Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

What totally ticks me off when.....

J

johnny_tlmn

Guest
...people who supposedly know a little something about the game making statements like "David Carr is 18-46 as a starter." That statement is an idiot finder, and its always helpful to know who those people are, so that is the one redeeming value. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard. It's the same sensation I get when I hear people STILL pronouncing Craig Biggio's last name as Beeegio...(see: Patrick, Dan) he has only been in the majors nineteen years... ...

Anyone who honesty believes that wins and losses can be fairly assigned to quarterbacks as they are to baseball pitchers could fit their knowledge of football on a kicking tee. Actually, it isn't always fair in baseball (see: Clemens, Rodger) much less football.
If you simply are not a fan of David Carr thats fine. There are legitimate points to be brought up regarding his performance, but don't attempt to pin all 46 losses on his shoulders just as he is not always the person most responsible for the wins ( example: Aaron Glenn scoring two touchdowns in Pittsburg). Assigning the wins & losses to the QB because his is the most visible position on the field is intellectualy lazy hence this rant..
David is 18-46 while he was leading the league in sacks three out of his four years in the league - all his fault, had nothing to do with a dishwater-weak line in front of him, zero playmakers sans Andre Johnson, and Fred Flinstone calling the plays.
Gee then I guess Ben Roethlisberger is 27-4. Its all Big Ben to be sure. The fact that he leads the league in fewest pass attempts by a starting quarterback would just be an "excuse" made by Steeler-haters. Add playmakers like Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle El, & Heath Miller...oh and that ground game wasn't too bad either, to the "excuse list". Bill Cower - the best coach of his generation (who has done more with less year in & year out?), well he just happened to be there; clearly it was all Ben. Casey Hampton on defense along with Joey Porter, and that Polamalu guy - you may have heard of him - wait stop making "excuses"! It was Ben.

I mean, he is the quarterback after all... :spy:
 
He's 18-46? Really? OK, I changed my mind. I'm anti-Carr now too. :)

That avatar is hilarious.
 
We should take all of the David Carr threads and combine them into one :lightbulb: Now that would be one huge thread.

But yes, I agree with you, the team loses, not the QB.
 
HJam72 said:
If we ever do release or trade Carr, this forum will require fewer servers. :)
Click to expand...

Either that or more servers to accomodate all of the "I told you so's" and the people who join the board just to tell everyone "I told you so", we'd have all kinds coming out of the woodwork...
 
i completely agree with this thread. all these dang carr bashers dont know didly. carr is one pro bowl away from being a pro bowl caliber player, you carr bashers need to realize that!
 
Just for the heck of it:

Jake Plummer pre-Denver (6 seasons)
55.9 comp. % (0 years over 60%), 6.39 ypa, 90 TD's (3.26% of attempts), 114 INT's (4.13% of attempts), 68.3 QB rating (72.6 last two years at AZ).

David Carr pre-Kubiak
57.8 comp. % (2 years over 60%), 6.53 ypa, 48 TD's (2.95% of attempts), 53 INT's (3.25 % of attempts), 73.7 QB rating (80.5 last two years).

Jake Plummer post-Denver
60.1 comp. %, 7.53 ypa, 60 TD's (4.69% of attempts), 34 INT's (2.66 % of attempts), 88.1 QB rating.

David Carr post-Kubiak
???????????????????????
 
You would need to administer shock therapy to Carr haters before they would even consider changing their minds. It's not about Carr, it's about something else. Just like those who may have a silent resentment against Mario for us surpassing Bush. Who knows. It is a waste of time to quarrel with them and we should focus on more meaningful things. Carr is our QB, and that will not change in the next year.
 
infantrycak said:
Just for the heck of it:

Jake Plummer pre-Denver (6 seasons)
55.9 comp. % (0 years over 60%), 6.39 ypa, 90 TD's (3.26% of attempts), 114 INT's (4.13% of attempts), 68.3 QB rating (72.6 last two years at AZ).

David Carr pre-Kubiak
57.8 comp. % (2 years over 60%), 6.53 ypa, 48 TD's (2.95% of attempts), 53 INT's (3.25 % of attempts), 73.7 QB rating (80.5 last two years).

Jake Plummer post-Denver
60.1 comp. %, 7.53 ypa, 60 TD's (4.69% of attempts), 34 INT's (2.66 % of attempts), 88.1 QB rating.

