Steel B's Mock 2.0

[steelbtexan]

Rd.1 Jadeveon -DE/OLB South Carolina,6'5, 266 Lbs, 4.5- It came down to Clowney or Robinson and the thought of pairing Clowney with Watt was to great to turn down. Pairing the explosive Clowney with Watt helps greatly improve the Texans anemic pass rush.

2. Jimmy Garappolo- QB Eastern Illinois, 6'2, 225 Lbs, 4.9. Garappolo has a strong arm/quick release and is a great decision maker. He moves around very well, which is what won me over when it came to 2nd tier prospects like Murray/Mettenberger/Savage.

3. Marcus Martin- C/OG USC, 6'3, 320 Lbs, 5.2, Martin played OG before moving to C last yr. He will start off at OG for a couple of yrs the replace Myers at C., like the Seahawks did with Unger. Martin is a big athletic Mauler who when put next to D.Brown helps solve the 3rd &short/red zone woes. This puts Ques where he belongs at his natural OT position. Martin is every bit as good as the more highly rated Fu'a -Filo. IMHO A steal in the 3rd rd.

4. Jordan Zumwalt- ILB/OLB UCLA 6'4 235, 4.7- Zumwalt is a fast instinctive ILB who's intensity makes him a great pairing with Cushing. He's what the Texans have been missing next o Cushing for yrs. A sure tackler who has good enough speed/instinct to cover the TE. The other great thing about drafting Zumwalt is he played in a pro style 3-4 under Mora at UCLA so there should be less of a learning curve.

4. Daniel McCullers- DE/NT Tennessee, 6'6 352 Lbs, 5.2- McCullers is a huge man who was miscast as a NT in college. Being a huge man he was asked to play too many snaps and wore down as games got into the 4th qter. He's too tall to play NT in the NFL but will make a great 5 tech in RAC's defense. MCullers holds up great against the double teams allowing Cushing, Zumwalt/Clowney/Reed to roam. He' also should make a great pairing with Watt batting down passes. I also considered Taylor Hart here, a big high motor/ athletic guy.

5. Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest, 5'9 193 LBS 4.5, BOB gets his Wes Welker for the Texans offense. Campanaro is a fast/shifty slot WR who ran in the high 4.4's at the combine. He also has great hands. He also can KR/PR. Sounds a lot like Welker too me.

6. Beau Allen- NT Wisconsin, 6'3 333 Lbs, 5.2- Allen is a claasic run stuffing NT. He is strong against double teams and consistently holds up against the run. Allen isn't a pass rusher but has a good 1st step for such a big man. Allen/Powe give the Texans the big NT's that fans have been wanting tor yrs. Finally the NT's will keep Cushing/Zumwalt clean.

6. Matt Patchan- OT/OG Boston College 6'6 302 LBS, 5.0- Patchan was a highly decorated OL coming out of high school. He went to Miami and got hurt, transferred to Boston College and got hurt again in an offseason motorcycle accident. He was finally healthy for his Sr yr and helped pave the way for Andre Williams phenominal yr. Patchan is as gifted as any OL in this draft but has had 2 ACL surgeries in his college career. I really like him and would be willing to trade up into the 5th rd to get him. If he stays healthy you get a 5th rd starter. He's that good, well worth the risk. High character guy.

7. Demetri Goodson- CB Baylor 5'11, 194 Lbs, 4.4- Goodson is a former basketball player who played really well for Art Briles last yr. he's got good speed and can turn his hips and run, an upgrade over McCain as the nickel CB. Since Goodson is new to playing football I chose him at this spot because I think he has the most upside of any of the CB's left on the board. At the very least he will help upgrade a putrid ST's. Plus bringing a talent hometown guy home can never be a bad thing?

This draft fills most of the holes and adds badly needed speed to the team. I would also like to add a speedy 3rd down RB like LaDarius Perkins to the mix but couldn't find a spot for him. Maybe Rick can sign him or George Atkinson III as FA's.

I put a lot of thought into this mock and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. Let the critiques begin.

 

[infantrycak]

Was there an unspoken trade(s) in there somewhere? - you are two picks short. You could use one on that TE who may drop due to drug use iirc, name escapes me at the moment.

A 352 lb DE who wears down? We'd have the heaviest front 3 in the NFL.

Were Patchan's surgeries both on the same knee or one on each?

I haven't been paying attention - is there a kicker worth spending the Mr. Irrelevant pick on?

