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Texans RBs.... Mack, Pierce, Ogunbowale

steelbtexan

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When all is said and done, I think fans will look back and realize how bad Lovie Smith, Pep Hamilton, and his offensive coaches missed on drafting a top RB in the 2022 draft.
I'm fine with not drafting a RB high in the draft. You don't like Peirce? I'm hoping they draft either Bijan or Charbonnet in next yrs draft.
 

steelbtexan

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Why spend a high pick on a position with fast flameouts in most cases, and with a team that does not have a playoff roster. RB's are a dime a dozen.

I wouldn't spend a #1 on a RB under any circumstances in the modern era we are in now. But in 23 or 24, we'll likely invest a #2 or #3 on a guy they feel can be a bellcow back for 3-4 years. You burn em, toss em, and get another one. You don't re-sign em. You trade/release them after their rookie deal is up with very rare exceptions.

That's how you treat the RB in this era of football.
Agreed, but Bijan is special. A threat to score every time he touches the ball.
 

steelbtexan

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Wow, I guess I forgot that Pierce caught 19 passes last year. 45 in 50 career games. No need to look for anyone else.

My bad.

That had to be the weakest ummm in the history of ummms.
You will see.

Peirce has great hand asnd is good in pass pro. Those stats don't look bad when you consider Peirce played part time.
 
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vtech9

Veteran
Agreed, but Bijan is special. A threat to score every time he touches the ball.
So was Reggie Busted...I mean Bush, but he didn't do much in the NFL.

After watching highlights of Bijan, he looks very similar to what I saw in Pierce. He might be a little faster, but I don't know. For now though, until we get the rest of the team built, I would not use a high pick on a RB.
 

steelbtexan

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So was Reggie Busted...I mean Bush, but he didn't do much in the NFL.

After watching highlights of Bijan, he looks very similar to what I saw in Pierce. He might be a little faster, but I don't know. For now though, until we get the rest of the team built, I would not use a high pick on a RB.
Totally different type of RB's.
 

vtech9

Veteran
He runs between the tackles better than Bush ever could and still has break away speed. He can also catch the ball out of the backfield like Bush, but is much more physical in pass pro.
You must not have read my comment clearly. I said Bijan looks similar to what I saw in Dameon Pierce. I was saying that Bush was supposed to be special, a can't miss prospect, the overall best player, but didn't turn out to be much in the NFL. Special players in college often fail in the NFL, especially RB's. I don't know for sure, but I would bet more RB's drafted in later rounds have had more success than RB's drafted high in the 1st round.
 

steelbtexan

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You must not have read my comment clearly. I said Bijan looks similar to what I saw in Dameon Pierce. I was saying that Bush was supposed to be special, a can't miss prospect, the overall best player, but didn't turn out to be much in the NFL. Special players in college often fail in the NFL, especially RB's. I don't know for sure, but I would bet more RB's drafted in later rounds have had more success than RB's drafted high in the 1st round.
I understand what you're saying and in most cases I agree with you. Bijan is the exception to the rule.

With this said if Caserio came out of this draft with

Rd1 Mayer
Rd1 Ricks
Rd2 Beal
Rd2 Charbonnet after trading up I would be very happy and I think this is the type of draft you're looking for?
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
I understand what you're saying and in most cases I agree with you. Bijan is the exception to the rule.

With this said if Caserio came out of this draft with

Rd1 Mayer
Rd1 Ricks
Rd2 Beal
Rd2 Charbonnet after trading up I would be very happy and I think this is the type of draft you're looking for?
I don't make an exception for Bijan or anyone else in general. Slight exception - if he has an exceptional season, and he falls and he's there in the mid-late 20s, and we trade up - he becomes the 3rd #1 pick in the same draft - I'd be ok with that.

And as far as your picks, it's pure folly to discuss the 2023 draft in July 2022. Guys will move up and down the board, injuries play a role, etc. And if Mills doesn't take major steps forward, we'll probably throw the farm at a team to get Stroud or some other stud.
 

thunderkyss

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I don't make an exception for Bijan or anyone else in general. Slight exception - if he has an exceptional season, and he falls and he's there in the mid-late 20s, and we trade up - he becomes the 3rd #1 pick in the same draft - I'd be ok with that.

And as far as your picks, it's pure folly to discuss the 2023 draft in July 2022. Guys will move up and down the board, injuries play a role, etc. And if Mills doesn't take major steps forward, we'll probably throw the farm at a team to get Stroud or some other stud.
For me it depends on the rest of the draft. If there's only 4 or 5 true blue chips & he's one of them, I'm probably going to take him in the 1st if I can't trade out.
 

steelbtexan

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I don't make an exception for Bijan or anyone else in general. Slight exception - if he has an exceptional season, and he falls and he's there in the mid-late 20s, and we trade up - he becomes the 3rd #1 pick in the same draft - I'd be ok with that.

