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What's up with our offense??

thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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We didn't do any of the things we thought we would with our first team offense. No zone blocking with the run game. Actually all night, it was straight up hardnose running up the gut. there were no cutback lanes or any stretching of the offensive line. More traps, and one gaps and conventional run techniques.

And Carr was asked to work from a stationary pocket...... no bootlegs, no moving pocket.... no confusing the defensive line at all.

Because of that, I think there was definite pressure on the QB, and while I won't say David handled the pressure extremely well, he didn't look at all bad. there was no leaving the pocket early..... in fact, he might have stayed longer than he should have. But he stayed in and took some hits because he was looking downfield.

They Kept flashing to shots of Sherman on the sideline, and this "scheme" we ran with the first team was as anti-Denver-zone-blocking as I'd care to see us play. hopefully, Kubiak and Sherman got that crap out of their system, and go back to what we were doing last week & what they allowed Sage to do in the second half.

Anybody else notice this??
 
Grid said:
no I saw zone blocking and rollouts....[/quote]

I thought there was only one rolleout????? But, TK has a point. Seemed like we held a much more stationary pocket than last week. Might have just been something they wanted to work on in a game situation so that it would be ready when they need/want to use it, or maybe they aren't tipping their hand on what they will be doing, like maybe next week when Kubes tries to beat his old buddy Shanny.
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I chalk it up to preseason. we aren't going to show everything and we are going to work on certain aspects of offense/defense
 
I've watched the game twice...... there were maybe two or three zone blocking run plays, and they were in the second half.... if they were trying to do it in the first half, the OLine really screwed the pooch. The line was pretty stationary.

And David left the pocket what two times?? the one completion to Cook, and I think he threw one away..... was there another that I missed?? and were those rollouts/bootlegs, or broken plays?? I thought they were broken plays.
 
Wolf said:
I chalk it up to preseason. we aren't going to show everything and we are going to work on certain aspects of offense/defense
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BradK10 said:
PRESEASON folks. Remember that.

This is not the time to belly ache/worry about playcalling.
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I see.... I didn't think asking why we aren't doing the things we said we were going to do in the preseason was belly aching.

Sorry.
 
edo783 said:
Grid said:
no I saw zone blocking and rollouts....[/quote]

I thought there was only one rolleout????? But, TK has a point. Seemed like we held a much more stationary pocket than last week. Might have just been something they wanted to work on in a game situation so that it would be ready when they need/want to use it, or maybe they aren't tipping their hand on what they will be doing, like maybe next week when Kubes tries to beat his old buddy Shanny.
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I noticed this stuff too. I am guessing that Kubiak knows what Carr looks like doing the bootlegs and wanted to see him from a more stationary pocket.

Denver usually doesn't show much preseason, and I don't know how much Kubiak is really showing.
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thunderkyss said:
I see.... I didn't think asking why we aren't doing the things we said we were going to do in the preseason was belly aching.

Sorry.
Click to expand...

It was said this would be stuff the offense would include. Not necessarily shown in each preseason game.
 
thunderkyss said:
We didn't do any of the things we thought we would with our first team offense. No zone blocking with the run game. Actually all night, it was straight up hardnose running up the gut. there were no cutback lanes or any stretching of the offensive line. More traps, and one gaps and conventional run techniques.

And Carr was asked to work from a stationary pocket...... no bootlegs, no moving pocket.... no confusing the defensive line at all.

Because of that, I think there was definite pressure on the QB, and while I won't say David handled the pressure extremely well, he didn't look at all bad. there was no leaving the pocket early..... in fact, he might have stayed longer than he should have. But he stayed in and took some hits because he was looking downfield.

They Kept flashing to shots of Sherman on the sideline, and this "scheme" we ran with the first team was as anti-Denver-zone-blocking as I'd care to see us play. hopefully, Kubiak and Sherman got that crap out of their system, and go back to what we were doing last week & what they allowed Sage to do in the second half.

Anybody else notice this??
Click to expand...

