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Tom Brady extension
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
deucetx
Rookie
To add to it not only was he extended but the guy basically took a pay cut. He got extended for 3 years 27 million dollars which of course will give the Patriots more room to make moves. In '13 and '14 alone he will now be $15 million dollars less against the cap than previously. Guess you can say what you will about the guy but for him it is about winning. He actually took less to help his team.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Please the guy is not being altruistic at all. He got $3 mil to add years to his contract that everyone in the world knows he won't play or won't play at that price. This was pure cap management.
Not only that but the dude could play for free until 2017 and not have to worry about anything financially, I think his wife makes more than him.
TheIronDuke
All Pro
I think even Matt Schaub makes more than him.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Exactly why I was against re-signing Schaub too early. We should have taken a close and hard look at him this off-season, while he became an unrestricted free agent. Kudos to Tom Brady for helping his team create more salary cap space so they can add more good players to their roster. But I don't blame Matt Schaub at all for taking what was offered to him.
This is purely Rick Smith's fault for not understanding how to build a real champion. He over-pays past the market value for several players. And this was after we had already lost several good players last off-season due to salary restrictions: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans (traded), Jacoby Jones, Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel to name a few. I can even name Vonta Leach a few off-season ago. Apparently a pro bowl fullback playing with the current Super Bowl championship team wasn't worth the big bucks either.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...-to-deal-much-smaller-than-schaubs-extension/
Pats sign Brady to deal much smaller than Schaub’s
By: Jay Lee - Ultimate Texans
Sometimes the best quarterback isn’t the one making the most money.
According to a Sports Illustrated report Monday, Tom Brady has agreed to a three-year, $27 million extension with the Patriots. Need some context for that figure? The Texans’ Matt Schaub signed a four-year, $62 million extension last year, and the Jets’ Mark Sanchez received a three-year, $40 million extension.
Brady’s deal gives the Patriots a lot of salary-cap flexibility. His extension, according to the report, includes a $3 million signing bonus and salaries of $7 million in 2015, $8 million in 2016 and $9 million in 2017.
Brady has won three Super Bowls with the Patriots and is a two-time NFL MVP.
This is purely Rick Smith's fault for not understanding how to build a real champion. He over-pays past the market value for several players. And this was after we had already lost several good players last off-season due to salary restrictions: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans (traded), Jacoby Jones, Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel to name a few. I can even name Vonta Leach a few off-season ago. Apparently a pro bowl fullback playing with the current Super Bowl championship team wasn't worth the big bucks either.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...-to-deal-much-smaller-than-schaubs-extension/
Pats sign Brady to deal much smaller than Schaub’s
By: Jay Lee - Ultimate Texans
Sometimes the best quarterback isn’t the one making the most money.
According to a Sports Illustrated report Monday, Tom Brady has agreed to a three-year, $27 million extension with the Patriots. Need some context for that figure? The Texans’ Matt Schaub signed a four-year, $62 million extension last year, and the Jets’ Mark Sanchez received a three-year, $40 million extension.
Brady’s deal gives the Patriots a lot of salary-cap flexibility. His extension, according to the report, includes a $3 million signing bonus and salaries of $7 million in 2015, $8 million in 2016 and $9 million in 2017.
Brady has won three Super Bowls with the Patriots and is a two-time NFL MVP.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Schaub is set to get $7.25 mil and Brady will get $14.75 mil in 2013 (that is actual payments, rather than cap hit).
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Money against the salary cap is all that matters. That's the difference in the Patriots likely winning another Super Bowl or two, by adding the players they need, instead of the Texans winning the Super Bowl. Now that Ray Lewis is retired: I believe the Patriots, Texans and Broncos will be the three favorites in the AFC entering 2013. But the Pats have the clear-cut advantage in terms of cap space.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I read his wife made $45 million last year
badboy
Hall of Fame
Where would Texans be if they waited to this of season and Schaub took another offer? TJ Yates would be the starter. Not saying he could not succeed but no way is he better than Matt. I do not see any Qb there in first to beat out Yates. Texans made a great deal to lock in a playoff QB as no other option. It does not matter one iota what Brady signed for as he was not playing for us. It simply came down to Schaub or a drop way down in quality to replace him. You cannot just assume Matt would accept a deal in the off season. QBs are prime and he is one of the better ones. It is just as likely he would have gone elsewhere if Smith low balled him as remaining for a lesser deal.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I wasn't responding to a salary cap comment but thanks for poking your nose in without reading. Brady's salary cap hit will also be bigger than Schaub's this year. Your source Jay Lee is a fool to have ever typed that headline.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
This!