And as far as your picks, it's pure folly to discuss the 2023 draft in July 2022. Guys will move up and down the board, injuries play a role, etc. And if Mills doesn't take major steps forward, we'll probably throw the farm at a team to get Stroud or some other stud.
I generally agree with you on theory. But not in this case.

It's not folly, it's fun to speculate. All of these guys but Beal are highly rated. I just put those names out there as a conversation piece. I do agree with you, in the fact that some guys will rise and some will fall.

The McNair's won't draft another QB represented by David the Racist. (Look at his client list.) I'm sure one go around with him and the Predator is enough to last a lifetime for the McNair's.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
I generally agree with you on theory. But not in this case.

It's not folly, it's fun to speculate. All of these guys but Beal are highly rated. I just put those names out there as a conversation piece. I do agree with you, in the fact that some guys will rise and some will fall.

The McNair's won't draft another QB represented by David the Racist. (Look at his client list.) I'm sure one go around with him and the Predator is enough to last a lifetime for the McNair's.
Ya good point. I think I saw that Stroud was a muffhugger client. No thanks. I would do everything humanely possible to avoid his clients if I am the Texans.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
do you agree that most RB’s have a short shelf life? If so, how can you justify a first rounder on that position?
Because the shelve life on a top back is still about 5 years. That’s the length of a rookie contract. If the RB still has tread on the tires, franchise him. If you don’t want to pay him, do a sign and trade.

But the RB has to be an impact player on all 3 downs. It has to be a special RB. How many special RBs are in the league? 6 or 7? They don’t grow on trees. That’s why you you don’t see that many going in the 1st round.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
Because the shelve life on a top back is still about 5 years. That’s the length of a rookie contract. If the RB still has tread on the tires, franchise him. If you don’t want to pay him, do a sign and trade.

But the RB has to be an impact player on all 3 downs. It has to be a special RB. How many special RBs are in the league? 6 or 7? They don’t grow on trees. That’s why you you don’t see that many going in the 1st round.
Counterpoint back - you can find excellent backs in round 2 and 3. No need to burn a first rounder on one. It’s a defensible position, but we just disagree.
 

thunderkyss

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Counterpoint back - you can find excellent backs in round 2 and 3. No need to burn a first rounder on one. It’s a defensible position, but we just disagree.
I’ve yet to see the Texans draft a RB worth a crap that made it past three years.

Other teams may be able to find excellent backs in the 3rd/4th round. I don’t believe the Texans have that ability
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Counterpoint back - you can find excellent backs in round 2 and 3. No need to burn a first rounder on one. It’s a defensible position, but we just disagree.
You come by your belief totally honestly. Up until Emmitt Smith, no team that won a SB also had the league's leading rusher that year, even since then, it hasn't been common. And the Broncos with Shanahan and Kubiak (and after) made an art of finding late round running backs to plug into their system who could get them 1000 yard seasons.

So many 1st round running backs have been busts. And first round running backs are getting more and more rare as a consequence (which will create a self-fulfilling prophecy).

But if you look at the great running backs of all time, almost all of them are 1st rounders. Sure there are a few 2nd and 3rd rounders in there, and yeah, I have a soft spot for UDFA's like Foster and Holmes, but the majority of the greats are 1st rounders.

I see this as one of Kubiak's big failings. He had a great system and he got hung up on the idea that he could take a late round scrub and get yards out of him, which was great once he got to Foster, but hurt us in those early Dayne and Slaton years.

If you want to be a great running team, then you should draft RBs early and often until you get your guy.

At least, that's my opinion.
 

steelbtexan

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You come by your belief totally honestly. Up until Emmitt Smith, no team that won a SB also had the league's leading rusher that year, even since then, it hasn't been common. And the Broncos with Shanahan and Kubiak (and after) made an art of finding late round running backs to plug into their system who could get them 1000 yard seasons.

So many 1st round running backs have been busts. And first round running backs are getting more and more rare as a consequence (which will create a self-fulfilling prophecy).

But if you look at the great running backs of all time, almost all of them are 1st rounders. Sure there are a few 2nd and 3rd rounders in there, and yeah, I have a soft spot for UDFA's like Foster and Holmes, but the majority of the greats are 1st rounders.

I see this as one of Kubiak's big failings. He had a great system and he got hung up on the idea that he could take a late round scrub and get yards out of him, which was great once he got to Foster, but hurt us in those early Dayne and Slaton years.

If you want to be a great running team, then you should draft RBs early and often until you get your guy.

