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Texans RBs.... Mack, Pierce, Ogunbowale

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If the lb's were such a bright spot, why was the defense #31 against the run? And terrible against the TE's and RB's in the passing game?
Exactly 31st against the run and 32nd running the ball. Not to mention the LBs struggled to cover the TE's and RB's.

The theme of this draft was to fix the ol and add speed to the defense. Mission accomplished, they also looked to give Mills a slot guy and took a flier on a RB
If the RB doesn't work out then Lovie can draft a bellcow RB in a better RB class next year.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
In several games the offense couldn’t get past the 50 yard line. Early on the offense had way too many 3 and outs.
Would a RB help this? Gotta fix the ol which they attempted to do. Hopefully Pierce is the guy and they pick either Bijan high or Charbonnet a little lower to compliment Pierce.

I'm glad Lovie focused on adding badly needed speed to the defense this yr and will look at adding a RB/TE in next yrs draft, where those positions are much stronger than this yrs draft. This is called forward thinking. Fans don't recognize it because it's never been done by the Texans org. This has always been a 2-3 yr rebuild and people who wanted a RB in last yrs draft want to win now and that ain't happening.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Ok...What RB would you have wanted them to get after drafting Green?
Again, my argument is against the reasoning of the post I originally quoted. It is not my position that I wanted a RB other than Pearce
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
In several games the offense couldn’t get past the 50 yard line. Early on the offense had way too many 3 and outs.
It's always somebody elses fault. Not saying that doesn't play a part, but when you're bottom of the barrel defensively it's a lot more than blaming it on the offense sucking.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
mid that evidence of poor LBs or are you just parroting?
I'm just stating facts. You may not like them. But they are what they are.

I'm glad they've added speed to the defense, it's been needed for years. I also think Pierce can be an effective part of a tandem at RB. Of course I didn't really think any RB in that draft was worth a high pick. Next year is a different story. How's that for parroting instead of some who post crap they don't even believe just to be argumentative.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm just stating facts. You may not like them. But they are what they are.
I hadn't stated one way or the other. I'm asking if that's an original thought, or are you just grabbing onto someone else's argument. (I don't have a problem with the argument).

Just asking, are you steelbtexan saying the Texans were 31st against the run because of their LBs?
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
I think that we have one chance to have a run game and that's Pearce. If he doesn't work out our run game is probably FUBAR
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Ok...What RB would you have wanted them to get after drafting Green? I know a lot of people wanted Breece Hall, and I liked him too, but Pierce was my #1 RB want, and I knew we could get him for much cheaper. Pierce is a better fit for our team right now. Some think Mack will be better than everyone is expecting, so I think we are good at RB for now. I would still keep an eye out for RB's released during training camp.

We won't know if Green, Cann, and Warhop are going to be the answer for our Oline until we see how the Oline plays. We don't know if Tunsil will play to the end of the play in the run game. It's still too early to know if our Oline is fixed or not. Drafting a RB high, until we know our Oline won't get them killed, is not in my priority list.
Sometimes special running backs can make the oline look better than what it is. I would've taken 2 running backs and there were several availible 3-5 rd. The Arizona state kid,Zamir White, to name a few. LSU also had a low use speed back, something the Texans don't have. I like Pierce
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So you're saying Lovie drafted a CB, a safety, & a smallish LB to improve the 31st run defense?
Yes, speed kills and those guys can all run. It helps against the run when a cb can line up 1-1 against a wr, also a S that can play in the box or depp also helps against the run. Harris was very good against the run. Apparently you didn't watch much Alabama football. Go back and watch Harris in the 2 games against Georgia.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Yes, speed kills and those guys can all run. It helps against the run when a cb can line up 1-1 against a wr, also a S that can play in the box or depp also helps against the run. Harris was very good against the run. Apparently you didn't watch much Alabama football. Go back and watch Harris in the 2 games against Georgia.
You can have all the speed in the world but if those hogs up front are not doing their jobs. Then that speed will not work. Another thing is, if the defense is on the field more than like, um let’s say 70-75 % of that particular game. Well, then that defense will get tired no matter how much speed they have. The opposing team will more likely run it down their throats. I remember when we played the Titans ( I’m thinking 2-3 years ago). Our defense held Henry in check in the first half. The offense came out very flat and couldn’t generate any sustainable drives. The defense started getting gashed in the running game and Henry ended running for more than 150 yards in that half.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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You can have all the speed in the world but if those hogs up front are not doing their jobs. Then that speed will not work. Another thing is, if the defense is on the field more than like, um let’s say 70-75 % of that particular game. Well, then that defense will get tired no matter how much speed they have. The opposing team will more likely run it down their throats. I remember when we played the Titans ( I’m thinking 2-3 years ago). Our defense held Henry in check in the first half. The offense was came out very flat and could generate any sustainable drives. The defense started getting gashed in the running game and Henry ended running for more than 150 yards in that half.
Agreed