If we waited, I think it would have cost similar to resign him. If he tested Free Agency, there's a good chance a team overpays him. Then what?
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
hate her...but she deserves it.
Trust me, I have no love for Rick Smith, but I don't think he's the one demonstrating his lack of understanding here.
In all seriousness, what difference does it really make? If the Texans didn't sign Matt last offseason, they damn sure would have signed him this year for about the same money. I'd also venture to guess his cap hit last year was bigger than his cap hit will be in 2013.
Matt did nothing in 2012 to make me believe they would have offered him less money. He was the guy we expecting him to be, his foot did not appear (to me) to bother him & that was the only question the Texans had about him.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Halle....bloody lujah...
Or Halle bloody Berry...pick your poison.badboy said:
:spittake:
We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.
Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one. badboy said:
Meh.
badboy said:
Three teams with rookie QB's were in the play offs this year and ONE of those was IN the Superbowl. QB's aren't a dime a dozen, but if you are one of the few BLESSED enough to play QB you should play every down as if it is the LAST one of your career. Rodgers does that, Brees does that, Brady does that Roethisburger and Manning have made careers of it. Schaub sees 3 and out as "part of the game" and is content with hustling down the field to get into field goal range. Your goal as a QB should NOT be to make your kicker have a record year by making him the team's leading scorer, nor should you settle for it. If that is in fact the case YOU should be on the sidelines with the offense while your defense is on the field telling your receivers about weaknesses you spotted in the secondary on the last series. You should tell your O-line about patterns you've noticed in the defense and tells they give to indicate what package they're running OR how they're responding to audibles. In other words be IMMERSED in that game as the team leader. Schaub isn't that guy. He's a career back up and the past few years (IMHO) have borne that out. As long as we keep him where he is we'll be that group of perpetual bridesmaids who makes it to the 2nd round of the playoffs only to watch SOMEONE ELSE go to the big dance.
neither Kaepernick or Flacco were rookies in 2012.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Thought Kaepernick was a rookie. If he wasn't ESPN and the powers that be sure as hell made it seem like their narrative was "Harbaugh gives rookie nod over veteran...and goes to superbowl."
I do agree with this. I don't necessarily need to see Schaub yelling at his team, chewing people out or whatever, that doesn't say "leader" to me. It says "spoiled brat"
But I'd love to see more of Schaub talking to his receivers on the sideline. Whether they be WRs, TEs, RBs, or FBs. I'd like to know that he & they are talking about what they are seeing & trying to get on the same page. Same way with his OL.
I didn't watch much of the Pro Bowl. But what little bit I did watch, I saw Peyton talking to at least two of the receivers. They might have been talking about Buick endorsements for all I know, but it looked like they were sharing information about what they were seeing & what they were thinking & Peyton helping that receiver be more successful on the field.
I want to see that from my QB on the regular.
Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick in his first season as HC of the 49ers... 2011. Most people didn't expect Alex Smith to finish the season as their starting QB. But they were on a roll, making it to the NFC Championship with very little resistance.
2012 was Harbaugh & Kaepernicks second season with the 49ers.
deucetx
Rookie
We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.
While I'm no Schaub fan I have to disagree on this part. Yates did not beat the Bengals. The Texans did. All Yates did was manage the game. His stat line was 11 for 20 for 159 yards and 1 touchdown. That's it. He did little to nothing other than stay out of the way and don't make mistakes. The win was more about the defense (Got to love Watt's INT) and Foster averaging 6.4 per carry.
And Baltimore...ugh the memories. Yates was freaking horrible and the main reason we lost. The defense held Baltimore including Rice and we out gained them in yards. But Jacoby and Yates turned the ball over four times and Yates completed less than 50% of his passes for a whopping 184 yards. He was horrible that game.
