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Welcome to Houston CJ Stroud

jradMIT said:
It’s way too early, I am an analytical guy and some of the advanced analysis is saying that his stats are over performing some of the underlying fundamentals, however there just isn’t enough data to lean on to draw any real conclusions, so it’s really just fodder for fanatics like us.


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It is never too early. I am a non-analytic guy. There is plenty of data to draw a conclusion based on information we have. Every game and every practice can change any conclusion. I am surprised by Stroud. That's my conclusion and I'm sticking to it.
 
Corrosion said:
I know better than going down this rabbit hole .... but I'm going to do it anyway:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1703785187044417556

% pressure is irrelevant to this discussion.

The stat compared Stroud to "all other QB's" under the same parameters.

No pressure Stroud is #2 out of the group.

Under Pressure Stroud is #32 out of the group.

The splits were very similar in NCAA where he had the largest split between pressure and non pressure stats of any QB in division 1.

Stands to reason why opposing DC's gameplan for just that reason.

This is the NFL - He's going to see a substantial amount of pressure. If he is to succeed, he cannot be 32nd while under pressure no matter what the numbers are without pressure.
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I think not throwing backward screen for -10 yards will also help these numbers massively.

Not saying it will make it good, but probably not #32
 
Speedy said:
The same with QBR. Yes, we're going off of someone's interpretation to get to the number, so we don't really know what the story is, but 1) we know it takes a lot more things into account and 2) we know that 50 is average. Anything above that is good, below not so good. And flaws or not, it's the only thing we really have to go on for any kind of in-depth rating or ranking until something better comes along.
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I agree with you. I do look at QBR & think it has value. I just come back to people making judgment calls.

I guess I'm biased about it because next to football my biggest sport obsession is boxing. I've been following it since the 60s. I cannot tell you how many fights have come to a decision where I have completely disagreed with the outcome. I much prefer a cut & dried knockout.
 
From hasbullastan (@philbarrera13): Best rookie quarterback through the first two weeks?

Phil, I’d say it’s Stroud, and I say that objectively—I actually did call a couple of scouts Tuesday to ask whether I was being a Buckeyes homer if I said that about the second pick.

Now, I love what we’ve seen from Anthony Richardson to this point. But he sort of is what he is at this point, a big athletic quarterback, and the Colts have been innovative in finding ways to leverage that while he grows. So while he’s really impressive, what we’ve seen of him to this point, we already knew. And that he’s been injured in both of his games thus far is a reminder that, in time, he’ll need to evolve to where he doesn’t need to run as much.

Meanwhile, Bryce Young (and we’ll get more into this in a minute) has been a little hamstrung by what’s around him. Like everyone else, I’m impressed with his poise and calm demeanor in the pocket. But it’s been tough to get a great read on him through two games.

And that brings us to Stroud, who looks the part physically, is making NFL throws consistently, and throwing—and this is key—with anticipation. In both of his starts, he’s played from behind. In fact, of the 120 minutes of football the Texans have played, 111 minutes and 14 seconds have been played from a deficit. On Sunday, four of his five starting linemen were out. Yet, with all that on Stroud, a burden that has him at 58 completions through his first two starts (second most for a quarterback in NFL history), he’s hardly buckled.

He was fine against the Ravens, going 28-of-44 for 242 yards and a 78.0 rating. He was better against the Colts, hitting on 30 of 47 throws for 384 yards, two touchdowns and a 103.5 rating. He has yet to throw a pick. He’s hung in while taking 11 sacks. The predraft questions about his toughness are being answered on a week-to-week basis.

So, yeah, there are good signs with all three guys. But more with Stroud than the other tw
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Number19 said:
What are "splits"?
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The difference in stats.
Example would be the difference in a hitters performance against lefties and righties.

In the case of this discussion, it's the difference between being under pressure and not being under pressure #2 in a clean pocket #32 otherwise.


Bottom line, this is the NFL - Every QB is going to face pressure. It's what defenses do (or try to), the difference between the good QB's and "everyone else" is how they handle / perform under pressure.

Stroud does some good things - things the last QB just couldn't in terms of anticipating throws, ball placement & accuracy but how he handles pressure will define him as it defines the position.

We can make all the excuses - OL, play calling, TE's suck, no running game - but ultimately, for Stroud to be successful, he cannot be the #32nd worst QB against pressure.
 
Corrosion said:
We can make all the excuses - OL, play calling, TE's suck, no running game - but ultimately, for Stroud to be successful, he cannot be the #32nd worst QB against pressure.
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They're not excuses and how well qb's deal with pressure isn't a black and white thing. The factors you named above matter a great deal in how effective they are at handling it. Even the greats can only really deal with not having just 1 of those before their performance suffers. This kid is dealing with not having all 3 of the above you named... on top of being a rookie. Think he deserves a little grace in that regard.
 
