What makes you think Carr is an improved QB???

[PocketAces]

There is only what 23 players left from last years team? We have a completely revamped team and Carr’s numbers are not much better.

2005 16gm 423 passes 256 comp 2488yd 14TD 11INT 68 sacks
2006 10gm 285 passes 198 comp 1896yd 9TD 6INT 25sacks

His avg yards per completion is 9.7 in 2005 and 9.57 in 2006

To say Carr is more improved this year and that he is heading in the right direction is a far cry from the truth! The sacks per game are down from 4.25 in 2005 to 2.5 in 2006. Where is Carr's improvement, what is he doing with more time in the pocket, where is the improvement on the score board?

Texans avg points per game are 16.7 in 2006 and 16.2 in 2005

Given these stats what makes people think that Carr is an improved QB???

I give credit to the team and the coaches, in this respect yes the TEAM is better but what has Carr done that he has not done in the past. What improvements has he made???

 

[texan279]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4353086.html

Once again, Texans fans are howling for David Carr's well-coiffed scalp, so we come not to praise him but not to bury him, either.

Whether you like or dislike Carr, chew on these statistics and see if you can make a valid argument that the quarterback and the team haven't improved under Gary Kubiak.

Carr is getting ripped by fans because he failed to complete a late third-and-2 pass to Andre Johnson in the 24-21 loss to Buffalo. Kubiak should have called for a run, but first-year coaches make mistakes, too.

At a time when former players and coaches among the national media are talking about Carr's improvement under Kubiak, his critics within the Texans' fan base are convinced the team will never win consistently with him at quarterback.

After the 14-10 loss to the Giants and the 13-10 victory at Jacksonville, Carr's critics put a lid on it, but now they're back on the attack.

But many have failed to notice or have disregarded some facts about the Buffalo game. For instance, the Texans had 289 yards of offense in the first half and trailed 17-14 after Carr led touchdown drives of 80 and 70 yards.

Carr also led a 50-yard drive to the Bills' 13, where the Texans had a first down. He threw a short pass to fullback Jameel Cook, who lost a fumble at the 6.

Was that Carr's fault?

On the last drive of the third quarter that carried over into the fourth quarter, the Texans faced third-and-3 at the Buffalo 27. Carr ran for 16 yards and what should have been a first down at the 11, but the play was wiped out because of a holding call on guard Chester Pitts.

Was that Carr's fault?

Carr took the Texans to Buffalo's 6- and 11-yard lines, and they came away with no points in a three-point loss.

Carr said this week that on the third-and-2 play, he had two options — Johnson and Eric Moulds on slants. He said he saw a linebacker dropping into Moulds' path, so he threw to Johnson. Because cornerback Nate Clements broke on the ball, Carr said he threw it high on purpose. He said if Johnson couldn't get it, he didn't want Clements to get it, either.

Of Carr's 22 consecutive completions against the Bills, eight were for 15 or more yards. Ten of the 22 — 45 percent — produced first downs.

Carr's critics complain that he throws too many short passes. Do you know that in the first 10 games, Carr has completed 20 passes of at least 20 yards? In 16 games last season, he completed 18.

Carr does complete a lot of short passes, but he still averages 6.65 yards per attempt, which is better than Chad Pennington (6.60), Jake Delhomme (6.57), Brett Favre (6.45), Brad Johnson (6.44), Jake Plummer (6.44), Steve McNair (6.34) and Michael Vick (6.31), among others.

At this time last season, Carr had been sacked 47 times. He's been sacked 24 times this season. Carr also has more touchdown passes, fewer interceptions and a better rating than he had at this time last season. And don't forget that the Texans have won two more games.

Check this out: Carr's passer rating, which the NFL judges to be a more accurate barometer than completion percentage, has improved at every distance. The farther Carr gets from the line of scrimmage, the better his rating.

Carr has a rating of 70.9 when throwing behind the line of scrimmage, compared to 63.2 last season.

Carr's rating has gone to 91.8 this season from 81.3 last season from 1 to 10 yards; to 99.0 from 80.7 from 11 to 20 yards; to 88.4 from 54.2 from 21 to 30 yards; and to 135.4 from 85.2 from 31 to 40 yards.

