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VY: Once in a lifetime athlete?

Wolf

Wolf

100% Texan
He didn't win the Heisman Trophy, even though many thought he deserved it.

But this quarterback didn't need that award to prove his worth, not after dazzling the college football world and NFL scouts with his uncanny athletic ability.


"He is a once-in-a-lifetime athlete,'' said Dave Te' Thomas of The NFL Draft Report. "No one in the NFL can hold a candle to this kid. He is the prototype quarterback of the future. Twenty years from now, we'll be sitting up in Canton (Ohio at the Pro Football Hall of Fame) where he's dusting off his bust.''

Vince Young?

Nope, although many experts are saying similar things about the University of Texas quarterback leading up to the April 29-30 NFL Draft.

Those words were uttered in 1994 to describe Steve McNair, who was in his final season at Alcorn State.
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http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060210/SPORTS01/602100430/1027

I posted that on the NFL section a while back but didn't see it.
:stirpot:
 
Napa Auto Parts said:
well for and athlete he plays the positon pretty good even beat the number one Quaterback in the national championship.
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Put Barry Sanders in at QB at the college level and he will beat people too. Doesnt make him a good QB. :cool:
 
Take this for a little perspective. McNair is an excellent QB who was exceedingly well qualified to win a SB but has not. At the same time, folks have been talking about QB's changing the role of QB's for decades and it hasn't happened. It may, but none of the new QB formula hasn't been tried before. Apply that to VY and what do you have? No he is not going to redefine the position, but if a coaching staff develops him correctly and uses him correctly he very well could be special enough to win SB's if, like any QB, the team around him is also SB worthy.
 
infantrycak said:
Take this for a little perspective. McNair is an excellent QB who was exceedingly well qualified to win a SB but has not. At the same time, folks have been talking about QB's changing the role of QB's for decades and it hasn't happened. It may, but none of the new QB formula hasn't been tried before. Apply that to VY and what do you have? No he is not going to redefine the position, but if a coaching staff develops him correctly and uses him correctly he very well could be special enough to win SB's if, like any QB, the team around him is also SB worthy.
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That is a perspective I can agree with. With that in mind, the real question becomes "do we need to get a project QB".. and in my mind the answer is no.

if you step back and look at all the starting QBs in the league, I dont know how you can then look at David Carr and say he is a bust. The potential is still there. id rather make HIM my project QB and use our first round pick on someone else who can help the team out while Carr is on the field.
 
Why do people still post positive things about Vince on this Texans Message Board? This message board is infected with Reggie Bush Mud Sharks. They sit around and scan through the threads in hope to find a positive Vince comment to thrash and bash. The Mud Sharks work in packs; it’s always the same 6 to 8 idiots posting the same feeble crap over and over.

IMAG0404.JPG
 
Grid said:
That is a perspective I can agree with. With that in mind, the real question becomes "do we need to get a project QB".. and in my mind the answer is no.

if you step back and look at all the starting QBs in the league, I dont know how you can then look at David Carr and say he is a bust. The potential is still there. id rather make HIM my project QB and use our first round pick on someone else who can help the team out while Carr is on the field.
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There have been about 12 QB's in the past two years who have been cut by their teams who have had way more sucess than David Carr, way better Stats, way better decision making skills during games, just muach better talent. We have the most expensive back up QB in the League starting for our team.
 
Hey Mud Sharks, you guys would not know talent if it was slapping you in the face. You guys have your heads so far down on Reggie Bushes crotch that I dont see how yall have time for a life. I guess Vince Young will not be a success in the N.F.L. because a bunch of pea-brain Mud Sharks say it is so. Why don't you Homers keep your Pro-Bush annotations in the Broke Back only threads and leave Vince Young supporters alone.
 
i'm tired of these "once in a lifetime athlete" labels being applied every year (and sometimes more than once a year, oddly enough) to some player. michael vick was suppose to revolutionize the QB position, and if anything, the position has gotten MORE prototypical of the pocket QB. QB's don't need to be athletes, they need to be quarterbacks first.
 
