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Who are our scouts?

Scouting is an art, but yet over hyped in my opinion. I'll spend more on one asst coach who is a master at developing a player than on a hot shot scouting department. The idea is that anyone in the pros should have some talent it just depends how you mold and shape it.
 
It doesn't matter if you have scouts when you just draft the guys the coaches like at the Sr bowl....ugh.
 
A friend of mine is actually the pro scout for the texans (rob kisiel), and from all he has told me and i have seen, they have one of the best scouting departments there is.....its alll coaching friends, all coaching
 
last i heard.. we employed one of the largest scouting teams in the league.. if not THE largest.
 
Vinny said:
It doesn't matter if you have scouts when you just draft the guys the coaches like at the Sr bowl....ugh.
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That's it, right there: Failure to accept expert input at crucial times when it comes to talent. Look, someone on the scouting staff found CC Brown, and someone found Jerome Mathis, and all the other talent Houston picked up from small schools over the past couple of years. It's not like Capers spends his week watching game film from every single NCAA school (must...avoid...making...obvious....quip.....) searching for talent. But when he apparently overrides those scouts in favor of players found in one-time meetings at unrealistic all-star games, I think he's missing out on what he trusts the scouts to do.

That said, if those guys had turned out to be studs and this team was winning, he'd be labeled a genius with an eye for talent. No risk of that now.
 
swtbound07 said:
A friend of mine is actually the pro scout for the texans (rob kisiel), and from all he has told me and i have seen, they have one of the best scouting departments there is.....its alll coaching friends, all coaching
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Sounds to me like your saying they have the players your friend wanted them to get, meaning that, "....it's all coaching, friends." I hope so, because I believe at some point we will still have Casserly, but Capers will be gone.
 
swtbound07 said:
A friend of mine is actually the pro scout for the texans (rob kisiel), and from all he has told me and i have seen, they have one of the best scouting departments there is.....its alll coaching friends, all coaching
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Well, of course, he is not going to admit "My department and I are mediocore at best at our jobs."
 
If the scouting department is split between pro and college, the pro side has done an awful job, in tandem with our bean counters, to date - Wade, PBuch, Greenwood, Riley. Robaire is not where I thought he would be, but I still like what he can bring to the table.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If the scouting department is split between pro and college, the pro side has done an awful job, in tandem with our bean counters, to date - Wade, PBuch, Greenwood, Riley. Robaire is not where I thought he would be, but I still like what he can bring to the table.
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IMO Robaire looks like he is starting to come along this season and Greenwood looks to me like he is improving.
 
texan279 said:
IMO Robaire looks like he is starting to come along this season and Greenwood looks to me like he is improving.
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That's the problem.... these players should not be "coming along" or "improving" at this point in their careers.
 
the wonger need food said:
That's the problem.... these players should not be "coming along" or "improving" at this point in their careers.
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Robaire came in from a 4-3, and Greenwood is probably still learning as well.
 
the wonger need food said:
Well, this is Robaire's 2nd year with the team. If it has taken him 28 games to finally "come along" that is an issue.
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Probably an issue with the coaching...
 
the wonger need food said:
Without a doubt...
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And the more I think about it the more it irks me...We have talent on this team and it's going to waste, not just AJ and Carr, but DRob, Robaire, Peek, Babin, I could go on and on. If I was DRob I would have almost been insulted having to cover the #2 WR in TJ when we played the Bengals. He should be going one on one with the best WR's in the league. The scemes and playcalling here is horrible.
 
If you take a look around at other NFL teams, they seem to get good production out of young, relatively unknown players, particularly on the O-line. We don't. Couple that with the players that have left here and performed well on other teams (Foley, McCree, Wright, maybe more) and I just can't see how the coaching isn't responsible for that, to a large degree. In order to be a winning team, you have to get solid production from guys that are not Pro Bowlers. The Colts are starting two 2nd-year offensive linemen and keeping Manning clean. The Chargers are starting three guys on the O-line in the 3rd year or less and doing a pretty good job. The Browns are starting a 3rd year center that's doing a good job and Trent Dilfer is looking decent. The Bengals have completely reshuffled the middle of their line after losing both Centers and with people playing out of position, doing fine. Our youngest starter is in his 4th year (Pitts, unless I'm missing someone) and we're getting poor production from all of them. And Pitts is still our best lineman. I have a hard time believing that we've missed on talent evaluation that many times.