You do realize this is preseason right? And you are complaining after they rolled up over 150 yards on the ground, and after the best two offensive performances in our preseason history? They have already said they will use some man blocking techniques. They will not use 100% zone. Why wouldn't they work on them in the preseason? They also wanted to see him working in the pocket. This time of year is not about fooling the opposition, it's for working on your own game, finding the right pieces to the puzzle, what works, and what doesn't etc. Weren't you the one complaining they weren't blitzing enough? Hilarious. :francis:
 
Porky said:
You do realize this is preseason right? And you are complaining after they rolled up over 150 yards on the ground, and after the best two offensive performances in our preseason history? They have already said they will use some man blocking techniques. They will not use 100% zone. Why wouldn't they work on them in the preseason? They also wanted to see him working in the pocket. This time of year is not about fooling the opposition, it's for working on your own game, finding the right pieces to the puzzle, what works, and what doesn't etc. Weren't you the one complaining they weren't blitzing enough? Hilarious. :francis:
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#1..... we're going to have to define complaining.... my last post on blitzing, was that I've seen alot more blitzing these past two weeks than I recall ever seeing before...... If our offense was surprised to see the amount, of blitzing, and a few all-out blitzes at that...... then I don't blame them. This is the second week of the preseason.

#2...... I can understand working in straight-up run blockikng, & I expect to see a traditional pocket more than bootlegs, roll-outs, and moved pockets. But I was simply puzzled at what the offensive gameplan was with David in the game.

But when Sage came in, they allowed him to move around alot more, and give the recievers time to get open... or basically make some of his own luck.

I know there are some people praising Sage again this week, while condemning Carr..... if they'd look at how the game was played, Sage should have had a better game..... he was allowed move around, and freelance a little more.

#3...... I am not complaining about anything.... this thread was started, to ask a question, and discuss our offensive strategy........

I'm not complaining.
 
1. I agree, not nearly as much zone blocking as last week or as we'll see during the season. Not sure why that is. May have something to do with the Wand/Spencer rotation. Don't know.

2. Not as many rollouts but I did see a decent number, roughly four or five, with Carr in the first half and even more with Rosenfels. I think the Texans (Kubiak and Co.) wanted to look more at the receivers and decided to emphasize a bit more drop back/playaction-drop back to throw that ball on more timing routes or quick posts.

3. Seems like we blitzed more with the first and second teams than with the third team. Might be a lack of complete confidence in the young guys trying to make the team, plus we have some injuries in the secondary to begin with.
 
thunderkyss said:
We didn't do any of the things we thought we would with our first team offense. No zone blocking with the run game. Actually all night, it was straight up hardnose running up the gut. there were no cutback lanes or any stretching of the offensive line. More traps, and one gaps and conventional run techniques.

And Carr was asked to work from a stationary pocket...... no bootlegs, no moving pocket.... no confusing the defensive line at all.

Because of that, I think there was definite pressure on the QB, and while I won't say David handled the pressure extremely well, he didn't look at all bad. there was no leaving the pocket early..... in fact, he might have stayed longer than he should have. But he stayed in and took some hits because he was looking downfield.

They Kept flashing to shots of Sherman on the sideline, and this "scheme" we ran with the first team was as anti-Denver-zone-blocking as I'd care to see us play. hopefully, Kubiak and Sherman got that crap out of their system, and go back to what we were doing last week & what they allowed Sage to do in the second half.

Anybody else notice this??
Click to expand...
No I saw it, there is not going to be holes everywere for rbs to run everytime, all there has to be is one good one and there was yesterday.

Dang Vernond, thats how you score on the goaline baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I agree with the previous poster: We were working on timing patterns, quick hit plays, etc.

Perhaps the thing that has caused Denver soe problems in the postseason is that they are too dedicated to their zone blocking and bootlegs? Maybe Kubiak is trying to diversify the players so that we can adapt as needed.

I know this much: The Denver style worked a heckuva' lot better than the Green Bay style (in this game against St. Louis).

Did you see the highlights of the Denver game? They used the bootleg to perfection. Twas nasty.
 
I kinda think they had scripted the first 15 or so plays so that they could work on some stuff that they wanted to see and according to our guys didn't spend much/any time on blitz pick up in practice or were gaming for the Rams to be blitzing a lot. Not sure why, it was in all the papers.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
I agree with the previous poster: We were working on timing patterns, quick hit plays, etc.

Perhaps the thing that has caused Denver soe problems in the postseason is that they are too dedicated to their zone blocking and bootlegs? Maybe Kubiak is trying to diversify the players so that we can adapt as needed.

