What would make Vince a great QB in the NFL?

[thunderkyss]

Leinart's passing stats are superior

Opinions are fine and dandy, but let's talk about numbers. I'm assuming superior to not just mean better, but far better.

Now, when I look at Matt Lienart: 3815yrds... and then look at Vince Young: 3036 yrds......... One could argue that is far better.
When looking at Matt Lienart: 65.7% comp percentage, then Vince Young: 65.2% completion percentage, I doubt many would say that is far better. Most will probably say they are darn near identicle(sp).
So, if you were to assume Vince completed 65.2% of the other 109 attempts that Matt had(Vince blew teams out, and therefore sat most of the 3rd & 4th quarters) @ Vince's avg 9.3ypa(Matt's is 8.85ypa by the way, definitely not superior) you'd get (109*0.625*9.3=)616 yards, bringing Vince to 3652 yards. Which 3815 isn't really far better than. Then, if you were to assume YPA means yards per attempt(which, I really don't know what it means) Vince would have (109*9.3+3036=)4049yrds passing....(pretty David Carr like)

Then you've got TD/Int..... Matt threw 2 more than TDs, and 2 less ints. Better, but not far better. We already covered Vince's better YPA, but Vince also has a better QB rating...... 163.95 vs 157.74(would that make vince the highest rated QB in the draft?? )

So, in conclusion. I'm sorry but I don't see Matt's superior passing numbers. Maybe I missed the in your post..... for that, I apologize.

I'm not saying Vince won't be a good QB or anything by this, I'm just pointing out this angle that for all those people that claim that collegiate level of competition is a huge deciding factor in what QBs will be a success in the NFL, there are far more NFL QBs from the smaller conferences than some of the bigger ones, in this case the Big 12.

Soooo true. Especially with UT....... not known for their QB production. Chris Simms didn't really light it up when he was at UT. I definitely credit the work he must have put in with his dad for his performance now, more than I give Mack Brown. UT doesn't build around QBs. They just don't. UT Olineman aren't generally drafted because of their superior(there's that word again) pass blocking techniques. UT builds teams to run. And they do that very well.

So personally, if every one says UT dumbed down their offense for Vince, because of Vince. I don't take it as a knock against Vince. I think it has more to do with the way the team was built, which is not to the advantage of the QB.

 

[Frills]

Roy Williams lit up Simms in Dallas...

Simms threw more TD's to OU players than he did UT players

 

[Señor Stan]

I have watched 4-5 of his games and I've heard from people I know that have scouted every one of his games on actual scouting tapes of every play he's been in this year. I will trust their opinions over any fans' on this board, especially when they coincide with the opinion I already had of him.

Hey, I watched four of Buchannon's games before I traded for him!

Regards,
C. Casserly

 

[Napa Auto Parts]

Wgat can make VY a great QB in the NFL?

Brain transplant...he has physical skills, but is greatly lacking upstairs

Im assuming you make this coment because Vince runs out of bound behind the line of scrimage wich is a sack right brain transplant oh my god hahahaha i see your point.

 

[mikoto]

FWIW
I have searched high and low to get VY's times in the 40, cone, etc. and I could find only the 40 listed in only two places. (few days ago, can't remember specific links, but just googled)
His time in the 40 was reported as 4.48 in one place and 4.5 in another. That's fast in college, blazing to linebackers, pretty fast to db's. But in the Pro's that is not really that much to write home about. Plenty of linebackers in the NFL are 6'2"+ish and 240+ish and run 4.5ish and hit MUCH harder than college linebackers.

That said, running is about much more than just blazing speed. He has otherworldly grace, balance and vision. However, don't look for the same seperation from the front 7 his speed got him in college in the pro's, if those times are correct. He will be caught from behind by some linebackers and any DB and his runs to the edge won't be as effective because shorter angles will be required of quicker NFL players.

NOT a VY bashing post. I can't wait till we have more solid data on this guy. I hope someone reports accurate, credible times on him soon.

 

[stevo3883]

FWIW
I have searched high and low to get VY's times in the 40, cone, etc. and I could find only the 40 listed in only two places. (few days ago, can't remember specific links, but just googled)
His time in the 40 was reported as 4.48 in one place and 4.5 in another. That's fast in college, blazing to linebackers, pretty fast to db's. But in the Pro's that is not really that much to write home about. Plenty of linebackers in the NFL are 6'2"+ish and 240+ish and run 4.5ish and hit MUCH harder than college linebackers.

That said, running is about much more than just blazing speed. He has otherworldly grace, balance and vision. However, don't look for the same seperation from the front 7 his speed got him in college in the pro's, if those times are correct. He will be caught from behind by some linebackers and any DB and his runs to the edge won't be as effective because shorter angles will be required of quicker NFL players.

