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USC WR Nelson Agholor

steelbtexan said:
I like Agholor a lot better especially for the Texans needs.

Love Rowe but understand the McKinney pick.

Love Hicks, but I'm an admitted UT homer.
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I'm admidetaly biased against USC receivers, on average over hyped & underwhelming but this kid is not typical. He actually works hard & is driven to be the best. Scarey to think of how Chip will develop him, outside or in the slot. Knowing Kelly he's a move player, all over the field. Numbers will look inflated compared to Strong, but that doesn't mean Jaleen doesn't make some big plays, just don't expect that many in O'Brian system.

Rowe just looks more the part, bigger, stronger NFL corner. Also he will probably start as opposed to Johnson who will not start (unless injury dictates otherwise) plus Rowe could wind up playing FS. Also makes more sense to trade up for Rowe, a corner, over ILB McKinney.

Thought Texans where hot for Hicks but guess not? Loved DeMeco Ryan' pick back in 2006, one of my all time favorite Texans. Seems teams now measure position differently.
 
steelbtexan said:
^^^^
This

The question is how good will Kevin Johnson be. The jury is out on that. If given a choice give me Agholor, the Texans had trouble scoring points last yr. Hope I'm wrong about Johnson and he can become a difference maker.
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The way I see it, we could have drafted ODB last year & he wouldn't have made the impact on our team that he made on the Giants (6-10) simply because our triggerman wouldn't have thrown the ball his way.
 
thunderkyss said:
The way I see it, we could have drafted ODB last year & he wouldn't have made the impact on our team that he made on the Giants (6-10) simply because our triggerman wouldn't have thrown the ball his way.
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If Rick Smith could see Forrest before the Trees :forrest: traded out, could have been Bridge over troubled water(s) & (ODB).
 
I like Kevin Johnson, I get the need factor plus clean character profile but this Agholor kid is just killing it in OTA practices, not just because he's supremely gifted but his work ethic is off the charts. Instead of taking the rookie bus in to practice from the hotel, he get up early to catch a cab & be the first one @ practice. Leadership by example, & already impressing NFL teammates like Jordan Matthews who says he is explosive & always asking him questions. Maybe Kevin can curtail his route running & disrupt his game flow for a while but Nelson will work to break a big play or two regardless, that is what will make him great. Sorry I can't accept Strong as our Andre Johnson replacement, I think Texans should have thought harder on this subject & addressed it with their first pick. I'll shut up now & wait for season to roll around, lets see what happens :wesmantexanfan:
 
The dude is gonna be special. It took the national guys a long time to come around on him. I was pretty outspoken about how I felt about him but there were others here as well who saw it immediately.

When I watched his tape he gave me the same feeling Odell Beckham did last year. Not to the same degree but I still felt it. When I'm watching these guys I'm asking myself, how would I cover him? No matter how many scenarios I ran through I kept coming back to the same conclusion. I can't.
 
So I wonder what went into the decision that had KJohnson rated above this guy.
 
I would venture to guess they felt the drop off in corner was that much steeper after round one than the drop off in receiver. Or perhaps they felt that KJo has the stuff to just be that good. Or most likely a combination of these two ideas.
 
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Mollywhopper said:
I would venture to guess they felt the drop off in corner was that much steeper after round one than the drop off in receiver. Or perhaps they felt that KJo has the stuff to just be that good. Or most likely a combination of these two ideas.
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Or they believe you can win Super Bowls with yeoman WRs & Shutdown corners.
 
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Bit semantical that, but ya, I think that general philosophy has a better recent track record than top-5 WR & turnstile CBs. So, ok.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Bit semantical that, but ya, I think that general philosophy has a better recent track record than top-5 WR & turnstile CBs. So, ok.
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I've heard people say this about the Seahawks and the argument can be made that is the end result, that certainly was not their philosophy. They put a whole lot more trade and trade emphasis on WR than they did their secondary. The secondary just ended up panning out better (and they made a coaching decision to dare the officials to keep throwing interference flags).
 
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infantrycak said:
I've heard people say this about the Seahawks and the argument can be made that is the end result, that certainly was not their philosophy. They put a whole lot more trade and trade emphasis on WR than they did their secondary. The secondary just ended up panning out better (and they made a coaching decision to dare the officials to keep throwing interference flags).
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That's fair. An effective model nonetheless, and one that makes sense to try and cherry pick the end result of.
 
