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VY worked out and nobody cares?

Nighthawk

Nighthawk

Rookie
This is the triumph of the small-minded. I'm stunned. This board has gone dead.

Yeah, I know it's unlikely we'll make the smart move and take Young, or better yet, trade down and still take Young, but for his workout here not to cause the slightest stir is thought prokoking.

Maybe it's just as well. Bush will be fine, or, if we're lucky, somebody else will want Bush enough to make a decent offer for him (and I think we'd trade the #1 for anything approaching a decent offer).

Right now Bush is the greatest college football player who ever played the game who nobody in the NFL really wants! Crazy!
 
Once again, I'll ask the question that I have asked on here so many times and never gotten a response to...If we were going to draft a QB, why would we draft Vince Young when he is not even the top rated QB in this draft?
 
weren't you listening to reggie? whats the point in fans discussing it when they know we're not taking him...
 
texan279 said:
Once again, I'll ask the question that I have asked on here so many times and never gotten a response to...If we were going to draft a QB, why would we draft Vince Young when he is not even the top rated QB in this draft?
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Actually, according to many of the draft experts VY is the top QB in the draft. ML has fallen.
 
Nighthawk said:
This is the triumph of the small-minded. I'm stunned. This board has gone dead.

Yeah, I know it's unlikely we'll make the smart move and take Young, or better yet, trade down and still take Young, but for his workout here not to cause the slightest stir is thought prokoking.

Maybe it's just as well. Bush will be fine, or, if we're lucky, somebody else will want Bush enough to make a decent offer for him (and I think we'd trade the #1 for anything approaching a decent offer).

Right now Bush is the greatest college football player who ever played the game who nobody in the NFL really wants! Crazy!
Click to expand...


i live in florida and ahve gotten zero information about it...im dying of curiousity
 
The Texans had VY in today for 1 of 2 reasons:

1. Out of obligation to all the VY fans - because if they didn't at least have him work out, there would always be smack talk.

2. Because they are actually considering him - and extended Carr's contract to help tutor him along.

I think we all know that it's 95-99% that the Texans will draft Bush. Sorry, no trade down. How many picks would it take to equal with Bush brings to the table. A running back with explosive and elusive speed. A reciever who can catch the ball who is explosive and has elusive speed. A kick returner who is explosive and has elusive speed. By all accounts, that may be equivalent to at least 2 high first round picks and maybe a high second round pick... this year. Hmmm... not one team has that to offer.

For those who think it will be a big mistake to pass on VY. It would be a bigger mistake to pass on Reggie Bush - the Texans know that.
 
texan279 said:
Once again, I'll ask the question that I have asked on here so many times and never gotten a response to...If we were going to draft a QB, why would we draft Vince Young when he is not even the top rated QB in this draft?
Click to expand...

A. Leinart doesn't have decent mobility, which Kubiak's O demands. He would be a step back from Carr in this regard.
B. He gets a lot of pub because he's safe... i've never heard anybody talk of tremendous upside. He'll be good quickly but not necessarily great. He's not the prospect Palmer was.
C. Carr is servicable, but a truly dynamic QB like Young makes you think twice... just like the Bush/DD situation. Imagine if people thought Deangelo Williams was the top rated back (he was for a while), would you take him instead of a guy with better upside/playmaking ability and diverse talents.
D. Marketing matters. The biggest gaffe from a PR/marketing standpoint would be to pass on two unseen talents, a local hero at the same position and an exciting guy like Bush, for a pocket passer.
E. Top rated by national consensus doesn't necessarily mean the best thing for this team, staff, or town.
 
Dr. Toro said:
E. Top rated by national consensus doesn't necessarily mean the best thing for this team, staff, or town.
Click to expand...
Just as local consensus doesn't necessarily mean the best thing for this team, staff, or town...
 
What's interesting is that even the Chronicle is relatively subdued about the VY visit, too...