Because he is 1AA (but can the competition be much different than Alcorn St.)? Grabbibg Nealy in the 6th round and letting him sit for a couple years intrigues me.
 
kastofsna said:
i'm tired of these "once in a lifetime athlete" labels being applied every year (and sometimes more than once a year, oddly enough) to some player. michael vick was suppose to revolutionize the QB position, and if anything, the position has gotten MORE prototypical of the pocket QB. QB's don't need to be athletes, they need to be quarterbacks first.
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I've been making jokes about this myself. The media really has some fans wrapped around their fingers.
 
We all know the media has a tendency to overstate things, but we also know when a guy does things on a football field that have not been seen (or have only been seen very rarely) before. If a player can be a gamebreaking college QB only because he is the best athlete on the field (as some have said), then why didn't Bush take snaps? Being the QB at the college level involves a bit more than being the best athletic talent, and the same goes for running back at the pro level...
 
Grid said:
Put Barry Sanders in at QB at the college level and he will beat people too. Doesnt make him a good QB. :cool:
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Barry Sanders couldn't pass like VY. Yes, VY is a special athlete. I also believe if he goes to a team that is willing to let him use his athletic talents, he will be a special QB at the pro level too. Look at the team he beat in the Rose Bowl! Two Heisman winners and a TON of NFL prospects. 41-38, that's all I need to know!
 
Grid said:
That is a perspective I can agree with. With that in mind, the real question becomes "do we need to get a project QB".. and in my mind the answer is no.

if you step back and look at all the starting QBs in the league, I dont know how you can then look at David Carr and say he is a bust. The potential is still there. id rather make HIM my project QB and use our first round pick on someone else who can help the team out while Carr is on the field.
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Do we need to get a project QB??? Well, we already have a project QB...the same one we have had for the last 4 years. He still has a lot of potential, but after 4 years, will that potential ever be realized? That is the question that I want answered.
 
Grid said:
Put Barry Sanders in at QB at the college level and he will beat people too. Doesnt make him a good QB. :cool:
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Would he also take a team that had WR's with experience levels of 0 and lead the nation in pass efficiency?
 
dwilt72 said:
Barry Sanders couldn't pass like VY. Yes, VY is a special athlete. I also believe if he goes to a team that is willing to let him use his athletic talents, he will be a special QB at the pro level too. Look at the team he beat in the Rose Bowl! Two Heisman winners and a TON of NFL prospects. 41-38, that's all I need to know!
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he beat their defense. and it's not a great defense. consider how fresno state did against them. they put up more points, and that's WITH paul pinegar's 4 interceptions.
 
kastofsna said:
he beat their defense. and it's not a great defense. consider how fresno state did against them. they put up more points, and that's WITH paul pinegar's 4 interceptions.
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Stole my post, lol. My thoughts exactly.
 
kastofsna said:
he beat their defense. and it's not a great defense. consider how fresno state did against them. they put up more points, and that's WITH paul pinegar's 4 interceptions.
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Crap guys, I forgot, co-national champs this year: the Texas Longhorns and the USC offense. I forgot, Reggie and company didn't lose because they weren't on the field while Vince was scoring.
 
Haams said:
Crap guys, I forgot, co-national champs this year: the Texas Longhorns and the USC offense. I forgot, Reggie and company didn't lose because they weren't on the field while Vince was scoring.
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you make it seem like VINCE YOUNG beat USC, not the TEXAS LONGHORNS. i'm sure that's how young feels, but the rest of us realize it's a team sport.
 
Naw, nobody is trying to say it was a one man effort, the D did it's job in getting that one stop in the 2nd half. But everyone at the game and watching TV had no doubt what was going to happen once Texas got the ball, and that was because of one player. Thinking (knowing) that Young was going to led the Longhorns to the goahead score wasn't in a, 'I really hope he can' kinda way, but more like a, 'there's no way he won't' sense. It was like having (enter your favorite comeback QB here) take the reins, and being confident, not worried to hell, like with most QBs. Of course, that's no reason alone to draft a guy, but when you combine that with the physical abilities, it's an intriguing package...
 
kastofsna said:
of course not.
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NO, because on 4th & inches, when the game was on the line, that all American line couldn't pick up the 1st.... Then Vince goes on to score, 4th & 5, or was it 4th & 8th.... that he scored the game winning touchdown.
 