It's also possible they feel better about their receiving group than we do & not as confident in their CBs as we are.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I would venture to guess they felt the drop off in corner was that much steeper after round one than the drop off in receiver. Or perhaps they felt that KJo has the stuff to just be that good. Or most likely a combination of these two ideas.
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That would be my guess. If the separation between a group of draftees is small and two are in positions of need, then choosing the position with less depth creates an opportunity to get a better pair to fill both needs. But then you have to be confident there isn't much separation and the thread is full of those who would think the separation was great rather than close.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I would venture to guess they felt the drop off in corner was that much steeper after round one than the drop off in receiver. Or perhaps they felt that KJo has the stuff to just be that good. Or most likely a combination of these two ideas.
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Think it says more about there inability or lack of success evaluating these guys going forward. Eagles had a real weakness in secondary so they went out aggressive in free agency & came out with a stud starting CB with Super Bowl experience (Maxwell) Developed a young stud for cheap to balance (Carroll) & indentified their top CB in the draft (Rowe) to develop. That wasn't end of it they used both 6th rd. picks on good solid corners for special teams & depth. That's a blueprint. Not just heap all the pressure on your 1st rd. selection to ride ship, what happens if he gets injured or struggles?

The one thing striking about the Seattle corner is combination of size & physicality, while there is one big safety & the other is smaller but excellent in coverage. I don't know or understand how Texans evaluate talent. I'm not hearing much about specifics just broad general terms.
 
beerlover said:
Think it says more about there inability or lack of success evaluating these guys going forward. Eagles had a real weakness in secondary so they went out aggressive in free agency & came out with a stud starting CB with Super Bowl experience (Maxwell) Developed a young stud for cheap to balance (Carroll) & indentified their top CB in the draft (Rowe) to develop. That wasn't end of it they used both 6th rd. picks on good solid corners for special teams & depth. That's a blueprint. Not just heap all the pressure on your 1st rd. selection to ride ship, what happens if he gets injured or struggles?

The one thing striking about the Seattle corner is combination of size & physicality, while there is one big safety & the other is smaller but excellent in coverage. I don't know or understand how Texans evaluate talent. I'm not hearing much about specifics just broad general terms.
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As far as the Eagles go it's easy to be aggressive in FA when you've got stacks of cash to throw at a guy like Maxwell, and as accurately as you say they 'identified' Eric Rowe I can just as easily say that if Atlanta had taken him just a few spots earlier instead of J Collins then that throws their entire identification process out the window. And those picks they used in the later rounds on the secondary as well, lot of good that did for the oline depth they needed. It's easy to call something a such a 'blueprint' when you take a reverse engineering perspective on it.

What is heaping all the pressure on our 1st rd pick anyway? The fact that we took him this year gives him a full season to groom under two talented veterans before he has to be 'the guy'. You're acting like we're asking him to be a shut-down tomorrow. He'll be fine.

I get it, you like Agholor. I do too. He's going to be a good one. But I'm going to stop at praising every decision the Eagles make and taking a shite on all of ours just because of that one.
 
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Mollywhopper said:
As far as the Eagles go it's easy to be aggressive in FA when you've got stacks of cash to throw at a guy like Maxwell, and as accurately as you say they 'identified' Eric Rowe I can just as easily say that if Atlanta had taken him just a few spots earlier instead of J Collins then that throws their entire identification process out the window. And those picks they used in the later rounds on the secondary as well, lot of good that did for the oline depth they needed. It's easy to call something a such a 'blueprint' when you take a reverse engineering perspective on it.

What is heaping all the pressure on our 1st rd pick anyway? The fact that we took him this year gives him a full season to groom under two talented veterans before he has to be 'the guy'. You're acting like we're asking him to be a shut-down tomorrow. He'll be fine.

I get it, you like Agholor. I do too. He's going to be a good one. But I'm going to stop at praising every decision the Eagles make and taking a shite on all of ours just because of that one.
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Ok, easy to see this rubbed u wrong way. Let's examine exactly how they had so much cap room. They made hard decisions letting star players walk or traded away big contracts for lesser of what it cost them to sign replacements. Every team has that option, don't they? Matter of fact they are stalemated right now, because they are willing to pay what they're all pro guard wants even though as you suggest OL talent is lacking.

It's not realistic to think Texans can replace Andre Johnson but does leave a huge void to fill. Which is why I wanted to trade up with Vikings for Parker. Having mind set on CB Johnson it probably wasn't even a consideration let alone Nelson Agholor. Texans don't play fast anyway why would they need an explosive speed guy anyway? Lol. So they went with Strong who I hope plays at least faster than words come out of his mouth. Whatever happened to the last receiver Texans drafted in the 3rd rd., heck I've lost track & frankly dear don't give a damn anymore, it just doesnt matter.

Have fun hoping for better rookie class results, a playoff run, beating the Colts whatever it's all Mc'Nairs world.
 
beerlover said:
Ok, easy to see this rubbed u wrong way. Let's examine exactly how they had so much cap room. They made hard decisions letting star players walk or traded away big contracts for lesser of what it cost them to sign replacements. Every team has that option, don't they? Matter of fact they are stalemated right now, because they are willing to pay what they're all pro guard wants even though as you suggest OL talent is lacking.