But if you have a slow back 7 you're gonna get burned by the pass and not be able to get to your run fits.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Agreed

But if you have a slow back 7 you're gonna get burned by the pass and not be able to get to your run fits.
You’ll get hit over the top when you have to stack the box to stop the run. But I agree.

I’m hoping we have the luxury of a stout running game here very soon. Hopefully we don’t under use Pierce like Florida did. If Mack stays healthy, that would be a nice one two punch. Then toss in Burkhead on special downs.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Why spend a high pick on a position with fast flameouts in most cases, and with a team that does not have a playoff roster. RB's are a dime a dozen.

I wouldn't spend a #1 on a RB under any circumstances in the modern era we are in now. But in 23 or 24, we'll likely invest a #2 or #3 on a guy they feel can be a bellcow back for 3-4 years. You burn em, toss em, and get another one. You don't re-sign em. You trade/release them after their rookie deal is up with very rare exceptions.

That's how you treat the RB in this era of football.
2023 I would love to get Robinson. Kid has it all, and I think could be a 3 down RB for awhile. It's rare that a kid has skills like his. True, unless everything else is improving...unlikely. Meaning we can't use that 1st round pick on a RB. But, with 2 like we have maybe we should
 

vtech9

Veteran
If I have one negative from Pierce's college career, it would be that sometimes he chooses the wrong path, Like here (from 441 seconds to 452 seconds). If he would have followed his left guard's block, and then followed behind his RT, he could have had a BIG gain. The cutback behind the LG would have put him in perfect position to cut back behind the RT, which would have opened up the whole right side of the field. Now, he still had a positive gain on this play, but it could have been a lot more.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
If I have one negative from Pierce's college career, it would be that sometimes he chooses the wrong path, Like here (from 441 seconds to 452 seconds). If he would have followed his left guard's block, and then followed behind his RT, he could have had a BIG gain. The cutback behind the LG would have put him in perfect position to cut back behind the RT, which would have opened up the whole right side of the field. Now, he still had a positive gain on this play, but it could have been a lot more.
Except for the defender that had beaten the RG badly
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
If I have one negative from Pierce's college career, it would be that sometimes he chooses the wrong path, Like here (from 441 seconds to 452 seconds). If he would have followed his left guard's block, and then followed behind his RT, he could have had a BIG gain. The cutback behind the LG would have put him in perfect position to cut back behind the RT, which would have opened up the whole right side of the field. Now, he still had a positive gain on this play, but it could have been a lot more.
We can always say what he should’ve done or what we would’ve done. But in live action, it’s always totally different.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Agreed, but Bijan is special. A threat to score every time he touches the ball.
Indeed. The more I see on him and film, I can't think of a reason not to grab him. He will go top 10 no question, barring injury or anything off field. And if we look much improved in the other areas...snag him. QB will be 2 of the top 10, leaving at most (if more QBs are taken) 8 teams. I don’t think we won't have a top 15 pick so maybe a say 15 and a 3rd to get him at worst. For a RB that could be a bell cow for 10+ years if he stays healthy. And we still will have another 1st round pick! It's a win/win.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Been reading reports about Nico, Davis, Brevin, even saw one about Nelson.
All 3 have been playing great. Nelson, to a lesser extent but still very good. Nico is starting to show true talent in every aspect of his position. So much so that many talking heads who have seen it (podcast host and beat reporters) are saying he could beat out Cooks this year at some point as WR 1. That's high praise. Lovie and Nick Caserio are both also saying very good things about his play.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Indeed. The more I see on him and film, I can't think of a reason not to grab him. He will go top 10 no question, barring injury or anything off field. And if we look much improved in the other areas...snag him. QB will be 2 of the top 10, leaving at most (if more QBs are taken) 8 teams. I don’t think we won't have a top 15 pick so maybe a say 15 and a 3rd to get him at worst. For a RB that could be a bell cow for 10+ years if he stays healthy. And we still will have another 1st round pick! It's a win/win.
Depends on who else is available... much too early to say now
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
All 3 have been playing great. Nelson, to a lesser extent but still very good. Nico is starting to show true talent in every aspect of his position. So much so that many talking heads who have seen it (podcast host and beat reporters) are saying he could beat out Cooks this year at some point as WR 1. That's high praise. Lovie and Nick Caserio are both also saying very good things about his play.
I'm happy Nico has improved and I expected him to improve.


