Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
The Baylor Football Scandal Takes a More Ominous Turn
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
bah007
Hall of Fame
And this kind of stuff is why the NCAA should have dropped the hammer on Penn St. Send the message right up front that this kind of stuff will not be tolerated.
If you know something you have an obligation to report it. If you try to hide information to protect your program at the expense of other people's lives then the NCAA should be carpet bombing that athletic department.
But nothing will happen here. There's schools out there that run their practices 15 min longer than allowed or sneak an extra meal to a player in the cafeteria and by God that crap needs to be put to a stop first. There is no time to waste resources on second rate stuff like this...
If you know something you have an obligation to report it. If you try to hide information to protect your program at the expense of other people's lives then the NCAA should be carpet bombing that athletic department.
But nothing will happen here. There's schools out there that run their practices 15 min longer than allowed or sneak an extra meal to a player in the cafeteria and by God that crap needs to be put to a stop first. There is no time to waste resources on second rate stuff like this...
AS bad as this is and yes Baylor should face the Death Penalty due to administration cover up/lack of institutional control, it still isn't as bad as what went on at Pennis St.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
The athletic departments at Baylor and Penn State should both be wiped off the face of the Earth. Not only in response to their absolutely despicable actions and attempted cover-ups but also as a warning to any other AD that thinks to do the same.
This is the NCAA we're talking about though so.........give them a bowl ban and take away some scholarships. That will put a stop to it.
This is the NCAA we're talking about though so.........give them a bowl ban and take away some scholarships. That will put a stop to it.
While Penn State was "too big and too much of College football tradition" to get the death penalty, Baylor is certainly not. For the time being, Baylor would probably be well advised to rid those in power and make all efforts in helping the victims and putting the football team's interest to the side.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
NCAA should destroy this program.
Watch Ole Miss get a harsher penalty for paying a player's family's light bill.
Watch Ole Miss get a harsher penalty for paying a player's family's light bill.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Baylor's never gonna let go of Briles unless the NCAA takes action. They're finally sustainably relevant for the first time in their grubby football history
I guess Ken Starr should have been as vigorous on the campus scandal as he was with former president Clinton.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
They don't. Their hand was forced. Apparently the Pepper-Hamilton report is going public and it is extremely damning to Briles. If they had been able to keep it sealed then he would still be the coach.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Paying players isn't in the same stratosphere as what Baylor/PSU have done.....but let's not pretend like all Ole Miss is doing is paying a light bill. They are one of the shadiest teams in the country when it comes to recruiting.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Couldn't happen to a bigger asshole. **** that guy and the horse he rode in on.
Heath Shuler
SPEED KILLS
Wow the Fat Man @ the chronic will be inconsolable. Somebody warn the folks @ Golden Corral
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
PSU and Baylor are 1000X worse than Ole Miss, USC, the U, or SMU, but the NCAA doesn't see it that way. It is all about protecting their money-maker. The Trojans got hit worse than PSU for paying Reggie.
All recruiting is sleazy and shady. Had a former teammate get mainlined drugs and hookers on his recruiting trip to Harvard.
The NCAA only cares about protecting their product.
My opinion...
Unless it was Art Briles' responsibility to find & employ this Title IX coordinator, I think firing Art Briles is uncalled for. He's being made the scapegoat.
If I'm Art Briles, I'd do everything in my power to stay out of conflicts... regardless how benign or violent.... between players & their girlfriends. I'd tell the girl she needs to talk to the Title IX coordinator, or the AD, & the police. I would not feel obligated to investigate & I would not discipline my player because his ex is upset with him. & that's all Art Briles should know at that point. Unless someone brought him the police's investigation notes.
Seems like there are several incidents where they use the words "widely reported" in each case, once I see it in the papers, or hear about an allegation, I'd push it up the chain with an eMail recommending Baylor investigates, recommending Baylor hire the Title IX coordinator.
I'm a football coach. I hold my players accountable for their contributions to the football team. If these incidents keep them from practice, or from games, or two of my players get into a fight over some off the field stuff... I'll address that. But if Baylor is covering stuff up, if Waco police is covering stuff up.... that's not on me.
I'd have all this documented, so when I'm made the scapegoat & I'm looking for another job, I'd be able to say with a straight face, "I tried to do what I felt was right. Maybe I should have been more adamant in following up. But as long as you have a mature system to investigate & sanction players for this kind of stuff, we'll be just fine & we'll win a lot of games."
(all quotes from the article in the OP)
Unless it was Art Briles' responsibility to find & employ this Title IX coordinator, I think firing Art Briles is uncalled for. He's being made the scapegoat.