 

[thunderkyss]

Rd.1 Jadeveon -DE/OLB South Carolina

2. Jimmy Garappolo- QB Eastern Illinois

3. Marcus Martin- C/OG USC

4. Jordan Zumwalt- ILB/OLB

4. Daniel McCullers- DE/NT Tennessee

5. Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest

6. Beau Allen- NT Wisconsin

6. Matt Patchan- OT/OG Boston College

7. Demetri Goodson- CB Baylor

Hell Yeah!!
[IMGwidthsize=450]http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/321/331/rn_georgiatennessee_ms_18_crop_exact.jpg?w=1500&h=1500&q=85[/IMG]

I can dig it. Watt, Clowney, McCullers.....

 

[steelbtexan]

Was there an unspoken trade(s) in there somewhere? - you are two picks short. You could use one on that TE who may drop due to drug use iirc, name escapes me at the moment.

A 352 lb DE who wears down? We'd have the heaviest front 3 in the NFL.

Were Patchan's surgeries both on the same knee or one on each?

I haven't been paying attention - is there a kicker worth spending the Mr. Irrelevant pick on?

What' rds were the extra picks that I missed in? In this case give me Colt Lyerla TE Oregon and Ladarius Perkins with the extra picks.

I don't worry about a 352 Lbs 5 tech, he will hold up against the run and keep the OLB's clean. Rushing the passer isn't a requirement for a 5 tech As far as wearing down goes I think McCullers will be very effective playing 50 snaps a game. instead of the 75-80 they asked him to play at Tennesseee. Like Bum Phillips once said about Bob Young as he got older, would you rather have a great player playing 3 qters or an avg player playing 4 qters? With Crick subbing in for Watt and McCullers and Allen subbing in for Powe the DL should stay fresh thoughout the game. This was one of the biggest problems with the Texans defense last yr. IMHO

I read one of CND's posts in another thread and I believe Patchan has injured both knees.

 

[infantrycak]

I should have said overall, and especially with the other two picks, really like the draft. I'd put Watkins in over Clowney but despite what some may think I am not going to throw anything if Clowney (or for that matter Robinson) are selected.

 

[steelbtexan]

Hell Yeah!!
[IMGwidthsize=450]http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/321/331/rn_georgiatennessee_ms_18_crop_exact.jpg?w=1500&h=1500&q=85[/IMG]

I can dig it. Watt, Clowney, McCullers.....

Yep,

With McCullers and Allen you would have a great run defense. On 3rd and longs you could go with a 4-3 look of Mercilus/Crick/Watt/Clowney. That should provide the pass rush that's been missing. The defense would also be very scheme diverse. The only thing the defense would be missing would be a 3rd CB and I think you could pick up a vet min guy like Rashean Mathis to fill that role.

 

[steelbtexan]

I should have said overall, and especially with the other two picks, really like the draft. I'd put Watkins in over Clowney but despite what some may think I am not going to throw anything if Clowney (or for that matter Robinson) are selected.

I'm in this boat, whoever they pick minus Teddy, I will be happy with the pick. The fine china will remain safe. LOL

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Missed a 6th and 7th.

Good logic behind the draft.

Not totally sold on Garoppolo yet but what do I know.

 

[NCTexan]

Not a Garoppolo fan, and I'm not sure how I feel about Clowney. Besides that I like the mock a lot.

 

[leebigeztx]

Not a Garoppolo fan, and I'm not sure how I feel about Clowney. Besides that I like the mock a lot.

Me too. Garopolo is getting a lot of play,but to me,he's case keenum. If he were like kapas a big guy with a cannon and great athlete,I could buy it,but garapolo looks like a career backup. I'm not taking that dude in the 2nd rd.

 

[Corrosion]

I only have one complaint.


If there is no QB worth taking 1:1 .... There is no QB worth taking in the entire draft. Either you get a franchise guy or you don't.

 

[thunderkyss]

I only have one complaint.


If there is no QB worth taking 1:1 .... There is no QB worth taking in the entire draft. Either you get a franchise guy or you don't.

You wouldn't draft Flacco at 18 or Roethlisberger at 11 or Rodgers at 26 or Russell Wilson in the third...

guys are selected closer to 1-1 the more likely that they'll be a franchise QB. Being picked in the 6th round, or even undrafted does not preclude a prospect from being a franchise (even HoF) QB in this league. It just says that it isn't likely.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I only have one complaint.


If there is no QB worth taking 1:1 .... There is no QB worth taking in the entire draft. Either you get a franchise guy or you don't.

So... no Russell Wilson, No Colin Kaepernick, no Tom Brady...

