sideline shot plays don't require the same ball velocity as a 15yd out route or flag route.Those shot plays are timing/touch throws. U do understand that right?

This is what I was responding to:

Of all the throws, the best throw was the 3yd td to andre. The other 2 were schemed to get him away from the trash of the pocket. As I've said before,I'm not the kinda of guy who feels you should have to scheme the qb in such a manner. I like to see my qb throw deep from the well.

I'm not talking about arm strength here.