Of course, Rich Lord makes up for it all...
 
texan279 said:
Once again, I'll ask the question that I have asked on here so many times and never gotten a response to...If we were going to draft a QB, why would we draft Vince Young when he is not even the top rated QB in this draft?
Click to expand...



Matt is good he is a safe pick but for our style of football he would be no bueno. matt is just the most NFL ready QB now but he's upside is no were near what VY is and that has nothing to do that VY is from houston.
the only time i saw Matt Leinart VS Vince Young they both had great games VY just proved he wanted it more. by me saying this doesnt mean i want VY i want what is best for the team.:stirpot:
 
Nighthawk said:
This is the triumph of the small-minded. I'm stunned. This board has gone dead.

Yeah, I know it's unlikely we'll make the smart move and take Young, or better yet, trade down and still take Young, but for his workout here not to cause the slightest stir is thought prokoking.

Maybe it's just as well. Bush will be fine, or, if we're lucky, somebody else will want Bush enough to make a decent offer for him (and I think we'd trade the #1 for anything approaching a decent offer).

Right now Bush is the greatest college football player who ever played the game who nobody in the NFL really wants! Crazy!
Click to expand...

Every team in the league knows that in order to get Bush then they would have to surrender this draft and maybe all of next years pick to the Texans. So everybody is just surrendering the idea that Bush will be a Texans. Nobody tried to trade up to Houston or Chicago when they both got Hakeem and Jordan in the 86 NBA Draft.
 
Nighthawk said:
This is the triumph of the small-minded.
Click to expand...

What does that mean? Whose responsibility is it to discuss Young's visit? Are the ones who can't enough of Vince and don't discuss him now the small minded ones, or the ones who aren't interested in Vince required to discuss him?
 
I believe their are a lot of NFL types who think Cutler might be the best of the QB's. I think its in the eyes of the beholder and their is no clear cut best. That in facts helps Bush, because he is the best of his lot. This is why Bush probably is a safer choice to many. Each of the 3 QB's have their weaknesses and strengths. There are no guarnatees not even Bush and I favor Bush at this point over others.
 
Runner said:
What does that mean? Whose responsibility is it to discuss Young's visit? Are the ones who can't enough of Vince and don't discuss him now the small minded ones, or the ones who aren't interested in Vince required to discuss him?
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Whose? LOL. Do DAt Dere.
 
I missed the interview today, but I caught a highlight of it on the 610 Sportsflash....

All I heard was him talking about the drills he ran....can't remember specifics. It was about a 10 secound blurb.
 
It would be a true stunner if the Texans drafted VY and kept Carr . With all the upper level talent in the top 10 players if we don't come up with a starter I'm giving up and joining Football Anonimous .

Reggie may also be the best WR in the draft along with being the best RB . I also think he is a guy you can build around .
 
Link AP "Young says Texans may make him No. 1 pick"

The former Texas quarterback said Friday he still thinks his hometown team is open to drafting him.

“That’s why I believe that I came here today,” Young said. “You never know what is going on. A lot of people say Reggie is going to be here, but you never know.”
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You know, here is my random thought of the evening. I know that all sorts of people think that Brees played better because of Phillip Rivers pushing him.

It may be that the Vince talk, the Vince on-site interviews, etc, is a way of pushing Carr even if we don't draft Vince. That there is the spector of the Texans Vince that coulda been that might give Carr an extra nudge this season. Anyone who is competitive in Carr's shoes would feel that way.

I saw only a part of an interview with Vince on local TV. Only caught enough of it to say that he had a really sharp suit on.
 
Texans_Chick said:
You know, here is my random thought of the evening. I know that all sorts of people think that Brees played better because of Phillip Rivers pushing him.
Click to expand...

I don't buy the Rivers pushing him theory... maybe the 'no one can cover Gates and Tomlinson' theory had more to do with it.