I can say I rather they waited til the end of the year to re-sign Schaub at least when it comes to the length of the deal. But money wise it isn't that big of a hit and falls in place market value wise so don't find it that much of a big deal.
As for Brady...sorry I have to disagree saying it isn't unselfish. Again, not even a Brady fan but doesn't mean I can't respect him for what he did. His wife makes money? That's nice. Still in a sport where many players hold out or seek deals simply because they feel they are top of their position and deserve to be paid as such it's nice to see someone say they'll take a smaller salary so the team can make moves. Like him or hate him he is still argued to be one of the best to play his position all time and easily is worth double that contract and that flimsy 3 million signing. So I can give a man credit where do.
Kevin Walter took a pay cut. At the end of the day, for that year & the life of the contract, he's going to make less money than he would have with the original deal.
I don't think that is the case with Brady. I'll have to look at it. But adding years to bring the cap number down does not equal a pay cut. Now, he is signed through the 2017 season right? I bet he gets another "extension" before that. He'll make more money with this extension over the same time period as he would have without the extension. This is a "win-win" for both parties. The team gets more cap flexibility, Brady gets more money up front.
The numbers for Brady don't add up.
There's no way that his cap hit can be reduced without the Patriots giving him some more bonus money.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
This deal isn't anywhere near as good as the sports pundits are making it out to be. He went from 2 years 30 million left on his deal to 5 years 70.6 million. 57 million is the new money, but because it's an extension and he had existing signing bonus left on his deal, it's still a pricey contract. The salaries are low, but any player will tell you they would rather have signing bonus money rather than future salary. Get that money ASAP so they can't avoid paying you. Anyways, his cap structure is about 3 million more than Schaub's is next year.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8990773/tom-brady-guarantees-nearly-doubled-deal-source
Honestly, the worst thing about this deal is the enormous signing bonus. 6 million a year for the next 5 years is a lot of money that can't be moved, and if he retires or can't play due to injury, he will either eat a roster spot or cost a lot in dead money. Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8990773/tom-brady-guarantees-nearly-doubled-deal-source
Honestly, the worst thing about this deal is the enormous signing bonus. 6 million a year for the next 5 years is a lot of money that can't be moved, and if he retires or can't play due to injury, he will either eat a roster spot or cost a lot in dead money. Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.
First of all... I'm not a believer in one guy wins or loses a game. It's a team game. But using your logic... yes, we're talking about the SAME TJ Yates that lost to the worst team in the league (Colts). The same TJ Yates that led the offense to 18.6 points a game, while Schaub averaged 27.3 a game. The same TJ Yates that led the offense to 322.8 yards/game, while Schaub averaged 396.2 yards/game.
And in regards to your Baltimore statement, I assume that's a joke. I won't even touch it.
I'm actually a fan of TJ, I like his potential... but as of right now, I'm extremely happy we're not going into next season with Yates as the starter.
Hold on a second. Let's re-visit that game (play-by-play link).
TJ had that game at 16-12 with 1:56 left on the game clock.
It was the DEFENSE that gave up a game winning drive in the two minute warning to Dan Orlovsky.
I'm not sure how you can blame TJ Yates for the failure of "one of the best defenses in the league".
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wow, loosen up the band on your dreads. Your Schaub hate is making you delusional.
46% 184 yds 0 TD's 3 INT's 28.8 QBR
Man that sure does look considerably better than:
66.7% 343 yds 2 TD's 1 INT 90.6 QBR
From what I read, Brady got $30 in bonus.
It doesn't matter, since like Dutch said, all $57M are guaranteed.
If Brady gets injured, the Pats are screwed.
Dutch, I read that they rework the contract so that $30M is termed as "bonus".
He will get more cash sooner than otherwise, and is fully guaranteed of the total $57M if he's injured.
Basically, the Pats are able to "defer" $15M in cap hit toward the last 3 years of the contract, at the risk of losing big time financially if Brady gets injured, especially early on.
It doesn't matter, since like Dutch said, all $57M are guaranteed.
If Brady gets injured, the Pats are screwed.
Dutch, I read that they rework the contract so that $30M is termed as "bonus".
