Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Texans 1.3 Pick Derek Stingley Jr.

Texansballer74

The Marine
No doubt the young man showed extreme talent in 2019. But so many of his successful plays displayed in the videos are accompanied by pushoffs and contacts way beyond the 5 yds allowed in the NFL. Besides overcoming his injury, another question that needs to be answered is will he be able to maintain his 2019 college success while, by NFL rules, keeping his hands to himself.
Every cornerbacks does this. The physical ones with that type of reputation gets away with it on the NFL level. Ramsey is notorious for using his hands beyond 5 yards. Just like top wide receivers get away with pushing off a lot. One example Hopkins.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I agree on the much less stress on the feet than in a hard 1 step plant and drive situation...I'm just saying he is still putting significant stress on his foot with the pumping as well...the load is just spread out over repeated plants...but that's the drill & that's how it is taught...they want to see quick change of direction, your ability to shuffle and gather your feet quickly to be able to react forward....which is how it will most likely happen in a game.

..If this were a WR we were talking about where precise cutting off of huge loads of pressure on 1 foot at sharp angles is vital to be a good route runner and selling routes, i would agree with you, but for DB's, the stopping on a dime, planting and driving forward off 1 foot...its rarely gonna happen like that in games. There's usually a "throttle down" of some type or reshuffling of feet for positioning first when you're out there naturally running with guys who know where they're going and you as the DB don't....
It happens all of the time when a CB needs to acutely comeback for a ball thrown to a receiver that he is the least bit ahead of.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
I agree on the much less stress on the feet than in a hard 1 step plant and drive situation...I'm just saying he is still putting significant stress on his foot with the pumping as well...the load is just spread out over repeated plants...but that's the drill & that's how it is taught...they want to see quick change of direction, your ability to shuffle and gather your feet quickly to be able to react forward....which is how it will most likely happen in a game.

..If this were a WR we were talking about where precise cutting off of huge loads of pressure on 1 foot at sharp angles is vital to be a good route runner and selling routes, i would agree with you, but for DB's, the stopping on a dime, planting and driving forward off 1 foot...its rarely gonna happen like that in games. There's usually a "throttle down" of some type or reshuffling of feet for positioning first when you're out there naturally running with guys who know where they're going and you as the DB don't....
Stress, yes, but not as much. On a 1 to 10 scale the stress of stop on a dime, foot plant is 10. Pumping the legs is a 5. Just to use a very simple comparison. You can get a feel at home by jogging in place for 1min. Then stand with your feet shoulder width apart. Push as hard as you can with either leg and make your feet come off the ground. Like leaning on one leg and driving your body off the ground. Note the greater force to do so?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
No doubt the young man showed extreme talent in 2019. But so many of his successful plays displayed in the videos are accompanied by pushoffs and contacts way beyond the 5 yds allowed in the NFL. Besides overcoming his injury, another question that needs to be answered is will he be able to maintain his 2019 college success while, by NFL rules, keeping his hands to himself.
You do see that on film. 5yrds is not very much ground at NFL speed.

To the people who are saying we are bashing Stingley. We are not making him out to be bad. Just certain things that you can see on tape of things like pushing a WR after 5yrds. Not every single play, but watch 10min of a scouting report video. And you can see him doing it. Not saying that he was not pushed on some plays either. Clearly in a video I posted he is shoved by the WR, makes a great comeback and breaks up the pass.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
I hope he's able to do this in week 17 as well as he does in week 1.

As we saw with Schaub this is the type of injury that gets progressively worse as the season progresses.
Hard to explain clearly. But the reason why is the feet, ankles, hips and body in general get tired and beat up. A surgical treatment will tend to be more difficult to keep at 100%. If you read about the injury and surgery you will likely see how it happens
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Every cornerbacks does this. The physical ones with that type of reputation gets away with it on the NFL level. Ramsey is notorious for using his hands beyond 5 yards. Just like top wide receivers get away with pushing off a lot. One example Hopkins.
As of last year, the League has announced that the refs would be more attuned to PI.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
That wording sounds like he IS NOT going to be ready day 1.
I'm not seeing where you're getting that.

Far as I can tell, Stingley will be playing day 1. The question is how good can he be, will the injury prevent him from being the top corner he was.

Metchie is the one that is questionable.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To the people who are saying we are bashing Stingley. We are not making him out to be bad. Just certain things that you can see on tape of things like pushing a WR after 5yrds. Not every single play, but watch 10min of a scouting report video. And you can see him doing it. Not saying that he was not pushed on some plays either. Clearly in a video I posted he is shoved by the WR, makes a great comeback and breaks up the pass.
I was under the impression Gardner was worse about this.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
It happens all of the time when a CB needs to acutely comeback for a ball thrown to a receiver that he is the least bit ahead of.
Alot of times Theyre hardly moving at that point and you see what you’re talking about mostly with cb’s who are playing off in a zone defense thats designed to keep everything in front of them.

Lovie’s already said he’s gonna be a man guy shadowing the team’s #1 all over…so he’ll be running more with guys vs. reacting up to passes thrown in front of him…even when he’s in off man situations.