David Carr post-Kubiak
???????????????????????
Click to expand...

Great. However, we paid #1 money for Plummer like numbers for the first four years. We better be getting a lot more production from Carr than Plummer got with Kubiak as we have surely compensated him more. Return on investment has been nil from Carr. Total cost of ownership is sky rocketing.

The love fest is great. The optimism is needed, but the only numbers that matter are what his percentage of the team's cap and how many wins does the team have. If this were a business in the corporate world we would have fired, demoted or reassigned him. Giving him a raise would have never been in the forecast since his contribution to the team's record based on his percentage of operating expense would be very high.
 
TexansLucky13 said:
You would need to administer shock therapy to Carr haters before they would even consider changing their minds. It's not about Carr, it's about something else. Just like those who may have a silent resentment against Mario for us surpassing Bush. Who knows. It is a waste of time to quarrel with them and we should focus on more meaningful things. Carr is our QB, and that will not change in the next year.
Click to expand...

If Carr made Sage Rosenfels money, was not the first pick in the NFL draft or people make comparisions to other great QB's we would not be having a duscussion about him. However, he has been a cornerstone of our team and we have compensated him as such. I would have loved to have him back this year even at Plummer like numbers.

The team will get better and I do not expect Carr to really have any bearing on it as a top paid player should.
 
Why do people make such a huge deal out of Carr's draft number?

if we had gotten him in the 7th round would you all be praising his performance?

You act like you cant pay your bills because David Carr took all your money. The way I see it, you look at his numbers, his performance, and his potential, and then you decide to support him based on that. Neither his draft number, or his paycheck, should have any bearing on his worth when he is on the field.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Great. However, we paid #1 money for Plummer like numbers for the first four years. We better be getting a lot more production from Carr than Plummer got with Kubiak as we have surely compensated him more. Return on investment has been nil from Carr. Total cost of ownership is sky rocketing.
Click to expand...

The money paid in the 1st 4 years is irrelevant now--it is sunk, gone, in the past just like the money for Boselli, Walker, Wade, Smith and everyone else on the team to date--or the money paid by other teams in the past for example to Philip Rivers not to play for 2 years. No one is paying it back, re-earning it or earning it. The only pertinent salary question going forward is does a player earn his money on the field this year.

The love fest is great. The optimism is needed, but the only numbers that matter are what his percentage of the team's cap and how many wins does the team have.
Click to expand...

Interesting, so some naked stats with no prediction for Carr's performance in the future is a "love fest"? Seems to me you are looking for wabbits to hunt.

If this were a business in the corporate world we would have fired, demoted or reassigned him. Giving him a raise would have never been in the forecast since his contribution to the team's record based on his percentage of operating expense would be very high.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so fast there. The corporate world can be even better at overcompensating performance (no salary cap and all)--Home Depot CEO Nardelli has received $200 mil in the last 5 years as his shareholder returns are down and they are losing ground rapidly to Loews (whose CEO has received $10.5 mil over the same period--who has rising shareholder returns and market share).
 
The love fest is great. The optimism is needed, but the only numbers that matter are what his percentage of the team's cap and how many wins does the team have.
Click to expand...

I don't think we can blame lack of wins on Carr.

If this were a business in the corporate world we would have fired, demoted or reassigned him. Giving him a raise would have never been in the forecast since his contribution to the team's record based on his percentage of operating expense would be very high.
Click to expand...

It was either give Carr the extension or let him walk and look for a QB in free agency or the draft.
 
Grid said:
Why do people make such a huge deal out of Carr's draft number?

if we had gotten him in the 7th round would you all be praising his performance?

You act like you cant pay your bills because David Carr took all your money. The way I see it, you look at his numbers, his performance, and his potential, and then you decide to support him based on that. Neither his draft number, or his paycheck, should have any bearing on his worth when he is on the field.
Click to expand...

Since I am fan of a team that is in a sport that has a finite salary cap it matters to me.
 
Where you get drafted dictates how much money you get paid in the NFL.

Is it fair? Maybe not. Is it always like that? No. Is it a big factor? Absolutely.
 
As to the CEO analagy, the Texans make money, look it up we are in the top 10, and Bob should be happy with that. As to Carr's paycheck, it is in line with the rest of the league as a percent to cap, and less than those of QB's with better numbers, look at the Mannings, and neither of them has a SB Ring.