Brees 2005 - 89.2 rating 24TD 15 INT Gates 1101 yds 10 TD
Brees 2004 - 104 rating 27TD 7 INT Gates 964 yds 13 TD
Brees 2003 - 67.5 rating 11TD 15 INT Gates 389 yds 2TD
Brees 2002 - 76.9 rating 17TD 16 INT Gates not in league

Surround a QB with talent, and the talent will show. Football is a team sport and I believe with AJ, Moulds, Bush, Davis, that Carr has a solid year.
 
Texans_Chick said:
It may be that the Vince talk, the Vince on-site interviews, etc, is a way of pushing Carr even if we don't draft Vince. That there is the spector of the Texans Vince that coulda been that might give Carr an extra nudge this season. Anyone who is competitive in Carr's shoes would feel that way.
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Interesting idea. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the logic behind their pursual of Vince this offseason.
 
To further illustrate my point about Young's unique talent, in Len Pasquarelli's latest tipsheet on ESPN insider, he says Green Bay is seriously considering him regardless of what Brett Favre does next year, and regardless of the fact that they drafted a 1st round QB in '05.
 
kcwilson said:
I don't buy the Rivers pushing him theory... maybe the 'no one can cover Gates and Tomlinson' theory had more to do with it.

Brees 2005 - 89.2 rating 24TD 15 INT Gates 1101 yds 10 TD
Brees 2004 - 104 rating 27TD 7 INT Gates 964 yds 13 TD
Brees 2003 - 67.5 rating 11TD 15 INT Gates 389 yds 2TD
Brees 2002 - 76.9 rating 17TD 16 INT Gates not in league

Surround a QB with talent, and the talent will show. Football is a team sport and I believe with AJ, Moulds, Bush, Davis, that Carr has a solid year.
Click to expand...

I might be wrong, but I believe Texans Chick was saying that making David think that he might be replaced by Vince would motivate him to work harder. The Texans might have had no intention of ever drafting him, but by making David think that it was possible, they could push him a little to be more competitive and work harder in the offseason.
 
I think better questions would be:

Why is it that the new coaching staff is working with the entire team for the first time and nobody cares?

The roles and repsonsibilities of the players on the roster are being worked out right now. Where's the press? Where's the discussion?
 
tulexan said:
I might be wrong, but I believe Texans Chick was saying that making David think that he might be replaced by Vince would motivate him to work harder. The Texans might have had no intention of ever drafting him, but by making David think that it was possible, they could push him a little to be more competitive and work harder in the offseason.
Click to expand...

I see what she is saying with regards to the 'threat' of Young being a motivator for Carr to learn the playbook, work with Kubes, etc.

However, I don't buy the fact that the threat of Rivers playing all of a sudden made Brees focus more etc. I think that they just got great talent around him at the receiving corps... that was a bigger help more than any other factor.

Bringing in VY, which may be great for the Texans, wouldn't make Carr that much better if they didn't upgrade the talent around him... Long story short, talent helps more than position battles.
 
Runner said:
I think better questions would be:

Why is it that the new coaching staff is working with the entire team for the first time and nobody cares?

The roles and repsonsibilities of the players on the roster are being worked out right now. Where's the press? Where's the discussion?
Click to expand...

I think it is a telltale sign that they had that discussion with Reggie Bush, and even though the press clippings for VY haven't made it out, we should see if the 'role' conversation was had with VY and what arises out of that.
 
kcwilson said:
I see what she is saying with regards to the 'threat' of Young being a motivator for Carr to learn the playbook, work with Kubes, etc.

However, I don't buy the fact that the threat of Rivers playing all of a sudden made Brees focus more etc. I think that they just got great talent around him at the receiving corps... that was a bigger help more than any other factor.

Bringing in VY, which may be great for the Texans, wouldn't make Carr that much better if they didn't upgrade the talent around him... Long story short, talent helps more than position battles.
Click to expand...


I agree with you. The Rivers pushing Brees argument wasn't that great because Rivers didn't cause Gates to be one of the best TEs in the league or make the defense play better.
 