Cooks will still be WR1.
 

vtech9

Veteran
Indeed. The more I see on him and film, I can't think of a reason not to grab him. He will go top 10 no question, barring injury or anything off field. And if we look much improved in the other areas...snag him. QB will be 2 of the top 10, leaving at most (if more QBs are taken) 8 teams. I don’t think we won't have a top 15 pick so maybe a say 15 and a 3rd to get him at worst. For a RB that could be a bell cow for 10+ years if he stays healthy. And we still will have another 1st round pick! It's a win/win.
Honestly, there is no way I would spend a top 1st round pick on a RB. Especially when we need so many other things. I think Tunsil is going to walk after this season, so we will need to find a new LT. We'll probably need another Guard and another Center. Cann won't be here long, and Britt doesn't have much longer to go either.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Honestly, there is no way I would spend a top 1st round pick on a RB. Especially when we need so many other things. I think Tunsil is going to walk after this season, so we will need to find a new LT. We'll probably need another Guard and another Center. Cann won't be here long, and Britt doesn't have much longer to go either.
Why do you think Tunsil is going to walk? Don't believe what you're being sold. A center shouldn't be picked in the 1st rd. Pick Stromberg in the 2nd if you need a center.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Honestly, there is no way I would spend a top 1st round pick on a RB. Especially when we need so many other things. I think Tunsil is going to walk after this season, so we will need to find a new LT. We'll probably need another Guard and another Center. Cann won't be here long, and Britt doesn't have much longer to go either.
Hopefully pearce, Nico Collins, Kenyon Green, Stingley, Harris and Pitre are great. Hard for me to pass up on a player like Will Anderson who has been compared to Von Miller and Khalil Mack.
If reset Brissett is the 17 game starter for Cleveland, I think that pick will be much higher than some are thinking. I agree that we need a center and Right Guard but hopefully Morrissey is the guy at Center. I think it's possible that we could get Jarrett Patterson at 65.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Even if he walked we have a 2nd 1st so take a LT with that pick or top of the 2nd round.
just info: in 2023 Tunsil cap hit is $35 m. His base for another team only $18.5. Unfortunately unless Charlie heck becomes a solid left tackle there is no other option at left tackle. I would look at Paris Johnson if he were to slide to our second round one [2023] but I doubt that. I expected Caserio to let Tunsil play out then get LT in 2024. Right tackle also for that matter.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
just info: in 2023 Tunsil cap hit is $35 m. His base for another team only $18.5. Unfortunately unless Charlie heck becomes a solid left tackle there is no other option at left tackle. I would look at Paris Johnson if he were to slide to our second round one [2023] but I doubt that. I expected Caserio to let Tunsil play out then get LT in 2024. Right tackle also for that matter.
That's true, and 35mil for a run blocker, not a great pass blocker is steep. But, snag abLT in the 1st 2 rounds and then Robinson as our other 1st...if we draft early enough to get him. He is going to be a Pro Bowl RB and it would help Mills or any QB. He can run inside or outside, falls forward, great vision and speed and has the ability to line up as a slot with very good hands. We would be dumb not to try to land him...even if we can't
 