kastofsna said:
you make it seem like VINCE YOUNG beat USC, not the TEXAS LONGHORNS. i'm sure that's how young feels, but the rest of us realize it's a team sport.
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You make it sound like he didn't. The man amoung boys accounted for 467 yards of offense........
 
thunderkyss said:
You make it sound like he didn't. The man amoung boys accounted for 467 yards of offense........
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actually it was a man with a offensive line stocked with men, and a receiving corps stocked with men that won the game. sure, texas doesn't have great receivers, but they're better than USC's defensive backs. it's all about matchups. which is how young was so successful last year: HIS TEAMMATES.
 
KSig44 said:
Athlete....maybe
Quarterback....no
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QBRating.jpg


Do you see where Vince is on this list??

Do you see where Lienart is on this list??

Brady Quinn....... that's another real QB isn't he?? where is he on the list?? above, or below the Athlete??
 
kastofsna said:
actually it was a man with a offensive line stocked with men, and a receiving corps stocked with men that won the game. sure, texas doesn't have great receivers, but they're better than USC's defensive backs. it's all about matchups. which is how young was so successful last year: HIS TEAMMATES.
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So I guess Reggie Bush, and Matt Lienart was playing behind fish right??
 
that has to be wrong there is no way Vince is a QB no way in hell. better than Matt Leinert not a chance who cares if Vince young Owned Matt&Reggie and the whole USC Squad in the national championship.:stirpot:
 
kastofsna said:
actually it was a man with a offensive line stocked with men, and a receiving corps stocked with men that won the game. sure, texas doesn't have great receivers, but they're better than USC's defensive backs. it's all about matchups. which is how young was so successful last year: HIS TEAMMATES.
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Yup, I'm sure if you were behind all that talent you would rack up 467 yards too.

I mean seriously, even anti-VY people can recognize that he played a heck of a Rose Bowl and had a great college career. Whether his talents translate to the NFL is the source of debate. You make it sound as if he did nothing.
 
according to that list, phil horvath is better than leinart. colt brennan is just below him. yeah.

So I guess Reggie Bush, and Matt Lienart was playing behind fish right??
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the difference being they played in a pro-style offense built to exploit defensive flaws, as opposed to being designed to fit the needs of the quarterback. when leinart is gone, and before leinart got there, the offense will be run the same. whoever starts for texas this year will probably be running a more traditional advanced offense.
 
newbiefan said:
Yup, I'm sure if you were behind all that talent you would rack up 467 yards too.

I mean seriously, even anti-VY people can recognize that he played a heck of a Rose Bowl and had a great college career. Whether his talents translate to the NFL is the source of debate. You make it sound as if he did nothing.
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he is a great college QB. just not as great as people say he is. he's about as great as ken dorsey.
 
thunderkyss said:
QBRating.jpg


Do you see where Vince is on this list??

Do you see where Lienart is on this list??

Brady Quinn....... that's another real QB isn't he?? where is he on the list?? above, or below the Athlete??
Click to expand...

So based on this list are Rudy Carpenter and Brian Brohm better QB's than Vince and Leinart? That lists shows me squat actually, Leinart had more yards passing than Young, a better completion percentage than Young, more passing TD's than Young, less INT's than Young, and more passing attempts than Young. The only stat Young did better than Leinart in was yards per attempt, which Young averaged .4 yards more than Leinart per attempt.
 
kastofsna said:
according to that list, phil horvath is better than leinart. colt brennan is just below him. yeah.


the difference being they played in a pro-style offense built to exploit defensive flaws, as opposed to being designed to fit the needs of the quarterback. when leinart is gone, and before leinart got there, the offense will be run the same. whoever starts for texas this year will probably be running a more traditional advanced offense.
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Well, it didn't seem to work too well for it when it counted... 4th and one, Reggie on the sideline, and the only thing getting exploited is USC's defense, by the Man amoung boys, with his arm, and his legs...

and no......... you're wrong again.... they'll be running the same offense. IT seems to work better at exploiting defensive flaws.
 
texan279 said:
So based on this list are Rudy Carpenter and Brian Brohm better QB's than Vince and Leinart? That lists shows me squat actually, Leinart had more yards passing than Young, a better completion percentage than Young, more passing TD's than Young, less INT's than Young, and more passing attempts than Young. The only stat Young did better than Leinart in was yards per attempt, which Young averaged .4 yards more than Leinart per attempt.
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ARe you telling me that you'll bend stats to fit your argument, instead of following along with all the experts you came up with this system of rating a QB??