NOT a VY bashing post. I can't wait till we have more solid data on this guy. I hope someone reports accurate, credible times on him soon.

in an interview on the radio VY said he ran a 4.41 last year at texas. and imo i believe it.

 

[AustinJB]

FWIW
I have searched high and low to get VY's times in the 40, cone, etc. and I could find only the 40 listed in only two places. (few days ago, can't remember specific links, but just googled)
His time in the 40 was reported as 4.48 in one place and 4.5 in another. That's fast in college, blazing to linebackers, pretty fast to db's. But in the Pro's that is not really that much to write home about. Plenty of linebackers in the NFL are 6'2"+ish and 240+ish and run 4.5ish and hit MUCH harder than college linebackers.

That said, running is about much more than just blazing speed. He has otherworldly grace, balance and vision. However, don't look for the same seperation from the front 7 his speed got him in college in the pro's, if those times are correct. He will be caught from behind by some linebackers and any DB and his runs to the edge won't be as effective because shorter angles will be required of quicker NFL players.

NOT a VY bashing post. I can't wait till we have more solid data on this guy. I hope someone reports accurate, credible times on him soon.

I know this is not what you're looking for b/c it doesn't have any times, etc.....but if anyone is interested in just viewing some of VY's accomplishments, here is a link:

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball....channel_id=15&change_well_id=17&member_id=106

If you really want a complete breakdown of every single game (rushing and passing) and very compete stats, download the PDF file on that link that says "Awards Bio & Notes."

Hope I don't get flamed for this....if you're not interested, just ignore it.

 

[threetoedpete]

I can't wait to see his skill set at the professional level and where his upside levels out at. He is what Clyde Drexler would look like playing QB. It will be fun to watch his career as there really is nobody like him. I think he is going to be a superstar and all he needs is time to learn.

The reason the Rockets took McCray over Drexler was that Drexler out of college had NO outside shot and couldn't make free throws consistanly. Drexler worked his rear end off and made himself into one of the top fifty
BB players of our generation. There is no doubt that VY has a super work ethic. He has improved his game considerably each and every year since highschool. There is a clear and distinct line of delination between those who think that VY's athletic ablity and work ethic are enough to carry him over and make him the next comming of Steve Young squared. And those of us who think that his mechanics are so bad, so ingrained, that he will never be able to over come them. Right now, there are teams ready to ask him to make the transition to WR. Not because he is Black, ( I thought Warren Moon killed that monkey), not because he isn't smart enough, but because his mechanics are so bad, so inconsitant with what a QB has to throw on a pro level, that he will never ever be able to transisiton. Book it, VY is my canidate to be the ESPN Lead Zepplin this year. I say he slips past ten and keeps falling. I am a hugh VY fan. I think he is without a doubt one of the greatest if not the greatest college players of all time. The Texas /USC is one of the greatest if not the greatest games of all time. But NFL stand not for long if you're a quarterback and can't throw the ten yard out with consistant percision.


1.) Learn to throw the football and not hurl or fling the football.
2.) Scrap the ear lobe delivery and learn to come over the top.
3.) Work on his foot work and the quarterback intangables.

VY waists 40% of his arm strength with his motion. The one that needs to be horse whipped is his HS coach. He should of nixed that ear lob delivery the very first day of freshman practice. Quick and easy ain't always the best way. Fixin to cost this kids family twenty million bucks.

 

[TreWardTxn]

The reason the Rockets took McCray over Drexler was that Drexler out of college had NO outside shot and couldn't make free throws consistanly. Drexler worked his rear end off and made himself into one of the top fifty
BB players of our generation. There is no doubt that VY has a super work ethic. He has improved his game considerably each and every year since highschool. There is a clear and distinct line of delination between those who think that VY's athletic ablity and work ethic are enough to carry him over and make him the next comming of Steve Young squared. And those of us who think that his mechanics are so bad, so ingrained, that he will never be able to over come them. Right now, there are teams ready to ask him to make the transition to WR. Not because he is Black, ( I thought Warren Moon killed that monkey), not because he isn't smart enough, but because his mechanics are so bad, so inconsitant with what a QB has to throw on a pro level, that he will never ever be able to transisiton. Book it, VY is my canidate to be the ESPN Lead Zepplin this year. I say he slips past ten and keeps falling. I am a hugh VY fan. I think he is without a doubt one of the greatest if not the greatest college players of all time. The Texas /USC is one of the greatest if not the greatest games of all time. But NFL stand not for long if you're a quarterback and can't throw the ten yard out with consistant percision.


1.) Learn to throw the football and not hurl or fling the football.
2.) Scrap the ear lobe delivery and learn to come over the top.
3.) Work on his foot work and the quarterback intangables.