Furthermore in that video drill and in his combine he showed that he can plant hard and drive forward hard off of that foot whether out of the backpedal or in the case of the drill and his combine, from a static start which also puts serious pressure on your feet too.

The left foot is the foot with the lisfranc. Check out his combine.


When he goes up to high point that pass in the backpedal hip drill at the beginning, he jumps up & comes down on his left foot. When he runs his 40. Guess which foot he uses to drive off for his start? His left. Think that was a coincidence? Those 2 drills showed he can in fact put significant stress on that foot with no issues.

i think the cautious attitude NC is speaking toward is just giving him all of the time he needs to recover fully & not interrupt the recovery process trying to rush him into the line up. He looks good now 7-8 months out but they want to give him the full 11 anyway.
 
Last edited:

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Stress, yes, but not as much. On a 1 to 10 scale the stress of stop on a dime, foot plant is 10. Pumping the legs is a 5. Just to use a very simple comparison. You can get a feel at home by jogging in place for 1min. Then stand with your feet shoulder width apart. Push as hard as you can with either leg and make your feet come off the ground. Like leaning on one leg and driving your body off the ground. Note the greater force to do so?
your example is flawed. He aint standing in place…he’s moving in the drill. That alone adds a bit higher level of stress.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Don’t see any stress in Gardners movements (been watching Jets OTA’s) most fluid hips I’ve ever seen as if he’s just floating on air and mirroring receivers. Now Garrett Wilson plants hard and cuts on a dime, you have to play off and try to maintain contact otherwise it’s over, long as your not too grabby. Garrett looks like a young Keenan Allen. Both learn off each other on a fast track, my question for Stingley is he matching up with Cooks yet in 1 on 1’s? That will probably determine how ready he is.

:koolaid:
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Don’t see any stress in Gardners movements (been watching Jets OTA’s) most fluid hips I’ve ever seen as if he’s just floating on air and mirroring receivers. Now Garrett Wilson plants hard and cuts on a dime, you have to play off and try to maintain contact otherwise it’s over, long as your not too grabby. Garrett looks like a young Keenan Allen. Both learn off each other on a fast track, my question for Stingley is he matching up with Cooks yet in 1 on 1’s? That will probably determine how ready he is.

:koolaid:
Thibodeaux is dealing with an injury now.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
your example is flawed. He aint standing in place…he’s moving in the drill. That alone adds a bit higher level of stress.
It's a simple example. And a factual one. But, ok... Do 10 jump squats and then do 10 jump squats with 135lbs (bar and 2 45's) and which is more stress?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Don’t see any stress in Gardners movements (been watching Jets OTA’s) most fluid hips I’ve ever seen as if he’s just floating on air and mirroring receivers. Now Garrett Wilson plants hard and cuts on a dime, you have to play off and try to maintain contact otherwise it’s over, long as your not too grabby. Garrett looks like a young Keenan Allen. Both learn off each other on a fast track, my question for Stingley is he matching up with Cooks yet in 1 on 1’s? That will probably determine how ready he is.

:koolaid:
He is not practicing yet. He is just running some, not all, drills.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
1654218155555.png
When he goes up to high point that pass in the backpedal hip drill at the beginning, he jumps up & comes down on his left foot. When he runs his 40. Guess which foot he uses to drive off for his start? His left. Think that was a coincidence? Those 2 drills showed he can in fact put significant stress on that foot with no issues.
During his Pro Day, he was wearing a rigid plate not allowing bending/stressing of the lisfranc joint, and distributing what stress may be endured throughout the foot. On most of the plays pointed out he comes down flat footed with minimal stress on the repair. He will not be able to wear that protection in game play without significant loss of performance. Furthermore, drills are controlled/scripted and limited in reps, benefits that he and his foot will not enjoy during a game. Sudden unanticipated (unscripted) moves account for most lower limb joint stresses and injuries.

As I do appreciate your observations and input, it is apparent that I will not have any affect on your and other's opinion here, and I have already spent too much time and energy on posts regarding Stingley. So I hope that no one will mind if I turn my attention to other more productive subjects, as we all wait for answers that will only come at very earliest well into the 2022 season. :tiphat:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
View attachment 10221


During his Pro Day, he was wearing a rigid plate not allowing bending/stressing of the lisfranc joint, and distributing what stress may be endured throughout the foot. On most of the plays pointed out he comes down flat footed with minimal stress on the repair. He will not be able to wear that protection in game play without significant loss of performance. Furthermore, drills are controlled/scripted and limited in reps, benefits that he and his foot will not enjoy during a game. Sudden unanticipated (unscripted) moves account for most lower limb joint stresses and injuries.

As I do appreciate your observations and input, it is apparent that I will not have any affect on your and other's opinion here, and I have already spent too much time and energy on posts regarding Stingley. So I hope that no one will mind if I turn my attention to other more productive subjects, as we all wait for answers that will only come at very earliest well into the 2022 season. :tiphat:
:tiphat:
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
View attachment 10221


During his Pro Day, he was wearing a rigid plate not allowing bending/stressing of the lisfranc joint, and distributing what stress may be endured throughout the foot. On most of the plays pointed out he comes down flat footed with minimal stress on the repair. He will not be able to wear that protection in game play without significant loss of performance. Furthermore, drills are controlled/scripted and limited in reps, benefits that he and his foot will not enjoy during a game. Sudden unanticipated (unscripted) moves account for most lower limb joint stresses and injuries.