Some one should inform the admin guys on this message board to just segregate this message board into Bush :homer: only, and Young :homer: only. You go to the area that you belong and stop writing complete B.S. just to P.O. the other people. I respect a good debate based off of fact, and when credible information and statistics are made to argue a position. Most people on this board write complete nonesence, and when credible post are made haters and basher make S.A. comments to show there aliance. It is so childish and immature, sort of like the idiots who call 610 and just scream pick Bush of scream pick Vince. That is so stupid and I am sure that some of you :homer: in this blog are the ones doing it.
 
I caught VY on 610 this afternoon with Rich and Marc.
He was sincere, genuine, and thoughtful. Said he had workouts and/or
visits planned with the Jets, Titans, Vikings, Browns, and Dolphins after
todays visit with the Texans.
I wish him nothing but the best in his NFL career.
 
kcwilson said:
I think it is a telltale sign that they had that discussion with Reggie Bush, and even though the press clippings for VY haven't made it out, we should see if the 'role' conversation was had with VY and what arises out of that.
Click to expand...

Not Reggie. Not Vince. The players currently on the roster and in off-season workouts. Right now the coaches are figuring out how to use the linebackers they have, the o-lineman they have, etc. Yes these decisions are fluid with free agency and the draft, but wouldn't you like to know what the depth chart looks like right now?
 
Runner said:
Not Reggie. Not Vince. The players currently on the roster and in off-season workouts. Right now the coaches are figuring out how to use the linebackers they have, the o-lineman they have, etc. Yes these decisions are fluid with free agency and the draft, but wouldn't you like to know what the depth chart looks like right now?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but those competitions will be decided in camp. This is Kubes first run with players during practices... needs a little more time to decide on depth.

I have seen plenty of threads with speculation (read the one with Babin as the MLB, that was comedy). With 15 LBs on our roster right now, that seems to be the biggest one unknown and the remainder is the secondary, which we won't know much about until after the draft since we expect to take 1 or 2, plus talking with SS Stone from NE today.
 
kcwilson said:
Agreed, but those competitions will be decided in camp. This is Kubes first run with players during practices... needs a little more time to decide on depth.

I have seen plenty of threads with speculation (read the one with Babin as the MLB, that was comedy). With 15 LBs on our roster right now, that seems to be the biggest one unknown and the remainder is the secondary, which we won't know much about until after the draft since we expect to take 1 or 2, plus talking with SS Stone from NE today.
Click to expand...

Right - with so many threads of speculation, it would be nice to get some real info - there is a lot of interest. Some people may be tired of reading/hearing the same stuff over and over.
 
kcwilson said:
I see what she is saying with regards to the 'threat' of Young being a motivator for Carr to learn the playbook, work with Kubes, etc.

However, I don't buy the fact that the threat of Rivers playing all of a sudden made Brees focus more etc. I think that they just got great talent around him at the receiving corps... that was a bigger help more than any other factor.

Bringing in VY, which may be great for the Texans, wouldn't make Carr that much better if they didn't upgrade the talent around him... Long story short, talent helps more than position battles.
Click to expand...


Tulexan was right with what I was saying. I wasn't making the argument for picking Young in that post. I was just saying what "some" think, but maybe that it is craftier to put the pressure on Carr without going through with picking VY if he really doesn't fit your team.

(This of course is assuming that there might be a little truth to the babying Carr/not working hard enough rumors and that they are actually going through that thought process--a couple of big assumptions and really I am just thinking outloud.)

As for the reality of the Brees/Rivers thing, you really can't figure out alternative history thing one way or another. (I lean against that point of view but you never know). I personally don't believe the pressure argument of the guy on the bench motivating the starter is a good use of a #1 pick.
 
Runner said:
Right - with so many threads of speculation, it would be nice to get some real info - there is a lot of interest. Some people may be tired of reading/hearing the same stuff over and over.
Click to expand...