Brady 3-Rings, Rothlesgerger 1-Ring, Farve 1-Ring, Elway 2-Rings ( after 10+ years in the league, and 3-losses ) Jim Kelley 4 losses in the SB. When you look at these, argueably great QB's, they all played a different style of game, and when Kubiak finds Carr's best talents and Carr realizes and understands the O-system I think we will be in the play-offs, if not this year, then next.
 
Got me going 'round in circles. Can't do the dance anymore. Been there done that.

Carr has stunk, he has made a lot of money. We extended him. He is our starting QB next year. That sums it up for me, see you all in a Carr thread in August. Enjoy.

Thankfully I have Mario, Moulds and the other rookies to watch this year.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If this were a business in the corporate world we would have fired, demoted or reassigned him. Giving him a raise would have never been in the forecast since his contribution to the team's record based on his percentage of operating expense would be very high.
Click to expand...

I have a new thread called defining the Texans actions under the premise of "If this were the corporate world"

a) ...you would be banished to sensitivity training until further notice for suggesting "accountability".

b) ...you would blame everybody else and fire them (as long as they didn't have longterm contracts)

c) ...give everybody raises that complained just to make sure everybody is happy.

d) ...draft Reggie Bush to improve our "excitement" on offense

e) ...draft Vince Young to make sure a home town hero stays "home town".

any more?:spy:
 
Vambo said:
I have a new thread called defining the Texans actions under the premise of "If this were the corporate world"

a) ...you would be banished to sensitivity training until further notice for suggesting "accountability".

b) ...you would blame everybody else and fire them (as long as they didn't have longterm contracts)

c) ...give everybody raises that complained just to make sure everybody is happy.

d) ...draft Reggie Bush to improve our "excitement" on offense

e) ...draft Vince Young to make sure a home town hero stays "home town".

any more?:spy:
Click to expand...


Those corporate initiatives would surely put the company on thin ice from a financial, operational and HR standpoint. Although product group, marketing and sales would be happy.
 
thegr8fan said:
actually Carr is 17-60. Make ya feel better? :tease:
Click to expand...

How has Carr managed to play 77 games in four seasons? Last I checked 16x4 = 64 games max, plus he was injured for a few games back in 2003, or was this post meant to be a joke??
 
MorKnolle said:
How has Carr managed to play 77 games in four seasons? Last I checked 16x4 = 64 games max, plus he was injured for a few games back in 2003, or was this post meant to be a joke??
Click to expand...

gr8 is saying he has won 17 of 60. His record therefore would be 17 wins, 43 losses.
 
Vambo said:
I have a new thread called defining the Texans actions under the premise of "If this were the corporate world"

a) ...you would be banished to sensitivity training until further notice for suggesting "accountability".

b) ...you would blame everybody else and fire them (as long as they didn't have longterm contracts)

c) ...give everybody raises that complained just to make sure everybody is happy.

d) ...draft Reggie Bush to improve our "excitement" on offense

e) ...draft Vince Young to make sure a home town hero stays "home town".

any more?:spy:
Click to expand...

...so,if this team were run like a business in the 'real world,' where would Carr be?
 
But, but, we already have a Carr thread, just look 10 threads down. started by thunderkyss. (that roookie:redtowel: )
 
or was this post meant to be a joke??
Click to expand...
my vote would be 'Yes'. sure is reading like one. :chicken:

thanks cak for clearing that up for me. I guess I give too much credit for reasoning skills sometimes. :rolleyes:
 
johnny_tlmn said:
Gee then I guess Ben Roethlisberger is 27-4. Its all Big Ben to be sure. The fact that he leads the league in fewest pass attempts by a starting quarterback would just be an "excuse" made by Steeler-haters. Add playmakers like Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle El, & Heath Miller...oh and that ground game wasn't too bad either, to the "excuse list". Bill Cower - the best coach of his generation (who has done more with less year in & year out?), well he just happened to be there; clearly it was all Ben. Casey Hampton on defense along with Joey Porter, and that Polamalu guy - you may have heard of him - wait stop making "excuses"! It was Ben.

I mean, he is the quarterback after all... :spy:
Click to expand...


forget big ben...see i know my football and i say we should pull a ditka to get that :hunter: orton kid from chicago...hes 11-3 as a starter.... kid is special:ok: :pigfly:
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Since I am fan of a team that is in a sport that has a finite salary cap it matters to me.
Click to expand...