And one more thing: When the Texans are in the red zone, Carr's rating is 94.4. The problem, of course, is getting to the red zone, and when they do, not committing a turnover or getting called for a penalty.

We're not saying Carr's a great quarterback or even a real good one. We're not saying he's a good leader. But we are saying that Carr, like the team, is better under Kubiak and that the Texans are headed in the right direction.

 

[dtran04]

Hell when McClain can write an article without mentioning some other QB, you know something is up.

 

[texan279]

This is coming from John Mclain who rips into Drayton Mclane for not improving the astros. Now Astros improved their offense. Carr to say does good in the end zone is highly unlikely. I always noticed he has difficulty getting that second touchdown. It usually either Kris Brown or our defense that scores the extra points we need. I am not sure what his problem is, but he better fix it. QB rating is overated in my opinion

There is a lot more in that article than just talk about QB rating.

 

[Ckw]

Man I realy don't post much but that was a heck of an article. Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything but a bunch of guys just rip on Carr homers and seem to believe they are seeing something that a lot of other reputable people are not seeing. I really believe Kubiak cares more about the success of this team, and keeping his job with our rip your heart out and eat it fan base, than holding on to his precious little quarterback who the Carr haters think he loves so much. To say Carr has not been that much more successful than last year and use statistics to prove it, and then come back to say statistics are irrelevant when other statitistics blow your argument away is just plain ignorant. No, Carr has not been Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. In fact, he hasn't been Philip Rivers either. Yet, he also hasn't been Michael Vick, Ben Roethlsberger, or Jake Plummer. He has been David Carr. We still have an extremely young team and a decent running game. For the Kubiak system to really work, we need something a little better than a decent running game to open up the passing game. Also, the game is moving more towards mobile quarterbacks, but not Michael Vick mobile, more like Tony Romo mobile. And Carr has that. He just has to keep settling down, build up his confidence, and the Carr haters may be eating crow some day. Always finding something to complain about has to be a little bit depressing, so why not try looking at the bright side. We are getting better, David has improved, but we still have a long way to go. But hey, at least we are headed in the right direction.

 

[Maddict5]

There is only what 23 players left from last years team? We have a completely revamped team and Carr’s numbers are not much better.

2005 16gm 423 passes 256 comp 2488yd 14TD 11INT 68 sacks
2006 10gm 285 passes 198 comp 1896yd 9TD 6INT 25sacks

His avg yards per completion is 9.7 in 2005 and 9.57 in 2006

To say Carr is more improved this year and that he is heading in the right direction is a far cry from the truth! The sacks per game are down from 4.25 in 2005 to 2.5 in 2006. Where is Carr's improvement, what is he doing with more time in the pocket, where is the improvement on the score board?

Texans avg points per game are 16.7 in 2006 and 16.2 in 2005

Given these stats what makes people think that Carr is an improved QB???

I give credit to the team and the coaches, in this respect yes the TEAM is better but what has Carr done that he has not done in the past. What improvements has he made???

try watching a game- even carr's bashers will say hes improved his pocket presence and is running well... and the av ppg will only get better as stupid mistakes etc fade and kubiak starts opening up the playbook more

 

[Texans_Chick]

This shows the truth about Carr (stat-buffer) dumps off and the rest of the guys throw down the field.

Part of this is what the defenses are showing the Texans. They are playing a lot of deep cover 2, so they are basically asking for the Texans to play dink and dunk ball.

I am not expecting this to get any better soon. Andre Johnson has a deep thigh bruise. He's gonna play, but hard to say at what speed.

Moulds going deep isn't a great option at least the times we've seen it this season.

 

[Wolf]

Texans have one more win so far in 2006 than in 2005

 

[texan279]

O.K. I want to educate some people on this board. First off do not post yards per attempt as a stat. Here is a good example of why not!

Quote: Carr does complete a lot of short passes, but he still averages 6.65 yards per attempt, which is better than Chad Pennington (6.60), Jake Delhomme (6.57), Brett Favre (6.45), Brad Johnson (6.44), Jake Plummer (6.44), Steve McNair (6.34) and Michael Vick (6.31), among others.