Agreed. What do you do with 15 LBs and 3 spots... Babin and Peek play De, so now you have 13.

They signed Terry Pierce, Cowart, Rainier, Moreno... they have Greenwood, Wong, Polk, and Orr. Re-signed Evan... Acholonu, Chamberlain, Torrey, and Anderson are practice squadders?

You're right... some thought process would be nice.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Tulexan was right with what I was saying. I wasn't making the argument for picking Young in that post. I was just saying what "some" think, but maybe that it is craftier to put the pressure on Carr without going through with picking VY if he really doesn't fit your team.

(This of course is assuming that there might be a little truth to the babying Carr/not working hard enough rumors and that they are actually going through that thought process--a couple of big assumptions and really I am just thinking outloud.)

As for the reality of the Brees/Rivers thing, you really can't figure out alternative history thing one way or another. (I lean against that point of view but you never know). I personally don't believe the pressure argument of the guy on the bench motivating the starter is a good use of a #1 pick.
Click to expand...

The way I see it, we are lucky to just get a player like Young or Bush that will have a tremendous marketing value, not just with the fans, but the league and other players in the league. I just think Gates made Brees and hope that Moulds, Bush, etc make Carr.

Ok, beer time now.
 
LoneStarState said:
The Texans had VY in today for 1 of 2 reasons:

2. Because they are actually considering him - and extended Carr's contract to help tutor him along.
Click to expand...

I doubt seriously that Carr will be tutoring Vince.

In a perfect world, Vince will be drafted by Houston. Ragone will be gone. David & Sage would give us the best chance to win. Vince would sit till next season, or 'til we are mathmatically out of the playoffs.

$8million for David to play this year, isn't a lot of money. If we trade him next year, it'll be a $4million hit........ not too bad. Not that anyone wants to take a $4million dollar hit, but hopefully David plays well enough that we are well compensated.


chances are slim, that this is what Kubes has in mind....... but that's what I'd do.

MasterC25 said:
Every team in the league knows that in order to get Bush then they would have to surrender this draft and maybe all of next years pick to the Texans. So everybody is just surrendering the idea that Bush will be a Texans. Nobody tried to trade up to Houston or Chicago when they both got Hakeem and Jordan in the 86 NBA Draft.
Click to expand...


or......... or, maybe no one else thinks he's worth it... no one was willing to trade up for Carr in 2002, or Alex last year.

kcwilson said:
I don't buy the Rivers pushing him theory... maybe the 'no one can cover Gates and Tomlinson' theory had more to do with it.

Brees 2005 - 89.2 rating 24TD 15 INT Gates 1101 yds 10 TD
Brees 2004 - 104 rating 27TD 7 INT Gates 964 yds 13 TD
Brees 2003 - 67.5 rating 11TD 15 INT Gates 389 yds 2TD
Brees 2002 - 76.9 rating 17TD 16 INT Gates not in league

Surround a QB with talent, and the talent will show. Football is a team sport and I believe with AJ, Moulds, Bush, Davis, that Carr has a solid year.
Click to expand...

The only talent we lost in 2005, was Billy Miller. In 2004, Carr has enough talent to get it done. In 2005, same players, same coaches.... he doesn't... hmmm.


Dr. Toro said:
To further illustrate my point about Young's unique talent, in Len Pasquarelli's latest tipsheet on ESPN insider, he says Green Bay is seriously considering him regardless of what Brett Favre does next year, and regardless of the fact that they drafted a 1st round QB in '05.
Click to expand...

If we can't afford to pay Vince and Carr, there is no way the Packers can pay Brett & Vince. No way.
tulexan said:
I might be wrong, but I believe Texans Chick was saying that making David think that he might be replaced by Vince would motivate him to work harder. The Texans might have had no intention of ever drafting him, but by making David think that it was possible, they could push him a little to be more competitive and work harder in the offseason.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't have to do this with a #1 overall QB......
 
thunderkyss said:
The only talent we lost in 2005, was Billy Miller. In 2004, Carr has enough talent to get it done. In 2005, same players, same coaches.... he doesn't... hmmm.
Click to expand...