Just because you draft a QB who needs some development doesn't mean he can't develop into a Franchise Guy. And just because you need a Franchise Guy to start, doesn't mean you don't need a backup in case he gets injured.

I think what you're saying is very, very short-sighted and very, very naive strategically.

 

[ObsiWan]

Rd.1 Jadeveon -DE/OLB South Carolina
2. Jimmy Garappolo- QB Eastern Illinois
3. Marcus Martin- C/OG USC
4. Jordan Zumwalt- ILB/OLB
4. Daniel McCullers- DE/NT Tennessee
5. Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest
6. Beau Allen- NT Wisconsin
6. Matt Patchan- OT/OG Boston College
7. Demetri Goodson- CB Baylor

No OT until the 6th??
and I thought I had you on the Robinson bandwagon

 

[steelbtexan]

Me too. Garopolo is getting a lot of play,but to me,he's case keenum. If he were like kapas a big guy with a cannon and great athlete,I could buy it,but garapolo looks like a career backup. I'm not taking that dude in the 2nd rd.

A better version of Bridgewater?

I see a lot of a less wild Romo in Garappolo. Strong arm/movement skills.

 

[steelbtexan]

I only have one complaint.


If there is no QB worth taking 1:1 .... There is no QB worth taking in the entire draft. Either you get a franchise guy or you don't.

I like Garapollo a lot. I would be willing to trade back into the 1st rd between 20-26 to pick him. Does that make him a franchise QB? Who knows. I wouldn't have a problem waiting until 2015 to pick a QB.

 

[steelbtexan]

No OT until the 6th??
and I thought I had you on the Robinson bandwagon

I wavered back and forth between Robinson and Clowney. What do you think of the mock? I like Martin a lot too and think he will be there at 3-1. He's a mauler and the thought of Martin and Brown on the left side is very appealing. I also see Ques as a huge upgrade at RT. Just because Kubiak saw Ques as a LG doesn't mean BOB does. Patchan is as talented as any OT in this draft not named Robinson.

 

[steelbtexan]

Not a Garoppolo fan, and I'm not sure how I feel about Clowney. Besides that I like the mock a lot.

What do you not like about Garappolo?

 

[infantrycak]

You wouldn't draft Flacco at 18 or Roethlisberger at 11 or Rodgers at 26

Would it really have been a mistake to have taken any of those guys 1.1? No.

So... no Russell Wilson, No Colin Kaepernick, no Tom Brady...

All three were drafted as backups. 1 is possibly the greatest surprise of NFL history so I don't know why anyone uses him as an example of anything but blind luck.

Also they better be thinking more than "may turn out" or "we need a backup too" with the 2.1. If they take someone at 2.1 I'm going to give them benefit of the doubt that they believe he likely will be a franchise QB because otherwise I think they are screwing the pooch.

 

[thunderkyss]

Would it really have been a mistake to have taken any of those guys 1.1? No.

Was that the question? Or are you just trolling?

 

[infantrycak]

Was that the question? Or are you just trolling?

Is there one of these "?" involved? There you go, answered your own question.

Your assertion I quoted makes no sense as a response to Corrosion unless you are asserting those QBs were not worth being taken 1.1.

 

[thunderkyss]

Is there one of these "?" involved? There you go, answered your own question.

Your assertion I quoted makes no sense as a response to Corrosion unless you are asserting those QBs were not worth being taken 1.1.

No... your question changes the nature of the argument.

No one thought those guys were can't miss franchise QBs, hence they were not worthy. The fact that they turned into franchise QBs is no different than Tom Brady turning into a franchise QB. They are not worthy of the #1 overall if you could get them at 18 or 26.


Duane Brown or Joe Flacco. Would you do that trade again?

 

[infantrycak]

No... your question changes the nature of the argument.

No one thought those guys were can't miss franchise QBs, hence they were not worthy.

No the question and now your follow up shows your inability or unwillingness to understand and respond to what Corrosion was saying, which was:

If there is no QB worth taking 1:1 .... There is no QB worth taking in the entire draft. Either you get a franchise guy or you don't.

Do you see the words "can't miss" in there?

And again, the fact Big Ben did not get drafted until 1.11 does not mean he was not worthy of 1.1. Far more goes into where a player gets drafted than just whether they are worthy.

 

[NCTexan]

What do you not like about Garappolo?

Well, first off, his mechanics are awesome and I do like that about him. But, I am extremely worried about him and phantom pressure. He'll try and duck and weave away from a pass rusher that isn't there. He also seems to have a problem standing in the pocket and delivering a throw when he sees a pass rusher coming.