As of yet, we have not been short of money when we needed it. Actually, we have had enough money to OVERPAY free agents.

David Carr's contract has had absolutely NO adverse effect on this team, so it is a moot point.
 
Grid said:
As of yet, we have not been short of money when we needed it. Actually, we have had enough money to OVERPAY free agents.

David Carr's contract has had absolutely NO adverse effect on this team, so it is a moot point.
Click to expand...

It is not a moot point, because it counts against the salary more so than any other player on the team and for the longest time in our history. 7% on a 53 man roster is significant.

No adverse effect on the team? Don't bogart, pass it on over.
 
for one.. ill bet ya $100 bucks that if you sat down and talked to the Texans players, not one of them would have an issue with Carr's contract.

for two.. and this is the important one. It doesnt matter. Who cares how much money he makes? pay him a billion dollars to sit the bench for all I care, its not my money and as long as it is not having an adverse effect on the team (and its not) then so what.
 
Grid said:
for one.. ill bet ya $100 bucks that if you sat down and talked to the Texans players, not one of them would have an issue with Carr's contract.

for two.. and this is the important one. It doesnt matter. Who cares how much money he makes? pay him a billion dollars to sit the bench for all I care, its not my money and as long as it is not having an adverse effect on the team (and its not) then so what.
Click to expand...

That's exactly how I feel Grid. Who the heck cares how much we're paying Carr? As long as we are under the salary cap why does it matter if we give our QB some motavation money. Our cap space is not stopping us from getting anyone we want. Lets make Carr happy, he's our franchise QB, and lets make AJ happy, because he's our future at WR, and lets make all the starters happy on our team because we can afford it. Let's make our players happy for being Texans, not regreting it. And money is definately one problem that teams and players need to agree on. Maybe we can build a reputation for being a friendly team to our players and attract other future free agents. Because we can afford it. And there's no reason that we can't do it for the players. Let's get the most out of each and every one of our players.
 
Grid said:
You act like you cant pay your bills because David Carr took all your money. The way I see it, you look at his numbers, his performance, and his potential, and then you decide to support him based on that. Neither his draft number, or his paycheck, should have any bearing on his worth when he is on the field.
Click to expand...

Those numbers put him in the company of Joey Harrington, Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, and a "we need to draft Phillip Rivers" Drew Brees.....

infantrycak said:
The money paid in the 1st 4 years is irrelevant now--it is sunk, gone, in the past just like the money for Boselli, Walker, Wade, Smith and everyone else on the team to date--or the money paid by other teams in the past for example to Philip Rivers not to play for 2 years. No one is paying it back, re-earning it or earning it. The only pertinent salary question going forward is does a player earn his money on the field this year.
Click to expand...

And when have you ever defended any of those players?? Why is it only Carr has earned your favor??


srstex said:
As to the CEO analagy, the Texans make money, look it up we are in the top 10, and Bob should be happy with that. As to Carr's paycheck, it is in line with the rest of the league as a percent to cap, and less than those of QB's with better numbers, look at the Mannings, and neither of them has a SB Ring.
Click to expand...
I think the Cowgirls have got Drew Brees for like $2million a year. I doubt Aaron Brooks signed with Oakland for $8million.... I need to check, but I don't think JakePlummer is making $8 million either..... Matt haselback....... I doubt he's getting $8 million.


TEXANRED said:
But, but, we already have a Carr thread, just look 10 threads down. started by thunderkyss. (that roookie:redtowel: )
Click to expand...

and you and every one else who hates Carr threads manage to keep them alive.........

can't just not post, and let them die......
 
thunderkyss said:
I think the Cowgirls have got Drew Brees for like $2million a year. I doubt Aaron Brooks signed with Oakland for $8million.... I need to check, but I don't think JakePlummer is making $8 million either..... Matt haselback....... I doubt he's getting $8 million.
Click to expand...

Here's some QB contract figures for you:

Drew Bledsoe: 2 year deal for $4.7 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1059

Aaron Brooks: 2 year deal for $4 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1076

Jake Plummer: 7 year deal for $5.7 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1547

Matt Hasselbeck: 6 year deal for $8.2 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1298

Michael Vick: 10 year deal for $13 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm?pid=1681

Alex Smith: 6 year deal for $8.25 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.3385

Peyton Manning: 9 year deal for $14.1 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1433

David Carr: 7 year deal worth at least $6.4 mil per year up to $8.6 mil IF he meets all his incentives http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/news/2002/04/15/texans_carr_ap/

So you see that although Carr is getting paid 1st overall money, he's not getting paid premier QB money.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
It is not a moot point, because it counts against the salary more so than any other player on the team and for the longest time in our history. 7% on a 53 man roster is significant.