O.K. Here is a more accurate way of looking at it: Yards per completion!
Carr 9.5
Pennington 10.7 yards per completion
Delhomme 11.1 yards per completion
Favre 11.4 yards per completion
Johnson 10.4 yards per completion
Plummer 11.4 yards per completion
McNair 10.4 yards per completion
Vick 12.1 yards per completion

This shows the truth about Carr (stat-buffer) dumps off and the rest of the guys throw down the field.

Of Carr's 22 consecutive completions against the Bills, eight were for 15 or more yards. Ten of the 22 — 45 percent — produced first downs.

Carr's critics complain that he throws too many short passes. Do you know that in the first 10 games, Carr has completed 20 passes of at least 20 yards? In 16 games last season, he completed 18.

Carr also has one of the lowest INT thrown percentages in the NFL, with only Peyton, Favre, McNabb, Rivers, Brunell, and Bulger having a lower INT thrown %.

 

[Wolf]

I know that means so.. but for Carr arguments..

If we lose
Carrs stats are good, well he didn't get us the win
carrs stats are bad.. he stinks



If we win
Carrs stats are good.. it is because of aj
if his stats are bad.. carr stinks and then "think if we had a good QB, we'd blow them out"


it is a revolving door that will never end as long as Carr is the QB of the Texans

 

[texan279]

I know that means so.. but for Carr arguments..

If we lose
Carrs stats are good, well he didn't get us the win
carrs stats are bad.. he stinks



If we win
Carrs stats are good.. it is because of aj
if his stats are bad.. carr stinks and then "think if we had a good QB, we'd blow them out"


it is a revolving door that will never end as long as Carr is the QB of the Texans

Ding ding ding! We have a winner for post of the year folks!

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

OK ... I'm tired of Carr threads so What Texan do you enjoy watching the most ?

 

[texan279]

Carr has 23 passes this year that have gone over 20 yards

Pennington 27
Delhomme 30
Favre 39
Johnson 34
Plummer 28
McNair 22
Vick 26

OK, so Favre has 39 passes for 20+ yards, Johnson 34, Delhomme 30, Plummer 28, Pennington 27, Vick 26, and McNair 22. Wee Favre has attempted 367 passes this season, Delhomme 329, Plummer 315, Pennington 286, Vick 267, and McNair 304 compared to Carr's 285 attempts this season. So everyone you listed except for Vick has made more pass attempts than Carr this season.

 

[texan279]

I am just trying to say that Carr is not doing anything better than the years before this one. He is set in his ways, due to better talent, he has stat buffed his way into looking like a much improved QB but is he really?? Can we make the playoffs with a QB who does not move the ball down the field. Can this guy take us to the playoff's???

He has not had the pressure like he has had in the past and he still dumps the ball off instead of attacking defenders. He will throw the ball into tripple coverage but he wont throw the deep crossing route with single coverage????????????? I just do not see how people think the guy has played better. The team, YES, the QB I dont think so. If we had a top tier Qb we would have a top ten team.

QK Stat Sacks
Carr 25
Brady 17
Rivers 17
Eli 20
McNair 15
Plummer 17
Vick 29

Carr has not had much more pressure than these guys and they can get the job done!

Brady, Rivers, and McNair have top 10 defenses playing behind them, Eli and Plummer top 15 defenses, and Vick has the #20th ranked defense behind him, compared to Carr who has the 28th overall ranked defense in the NFL, but I forgot our defense's woes are all Carr's fault too...

 

[AJ121]

True but if you look at completions they are completing more deep passes from those attempts. The yards per completion proves the fact that Carr, on average, throws at least one yard fewer per attempt compared to the rest of the league.

kinda hard to throw the deep ball when our team cant run the ball...

 

[texan279]

Kinda hard to throw a INT when all of your throws are 2 yard dump off passes

Everytime you talk about Carr dumping off the ball I'll just post this...remember you started this thread asking about improvement from last season to this season, read the last sentence in bold, does that not show improvement?...

Of Carr's 22 consecutive completions against the Bills, eight were for 15 or more yards. Ten of the 22 - 45 percent - produced first downs.

Carr's critics complain that he throws too many short passes. Do you know that in the first 10 games, Carr has completed 20 passes of at least 20 yards? In 16 games last season, he completed 18.

 

[texan279]

Carr ranks dead last in the league for yards per completion

If you are going to post this why not post where our WR's rank in yards after catch in the NFL?