I'm watching more tape, but here's what I think right now. He doesn't push the field consistently and he threw a lot of balls behind the LOS to 5 yards out. Just didn't see much to get excited about other than his quick release.

 

[beerlover]

There is a higher risk passing on Clowney than selecting him #1 overall. It's not just a safe pick, its a smart pick & sooner the better cause teams will come knocking for chance to move up. So while its a difficult pick (can't go wrong with Robinson, Watkins or Mack) I think sir you got it right!

Try & trade the #1 overall pick now for Russell Wilson, I'll bet there is not one sane Seahawk fan that would make that move. I'm hoping Texan fans will feel the same way about the QB O'Brian selects in this draft couple years from now

Excellent addition in Martin. While most of us have focused on the outside you went inside, well played. Looks like a solid mid second round pick, he has immediate starting potential.

Zumwalt is another outstanding football player I just love his relentless hustle & love of the game, reminds me of Cushing & would make a great pairing & add depth a weak LB position.

Obviously you put a lot of thought into this, but its a weak DT/NT class so your comfortable in thinking McClullers slips this far? He is really tall for a nose tackle 6 ft-7 inches almost 37" long arms, still lifted 27 reps which showcases elite core strength for size. Under achiever but who wasn't in that Tennessee program with so much fluctuation in coaching regimes.

Another special player, good value think your spot on his draft grade too. Slot receiver more slippery than fast. Would push K-mart, maybe little stronger coming in & better route tree.

Like Beau, don't have to sell anybody here on Badger material, intelligent high motor guy.

Patchan is a late round pick, for sure that needs to develop probably as back-up guard & special teams only. you nailed inside already, this guy however will struggle with very little if any impact as NFL OT.

Very late in draft to address secondary. Has nice size, good bloodlines, but sketchy resume & durability concerns.

Yeah, think your missing a couple comp picks in there, not like they will amount to much anyway plus they can't be traded. would like at least mid-level TE & Secondary prospect to complete this amazing draft, nice work SB

 

[thunderkyss]

No the question and now your follow up shows your inability or unwillingness to understand and respond to what Corrosion was saying, which was:



Do you see the words "can't miss" in there?

And again, the fact Big Ben did not get drafted until 1.11 does not mean he was not worthy of 1.1. Far more goes into where a player gets drafted than just whether they are worthy.

Look, if you're one of those guys who will draft a QB #1 overall because you need a QB... fine. Yes, they're all worthy if you're one of those guys.

Not my draft strategy.... but whatever.

 

[steelbtexan]

There is a higher risk passing on Clowney than selecting him #1 overall. It's not just a safe pick, its a smart pick & sooner the better cause teams will come knocking for chance to move up. So while its a difficult pick (can't go wrong with Robinson, Watkins or Mack) I think sir you got it right!

Try & trade the #1 overall pick now for Russell Wilson, I'll bet there is not one sane Seahawk fan that would make that move. I'm hoping Texan fans will feel the same way about the QB O'Brian selects in this draft couple years from now

Excellent addition in Martin. While most of us have focused on the outside you went inside, well played. Looks like a solid mid second round pick, he has immediate starting potential.

Zumwalt is another outstanding football player I just love his relentless hustle & love of the game, reminds me of Cushing & would make a great pairing & add depth a weak LB position.

Obviously you put a lot of thought into this, but its a weak DT/NT class so your comfortable in thinking McClullers slips this far? He is really tall for a nose tackle 6 ft-7 inches almost 37" long arms, still lifted 27 reps which showcases elite core strength for size. Under achiever but who wasn't in that Tennessee program with so much fluctuation in coaching regimes.

Another special player, good value think your spot on his draft grade too. Slot receiver more slippery than fast. Would push K-mart, maybe little stronger coming in & better route tree.

Like Beau, don't have to sell anybody here on Badger material, intelligent high motor guy.

Patchan is a late round pick, for sure that needs to develop probably as back-up guard & special teams only. you nailed inside already, this guy however will struggle with very little if any impact as NFL OT.

Very late in draft to address secondary. Has nice size, good bloodlines, but sketchy resume & durability concerns.

Yeah, think your missing a couple comp picks in there, not like they will amount to much anyway plus they can't be traded. would like at least mid-level TE & Secondary prospect to complete this amazing draft, nice work SB

Thanks,

I see McCullers as a 5 tech that will probably fall to the comp 4th pick, due to the underachiever label. He didn't have much talent around him and spent too much time on the field. Taylor Hart is less of a risk and should also be a fine 5 tech if you wanted to go that route. He should also be available at the spot.