At least, that's my opinion.
They did draft Tate in the 2nd rd.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Hmmm...What round was Domanick Davis drafted in? I seem to recall that he was pretty good for the Texans until his knees quit on him.
4th round.

The Texans' Historical RB Draft Picks (excluding FBs):
2002 - 4th Round - Jonathan Wells (374/1167)
2003 - 4th Round - Domanick Davis (770/3195)
2005 - 3rd Round - Vernand Morency (171/726)
2006 - 6th Round - Wali Lundy (124/476)
2008 - 3rd Round - Steve Slaton (442/1896)
2010 - 2nd Round - Ben Tate (540/2363)
2014 - 6th Round - Alfred Blue (673/2407)
2015 - 7th Round - Kenny Hilliard (0/0)
2016 - 4th Round - Tyler Ervin (19/92)
2017 - 3rd Round - D'Onta Foreman (240/987)
2022 - 4th Round - Dameon Pierce

I'm just saying, we've had coaches who supposedly were all about the running game and building through the draft, but they never really drafted like it. They've always taken this "RBs are a dime a dozen and I can get them in the later rounds" approach, but then haven't even really tried to get them in the later rounds. To me, this just seems like a poor drafting strategy. If you're going to go with that later round approach, then you need to take more chances.

Sure, we hit with a UDFA, but then since we had Foster, we never really drafted anyone to be that solid backup. I know, we drafted Ben Tate when we weren't sure what we had with Foster, but they still should have been drafting more late round RBs.

And when we didn't have an obvious homerun hitter or bell-cow RB, we should have been drafting them higher.

IMO.
 

Toro Bravo

Waterboy
When all is said and done, I think fans will look back and realize how bad Lovie Smith, Pep Hamilton, and his offensive coaches missed on drafting a top RB in the 2022 draft.
I somewhat agree. There were several good RB's in the top of the draft we could have had. But I don't think it was up to Lovie Smith, Pep Hamilton and others. There were so many needs on this team that running back is considered a luxury.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I somewhat agree. There were several good RB's in the top of the draft we could have had. But I don't think it was up to Lovie Smith, Pep Hamilton and others. There were so many needs on this team that running back is considered a luxury.
I agree, RB is one of the big needs on this team if not one of the biggest. IMO I think this has more to do with the complete discombobulation of the franchise as a whole. Since Bob McNair has died the Texans have been more of a complete fustercluck than usual. Cal McNair suffers from a chronic case of rectal cranial inversion.
 

thunderkyss

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I somewhat agree. There were several good RB's in the top of the draft we could have had. But I don't think it was up to Lovie Smith, Pep Hamilton and others. There were so many needs on this team that running back is considered a luxury.
Christian Harris is the third LB. He might end up being our best LB & the captain on defense but we had a viable LB room.

That 2nd round pick could have got us a 2nd round RB. A starter. A 3 down bell cow we don’t have. But they chose to draft a 3rd LB.

I hope for the best for Christian Harris. & want the Texans to win it all every year. But to say, “there were so many needs & RB was a luxury.” Doesn’t work here.

32 out of 32

That’s where we ranked in rushing

32 out of 32.
 

steelbtexan

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I agree, RB is one of the big needs on this team if not one of the biggest. IMO I think this has more to do with the complete discombobulation of the franchise as a whole. Since Bob McNair has died the Texans have been more of a complete fustercluck than usual. Cal McNair suffers from a chronic case of rectal cranial inversion.
You don't like Pierce?

I like next yrs RB class alot. I'm also glad they took fliers on the RB's they brought in.
 

steelbtexan

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Christian Harris is the third LB. He might end up being our best LB & the captain on defense but we had a viable LB room.

That 2nd round pick could have got us a 2nd round RB. A starter. A 3 down bell cow we don’t have. But they chose to draft a 3rd LB.

I hope for the best for Christian Harris. & want the Texans to win it all every year. But to say, “there were so many needs & RB was a luxury.” Doesn’t work here.

32 out of 32

That’s where we ranked in rushing

32 out of 32.
Obviously Lovie disagrees with you
 

steelbtexan

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Well Lovie's son is the LB coach. What would you expect?
I like Harris, the leader of an Alabama defense is a pretty good pick. IMHO

What RB did you want them to pick? Like I said before, next yrs RB class is much better than this yrs class. I'm good with picking Harris and waiting to draft a RB next yr. Unless you think there's a RB in this class that could get you into the playoffs. I'm also fine with taking Pierce. He's a potential hammer.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I like Harris, the leader of an Alabama defense is a pretty good pick. IMHO

What RB did you want them to pick? Like I said before, next yrs RB class is much better than this yrs class. I'm good with picking Harris and waiting to draft a RB next yr. Unless you think there's a RB in this class that could get you into the playoffs. I'm also fine with taking Pierce. He's a potential hammer.
Well, I liked Zamir "Zeus" White at #68 who BTW had the same stats amd measurables as Breece Hall who was drafted at #36. And BTW White did it in the SEC not defense deficient Big 12.
 