If I'm Art Briles, I'd do everything in my power to stay out of conflicts... regardless how benign or violent.... between players & their girlfriends. I'd tell the girl she needs to talk to the Title IX coordinator, or the AD, & the police. I would not feel obligated to investigate & I would not discipline my player because his ex is upset with him. & that's all Art Briles should know at that point. Unless someone brought him the police's investigation notes.
Seems like there are several incidents where they use the words "widely reported" in each case, once I see it in the papers, or hear about an allegation, I'd push it up the chain with an eMail recommending Baylor investigates, recommending Baylor hire the Title IX coordinator.
I'm a football coach. I hold my players accountable for their contributions to the football team. If these incidents keep them from practice, or from games, or two of my players get into a fight over some off the field stuff... I'll address that. But if Baylor is covering stuff up, if Waco police is covering stuff up.... that's not on me.
I'd have all this documented, so when I'm made the scapegoat & I'm looking for another job, I'd be able to say with a straight face, "I tried to do what I felt was right. Maybe I should have been more adamant in following up. But as long as you have a mature system to investigate & sanction players for this kind of stuff, we'll be just fine & we'll win a lot of games."
(all quotes from the article in the OP)
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
spoke too soon
bah007
Hall of Fame
This.
The only reason this is happening is because that report is going to be made public.
bah007
Hall of Fame
USC actually didn't even pay Bush. An agent paid him to secure his services for when he decided to go pro. The USC RB coach knew about this and kept it to himself instead of reporting it up the chain of command. Carroll didn't even know about it.
Bush goes pro and signs with a different agent. The agent he screwed over rats him out and USC gets the hammer dropped on them.
So Bush got paid by someone that wasn't even affiliated with the school. That case is a perfect example of where the NCAA stands.
bah007
Hall of Fame
When the report comes out you will see why Briles was fired. The excerpts that I've already seen make it clear as day that he knew exactly what was going on and made no effort to stop it. He didn't even turn a blind eye to it, which would be disgusting enough, he actively tried to help his players stay eligible and even let some play in games after he knew that they had been accused of rape.
I'm not saying that he has to be a detective, but ignorance isn't even an excuse anyway. He knows what his players are up to. And it's his job to police them. He doesn't know every detail of their personal lives, but I guarantee that he knows who they hang out with and what they do for fun. The players spend more time with the football team than with any other group of people on campus. Those coaches know what kind of person each kid is. Some misbehave but they aren't bad people, just immature knuckleheads. Some are bad people. If he sees a certain pattern of behavior it is not only in the best interest of the team, but also the player, that he do everything that he can to help that kid get on the right path. If something terrible like this happens one time you just to have to admit the kid was bad and you didn't see it. Learn from it and move on. If it happens this many times? The coach doesn't care.
Last edited:
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Not only that but the NCAA asked USC to eat the punishment in the name of PR and SC told them to f' off. NCAA then dropped an absolute hammer on them, not because of what they did/didn't do, but because they had the nerve to stand up to them.
Freaking Penn State has had their sanctions reduced but USC never did. That lets you know where they stand. Worst organization on the planet.
I'm going to have to read the report. But at a high level I look at this as similar to academic eligibility. It is not Briles' responsibility to say whether a player is eligible or not. They either pass, or they don't & Briles doesn't go check to make sure his players are eligible. Someone else had that responsibility & they inform Briles when there is an issue. They tell him when someone is ineligible.
There should be someone else who looks into these allegations & they should tell Briles when there is more than just allegations & when it is inappropriate for these criminals to play. When they shouldn't be on the team.
That person shouldn't report to Briles. Briles should have no say in who should be investigated, or how thorough that person is not investigated.
If that person is not there, that should be on the AD, who still has a job so far.
But yes, there's a line Art Briles could have crossed. I'm just saying I've yet to see anything suggesting he crossed where I think the line should be.
I'm sure many of you are in supervision, or have been, or maybe you employ several people. You know you can't act on accusations. You can report what you know to the right people & let them determine what can be proven, what can't, & what actions you can take.
Well you can't act on accusations, but when there is a definite pattern the supervisor better take some sort of action past slaps on the wrist. Or face getting canned/disciplinary action. The people you lead are a direct reflection of you. Besides we're talking felony type stuff here not under age drinking. If Briles knew about it, and saw that no one else was taking appropriate action, he should have. That's what leaders do. It was well within his power to kick those jerks off the team, or even suspend them. The whole it wasn't my responsibility argument is a chickenshit argument. That trickles down all the way through the organization from other coaches to players to the local police who knew wtf was happening and turned a blind eye. Don't be fooled, a lot of the power players in the Waco area are Baylor alums, you think that they're not petty enough to put university prestige over actual human beings? Scumbags, regardless of social status and education levels all of them who knew and did nothing.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Because of the corruption in the university and police department it is unlikely that we will ever know how many victims there were or how many criminals played football at Baylor.