What a novel idea, I may have to try that sometime...
 
thunderkyss said:
Well, it didn't seem to work too well for it when it counted... 4th and one, Reggie on the sideline, and the only thing getting exploited is USC's defense, by the Man amoung boys, with his arm, and his legs...
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it must be easy to fool yourself into thinking you win arguments when you oversimplify everything and compare apples to oranges. bush was on the sidelines because white is the short-yardage back. texas's defense is 10 times better than USC's. texas's o-line is better than USC's. etc etc. what that has to do with young? nothing at all.
 
thunderkyss said:
ARe you telling me that you'll bend stats to fit your argument, instead of following along with all the experts you came up with this system of rating a QB??

What a novel idea, I may have to try that sometime...
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QB rating in college is by far the most useless stat for QB's. look at the players on the list, what offense they play in, who they play against, etc. and he said it already, there is only ONE category young was better than leinart in in passing, and it's not even that significant of a difference. considering young had more INTs with far less pass attempts is as good a sign as any how useless the QB rating is.
 
thunderkyss said:
ARe you telling me that you'll bend stats to fit your argument, instead of following along with all the experts you came up with this system of rating a QB??

What a novel idea, I may have to try that sometime...
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I'd love for you to show me what "stats I bent", I just took what you posted and pointed out that Leinart had better stats in every category except average yards per attempt, did I bend that? Because it's right there on the list you posted...
 
kastofsna said:
QB rating in college is by far the most useless stat for QB's. look at the players on the list, what offense they play in, who they play against, etc. and he said it already, there is only ONE category young was better than leinart in in passing, and it's not even that significant of a difference. considering young had more INTs with far less pass attempts is as good a sign as any how useless the QB rating is.
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eh......... yeah......

ok. You're funny.
 
My dream is that the Texans draft Bush, and Vince Young drops and drops until the Texans decide to trade the rest of their picks and get him later in the first round..... look, I warned you... I'm dreamin'. But I like it.:yahoo:
 
texan279 said:
I'd love for you to show me what "stats I bent", I just took what you posted and pointed out that Leinart had better stats in every category except average yards per attempt, did I bend that? Because it's right there on the list you posted...
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OK, you didn't bend the stats. You did however package the information in a way to boost your argument. When their is a formula used by pros that would take those numbers, and show you that Vince is the QB with the highest QB rating in the 2006 draft.

For instance...... Vince's YPA is only .4yards better per attempt. But Matt has a better completion percentage(didn't mention it's .5 percent (half a percent)). Matt has more touchdowns, and less ints(didn't mention it was only 2 each, over the course of a year).

Matt has more passing attempts...?? wow. Find out how many more attempts Matt had more than Vince. Then multiply Vince's YPA to that difference. You'd see if Vince had thrown more..... instead of sitting out the 4th quarter. Vince would then have more Passing yards. Do the samething with TDs per pass attempt, Vince would have more TDs. More INTs also.

Then, on top of all that, 976 or some odd rushing yards, from the same player...... I don't know how many rushing TDs........ but I've been told it's more than the #1 rated Running back in the 2006 draft.

he may not be once in a lifetime, but I ain't never seen nothing like him before in my lifetime.
 
thunderkyss said:
QBRating.jpg


Do you see where Vince is on this list??

Do you see where Lienart is on this list??

Brady Quinn....... that's another real QB isn't he?? where is he on the list?? above, or below the Athlete??
Click to expand...

Vince might have been higher on the list but that was because the defense had to be careful if he was going to run or throw the ball. In the NFL he will not be able to do what he did in college. Matt Leinhart is more of the NFL type QB while Vince Young is more of a NCAAF type QB. It's one thing running past a college defense but it's totally different with a NFL defense. NFL teams know how to prepare for it.
 
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