As I do appreciate your observations and input, it is apparent that I will not have any affect on your and other's opinion here, and I have already spent too much time and energy on posts regarding Stingley. So I hope that no one will mind if I turn my attention to other more productive subjects, as we all wait for answers that will only come at very earliest well into the 2022 season. :tiphat:
Will playing zone have less stress than playing man?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Will playing zone have less stress than playing man?
No, no matter what a DB plays as far as scheme they still have to do the same basic things. Plant, cut, stop and go and so on. A smart WR coach/OC/HC (one of them) will make a DB with an injury to a certain side have to plant and cut that way. Hoping that the additional stresses will make them slower or react slower in some situations.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Be better off to worry about his craft, winning Championships, & getting into the HOF.
It’s also competitive nature to out duel your contemporary, unless of course your not competitive. I don’t care what it is, bowling with your buddies, fishing, hunting, golfing and hell yeah, brewing (it’s about the game that defines your self worth). Everything is about Being The Best @ Your Craft and respected by others. Professional’s try to maxamize contract or next one.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Wouldn't discussing Sauce be off topic in the Stingley thread. Apply the same logic in this thread as in the Uvalde thread.
Stingley has been the subject of the posts you’re referring to.

regardless what peripheral information may be introduced in the post, if the subject is Stingley, it is not off topic

This is 4th grade reading level concepts. I may be wrong assuming we’re all past the 4th grade.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Stingley has been the subject of the posts you’re referring to.

regardless what peripheral information may be introduced in the post, if the subject is Stingley, it is not off topic

This is 4th grade reading level concepts. I may be wrong assuming we’re all past the 4th grade.
Tell me again how Gardner relates in anyway to Stingley? Other than some wanted Gardner over Stingley in the draft. (Myself included.) As CnD asked upthread, is this still the Stingley thread? Yet this thread isn't being treated the same as the Uvalde thread is my only point.

We need to apply the same standards to all threads if you want to go there.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We need to apply the same standards to all threads if you want to go there.
You obviously don't understand

The posts are not about Gardner. They are about Stingley. The posts CnnD referred to have been deleted or moved.

The posts you see in this thread were not deleted or moved because they are about Stingley. The posts you are talking about are comparing Stingley (the subject) to Gardner
 

Dejaview

All Pro
You obviously don't understand

The posts are not about Gardner. They are about Stingley. The posts CnnD referred to have been deleted or moved.

The posts you see in this thread were not deleted or moved because they are about Stingley. The posts you are talking about are comparing Stingley (the subject) to Gardner
As Stingley would probably say, Are you two married?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
@thunderkyss as a member of this message board is one of the better commenters. Often bringing engaging conversation and different points of view. As a member, he is what good message boards are all about. As moderator of a message board, he is the antithesis of what a good moderator should be. Instead of promoting good conversation and encouraging discussions, he does more to stifle it. It was exactly this type of mod behavior that destroyed the Houston Texans message board. I'm sure in TK's mind he probably thinks he's one the best moderators there is. Unfortunately, when he does get a burr in his butt he becomes a bit mean and vindictive. Something a mod should never do and should resign if they do.
I didn't visit the Houston Texans MB much after I joined here. Did it get that bad? Hopefully this place doesn't become what you are describing.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I didn't visit the Houston Texans MB much after I joined here. Did it get that bad? Hopefully this place doesn't become what you are describing.
Yeah it got pretty bad. They added a couple of new mods who were a little power hungry and let it go to their heads. Turned a good message board into Stalag 17. It got so bad many of the best posters left. There were so many complaints that Texans ended up just shutting it down.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yeah it got pretty bad. They added a couple of new mods who were a little power hungry and let it go to their heads. Turned a good message board into Stalag 17. It got so bad many of the best posters left. There were so many complaints that Texans ended up just shutting it down.
It wasn’t the mods, it was the twelve year olds
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Stingley thread has life of its own, all encompassing. We are all accountable, not just mods to police ourselves, act reasonable & respectful of others.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
Tell me again how Gardner relates in anyway to Stingley? Other than some wanted Gardner over Stingley in the draft. (Myself included.) As CnD asked upthread, is this still the Stingley thread? Yet this thread isn't being treated the same as the Uvalde thread is my only point.

We need to apply the same standards to all threads if you want to go there.
They are being compared due to playing the same position. As well as Stingley having an injury issue and Sauce being full go.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
It wasn’t the mods, it was the twelve year olds
Difference of opinion. The name Yossarian comes to mind as one of the newly appointed mods who was far from being a 12-year-old. He was an old curmudgeon whose newfound power went to his head and became an overzealous mod running off many of the regular posters (including me, so I'm speaking from experience) in the first 30 to 60 days after he became a mod. I think where you're confused is the new mods tried turning the message board into a message board for eight-year-olds.
 
Last edited:


Top