No adverse effect on the team? Don't bogart, pass it on over.
Click to expand...

Andre Johnson has the biggest cap hit on the books this season...
 
TheCD said:
Here's some QB contract figures for you:

Drew Bledsoe: 2 year deal for $4.7 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1059

Aaron Brooks: 2 year deal for $4 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1076

Jake Plummer: 7 year deal for $5.7 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1547

Matt Hasselbeck: 6 year deal for $8.2 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1298

Michael Vick: 10 year deal for $13 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm?pid=1681

Alex Smith: 6 year deal for $8.25 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.3385

Peyton Manning: 9 year deal for $14.1 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1433

David Carr: 7 year deal worth at least $6.4 mil per year up to $8.6 mil IF he meets all his incentives http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/news/2002/04/15/texans_carr_ap/

So you see that although Carr is getting paid 1st overall money, he's not getting paid premier QB money.
Click to expand...

Good info...
 
David is getting his salary, plus a bonus this year..... $8 mill plus $4 or $5 mill.


TheCD said:
Here's some QB contract figures for you:

Drew Bledsoe: 2 year deal for $4.7 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1059
Click to expand...
The Cowboys signed Bledsoe to a three-year deal on February 23, 2005. The Dallas Morning News reports that the deal is worth roughly $14 million and included a $2 million signing bonus.
Click to expand...

3 years........ $14mill= $4.7mill
but if you break it down, to $2mill signing bonus, 3 years/$11million= $3.6 mill a year....
TheCD said:
Aaron Brooks: 2 year deal for $4 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1076

Jake Plummer: 7 year deal for $5.7 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1547

Matt Hasselbeck: 6 year deal for $8.2 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1298

Michael Vick: 10 year deal for $13 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm?pid=1681

Alex Smith: 6 year deal for $8.25 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.3385

Peyton Manning: 9 year deal for $14.1 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1433

David Carr: 7 year deal worth at least $6.4 mil per year up to $8.6 mil IF he meets all his incentives http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/news/2002/04/15/texans_carr_ap/

So you see that although Carr is getting paid 1st overall money, he's not getting paid premier QB money.
Click to expand...

we could have let him walk, owing him nothing, and picked up Brees for less money, Brooks for less money, Harrington for less money, or Culpepper for comparable money.....
 
thunderkyss said:
And when have you ever defended any of those players?? Why is it only Carr has earned your favor??
Click to expand...

Well if you had been around for the last 4 years and bothered to read anything not having to do with Carr you would have seen plenty of posts. We discussed the Boselli deal ad nauseum. I have repeatedly said Walker was our best DLmen when healthy. I have also repeatedly posted about Payne and his being underrated by the MB. Long before you came along I was pointing out DD is not "too small" as often characterized and had put together a rare start to his career. I have responded where DeMeco has been called too small. I have responded where Wade has been characterized as fat. I haven't seen any attacks on Smith.

What you miss is that Carr has not "earned my favor"--I respond when I see ANY player receive unwarranted attacks. Carr deserves criticism--he doesn't deserve to have radio comments by Bryan Pittman attributed to Steve McKinney, he doesn't deserve to have people twist statements like "we have to play well," he doesn't deserve to have people state he refuses to study game film when the only thing ever reported was he took game film home for extra study instead of viewing it at the facility. Every comment which isn't a blanket condemnation of Carr is not an endorsement of him.
 
thunderkyss said:
David is getting his salary, plus a bonus this year..... $8 mill plus $4 or $5 mill.





3 years........ $14mill= $4.7mill
but if you break it down, to $2mill signing bonus, 3 years/$11million= $3.6 mill a year....


we could have let him walk, owing him nothing, and picked up Brees for less money, Brooks for less money, Harrington for less money, or Culpepper for comparable money.....
Click to expand...



You're wrong about the Carr figure. Look at that site.
Before escalators and other bonuses, the contract is worth $46.25 million over the course of the seven years. The deal's maximum value is seven years at $60 million.
Click to expand...

This obvioulsy boils down to a MAXIMUM of $8.6 mil per year IF HE MEETS ALL HIS INCENTIVES...which I guarantee he hasn't.