It's not realistic to think Texans can replace Andre Johnson but does leave a huge void to fill. Which is why I wanted to trade up with Vikings for Parker. Having mind set on CB Johnson it probably wasn't even a consideration let alone Nelson Agholor. Texans don't play fast anyway why would they need an explosive speed guy anyway? Lol. So they went with Strong who I hope plays at least faster than words come out of his mouth. Whatever happened to the last receiver Texans drafted in the 3rd rd., heck I've lost track & frankly dear don't give a damn anymore, it just doesnt matter.

Have fun hoping for better rookie class results, a playoff run, beating the Colts whatever it's all Mc'Nairs world.
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You didn't rub me the wrong way. You just made a transparent notion that because the Texans didn't select the guy you adore that that must mean they're walking around the front offices bumping into one another, while conversely the Eagles taking that guy clearly demonstrates their having engineered some years old architecture for greatness. I disagreed, with reasons.
 
Mollywhopper said:
You didn't rub me the wrong way. You just made a transparent notion that because the Texans didn't select the guy you adore that that must mean they're walking around the front offices bumping into one another, while conversely the Eagles taking that guy clearly demonstrates their having engineered some years old architecture for greatness. I disagreed, with reasons.
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It's something new & something old, intelligent hard work with vision. It's exciting & fresh, I haven't felt around here for years but I do like your hypothesis, bumping into each other in offices sounds about right to me :ahhaha:

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/...receiver-2015-video-scouting-report-breakdown
 
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beerlover said:
Ok, easy to see this rubbed u wrong way. Let's examine exactly how they had so much cap room. They made hard decisions letting star players walk or traded away big contracts for lesser of what it cost them to sign replacements. Every team has that option, don't they? Matter of fact they are stalemated right now, because they are willing to pay what they're all pro guard wants even though as you suggest OL talent is lacking.

It's not realistic to think Texans can replace Andre Johnson but does leave a huge void to fill. Which is why I wanted to trade up with Vikings for Parker. Having mind set on CB Johnson it probably wasn't even a consideration let alone Nelson Agholor. Texans don't play fast anyway why would they need an explosive speed guy anyway? Lol. So they went with Strong who I hope plays at least faster than words come out of his mouth. Whatever happened to the last receiver Texans drafted in the 3rd rd., heck I've lost track & frankly dear don't give a damn anymore, it just doesnt matter.

Have fun hoping for better rookie class results, a playoff run, beating the Colts whatever it's all Mc'Nairs world.
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I think part of it is giving off a whiff of SteelB - anything the Texans do is wrong, everything other team does is right. Texans wrong to pass on Agholor - but 3 more teams passed on him but they don't have McNair / Rick Smith so they were smart. Eagles are geniuses for cutting high $ players, Texans are idiots for cutting Andre Johnson.

You provide a lot of great insight especially on the college players. Just don't turn into SteelBtexan or Texian.
 
Apologize for appearances, in process of classic meltdown of perceived talent evaluation failures. Timing is a big part, injury's have played a role, coaching changes created off lack or success/results, ownership unbending stance on conservatism. Identifying & processing franchise QB. Ability to address area of position that is a constant weakness. Vision.

Talent evaluation takes time, its a lot of work & not for everybody. Let me be clear about one thing, DeVante Parker was my primary target, even knowing trading up was needed to accomplish this pre-draft & nailed the trading partner & spot. I haven't heard Texans felt same way about him, that's their prerogative or Agholor was back-up plan #2. All along, as they've said, Kevin Johnson was their man & they got him so good job. IF anyone cares to look it up, I brought up KJ's name as viable target for Texans 3 weeks before the draft. I made a strong case for his pick with Jonathan Joseph in final year & based off his tape which looks good to me as actually a younger version of Jonathan, who I really still like by the way. But when it all came around I kept coming back to WR or OLB as top needs. My actual #2 option (after Parker) was Bud Dupree.

Happens I picked for Eagles in our group mock draft so knew their needs, weakness & strengths well but missed on Agholor too. But what was accomplished for me, showed differences in systems, being able to get better personnel/fits for Eagles & vice versa Texans think they got better fits for their system than would apply with Eagles. Funny how two of my favorite all time Texans are now Eagles (DeMeco/Barwin) who didn't fit Texans system anymore, case in point. Both teams also moved up, identified a player(s) & paid price to add players they expect to become starters sooner than later. So its a lot more involved than it appears, which is why I generally only post in College & draft forums because normal, everyday fans don't care about all this fluff, just who Texans have that will play on Sundays.
 
beerlover said:
Apologize for appearances, in process of classic meltdown of perceived talent evaluation failures. Timing is a big part, injury's have played a role, coaching changes created off lack or success/results, ownership unbending stance on conservatism. Identifying & processing franchise QB. Ability to address area of position that is a constant weakness. Vision.