VY waists 40% of his arm strength with his motion. The one that needs to be horse whipped is his HS coach. He should of nixed that ear lob delivery the very first day of freshman practice. Quick and easy ain't always the best way. Fixin to cost this kids family twenty million bucks.

Why would Ray Seals try to change his delivery? You don't mess with greatness at that level. Even Greg Davis and Mack gave up on it, and that worked out well in college. If Young doesn't change his delivery and it proves to be his downfall, then he will have no one to blame but himself. However, I honestly believe that if Doug Flutie can have the success in the NFL that he has, (although marginal b/c coaches could never get over his height) then Young will have no problems with continually batted balls in the pros. He will need to get better at hitting receivers in stride and dropping balls into space, and that's to be expected, but I don't see him getting the ball spiked at the line of scrimmage more often than any other QB; in fact, his ability to shift in the pocket and create throwing lanes negates any disadvantage of throwing the ball slightly lower than he should...

 

[Texan in Japan]

FWIW
I have searched high and low to get VY's times in the 40, cone, etc. and I could find only the 40 listed in only two places. (few days ago, can't remember specific links, but just googled)
His time in the 40 was reported as 4.48 in one place and 4.5 in another. That's fast in college, blazing to linebackers, pretty fast to db's. But in the Pro's that is not really that much to write home about. Plenty of linebackers in the NFL are 6'2"+ish and 240+ish and run 4.5ish and hit MUCH harder than college linebackers.

That said, running is about much more than just blazing speed. He has otherworldly grace, balance and vision. However, don't look for the same seperation from the front 7 his speed got him in college in the pro's, if those times are correct. He will be caught from behind by some linebackers and any DB and his runs to the edge won't be as effective because shorter angles will be required of quicker NFL players.

NOT a VY bashing post. I can't wait till we have more solid data on this guy. I hope someone reports accurate, credible times on him soon.

I can't think of many QBs that can run 4.5 or under (Vick and who else?). Although the defense is much faster in the pros, the QBs aren't. I remember someone posting earlier that VY claimed he ran a 4.42. If that's true, with his vision, grace, etc. (u described) he'll be a tough QB to contain and gameplan around. I can't wait until the combine and pro days either.

 

[kastofsna]

Why would Ray Seals try to change his delivery? You don't mess with greatness at that level. Even Greg Davis and Mack gave up on it, and that worked out well in college. If Young doesn't change his delivery and it proves to be his downfall, then he will have no one to blame but himself. However, I honestly believe that if Doug Flutie can have the success in the NFL that he has, (although marginal b/c coaches could never get over his height) then Young will have no problems with continually batted balls in the pros. He will need to get better at hitting receivers in stride and dropping balls into space, and that's to be expected, but I don't see him getting the ball spiked at the line of scrimmage more often than any other QB; in fact, his ability to shift in the pocket and create throwing lanes negates any disadvantage of throwing the ball slightly lower than he should...

it's not the batted balls that are the problem. the release point restricts the strength he can put on the ball and the accuracy in the deep passes are affected a LOT

 

[tulexan]

Which is pretty much what we saw at the Skills challenge. Accurate for short to mid range throws and no accuracy in the long range ones.

 

[Dr. Toro]

Notice how only one QB on this list is from the Big 12 Conference (Chris Simms), while there are six that played in the WAC (David Carr, Trent Dilfer, Billy Volek, Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, and Gus Frerotte). While the Big 12 provides so much better competition for their QBs to compete in, those 12 schools have only produced one meaningful QB that is currently in the NFL, while the WAC conference has produced six QBs that have made an NFL career for themselves despite having such weaker competition in college. I just thought I'd throw that fact out there since there has been frequent mention in the last few weeks of strength/quality of competition in the Big 12 and how that give an excuse for inferior stats and/or gives an indication of future success.

You know you're leaving out the biggest difference between the Big 12 and WAC. The Big 12 doesn't produce as many QBs because there's such an emphasis on running the ball. Look at the yards piled up by Big 12 RBs over the years. This is clearly a running conference.

Defenses in the WAC aren't close to the Big 12. Yes, being a QB in the Big 12 doesn't predispose you to being an NFL QB, but the fact that there are more NFL QBs from the WAC doesn't mean defenses are testing them. It simply means that these guys are getting a lot more opportunities to pass the ball. The better comparison would be WAC vs. Big 12 defensive players in the NFL. There's probably 5 Big 12 defensive players for every 1 WAC player in the NFL.

 

[cuppacoffee]

Which is pretty much what we saw at the Skills challenge. Accurate for short to mid range throws and no accuracy in the long range ones.

"And we'd be even more impressed if he "accepted the challenge" to work out under far better conditions in the RCA Dome with folks who might or might not write his name on an index card on April 29 watching every move he makes.

That's really the issue. Young chooses not to lay it on the line against Jay Cutler. In our book, that gives Cutler an automatic edge over Young."


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