They also benched Wando and the line play plummeted. Not saying it is strictly cause and effect, but he was superior to Riley.
 
thunderkyss said:
The only talent we lost in 2005, was Billy Miller. In 2004, Carr has enough talent to get it done. In 2005, same players, same coaches.... he doesn't... hmmm.
Click to expand...


"Talent" has to mean more than a gimpy AJ.

And a Oline that never got it together and was injured and had everybody playing in musical chair positions.

And canning the offensive coordinator in week 3. And then putting the training wheels on with Pendry. (BTW, no more freaking swing passes to a Andre Johnson--that's like getting Pavarotti to sing Mary Had a Little Lamb).
 
Based on the moves the Texans have made these last few weeks, anyone with half a brain knows who the Texans are selecting. Perhaps that's why its so quite.

The VY workout was a PR move. The only chance the Texans consider taking VY is if Bush and his agent convey too much greed during negotiations. Otherwise its a done deal IMO...
 
Texans bringing in Young, has nothing to do with Football related issues; it's all about Marketing. If you can bring in a local kid, and not have to fly him in, or spend tremendous amounts of money on advertising, and you can get NATIONAL FREE ATTENTION to your club that's worth MILLIONS of dollars!

If you don't have to pay for it, you'll do it time and time again. That's why keeping the #1 overall pick, is much more valuable than taking the best player available. It's all about all the free media attention, and branding of your franchise that comes along with it.

The Texans NEED all the media attention it can get it's hands on since they don't have any National games. They doing Young a favor by keeping his stock up as high as possible; and the Texans are getting free Pub; That's all what this visit is about. :homer:
 
I did like that Vince hoped for the best for Reggie and said that he will be pulling for him if he plays for the Texans or any other team.

I suspect that the media is going to try to make a rivalry out of Vince v. Reggie eventhough there is no animosity between the two guys and both like each other.
 
Nighthawk said:
This is the triumph of the small-minded. I'm stunned. This board has gone dead.
Click to expand...

In what way have the "small-minded" triumphed? Are you saying that those who never felt Vince Young was the right pick have won? If so why are people who don't agree with you "small minded"? You think Young is the way to go and I think Bush is the better choice. You're not small minded IMO, you just have a different opinion. I think this was a poor choice of words on your part.

Nighthawk said:
Yeah, I know it's unlikely we'll make the smart move and take Young, or better yet, trade down and still take Young, but for his workout here not to cause the slightest stir is thought prokoking.
Click to expand...

It is interesting. The massive outpouring for Vince seems to be fading as quickly as it appeared following the Rose Bowl. Prior to that game there was barely a peep out of anyone on the board at that time about Vince Young. Then suddenly everyone it seemed had always wanted us to take Vince but just didn't think it was possible. Now the Texans make a few moves that seem to indicate that they're not going to take a QB and just like that the support for taking Vince just dries up? It's strange how fast that happened.

Nighthawk said:
Maybe it's just as well. Bush will be fine, or, if we're lucky, somebody else will want Bush enough to make a decent offer for him (and I think we'd trade the #1 for anything approaching a decent offer).

Right now Bush is the greatest college football player who ever played the game who nobody in the NFL really wants! Crazy!
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"Bush will be fine". How magnanimous of you. I'm glad that he's going to be "ok". Good to know that "he'll do".

You might be willing to trade the #1 for anything approaching a decent offer but the Texans haven't done anything to make me think they'd swwap it for the first package that doesn't look too pitiful. You act like they're dying to get out of the top spot or something. Where are you getting that?

I also don't see anything outside of you Vince fans posts that would tell me that nobody in the NFL really wants Reggie Bush. I think the number of people watching his pro-day pretty much puts the lie to that.
 
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