He will get more cash sooner than otherwise, and is fully guaranteed of the total $57M if he's injured.
Basically, the Pats are able to "defer" $15M in cap hit toward the last 3 years of the contract, at the risk of losing big time financially if Brady gets injured, especially early on.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
The 30m signing bonus is spread evenly among the 5 years according to everything I have read. Just look at the deadmoney from Overthecap:
http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Tom%20Brady&Position=QB&Team=Patriots
His dead money will hit the cap regardless of what happens to him. If he retires or quits playing due to injury in 2015 he will cost 18m that year due to the guaranteed money acceleration. They could in theory keep him on the roster as inactive/IR and let him sit each of the last year or three in order to prevent that huge hit. In any case, his deal still ties up a lot of money and probably isn't the best for the Patriot's future, unless you think he will still play at a high level when he's 38/39/40.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I agree 100%! Like I said in my post, teams win/lose a game, not one person. I was simply using Dread's own reasoning against him, using team performance to measure a QB's performance.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Bolded. NO, and that is the point. They won't care when he is 40. This deal is made to allow them to be competitive for a few more prime years by surrounding him with more. That's it. Win now while we have one of the greatest QBs around. After that who cares.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I'm pretty sure they saved all of 2 million dollars of cap space in 2013/14 combined from this extension. If someone has something that says otherwise, let me know. An extension like that for 2 million in cap space is pretty dumb if you ask me.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
To those who are disagreeing with me on this one I say this. There are INTANGIBLES involved in playing the position of QB. Certain leadership qualities which a defensive coordinator won't be able to pick apart by studying GAME FILM. I'm of the opinion that Schaub despite being the starter heer for some time still THINKS like the backup he started his being.
A back up's job is:
a. to stop things from imploding on the field and do JUST enough to prevent a loss NOT to get a win.
b. be that guy who can come in at a moment's notice and get "the big win" when the starter is banged up.
c. Try to shine like a diamond for every play he gets because he KNOWS that as #2 he has to PROVE himself as he's in the other guy's shadow.
That was Matt Schaub when he was Dog Boy's back up in Atlanta and MAYBE his first year here. I'm obviousy not seeing the same guy YOU guys are seeing. The guy I'm seeing is:
a. throwing critical interceptions at the WORST possible time
b. Started a game on the opponent's 16 YARD LINE and was CONTENT to settle for a field goal.
c. stating on sports radio "You march down the field...you get in field goal range, you settle for the 3. You get ready for the next one."
Translation he's a "Good enough" QB. Good enough might get you an 11-1 season. It might get you lots of players in the pro bowl, but at the end of the day "good enough" get's you to the status of "One and done" and whipping boy to the A-hole pundits who treat your team like a glorified farm team for other NFL teams who want to look for prospects who can help THEM win a Lombardi.
A back up's job is:
a. to stop things from imploding on the field and do JUST enough to prevent a loss NOT to get a win.
b. be that guy who can come in at a moment's notice and get "the big win" when the starter is banged up.
c. Try to shine like a diamond for every play he gets because he KNOWS that as #2 he has to PROVE himself as he's in the other guy's shadow.
That was Matt Schaub when he was Dog Boy's back up in Atlanta and MAYBE his first year here. I'm obviousy not seeing the same guy YOU guys are seeing. The guy I'm seeing is:
a. throwing critical interceptions at the WORST possible time
b. Started a game on the opponent's 16 YARD LINE and was CONTENT to settle for a field goal.
c. stating on sports radio "You march down the field...you get in field goal range, you settle for the 3. You get ready for the next one."
Translation he's a "Good enough" QB. Good enough might get you an 11-1 season. It might get you lots of players in the pro bowl, but at the end of the day "good enough" get's you to the status of "One and done" and whipping boy to the A-hole pundits who treat your team like a glorified farm team for other NFL teams who want to look for prospects who can help THEM win a Lombardi.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.
If Schaub is still our QB I can guarantee we'll act like it.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Put the AVERAGE Rookie QB who has ZERO trigger time in a playoff ROAD game against a VETERAN defense with one of the BEST safties in the League (Ed Reed) and I'll wager they wouldn't look half as good. Schaub is "Good" but lacks that fire that would make him GREAT. Does he deserve to be in the NFL? Yes? Should he remain a starter? Meh.