 

[dat_boy_yec]

Obviously because stats don't tell the whole story. Carr is making better decisions and getting rid of the ball. This season he hasn't taken as many sacks as he would have in the past because he get's rid of the ball. When protection breaks down he'll take off and looking back at the Buffalo game had Pitts not been called for the holding we would have had a score. Had Cook not fumbled we would have had a score also in the Giants game when Cook fumbled late in the game. Fact is Carr is putting his guy's in position to win, but they aren't doing it all the time. After the Tennessee game his pocket awareness has improved vastly. Stat's won't show how many different things he's doing to try and win games. The throw intercepted by Clements this weekend was thrown as he was hit, regardless of that A.J. was still in possession to get the ball, but he was beat, great play by Clements can't be blamed on Carr. Since the Tenn. game Carr has not fumbled, the way he holds and protects the ball has also improved. The guy is doing a way better job, but your comparing a full season to 10 games. Even if Carr threw for 100 yds. a game from here on out he would rack up more yds. than last yr. He's not where he's gotta be yet, but too not recognize his improvement, maybe it's you who is set in your ways.

 

[sleepwalker]

To say Carr is more improved this year and that he is heading in the right direction is a far cry from the truth! The sacks per game are down from 4.25 in 2005 to 2.5 in 2006. Where is Carr's improvement, what is he doing with more time in the pocket, where is the improvement on the score board?

More time in the pocket? Are you smoking cheeba? Are you aware that Salaam is being mumified with duct tape or that Zack is gone?? Are you aware that we have the worst OL in the entire league?

All your doing is comparing stats with reckless regard to the core issue of Carr's success...The OL.

Anyone that has watched the games knows Carr is making better decisions with the ball *most of the time*...He makes accurate throws, on the run too...Carr is under a much more logical offensive scheme that taylors to our immediate needs *due to injury and lack of talent*.

Anyone with a brain can see we are slowly getting better, Carr included.

 

[TK_Gamer]

Kinda hard to throw a INT when all of your throws are 2 yard dump off passes

exagerate much?

 

[dat_boy_yec]

What's "cheeba?"
Is that like Crack?

Or more like Marijuana??

Just trying to get caught up in my "lingo."

da latter

 

[Napa Auto Parts]

At times i see david as being a little improved but he has way less sacks than last year and may i say i say somewhat of an offensive line but the numbers don't add up what really bring my moral down on david carr is seeing JP look like dan marino compared to carr. having sage come in for a quarter and a half and move the offense up and down like if he had years in kubiaks system.
having other quarterbacks in the league undrafted QB's look like the next coming of peyton manning and we still have the same old broken down carr

 

[noxiousdog]

O.K. I want to educate some people on this board. First off do not post yards per attempt as a stat. Here is a good example of why not!

That may be darn near the worst statement I've ever seen on this board.

Yards per attempt is probably the best passing stat there is because it takes into account completion percentage as well as distance.

If you don't believe me, go take yards per attempt and compare it points scored, and you'll see they match up very well.

(for the math inclined, you can use excel to do a correlation, and you'll find that 2*ypa + yards per carry is the best predictor of points scored. If you find a better one, please let me know for entertainment purposes only, of course )

 

[texflex513]

At times i see david as being a little improved but he has way less sacks than last year and may i say i say somewhat of an offensive line but the numbers don't add up what really bring my moral down on david carr is seeing JP look like dan marino compared to carr. having sage come in for a quarter and a half and move the offense up and down like if he had years in kubiaks system.
having other quarterbacks in the league undrafted QB's look like the next coming of peyton manning and we still have the same old broken down carr

well attribute that to our defensive secondary which is our biggest problem its not carrs fault that we have the worst secondary in the nfl right now. The defensive secondaries we have faced are no slouches.

 

[texan279]

David Carr
1896 yards Pasing
998 Yards After Catch
898 Actual Passing Yards
198 Pass Completions

4.5 Actual Avg Yards Per Completion thrown by the Qb

Charlie Frye
1959 Yards Passing
996 Yards After Catch
936 Actual Passing Yards
198 Pass Completions

4.9 Actual Avg Yards Per Pass

Delhomme
2161 Yards Passing
972 Yards After Catch
1189 Actual Passing Yards
195 Pass Completions

6.1 Actual Avg Yards Per Pass

Jake Plummer
1994 Yards Passing
936 Yards After Catch
1058 Actual Passing Yards
175 Pass Completions

6.1 Actual Avg Yards Thrown Per Pass

We are playing with a Charlie Frye type QB, I wonder how much they are paying Frye to put up Carr type numbers????