I know this much: The Denver style worked a heckuva' lot better than the Green Bay style (in this game against St. Louis).

Did you see the highlights of the Denver game? They used the bootleg to perfection. Twas nasty.
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Every big hole Morency ran thru was good ole run blocking.... no one cut and go.... it was all trust the whole will be there, and follow your blocker...
 
TransplantTexan1 said:
1. I agree, not nearly as much zone blocking as last week or as we'll see during the season. Not sure why that is. May have something to do with the Wand/Spencer rotation. Don't know.
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That may be....... I'm also thinking it might be seeing Lundy/Morency in traditional offenses....... Morency looked really good.
 
I think they were wanting to see improvement versus last year. Maybe see where the bleeding comes. See how Carr worked in the pocket. See how the RB's blocked. See how the linemen held up. If so, it sounds like there has been improvement.

I do not think they were trying to keep the zone blocking a secret. Everyone knows we are going to be zone blocking. They might be saying we can do both. If Denver is good against zone blocking and if Kubiak is investing a lot in beating Sherman, they might have been working on having alternatives.

Kubiak talks a alot about going with the teams strengths. Maybe it was a comparison to see if the team is better with this new scheme in a game situation. I did not get to see the game, but it sounds like the answer is no.
 
jdog said:
I think they were wanting to see improvement versus last year. Maybe see where the bleeding comes. See how Carr worked in the pocket. See how the RB's blocked. See how the linemen held up. If so, it sounds like there has been improvement.

I do not think they were trying to keep the zone blocking a secret. Everyone knows we are going to be zone blocking. They might be saying we can do both. If Denver is good against zone blocking and if Kubiak is investing a lot in beating Sherman, they might have been working on having alternatives.

Kubiak talks a alot about going with the teams strengths. Maybe it was a comparison to see if the team is better with this new scheme in a game situation. I did not get to see the game, but it sounds like the answer is no.
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If you read Kubiak's presser, it appears that they are using the preseason to try different stuff out, instead of experimenting too much during the season. He doesn't talk about it specific to the offensive line scheme, but I am guessing it applies there too.
 
Texans_Chick said:
If you read Kubiak's presser, it appears that they are using the preseason to try different stuff out, instead of experimenting too much during the season. He doesn't talk about it specific to the offensive line scheme, but I am guessing it applies there too.
Click to expand...

What do you make of the references to doing better on the front end? I did not see the game last night, and this issue actually relates to the topic too. Is he talking about Carr being nervous early in games or something?
 
I am not sure if Morency deserves all of the credit and Lundy deserves all of the blame, but VM did make the adjustments in picking up the blitz.

This is just a thought of mine, no facts behind it, but I wonder if we stayed with this non zone blocking, non boot leg offense becuase the coaches noticed more work was needed. And I do think improvement was made.
 
The offense has to be versitile. Using the preaseason is what this is for, to try new things and see how the offense can handle it.

How many times did David run early last year, I am sure the game plan this past game was to keep David in the pocket and trust his lineman. Plus the lineman have to get a feel for how long it takes David to make reads in gametime situations so they can work hard to keep that pocket tight before it collapses.

I played offensive line and there is nothing worse than busting your butt and you QB runs before you even get a chance to create and hold a pocket to protect him.

If the Oline knows that David has faith in them to hold the pocket, they will produce better results because they will not be thinking in the back fo their heads, "did he run yet?"
 
The players had some extended time off Sunday after getting back from St. Louis in the wee hours. I was able to rub elbows a little bit and asked about our offense. I commented on how different the offense looked compared to previous years. I was talking about how much movement (i.e. lineman going to the second level very quickly) and coordination the new offense had.

I was told that we had similar plays called last year, but if the defense was in a set that made the play difficult they would abandon it. I guess that is where some of those audibles to basic runs came from. This year they run the play unless the defense is really* stacked against it.

I like it. We are trying to impose our will.



*I don't have a measurable definition for "really" in this case.
 
IMO, we can look for teams we play to blitz us like crazy this year because they know Carr can not handle the pressure. PERIOD. Teams do not need to sack Carr to make him 'totally ineffective,' and they are going to be relentless. It's not that a team can not do something to minimize or eliminate the blitz because a team can--Carr can not.