vtech9

Veteran
Why do you think Tunsil is going to walk? Don't believe what you're being sold. A center shouldn't be picked in the 1st rd. Pick Stromberg in the 2nd if you need a center.
I don't think he's happy here, and I expect him to either ask for a trade, or to be released.

Center is just one of the positions we need to replace. Even if Kenyon Green turns out to be a stud, and long-time starter at RG, we still need to find another starter at LG. You've also said that you thought Howard would be gone after this season, and if that's the case, we need another Starting RT. All of those are more important than a RB to me. Without an OLine, that RB ain't going anywhere.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I don't think he's happy here, and I expect him to either ask for a trade, or to be released.

Center is just one of the positions we need to replace. Even if Kenyon Green turns out to be a stud, and long-time starter at LG, we still need to find another starter at LG. You've also said that you thought Howard would be gone after this season, and if that's the case, we need another Starting RT. All of those are more important than a RB to me. Without an OLine, that RB ain't going anywhere.
Where have you heard that Tunsil is unhappy?

If Green is a stud at LG, why would you need to draft another LG.

Agreed about Howard, but you can find a starter level RT in the 2nd rd. I'm hoping Heck/Deculus or Steckler can fill the RT position after Howard leaves.

I'm looking at filling the skill positions with something like this.

Bijan/Mayer 1st

Laporta/Charbonnet in the 2nd after trading back into the 2nd.

Which scenario do you like best? I'm guessing the 2nd. But know Bijan/Mayer are great players and guys I see as future all pro type guys. If you choose LaPorta/Charbonnet who would you like Caserio to pick with the two 1st's?
 

vtech9

Veteran
Where have you heard that Tunsil is unhappy?

If Green is a stud at LG, why would you need to draft another LG.

Agreed about Howard, but you can find a starter level RT in the 2nd rd. I'm hoping Heck/Deculus or Steckler can fill the RT position after Howard leaves.

I'm looking at filling the skill positions with something like this.

Bijan/Mayer 1st

Laporta/Charbonnet in the 2nd after trading back into the 2nd.

Which scenario do you like best? I'm guessing the 2nd. But know Bijan/Mayer are great players and guys I see as future all pro type guys. If you choose LaPorta/Charbonnet who would you like Caserio to pick with the two 1st's?
I meant RG.

I don't know anything about Mayer or Laporta. As far as Bijan and Charbonnet go, even though they might be great players, I'm against drafting a RB high if we don't have our OLine set. RB's generally have short careers, and if we don't fix the rest of our OLine, it will be even shorter for any RB we sign. I'd hate to draft a RB in the 1st only to have him out of the league in a season or two because we didn't fix our OLine first.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I don't think he's happy here, and I expect him to either ask for a trade, or to be released.

Center is just one of the positions we need to replace. Even if Kenyon Green turns out to be a stud, and long-time starter at RG, we still need to find another starter at LG. You've also said that you thought Howard would be gone after this season, and if that's the case, we need another Starting RT. All of those are more important than a RB to me. Without an OLine, that RB ain't going anywhere.
If Howard plays well, why would the team let him walk? Especially a guy who is still scratching the surface of his potential and can play both tackles. In terms of oline and rbs, they can make each other look better than they are. How would you rate Jacksonville oline last year? Well they avg like 4.5 ypc. Was it Robinson or was it the line? If you have a back who can make people miss in short areas, he's making the line look better than it is. If you have a line than is consistently getting the rb to the 2nd level, then vice versa. Mack wasn't able to do what Taylor has been able to do with the exact same line.
 