Mr teX said:
They're not excuses and how well qb's deal with pressure isn't a black and white thing. The factors you named above matter a great deal in how effective they are at handling it. Even the greats can only really deal with not having just 1 of those before their performance suffers. This kid is dealing with not having all 3 of the above you named... on top of being a rookie. Think he deserves a little grace in that regard.
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Regardless Stroud can't be 32nd.
 
steelbtexan said:
Wonder what the fan council will have to say?
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Whatever it is, I'm listening.

R.de32dc4bde3362a46055b2691fc25e09
 
Corrosion said:
The difference in stats.
Example would be the difference in a hitters performance against lefties and righties.

In the case of this discussion, it's the difference between being under pressure and not being under pressure #2 in a clean pocket #32 otherwise.


Bottom line, this is the NFL - Every QB is going to face pressure. It's what defenses do (or try to), the difference between the good QB's and "everyone else" is how they handle / perform under pressure.

Stroud does some good things - things the last QB just couldn't in terms of anticipating throws, ball placement & accuracy but how he handles pressure will define him as it defines the position.

We can make all the excuses - OL, play calling, TE's suck, no running game - but ultimately, for Stroud to be successful, he cannot be the #32nd worst QB against pressure.
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Better than being 1rst worst..

lol
 
Texansballer74 said:
Why didn’t these same guys bring up Mills stats like this?
We draft a potential franchise quarterback and the very same people come here spewing their negativity towards him. Crazy
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Mills was discussed in depth. If you are meaning "splits", it's possible this info was not available at the time. I don't recall splits being used for any player until just recently.
 
steelbtexan said:
Regardless Stroud can't be 32nd.
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Lol…but it’s like saying we can’t win games if we can’t stop anyone on defense….& then laying all the blame for that inability at the 1 guy on defense whose actually doing something.

Well duh, “he” can’t be last. But “he” as the primary steward of the other 10 guys for our OVERALL offense needs help in being able to deal with that pressure more effectively. & thus far he’s not getting much of it.

They aren’t excuses if they’re valid.

We’re near the bottom of the league in rushing

We’re down 4 starters on the o-line

and we have a rookie playcaller whose called some suspect plays thus far.

You can add to this that in 2 full games, we’ve only led for like 2 minutes between the both. That means the kid hasn’t really been able to even experience playing the position from out front. Instead he’s mostly been in obvious passing situations which makes playing defense easy b/c they know they are free to continually pin their ears back on 3rd and long.

Dealing with pressure isn’t a qb alone thing.
 
Number19 said:
Mills was discussed in depth. If you are meaning "splits", it's possible this info was not available at the time. I don't recall splits being used for any player until just recently.
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Splits have always been a thing.

With Mills, the split stat during his first season was that he was MUCH better at home (with a >105 passer rating) than he was on the road (with a <70 passer rating.) His splits have been discussed ad nauseum, I think.

With Schaub, the sad split was that before his foot injury, his passer rating was MUCH higher against the blitz. So much so that teams were hesitant to bring pressure against him. After his injury, he couldn't launch the ball with the same velocity and started being terrible against the blitz. He could still recognize it but he couldn't get the ball to the hot receiver fast enough.
 
Number19 said:
Mills was discussed in depth. If you are meaning "splits", it's possible this info was not available at the time. I don't recall splits being used for any player until just recently.
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No he was not. Nobody was on here dropping what Corrosion just posted. Exactly no one was posting this split stuff either. Especially those that are against CJ. Those are the same people doing the exact thing they did with D-Clown4.
 
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mws said:
I agree with you. I do look at QBR & think it has value. I just come back to people making judgment calls.

I guess I'm biased about it because next to football my biggest sport obsession is boxing. I've been following it since the 60s. I cannot tell you how many fights have come to a decision where I have completely disagreed with the outcome. I much prefer a cut & dried knockout.
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Are you talking about Don King Productions and his Judges?
 
I'm not going to go to a great effort to prove nor disprove what I am about to throw out there, but I am guessing, if we were to look at Mills's splits of pressure versus non pressure it would actually put Mills in a better light than our own eyes.

It's up to you in whether and to what degree you interpret the advanced stats. The person delivering the stats probably doesn't care how you feel about them. I know the content creators don't care. They just compile the data and let others debate the validity.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Splits have always been a thing.

With Mills, the split stat during his first season was that he was MUCH better at home (with a >105 passer rating) than he was on the road (with a <70 passer rating.) His splits have been discussed ad nauseum, I think.

With Schaub, the sad split was that before his foot injury, his passer rating was MUCH higher against the blitz. So much so that teams were hesitant to bring pressure against him. After his injury, he couldn't launch the ball with the same velocity and started being terrible against the blitz. He could still recognize it but he couldn't get the ball to the hot receiver fast enough.
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I never did care about these things.

Schaub is simply limited and his accuracy was never enough to compensate.

Mills is simply inaccurate.

I don't need no stinking split. :):brando:
 
banned1976 said:
I'm not going to go to a great effort to prove nor disprove what I am about to throw out there, but I am guessing, if we were to look at Mills's splits of pressure versus non pressure it would actually put Mills in a better light than our own eyes.