If you ask that then you have to ask how much are we paying AJ, Moulds, and Walter to put up Braylon Edwards, Joe Jurevicius, and Dennis Northcutt numbers...

 

[JDizzle]

Brady, Rivers, and McNair have top 10 defenses playing behind them, Eli and Plummer top 15 defenses, and Vick has the #20th ranked defense behind him, compared to Carr who has the 28th overall ranked defense in the NFL, but I forgot our defense's woes are all Carr's fault too...

Our defense isn't holding Carr back. Carr is. Once you understand that you can start rooting for the team to win rather than Carr.

 

[texan279]

Our defense isn't holding Carr back. Carr is. Once you understand that you can start rooting for the team to win rather than Carr.

I forgot Carr gave up those 2 83 yard TD passes in the 1st quarter last week, what was I thinking? How is Carr holding himself back?

Of Carr's 22 consecutive completions against the Bills, eight were for 15 or more yards. Ten of the 22 — 45 percent — produced first downs.

Carr's critics complain that he throws too many short passes. Do you know that in the first 10 games, Carr has completed 20 passes of at least 20 yards? In 16 games last season, he completed 18.

At this time last season, Carr had been sacked 47 times. He's been sacked 24 times this season. Carr also has more touchdown passes, fewer interceptions and a better rating than he had at this time last season. And don't forget that the Texans have won two more games.

Carr has a rating of 70.9 when throwing behind the line of scrimmage, compared to 63.2 last season.

Carr's rating has gone to 91.8 this season from 81.3 last season from 1 to 10 yards; to 99.0 from 80.7 from 11 to 20 yards; to 88.4 from 54.2 from 21 to 30 yards; and to 135.4 from 85.2 from 31 to 40 yards.

And one more thing: When the Texans are in the red zone, Carr's rating is 94.4. The problem, of course, is getting to the red zone, and when they do, not committing a turnover or getting called for a penalty.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

My numero uno problem with the Texans is ... they are 5-21 over the last two years . In the five games we won , Carr has thrown four td passes or .8 per game . I'm not sure how their scoring when they win , but its not TD passes . I know he threw 2 against the Jaguars so that gives him 2 for the other 4 wins .

 

[MrMeToo]

carr hasn't improved...

 

[texan279]

Braylon Edwards 41catches with 612yards 3 TD’s $7,743,000
Joe Jurevicius 16 catches 181 yds 2 TD’s $852,000
Dennis Northcutt 16 catches 124 yds $3,250,000
TE Winslow 60 catches 597 yds 3TD’s $4,722,000

AJ 74 catches 884yds 4 TD $1,115,000
Moulds 39catches 431yds 1TD $6,600,00
Walter 12 catches 111yds $384,000
OD 26 catches 282yds 5TD salary??


Dude I hope you are joking!!!!! We are getting a steal!!!

You might want to check those salaries again. Those are from 2005. AJ counts $7.8 million against the cap this season, Moulds $2.4 million, and Walter $1 million, that's $11.2 million against the cap this season for our #1-#3 WR's, or about 11% of the salary cap allowance.

 

[NATHANHALE]

This shows the truth about Carr (stat-buffer) dumps off and the rest of the guys throw down the field.

Part of this is what the defenses are showing the Texans. They are playing a lot of deep cover 2, so they are basically asking for the Texans to play dink and dunk ball.

I am not expecting this to get any better soon. Andre Johnson has a deep thigh bruise. He's gonna play, but hard to say at what speed.

Moulds going deep isn't a great option at least the times we've seen it this season.

Are we the only team that sees the cover 2? This excuse started mid way thru 2004 when Carr's 'great' first half of the season stats disappeared the 2nd half.