vtech9

Veteran
If Howard plays well, why would the team let him walk? Especially a guy who is still scratching the surface of his potential and can play both tackles. In terms of oline and rbs, they can make each other look better than they are. How would you rate Jacksonville oline last year? Well they avg like 4.5 ypc. Was it Robinson or was it the line? If you have a back who can make people miss in short areas, he's making the line look better than it is. If you have a line than is consistently getting the rb to the 2nd level, then vice versa. Mack wasn't able to do what Taylor has been able to do with the exact same line.
I brought up Howard for SteelB. He thought we should have already gotten rid of Howard, and if we get rid of Howard, we'll have to find a replacement. I like Howard, when he is at OT, so I think he'll be fine. I also think there is a BIG difference between Howard and the other RT's.

I didn't watch Jacksonville last year other than when the Texans played them, but I know their OLine was better than the Texans last year. Even the best RB is going nowhere if he is hit in the backfield every play.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I meant RG.

I don't know anything about Mayer or Laporta. As far as Bijan and Charbonnet go, even though they might be great players, I'm against drafting a RB high if we don't have our OLine set. RB's generally have short careers, and if we don't fix the rest of our OLine, it will be even shorter for any RB we sign. I'd hate to draft a RB in the 1st only to have him out of the league in a season or two because we didn't fix our OLine first.
I totally agree with your philosophy. Fix the trenches 1st,I've been preaching this for yrs. The TE position is part of the trenches. Cann isa serviceable RG who I expect to be playing down on Kirby for awhile. Gonna have to find a RT though.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I brought up Howard for SteelB. He thought we should have already gotten rid of Howard, and if we get rid of Howard, we'll have to find a replacement. I like Howard, when he is at OT, so I think he'll be fine. I also think there is a BIG difference between Howard and the other RT's.

I didn't watch Jacksonville last year other than when the Texans played them, but I know their OLine was better than the Texans last year. Even the best RB is going nowhere if he is hit in the backfield every play.
You can count on 3 things when it comes to Howard,

1. Howard will miss atleast 3-4 weeks
2. He will be avg to below avg in 8-10 games.
3. He will have 2-4 games where he looks great and fans will say look he's got potential to be great. It's fools gold. We're not talking about a guy like Brandon Brooks here. We're hoping Howard can become avg to above avg after 4 yrs down on Kirby. After awhile you just have to admit this guys never going to be what we thought he was going to be.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
You can count on 3 things when it comes to Howard,

1. Howard will miss atleast 3-4 weeks
2. He will be avg to below avg in 8-10 games.
3. He will have 2-4 games where he looks great and fans will say look he's got potential to be great. It's fools gold. We're not talking about a guy like Brandon Brooks here. We're hoping Howard can become avg to above avg after 4 yrs down on Kirby. After awhile you just have to admit this guys never going to be what we thought he was going to be.
Or maybe your opinion is just wrong... again
 

House of Pain

Wild Speculator
You can count on 3 things when it comes to Howard,

1. Howard will miss atleast 3-4 weeks
2. He will be avg to below avg in 8-10 games.
3. He will have 2-4 games where he looks great and fans will say look he's got potential to be great. It's fools gold. We're not talking about a guy like Brandon Brooks here. We're hoping Howard can become avg to above avg after 4 yrs down on Kirby. After awhile you just have to admit this guys never going to be what we thought he was going to be.
I see your point of view but I would feel a lot stronger about your position if they didn’t keep moving him around. You may not value that but I think it may have a considerable impact on his ability to be a above average player.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Or maybe your opinion is just wrong... again
It hasn't been for the last 4yrs.

Hey, maybe he will live up to his potential and play great during his walk yr. It's happened with other players quite often. If it does, do you re-sign him to a big contract? I'm on the fence, I dont like guys that only play well during contract yrs.
 


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