Also on the coaching department, and I wasn't aware of this until this AM, the Texans had Clark Haggins in here for a workout and declined to work out a deal with him. He's doing quite well for the Steelers now.
 
the wonger need food said:
The Texans had the 3rd highest total payroll of any team in 2004. Not sure where they rank in 2005, but it's probably very close to the top. It looks like they have 15 scouts... Texans Front Office
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They should have a high front office payroll since they have a high revenue stream compared to other teams. I'm glad to see them rolling the money back into operations.

Caveat: As long as the money is spent wisely.
 
eriadoc said:
The Chargers are starting three guys on the O-line in the 3rd year or less and doing a pretty good job.
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From what I remeber about that draft day, the Chargers were set to take Wand with their pick a couple of slots after the one the Texans used to take him. I wonder what he could have done in their system with their coaching - they must have seen something in him too.
 
eriadoc said:
If you take a look around at other NFL teams, they seem to get good production out of young, relatively unknown players, particularly on the O-line. We don't. Couple that with the players that have left here and performed well on other teams (Foley, McCree, Wright, maybe more) and I just can't see how the coaching isn't responsible for that, to a large degree. In order to be a winning team, you have to get solid production from guys that are not Pro Bowlers. The Colts are starting two 2nd-year offensive linemen and keeping Manning clean. The Chargers are starting three guys on the O-line in the 3rd year or less and doing a pretty good job. The Browns are starting a 3rd year center that's doing a good job and Trent Dilfer is looking decent. The Bengals have completely reshuffled the middle of their line after losing both Centers and with people playing out of position, doing fine. Our youngest starter is in his 4th year (Pitts, unless I'm missing someone) and we're getting poor production from all of them. And Pitts is still our best lineman. I have a hard time believing that we've missed on talent evaluation that many times.

Also on the coaching department, and I wasn't aware of this until this AM, the Texans had Clark Haggins in here for a workout and declined to work out a deal with him. He's doing quite well for the Steelers now.
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I think the Chargers had 2 rookies on the O line last season and look what Brees and LT did. And the Jags had Kenny Wright on Chad Johnson some of the game last Sunday and from what the Jags fans are saying he shut Johnson down. Now I don't know how many plays or how long he covered Johnson though.
 
the wonger need food said:
The Texans had the 3rd highest total payroll of any team in 2004. Not sure where they rank in 2005, but it's probably very close to the top. It looks like they have 15 scouts... Texans Front Office
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In pure numbers 15 scouts is on the very high end.
 
texan279 said:
And the Jags had Kenny Wright on Chad Johnson some of the game last Sunday and from what the Jags fans are saying he shut Johnson down.
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He had one less reception than in the Texans' game so if he was shut down by Wright he was shut down by Buchanon and Petey. Truth is he had mediocre days both games.
 
infantrycak said:
He had one less reception than in the Texans' game so if he was shut down by Wright he was shut down by Buchanon and Petey. Truth is he had mediocre days both games.
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He only covered Chad part of the game, Rashean Mathis also covered him during the game.
 
the thing is, scouts can only tell you who they think has talent, they cant force you to draft anyone....i happen to know there was a bitter fight about jason babin on draft day, but in the end, the GM has last call
 
swtbound07 said:
the thing is, scouts can only tell you who they think has talent, they cant force you to draft anyone....i happen to know there was a bitter fight about jason babin on draft day, but in the end, the GM has last call
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And what was the bitter fight over?--whether to draft Babin or whether to give that much up for him?
 
whether or not to even draft him....from what i understand some of the scouts thought cc had lost his mind, but some would have mortgaged the franchise for him
 
swtbound07 said:
whether or not to even draft him....from what i understand some of the scouts thought cc had lost his mind, but some would have mortgaged the franchise for him
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Casserly had lost his mind, or Capers? And lost whomever's mind over the player or the price?
 
At issue here should be the amount of input the coaches (HC too) have had in the picking of talent. The GM has to work with the coaches in order make the coaches gameplan work. The fact that the offensive line sucks is pretty much is a product of Palmer, as is the additions of Smith, Buchannon, Babin and the rest, a product of Capers & Fangio.
 
I have said it before and I will say it again. The problems start when the coaches fall in love with a SPECIFIC player and then make pleas to the GM that they just HAVE to have him. PBuc type moves happen when that is the case. The coaches should say "We need this TYPE of player" and then the GM should get the best one available and affordable, based on scouting and coach evaluations. Anytime you are dealing you have to willing to walk away otherwise you jam your self up.
 
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