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe an offensive 'guru' like Kubiak is going to have to run a 'dink and dunk' offense the rest of his career with the Texans because of the cover 2! :brickwall :brickwall

 

[texan279]

Edwards 7.7mil Winslow 4.7mil Northcut 3.25mil Joe 850 thousand
Dre 1.1 mil moulds 6.6 Walter 384 thousand and OD is not listed

This is the 2006 salaries posted at Foxsports.com so I don't know where your source is comming from but this is where I have mine!

Go back and look at what you are reading, in front of salary it says 2005...

 

[NATHANHALE]

I am just trying to say that Carr is not doing anything better than the years before this one. He is set in his ways, due to better talent, he has stat buffed his way into looking like a much improved QB but is he really?? Can we make the playoffs with a QB who does not move the ball down the field. Can this guy take us to the playoff's???

He has not had the pressure like he has had in the past and he still dumps the ball off instead of attacking defenders. He will throw the ball into tripple coverage but he wont throw the deep crossing route with single coverage????????????? I just do not see how people think the guy has played better. The team, YES, the QB I dont think so. If we had a top tier Qb we would have a top ten team.

QK Stat Sacks
Carr 25
Brady 17
Rivers 17
Eli 20
McNair 15
Plummer 17
Vick 29

Carr has not had much more pressure than these guys and they can get the job done!

Sorry, Pal, I'm with you on this one but you have to understand that you are with the Carr . Remember. IMO these are the same posters that supported Capers and 'crucified' anyone on the board who even 'hinted' Dom was a problem. Now, Capers is considered by these same posters to be the 'biggest' reason for David's 'lack of development.'

What I'm saying here is simple-like the saying goes that 'every dog has his day,' so will all the Carr doubters one day. I can't tell you when but-at some point- a big is going to go off but. like with the Capers scenario, don't look for any 'confessions., or 'fess-ups.' When that happens, just rejoice in the fact--not that you were right--but in the hope that a 'great' new day is dawning.

Until then, it is what it is...people chasing a dream that IMO will never happen.

 

[noxiousdog]

First off you are wrong, yards per attempt tell nothing about the quality of passes being thrown, in fact it is a stat that is deluted by QB's like David (Dump off Carr).

Your pass attempts in comparison to your yards, that tells you nothing except some QB are super conservative or take risks.

How about how many Completions it took to get those yards? This tells the truth about what a QB is doing with their pass selection, this is why Carr is looked at as a joke around the NFL!!!

A QB who throws the ball to the reciever 10 yards away that will keep the saftey and CB's honest as compared to the Safety who gets to creep up every play because he know the QB never throws the ball over the middle or down the field.

Top 10 in ppg:
SD, CHI, DAL, IND, CIN, PHI, NO, PIT, NE, NYG

Top 10 in ypa
NO(6), DAL(1), IND(1), CIN(1), PIT(3), PHI (0), SD (6), KC(5), CHI(6), STL(5)

Top 10 in ypcomp
PHI(5), DAL(1), NO(4), CIN(1), PIT(3), TEN (18), IND(3), CHI(6), KC(4), JAX(2)

The number in parenthisis is the distance away from true rank in points per game.

Yards per completion doesn't penalize low completion percentage guys like Young, Leftwich, and Plummer.

And Carr isn't looked at as a joke around the NFL. He's looked at as average. Which is exactly where his YPA ranks.

 

[dat_boy_yec]

Yds. per attemt do tell you something. It tells you how effective the QB is at constantly moving the ball. Even though Carr isn't making a ton of downfield completions he is eating up yards. All those other QB's complete downfield passes and have a longer YPC but what isn't told is how many times their passes fail and that in turn means they are having plays where they aren't gaining any yds. That has to be accounted for as well. Also all the QB's you mention have yrs. either working the system or studying it. This is Carr's first yr. in this system. You said it yourself Carr is avg. this yr. Guess what, that in itself is an improvement because he was well below avg. last yr. You wanna talk about stats being padded. Okay what about last yr. we had to throw more often because we were usually playing from behind and defenses let us have yds. You wanna compare him to other QB's fine how does that prove he hasn't improved. It's all about game play and Carr is playing better. He's not doing great and might never be great, but he is improving. You keep going off stats and comparing him to other QB's. How about you compare his play to previous season's and tell us how he's doing worse or making worse decisions.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Next it'll be Jimmy Hoffa's fault.

Well, Hoffa has been stinking it up this year....