Briles had accepted at least three transfers that had a history of sexual assault that all went on to commit additional sexual crimes at Baylor without being penalized in any way.
Art Briles cares more about winning football games than he does about anything else in the world. His players picked up on that and the ones that felt inclined acted accordingly.
Briles had accepted at least three transfers that had a history of sexual assault that all went on to commit additional sexual crimes at Baylor without being penalized in any way.
Art Briles cares more about winning football games than he does about anything else in the world. His players picked up on that and the ones that felt inclined acted accordingly.
I find it surprising that after Baylor suffered the scandal with a former basketball coach and team members that they more than many others would do everything humanly possible to insure that character and discipline issues would not be tolerated. Outside of sports Baylor has a good reputation and why would they allow it to be tarnished because of sports programs is quite surprising.
Like I said, I'll have to read the report. What's been published so far, & I'm speaking specifically of the link in the OP, I'm not seeing it.
If I were a manager of Target in Houston, & I hired two people with excellent resumes, outstanding interviewing skills, a second to none work ethic, & elite level job performance, I don't really care that they have prior allegations of sexual assault.
If there are other allegations outside of target, I'd let the local authorities handle it. & I'm not going to call the local PD to make sure it's being investigated.
If another employee complained of inappropriate behavior I'm going to tell that employee the correct procedure for reporting such a claim. I will report the incident myself through the proper channels. I'll cooperate with any of investigation they may have.
If there continue to be more & more allegations I'll continue to report them. I will be curious how said employee can continue to perform at a high level, may even put in for a raise or two, but be such a degenerate outside of work.
Yes... There are some extenuating circumstances. If I felt he couldn't be trusted to have women working for him, I'd never back him for a promotion. If I didn't think I could trust him to be in a closed room with a woman, I'll never leave him alone with a woman. I'll refrain from giving him exemplary reviews, I'd maybe even try to get him to quit.
But if Target's investigations turn up nothing, or if Target refuses to investigate, short of walking in on him assaulting another individual... I don't know that I'd want to fire such a good employee.
Briles: Son, I'm going to have to suspend you from the next two games.
Kid: But why coach, my grades are good. I didn't break any of your rules, I've been early to every meeting, I even stayed after practice to help the freshmen work on their game.
Briles: yeah well, Erika claims you raped her.
Kid: I don't know an Erika, I've never raped anyone.
Briles: That may be true, but it seems you have two prior allegations back in Tennessee.
Kid: What? No... That was my baby mama, mad at me cuz I can't pay child support since I'm not allowed to work, & some other girl who got mad cuz I thought we were just hooking up.
Briles: Look.. I'm not an investigator. I have to cover my ass here. My boss will keep his job & I'll be out if I don't act on this allegation.
You do realize it was a pattern for more then just a couple of his players right? There were multiple accusations and some convictions.
If Target guy was the most badass employee ever, but raped or sexually assaulted anybody I'd drop that pos like a bad habit. I'll find another employee and be at peace with my conscience. People come in all flavors, exemplery work ethic and awesome skills don't guarantee they aren't a degenerate. That's fairly short sighted to think one cancels out the other, if that's what you meant?
You are correct in that accusations by females with a bone to pick happen, not in the case of Baylor though.
No, I did not mean one canceled out the other.
From what I understand, the issue here is that Baylor did little to investigate. I understand people being upset that Art Briles did not discipline his players, but it boils down to disciplining players for allegations. In the Target metaphor, you're opening yourself (Target) up to wrongful termination lawsuits if there were no criminal charges, convictions, or any kind of internal investigation. Same thing with Briles, I don't understand how or why he was supposed to discipline his players with nothing but allegations (I also said I need to read the reports to see if there was anything more). If Briles was obstructing these investigations, I get it. But what I've read so far is that Baylor, not Briles, drug their feet in bringing in a Title IX coordinator.
I know it sounds like burying your head in the sand. & to a point, I'm sure there was some of that going on. But this issue seems like it's bigger than Art Briles. Bigger than Baylor even. Like the whole city of Waco. The Chief of Police & the Mayor should be called to the carpet as much as Art Briles.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
My disagreement with you on this whole thing is that given the current environment in major college football (particularly at those institutions without a long history of winning), Baylor would be much more likely to rationalize Briles actions, and protect him if there was any possible way they could do it than they would be to sacrifice him. I would be more likely to strongly strongly suspect guilt if they hadn't terminated him then I am to suspect innocence (or even ignorance) when they did. If they're going to jettison not guilty or un-involved folks to take the heat off, the most successful football coach in the history of the school (relative to his time there) wouldn't be on that list.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Well there goes that little stint where Baylor was a good football team. Now it's back to being a doormat most likely.