When a team blitzs, it means there are fewer defenders in pass coverage which means there is a greater likelihood that someone is open==often wide open--in the secondary. Why blitz? The other team is 'gambling' they can destroy your QB before he can find that open receiver and burn them. A 'sharp' QB with a strong arm can have a 'field day' against the blitz. And, when he does, away goes all the blitzing and QB pressure is minimized.

This point is illustrated by the quote from Kubiak about Carr's play Sat in the 1st qtr against the Rams. Obviously, from Kubiak's inference about 'big oppurtunities,' Carr had open receivers down field but failed to get the ball to them. Note. Kubiak did not say (a) Carr did not have time or (b) no one was open--his quote clearly indicates a 'play' was there.

IMO, this inability to deal with the pressure has been a huge weakness in Carr's play and has contributed to-not only the sack issue-but lost oppurtunities down field. I believe Kubiak changed up the offensive schemes Sat to see how Carr would do in a drop-back situation against the Rams. Certainly, Kubiak has been working on this pressure problem with Carr in practice but got 'negative' results from that effort Sat.

Now, more than ever, Kubiak has to be very concerned about Carr's pressure issue. Why?...because pressure is part of the 'game' that is not going to go away. A team has to deal with that pressure and still get desired results. In his first 4 years, Carr has failed miserably to deal with pressure and most of that failure has been blamed on things (players/schemes/coaching) beyond his control.

It's a new day. Those things beyond Carr's control have been eliminated/minimized but-so far-Carr's results are the same. IMO, we will never know how good Carr could have been if he does not learn to deal with the pressure. IMO, this is and has been a much greater problem than any of us has imagined and it's not going to go away unless Carr 'beats it.':)


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4129861.html
 
tsip said:
It's a new day. Those things beyond Carr's control have been eliminated/minimized but-so far-Carr's results are the same. IMO, we will never know how good Carr could have been if he does not learn to deal with the pressure. IMO, this is and has been a much greater problem than any of us has imagined and it's not going to go away unless Carr 'beats it.':)


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4129861.html
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I'm with you for most of that TSIP, but to say Carr can't, or we'll never know is a little much. We really don't know. I liked the fact that when David messes up, our coach calls him out...... Last year you'd hear stuff about execution or how poor the line did, or whatever..... If I were on that team, I know it would be hard for me not to have some animosity towards a certain someone, who can't do no wrong....... yet I'm busting my butt, and I've got to sit on a bench...

But I'm with you 100% teams are going to overload the line almost every down, until Carr shows that he can burn them..... Big deal if he drops it off for a 3 or 4 yard gain every now and again.

But like I said earlier, it wasn't just David that Kubiak was talking about. Andre Dropped that first pass where we got the roughing the passer call. Moulds watched a ball drop three yards in front of him. So what are you going to do??
 
thunderkyss said:
Every big hole Morency ran thru was good ole run blocking.... no one cut and go.... it was all trust the whole will be there, and follow your blocker...
Click to expand...

In my opinion, those few BIG gains you are speaking of are to be credited with what I call "The blind squirrel theory." Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then. Same way in running plays: With that straight-ahead blocking approach, you might get the defensive line to make a mistake and produce a hole every now and then, but zone blocking (IMO) gives your runner a better chance at picking from perhaps 1, 2, or 3 or more different holes to exploit rather than the 1 you might get from regular blocking.

To me, there were LOTS of running plays using the straight-ahead blocking sheme that got swallowed up before the play even developed. Morency and the o line just happened to exploit the one or two precious moments that the straight-ahead blocks provided...but that-in-of-itself is why I like zone blocking better: The average amount of running plays that we can have success with is greater than regular trap blocking.

That's my two cents.
 
I don't know where this he wasn't running behind Zone blocking stuff comes from....It doesn't have to be a stretch to be considered ZB...It can be a str8 ahead or off tackle run and still be Zone Blocked...Besides traps, and special plays like that I'll bet all of our plays are zone blocked and not man blocked...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't know where this he wasn't running behind Zone blocking stuff comes from....It doesn't have to be a stretch to be considered ZB...It can be a str8 ahead or off tackle run and still be Zone Blocked...Besides traps, and special plays like that I'll bet all of our plays are zone blocked and not man blocked...
Click to expand...