And here's the info on Drew Brees, he's NOT cheaper at all...

Drew Brees: 6 year deal with the Saints for $10 mil per year http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1070


Brooks is the only one I'd be ok with signing. Brees is still a question because of his injury, and Culpepper is as well and the fact that he couldn't do anything without a speed receiver like Moss is a little unsettling.


And you have to be nuts to suggest that we should have picked up Joey Harrington. That's the laughable statement of the century right there. There's a reason why he's only getting $800,000 in salary this year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm?pid=1294
 
thunderkyss said:
David is getting his salary, plus a bonus this year..... $8 mill plus $4 or $5 mill.





3 years........ $14mill= $4.7mill
but if you break it down, to $2mill signing bonus, 3 years/$11million= $3.6 mill a year....


we could have let him walk, owing him nothing, and picked up Brees for less money, Brooks for less money, Harrington for less money, or Culpepper for comparable money.....
Click to expand...
Brees contract is 10 mil a year so what are you talking about? Plus he is coming off an injury, plus what makes you think we would have gotten him simply because he was on the market? Same goes for any of the other players you mentioned.
 
Just going to add that you cannot break down a contract 60 million 6 years into meaning a 10 million cap hit every season.

The money is often shifted around and only guaranteed money means anything.
---

Looking at these contracts and cost to performance... looks like we would have made out like bandits drafting Peppers and signing Drew Bledsoe back in 2002.
 
If I could offer any advice to those of you arguing/comparing contracts, I would say ignore contract value because it's more than a bit misleading. Big contracts are rarely satisfied to their term and those numbers are more to satisfy agents' egos than anything else.

I'd focus on the amount of signing bonus and the length of the contract (future dead money in mind), then look at when the base amount escalates to a level where the team will likely force a rework. Also look for voidable years, options and buybacks for clues as to when the contract will be re-done and the decisions made on whether a player will be retained or let go. Also, in terms if a player is worth it or not, you have to look at the player's age and whether he can realistically play at least 2/3 of the contract term. [the Gary Walker rule]
 
aj. said:
If I could offer any advice to those of you arguing/comparing contracts, I would say ignore contract value because it's more than a bit misleading. Big contracts are rarely satisfied to their term and those numbers are more to satisfy agents' egos than anything else.

I'd focus on the amount of signing bonus and the length of the contract (future dead money in mind), then look at when the base amount escalates to a level where the team will likely force a rework. Also look for voidable years, options and buybacks for clues as to when the contract will be re-done and the decisions made on whether a player will be retained or let go. Also, in terms if a player is worth it or not, you have to look at the player's age and whether he can realistically play at least 2/3 of the contract term. [the Gary Walker rule]
Click to expand...


I understand what you're saying. But the information I used provided all the contract figures in a similar fashion, therefore it still provides an equal representation of each players' earnings, regardless of incentives and such. I was just trying to show that Carr isn't making as high-dollar as some people think he is.

I'm no salary cap/contractual wizard, so if anyone has any hard-nosed evidence that shows if I'm right or wrong about this, it'd be appreciated.
 
infantrycak said:
--Home Depot CEO Nardelli has received $200 mil in the last 5 years as his shareholder returns are down and they are losing ground rapidly to Loews...
Click to expand...
Nardelli is a bust! Vince Young should be running Home Depot. He's a true leader & looks great in orange.
 
TheCD said:
I'm no salary cap/contractual wizard, so if anyone has any hard-nosed evidence that shows if I'm right or wrong about this, it'd be appreciated.
Click to expand...

One measure to use is the franchise tag (average of top 5 cap hits) and transition tag (top 10 cap hits) for the position. These will include prorated bonuses, roster bonuses and salary.

For QB's they are $8.8 mil for the franchise tag and $8.3 mil for the transition tag. Carr's cap hit is $7.25 mil for this season so you can see Carr is paid below the top third of the league and probably somewhere in the middle third of the league for QB's.

One cautionary note on this is roster bonuses are not pro-rated and can drive up the tag numbers temporarily. This happened a couple years ago when CB's tag numbers went over QB's because Antoine Winfield received his signing bonus as a roster bonus of $10 mil because the Vikings had so much cap room. I am not aware of any such unusual roster bonuses paid to QB's this year and these numbers are in line with past years so this is really more of an FYI.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top