Jus want to add that the $30M bonus is recorded in the book as spreading out over 5 years for cap designation purpose only.The 30m signing bonus is spread evenly among the 5 years according to everything I have read. Just look at the deadmoney from Overthecap:
http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Tom%20Brady&Position=QB&Team=Patriots
His dead money will hit the cap regardless of what happens to him. If he retires or quits playing due to injury in 2015 he will cost 18m that year due to the guaranteed money acceleration. They could in theory keep him on the roster as inactive/IR and let him sit each of the last year or three in order to prevent that huge hit. In any case, his deal still ties up a lot of money and probably isn't the best for the Patriot's future, unless you think he will still play at a high level when he's 38/39/40.
By looking at Dutch's numbers above and the numbers at spotrac, the $27M (the value of the 3 year extension is to paid out at 1, 2, 7, 8, and 9 in the form of base salary for each of the 5 years from 2013-15.
Brady pockets $30M sometimes shortly after he signs this extension.
Basically, he's receiving his pay for 2013-14 "right now" before OTA even starts.
He can put this money in the bank to draw interest or invest it in a mutual fund however he pleases.
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?
Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.
Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.
Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.
Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.
I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Perhaps we need to reexamine our definition of pedestrian. Schaub and Peyton are 2.2 yards apart on yards per game. Manning throws more TD's (% of throws). Schaub throws less INT's (% of throws) and for a higher average yards per attempt (yeah that one kind of surprised me too).
I AM NOT SAYING SCHAUB IS PEYTON SO NOBODY BRING THAT TIRED SCHTICK.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Peter King had a number much larger than that the other day but I believe he was wrong. This is what I read recently
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/reissmailbagweek0226/how-pats-spend-all-cash
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...nd-patriots-agree-3-year-27-million-extension
I use it as a descriptive term for lackluster and average.
pedestrian - Lacking inspiration or excitement; dull
I know you were not trying to compare QBs. However, just for fun of explaining the pedestrian tag as defined above:
Peyton Manning = 38 fourth quarter comebacks, 49 game-winning drives (in 244 RS starts)
Matt Schaub = 9 fourth quarter comebacks, 12 game-winning drives (in 82 RS starts)
And, for fun...
TJ Yates = 1 fourth quarter comeback, 2 game-winning drives (in 5 RS starts)
Good points. However, I think you'd have to have a pretty desperate team, or an arrogant HC, or a moron, or a mixture of the three to trade two seconds for Yates & signing him to a starting QBs contract sight unseen.
Tj is right where he needs to be. Backing up Matt Schaub. If he gets another opportunity to play in the regular season, it's up to Tj to win the job.
All I want is the second coming of Romo. & I'm serious as a heart attack.
handswarmer
Rookie
Seriously? TJ has just as many playoff wins as Romo.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
From what I read, Brady was scheduled to make 30 million over the next two years on his old deal. I haven't seen anything that says he was supposed to make ~43 million in those two years, which is how you would get the huge savings. Unfortunately, all of my go to sites for contract info have already updated his contract, so I'm not sure what he was supposed to make. That's really the issue here, was he really scheduled to make 22 million next year? Something isn't adding up.
Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games. They either lead the team to be in a position to win or lose. Romo gives that Dallas team a chance every game, regardless who else is on that team.
handswarmer
Rookie
Right- they added Three million in Salary (1 mill in 13 and 2 in 14) but converted hos 13 and 14 salaray to a $30 mill SB and then guaranteed the last 3 yrs at 9 mill each (27 mill)
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Edit: I see it now.
Brady restructured his salary in 2012 to signing bonus and that added to the cap hit to 2013 and 2014. His original deal was going to be:
2013: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus
2014: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus
Total of 43.6 million over two years.
Instead, they now have him as:
2013: 1 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 8 million)
2014: 2 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 7 million)
Total of 28.6 over two years. A savings of 15 million in cap space.
And after 2014 the only signing bonus is the 6m a year from the restructure.
Now it all makes sense!