Talent evaluation takes time, its a lot of work & not for everybody. Let me be clear about one thing, DeVante Parker was my primary target, even knowing trading up was needed to accomplish this pre-draft & nailed the trading partner & spot. I haven't heard Texans felt same way about him, that's their prerogative or Agholor was back-up plan #2. All along, as they've said, Kevin Johnson was their man & they got him so good job. IF anyone cares to look it up, I brought up KJ's name as viable target for Texans 3 weeks before the draft. I made a strong case for his pick with Jonathan Joseph in final year & based off his tape which looks good to me as actually a younger version of Jonathan, who I really still like by the way. But when it all came around I kept coming back to WR or OLB as top needs. My actual #2 option (after Parker) was Bud Dupree.

Happens I picked for Eagles in our group mock draft so knew their needs, weakness & strengths well but missed on Agholor too. But what was accomplished for me, showed differences in systems, being able to get better personnel/fits for Eagles & vice versa Texans think they got better fits for their system than would apply with Eagles. Funny how two of my favorite all time Texans are now Eagles (DeMeco/Barwin) who didn't fit Texans system anymore, case in point. Both teams also moved up, identified a player(s) & paid price to add players they expect to become starters sooner than later. So its a lot more involved than it appears, which is why I generally only post in College & draft forums because normal, everyday fans don't care about all this fluff, just who Texans have that will play on Sundays.
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It's still possible that you were right and the Eagles were wrong. But hindsight is 20-20 and foresight is ALWAYS shaky, even at best.
 
Marshall said:
It's still possible that you were right and the Eagles were wrong. But hindsight is 20-20 and foresight is ALWAYS shaky, even at best.
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This is so true. Felt strongly that drafting Long was a critical point to at least build my Eagles draft. Pulling guard for Murray & protector for Bradford. But whole point of my posts here in this thread is I missed on Agholor, not as much for Eagles..... but for Texans.

Instead of pairing up with Matthews, could have been DeAndre Hopkins. So many highly graded USC WR's have struggled, not a Trojan fan, generally speaking, they are highly graded prep recruits, entitled, divas, but not Nelson. Just another lesson learned, don't judge a book by its cover.
 
beerlover said:
This is so true. Felt strongly that drafting Long was a critical point to at least build my Eagles draft. Pulling guard for Murray & protector for Bradford. But whole point of my posts here in this thread is I missed on Agholor, not as much for Eagles..... but for Texans.

Instead of pairing up with Matthews, could have been DeAndre Hopkins. So many highly graded USC WR's have struggled, not a Trojan fan, generally speaking, they are highly graded prep recruits, entitled, divas, but not Nelson. Just another lesson learned, don't judge a book by its cover.
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Also in regards to addressing needs (DB & LB) Eagles emerged much stronger & deeper via draft & free agency. Textbook. Question is OL? Mirror that with what Texans did, using 1st rd. selection on CB Kevin Johnson who by all reports shined in mini-camps. Lost Swearinger via free agency but added Rahim Moore (push). Eagles layered secondary with multiple picks, undrafted free agents, deepest crop of rookies I've ever seen, Texans seemed more satisfied/happy with adding one blue chip player to mix, both teams winding up stronger short term, but Eagles more longer term. Wanted Hicks to Texans in 3rd but choose to trade up in 2nd for McKinney. Mississippi State was a joy to watch stifle competition on defense & Ben was one of chief reasons. Turned speed into power, very disruptive in running game, may have hidden pass rush value as well but afraid he can be exploited in secondary. Will see if he can develop this area of game, haven't heard much from camp but definitely another Crennel selection. Much less pressure on Jordan who also has DeMeco coaching him which is exactly the type of player I think he will become. Of course Texans didn't value DeMeco or Connor Barwin enough to hold onto after selecting both early in 2nd round, see how this resolves itself.

Jaelen is working though his hamstring problem & has a lot of work to do, per O'Brien. Can't really hide disappointment. Source of my displeasure as well. I get KJ pick, solid young player who should be starter here..... a long time.... but think they screwed the pooch addressing void left by Andre Johnson, who they got nothing for (maybe supplemental next year) to division rival. Going with committee approach as well as QB position which should translate into someones short shelf life? Hence, Eagle approach the more palatable option, two teams surprisingly close in several respects. For sake of this post/thread - draft positions & covering for free agency losses/gains.
 
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