They mentioned during the game that much of the 1st team blocking and playcalling was from Mike Sherman and he was using some traditional old Green Bay plays which weren't strictly ZB. I'd have to go look at the game again though to say all Morency's bigger runs came off those plays.
 
On the subject of rollouts...


Last night on Sunday Night Football Madden said that: "If anything is a gimme in pre-season, it's a QB rollout."


Don't know if this means anything to anyone...but perhaps Kubiak is avoiding from using it too much because it's not actually covered too well in pre-season. Madden was saying that teams tend to let the WR's cross over the middle of the field while a QB is rolling out, and that such a pass is the 'gimme' he was referring to. Maybe Kubiak doesn't want Carr to get used to having an open pass everytime?
 
TheCD said:
On the subject of rollouts...


Last night on Sunday Night Football Madden said that: "If anything is a gimme in pre-season, it's a QB rollout."


Don't know if this means anything to anyone...but perhaps Kubiak is avoiding from using it too much because it's not actually covered too well in pre-season. Madden was saying that teams tend to let the WR's cross over the middle of the field while a QB is rolling out, and that such a pass is the 'gimme' he was referring to. Maybe Kubiak doesn't want Carr to get used to having an open pass everytime?
Click to expand...

That was the spin I was waiting for someone to post. And at this moment the only I concur with in regards to Carr.
 
tsip said:
IMO, we can look for teams we play to blitz us like crazy this year because they know Carr can not handle the pressure. PERIOD. Teams do not need to sack Carr to make him 'totally ineffective,' and they are going to be relentless. It's not that a team can not do something to minimize or eliminate the blitz because a team can--Carr can not.
Click to expand...

I agree that teams are going to blitz and put pressure on us until Carr can prove that he can take advantage of it. I'm not convinced that Carr can't deal with it but my biggest fear (and I've said this a few times) is that Carr has been mentally damaged from the punishment and won't be able to recover. What I've seen in the pre-season so far is good and bad. I think Carr looks to the dump-off's too quickly. BUT... from what I've seen, he's got his eyes downfield and he doesn't seem to be watching the rush. And that's a good thing. Guys who've taken too much punishment and start to get scared usually stop looking downfield.

So... I hope that Kubiak & Co. can heal any scars that Carr has from the previous few years and I'm pretty sure he can.

OTOH, this isn't just a weakness of Carr's. The reason so many teams play aggressive defense is because they believe they can rattle most QB's. That's why teams like the Eagles have been so tough over the past few years. That's why the Chargers and Steelers were able to beat the Colts. If you've got the personnel, you can be successful blitzing almost anyone.
 
TheCD said:
On the subject of rollouts...


Last night on Sunday Night Football Madden said that: "If anything is a gimme in pre-season, it's a QB rollout."


Don't know if this means anything to anyone...but perhaps Kubiak is avoiding from using it too much because it's not actually covered too well in pre-season. Madden was saying that teams tend to let the WR's cross over the middle of the field while a QB is rolling out, and that such a pass is the 'gimme' he was referring to. Maybe Kubiak doesn't want Carr to get used to having an open pass everytime?
Click to expand...

Madden went on to say that during the regular season teams take that play away. He didn't know why they didnt take it away during pre-season games. In other words, that play will not be a gimme during the regular season.
 
thunderkyss said:
We didn't do any of the things we thought we would with our first team offense. No zone blocking with the run game. Actually all night, it was straight up hardnose running up the gut. there were no cutback lanes or any stretching of the offensive line. More traps, and one gaps and conventional run techniques.

And Carr was asked to work from a stationary pocket...... no bootlegs, no moving pocket.... no confusing the defensive line at all.

Because of that, I think there was definite pressure on the QB, and while I won't say David handled the pressure extremely well, he didn't look at all bad. there was no leaving the pocket early..... in fact, he might have stayed longer than he should have. But he stayed in and took some hits because he was looking downfield.

They Kept flashing to shots of Sherman on the sideline, and this "scheme" we ran with the first team was as anti-Denver-zone-blocking as I'd care to see us play. hopefully, Kubiak and Sherman got that crap out of their system, and go back to what we were doing last week & what they allowed Sage to do in the second half.

Anybody else notice this??
Click to expand...


actually most of the time when he got pressured it was cause Wali Lundy couldnt block his man, and when morency got in, he stopped the rusher and not near as much pressure.
 
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