It's up to you in whether and to what degree you interpret the advanced stats. The person delivering the stats probably doesn't care how you feel about them. I know the content creators don't care. They just compile the data and let others debate the validity.
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Who's Mills? :brando:
 
76Texan said:
CJ'a climbing up the ranking.

sportsnaut.com

NFL QB Rankings 2024: From Patrick Mahomes to Gardner Minshew - Sportsnaut

Dive into our 32 NFL QB rankings and find out where your team's starter lands. Updated regularly to reflect the ever-changing NFL news cycle.
sportsnaut.com sportsnaut.com

19th is the highest I've seen so far.
On most rankings, he's between the low 20s to the mid 20s.
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I seem to recall seeing him as high as 17 in one poll and 18 in another, on Monday. Now, if we can just fix our OL and give him a split second more time!
 
76Texan said:
CJ'a climbing up the ranking.

sportsnaut.com

NFL QB Rankings 2024: From Patrick Mahomes to Gardner Minshew - Sportsnaut

Dive into our 32 NFL QB rankings and find out where your team's starter lands. Updated regularly to reflect the ever-changing NFL news cycle.
sportsnaut.com sportsnaut.com

19th is the highest I've seen so far.
On most rankings, he's between the low 20s to the mid 20s.
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I don't care about the ranking for right now, he's still learning. But I love that they have him rated above Watson. :lol:
 
Mr teX said:
Dealing with pressure isn’t a qb alone thing.
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No one ever said it was a QB only issue .... All I did was give you a statistic.

You ran with it out into left field.

Texansballer74 said:
No he was not. Nobody was on here dropping what Corrosion just posted. Exactly no one was posting this split stuff either. Especially those that are against CJ. Those are the same people doing the exact thing they did with D-Clown4.
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Absolutely No Texans fan is "against CJ".

He's our QB and we're stuck with him for better or worse - hopefully for better.
 
Corrosion said:
No one ever said it was a QB only issue .... All I did was give you a statistic.

You ran with it out into left field.



Absolutely No Texans fan is "against CJ".

He's our QB and we're stuck with him for better or worse - hopefully for better.
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Why didn’t you post these same stats for Mills. And yes there is a few who are against CJ. That’s why they’re so keyed in on the negative.
I haven’t seen you post one positive thing about CJ either.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Why didn’t you post these same stats for Mills. And yes there is a few who are against CJ. That’s why they’re so keyed in on the negative.
I haven’t seen you post one positive thing about CJ either.
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Mills was a 3rd round pick and he's not the QB this year, why are you concerned about him?
 
Texansballer74 said:
So as long as stats fits your narrative/agenda. It’s worth mentioning and bringing up huh. But when it doesn’t, stats are for losers.

Pretty darn comical
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No stats are part of the equation. I believe PFF stats in particular are skewed. A general rating like being ranked 32nd in something is quite different than say PFF's QBR rating as an example but you know this.

If you're ranked 32nd or last at something and say the number is skewed, then most likely you're 22nd to 25th at best and that's still not good, wouldn't you agree?
 
Mr teX said:
Lol…but it’s like saying we can’t win games if we can’t stop anyone on defense….& then laying all the blame for that inability at the 1 guy on defense whose actually doing something.

Well duh, “he” can’t be last. But “he” as the primary steward of the other 10 guys for our OVERALL offense needs help in being able to deal with that pressure more effectively. & thus far he’s not getting much of it.

They aren’t excuses if they’re valid.

We’re near the bottom of the league in rushing

We’re down 4 starters on the o-line

and we have a rookie playcaller whose called some suspect plays thus far.

You can add to this that in 2 full games, we’ve only led for like 2 minutes between the both. That means the kid hasn’t really been able to even experience playing the position from out front. Instead he’s mostly been in obvious passing situations which makes playing defense easy b/c they know they are free to continually pin their ears back on 3rd and long.

Dealing with pressure isn’t a qb alone thing.
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I'm not commenting on his play, because I dont want to be accused of being critical of Stroud's play because he's a rookie playing behind a subpar OL. Just like I wasn't critical of Mills last yr because of the crappy OL. Difference is Stroud's OL has the ability to greatly improve in 6 weeks or so. Then we can see if Stroud can improve from 32nd. I was only pointing out that Stroud was 32nd and that wasn't good. Something he needs to get better at dealing with. I actually think the terrible OL will help Stroud's development in the long run. Speed up his decision making when the starting OL gets back.
 
badboy said:
would it not be appropriate for steelbtexan to decide that?
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No steel guitar

But I think the Texans new theme song should be Hard Hearted Hannah by Ray Charles.

Replace Savannah GA, with she's the gold digging winnah from H-Town Texas USA.

If you want Steel you cant go wrong with Allen Collins and Gary Rossington doing Freebird.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Why didn’t you post these same stats for Mills. And yes there is a few who are against CJ. That’s why they’re so keyed in on the negative.
I haven’t seen you post one positive thing about CJ either.
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You probably wont find me saying anything positive or negative until yr 2 offseason or 2 1/2 yrs into his tenure on the Texans. Unlike you.
 
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