That's my question. Which of his actions need to be rationalized? Strong arming the Waco Police into turning a blind eye? Obstructing Baylor from hiring a Title IX coordinator? Leaving a dead horse's head in the bed of one of the "alleged" victims?
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Not necessarily but most likely. Briles was that football team, and the way they're about to hemorrhage talent (especially if the NCAA imposes a bowl ban or scholarship reduction) will probably take them back to their old Big-12 punching bag days
Looks like Ole Miss are letting Baylor run interference whilst they to try and get out in front of their own problems by flicking themselves on the wrist ...
Ole Miss responds to NCAA allegations, self-imposes sanctions
Whew, good to know all is kosher now in Oxford ...
Ole Miss responds to NCAA allegations, self-imposes sanctions
Whew, good to know all is kosher now in Oxford ...
Showtime100
Got JJ?
I agree with what's been said about the NCAA doing one thing for a traditional power and another for the others.
I remember Jim Wacker, HC of TCU finding out some of his players were on a payroll. Not the least of which was RB Kenneth Davis, a Heisman favorite at the time. Wacker went straight to the NCAA and told them all he'd just found out. The NCAA responded with major sanctions on TCU. So bad that many Horned Frogs will never forgive the NCAA for their treatment of a school that ratted on themselves.
If TCU were Penn State, I wonder if there would have been any sanctions at all.
I remember Jim Wacker, HC of TCU finding out some of his players were on a payroll. Not the least of which was RB Kenneth Davis, a Heisman favorite at the time. Wacker went straight to the NCAA and told them all he'd just found out. The NCAA responded with major sanctions on TCU. So bad that many Horned Frogs will never forgive the NCAA for their treatment of a school that ratted on themselves.
If TCU were Penn State, I wonder if there would have been any sanctions at all.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Well he did let two separate players play in games after they had already been indicted for rape, and one of those players had been accused by six different women.
Indicted isn't the same as guilty. I realize that. But if it's going to trial, especially on multiple counts of the same crime, maybe football should take a back seat at that point.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not specific to Baylor or even college, why should ANY team be punishing prior to a plea/conviction? The whole practice seems wrong.
bah007
Hall of Fame
In hindsight, it just speaks to the lack of discipline in the program. I think you have to look at things like that on a case by case basis. I'm sure there are numerous examples where I wouldn't agree with a player being penalized before he had been found guilty. The Tevin Elliott case really just stands out to me. I can't imagine letting that guy play on my team with the information that Briles had to have had.
Briles had no control over his players and seemingly didn't even care to have anyone keep an eye on them as they were running rampant all over campus. And the school and police department didn't care either, as long as Baylor won football games. I'm not going to lay this all on Briles' feet. He's not the only one that should go down.
As a coach, I just can't look at this from any other perspective than to say that he should have known. Maybe I'm too biased. There is no excuse for this kind of stuff to go down in his program at this scale and he didn't know about it. So he's basically being fired for lack of control over his program. Maybe he was totally ignorant about everything. I seriously doubt that. In fact, I'd say that would be impossible. But say that he is. That doesn't alleviate him from any wrongdoing. He either knew some of this stuff and didn't even care, or he didn't care about anything at all except winning football games.
He brought known scumbags into his program to try to help win football games. A lot of these guys had a history before they even got to Baylor, and Briles was fully aware of that history. When he brings in known scumbags and then they go on to do scumbag things, the guy that brought them in should be held accountable, especially when we are talking about it happening multiple times.
It seems much bigger then Briles. It seems systemic past the university and into the local government. I'm surprised the Waco pd hasn't been investigated yet.
Blake
MMQB
More details would be nice. The report is very vague IMO. From the report I still dont know specifically what Briles did. We can make the assumption that since he was HC he is leading this. But nothing says Briles did this, Briles did that. In fact his name isnt even stated in the report.
I am not saying he didnt deserve to be fired, just that even after the report, I dont have a clear idea of what he actually did or didnt do.
Obviously there's a lot of information out there that you & I haven't seen. On the perfect gentlemen this morning they were talking as if BrIles got off easy for covering up so many instances.
Briles... covering... up.... those were their words. Surely they aren't equating failure to act on circumstantial evidence with covering up multiple assaults.
Here's an ominous turn Baylor can choke on ...
Seven Baylor recruits request release from letters of intent
Seven Baylor recruits request release from letters of intent