steelbtexan

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Well, I liked Zamir "Zeus" White at #68 who BTW had the same stats amd measurables as Breece Hall who was drafted at #36. And BTW White did it in the SEC not defense deficient Big 12.
I liked White alot too. But coming off of 2 ACL's #68 was to rich for my blood. Pierce did more with less caries on a worse team against those same SEC defenses. Do you not like the Pierce pick? Give me Harris and Pierce over White and whoever else you wanted to pick in the 4th.
 

thunderkyss

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Obviously Lovie disagrees with you
with what, that we were 32 out of 32 running the ball?

I don't have a problem with the pick. My issue (basic reading comprehension) is with the reasoning. Do you know what premise I was arguing?
 

steelbtexan

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with what, that we were 32 out of 32 running the ball?

I don't have a problem with the pick. My issue (basic reading comprehension) is with the reasoning. Do you know what premise I was arguing?
That they don't need a 3rd lb.

I disagree with you because I believe in picking talent over position and I think Harris is more talented than any RB that was available at that pick. You would think after drafting DeMeco that fans would be on board with picking the leader of the Alabama defense.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
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That they don't need a 3rd lb.

I disagree with you because I believe in picking talent over position and I think Harris is more talented than any RB that was available at that pick. You would think after drafting DeMeco that fans would be on board with picking the leader of the Alabama defense.
I don't believe he'll be a 3rd lb past this season
 

vtech9

Veteran
with what, that we were 32 out of 32 running the ball?

I don't have a problem with the pick. My issue (basic reading comprehension) is with the reasoning. Do you know what premise I was arguing?
Without fixing the Oline, there isn't much any college RB was going to do here. Because of our Oline issues, I think Pierce was our best RB option in this draft, and we got him. I think the Texans are going to start Pierce off on a slow roll, but unless Mack really breaks out, Pierce will be our starter, and bell-cow RB, from the 2nd half of the season on.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
I think the Texans are going to start Pierce off on a slow roll, but unless Mack really breaks out, Pierce will be our starter, and bell-cow RB, from the 2nd half of the season on.
Pierce played in 48 games at Florida. He had 9 games with double digit carries. His college high was 15 carries. Zero 100 yard rushing games.

That looks more like a backup RB than a bell cow, to me. Which is fine. Every team needs depth and no team needs it any more than the Texans.
 

vtech9

Veteran
Pierce played in 48 games at Florida. He had 9 games with double digit carries. His college high was 15 carries. Zero 100 yard rushing games.

That looks more like a backup RB than a bell cow, to me. Which is fine. Every team needs depth and no team needs it any more than the Texans.
And it's obvious that you don't read other comments, nor know much about Pierce. Pierce's lack of use is good for us. Florida wasn't very good. They had 4 RB's that they rotated. None of them got a lot of carries. Florida's HC was also fired at the end of the season, and it has been speculated that he was fired because they didn't use Pierce properly.
 

thunderkyss

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Without fixing the Oline, there isn't much any college RB was going to do here.
I know you're just jumping into the conversation, so to help, we're talking about after they brought in Warhop, Cann, & drafted Green.
 

thunderkyss

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Ok, care to in 3 sentences or less tell me what your point is because obviously I can't follow your mental gymnastics.

There were so many needs on this team that running back is considered a luxury.
This argument doesn't apply in this case. We were 32 of 32 in running & our LBs were a bright spot on our defense.


Doesn't mean we shouldn't have picked Christian Harris in the 2nd round. There are lots of better reasons to justify what they did.
 

vtech9

Veteran
I know you're just jumping into the conversation, so to help, we're talking about after they brought in Warhop, Cann, & drafted Green.
Ok...What RB would you have wanted them to get after drafting Green? I know a lot of people wanted Breece Hall, and I liked him too, but Pierce was my #1 RB want, and I knew we could get him for much cheaper. Pierce is a better fit for our team right now. Some think Mack will be better than everyone is expecting, so I think we are good at RB for now. I would still keep an eye out for RB's released during training camp.

We won't know if Green, Cann, and Warhop are going to be the answer for our Oline until we see how the Oline plays. We don't know if Tunsil will play to the end of the play in the run game. It's still too early to know if our Oline is fixed or not. Drafting a RB high, until we know our Oline won't get them killed, is not in my priority list.
 

Lucky

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And it's obvious that you don't read other comments, nor know much about Pierce.
Those comments are going to tell me Pierce is certain to do things in the NFL he never did in college? I guess that could happen. But is it likely to happen?
 


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