I really like Patchan he's a true talent. Just injury prone. Did you see some of the holes Andre Williams was running through. Patchan also has good feet for pass pro. Ods are that you are correct that he will wash out, but only due to injury.

I wanted to select a CB/S but there wasn't talent available that was head and shoulders above the OL/DL/LB that I selected and my 1st goal in this draft was to finally fix the trenches and find a partner to play along side Cushing.

You cant fix everything that's wrong in 1 draft when you're a 2-14 team. So fixing the OL and front 7 were accomplished in this mock. I cant ask for more. I can only hope Smith does as good a job on draft day. If that's his job.

 

[steelbtexan]

Well, first off, his mechanics are awesome and I do like that about him. But, I am extremely worried about him and phantom pressure. He'll try and duck and weave away from a pass rusher that isn't there. He also seems to have a problem standing in the pocket and delivering a throw when he sees a pass rusher coming.

I'm watching more tape, but here's what I think right now. He doesn't push the field consistently and he threw a lot of balls behind the LOS to 5 yards out. Just didn't see much to get excited about other than his quick release.

I will be honest I only became aware of Garappolo in the East/West game/Sr. Bowl and was very impressed. I went back and watched film on him and I think he's a better version of Romo because he doesn't take unnecessary chances with the ball as evidenced by his 52-9 TD to INT ratio.

As far as the phantom pass rush goes, Mettenberger/Manziel/McCarron/Bortles etc .... suffer from the same issues.

 

[drs23]

Rd.1 Jadeveon -DE/OLB South Carolina,6'5, 266 Lbs, 4.5- It came down to Clowney or Robinson and the thought of pairing Clowney with Watt was to great to turn down. Pairing the explosive Clowney with Watt helps greatly improve the Texans anemic pass rush.

2. Jimmy Garappolo- QB Eastern Illinois, 6'2, 225 Lbs, 4.9. Garappolo has a strong arm/quick release and is a great decision maker. He moves around very well, which is what won me over when it came to 2nd tier prospects like Murray/Mettenberger/Savage.

3. Marcus Martin- C/OG USC, 6'3, 320 Lbs, 5.2, Martin played OG before moving to C last yr. He will start off at OG for a couple of yrs the replace Myers at C., like the Seahawks did with Unger. Martin is a big athletic Mauler who when put next to D.Brown helps solve the 3rd &short/red zone woes. This puts Ques where he belongs at his natural OT position. Martin is every bit as good as the more highly rated Fu'a -Filo. IMHO A steal in the 3rd rd.

4. Jordan Zumwalt- ILB/OLB UCLA 6'4 235, 4.7- Zumwalt is a fast instinctive ILB who's intensity makes him a great pairing with Cushing. He's what the Texans have been missing next o Cushing for yrs. A sure tackler who has good enough speed/instinct to cover the TE. The other great thing about drafting Zumwalt is he played in a pro style 3-4 under Mora at UCLA so there should be less of a learning curve.

4. Daniel McCullers- DE/NT Tennessee, 6'6 352 Lbs, 5.2- McCullers is a huge man who was miscast as a NT in college. Being a huge man he was asked to play too many snaps and wore down as games got into the 4th qter. He's too tall to play NT in the NFL but will make a great 5 tech in RAC's defense. MCullers holds up great against the double teams allowing Cushing, Zumwalt/Clowney/Reed to roam. He' also should make a great pairing with Watt batting down passes. I also considered Taylor Hart here, a big high motor/ athletic guy.

5. Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest, 5'9 193 LBS 4.5, BOB gets his Wes Welker for the Texans offense. Campanaro is a fast/shifty slot WR who ran in the high 4.4's at the combine. He also has great hands. He also can KR/PR. Sounds a lot like Welker too me.

6. Beau Allen- NT Wisconsin, 6'3 333 Lbs, 5.2- Allen is a claasic run stuffing NT. He is strong against double teams and consistently holds up against the run. Allen isn't a pass rusher but has a good 1st step for such a big man. Allen/Powe give the Texans the big NT's that fans have been wanting tor yrs. Finally the NT's will keep Cushing/Zumwalt clean.

6. Matt Patchan- OT/OG Boston College 6'6 302 LBS, 5.0- Patchan was a highly decorated OL coming out of high school. He went to Miami and got hurt, transferred to Boston College and got hurt again in an offseason motorcycle accident. He was finally healthy for his Sr yr and helped pave the way for Andre Williams phenominal yr. Patchan is as gifted as any OL in this draft but has had 2 ACL surgeries in his college career. I really like him and would be willing to trade up into the 5th rd to get him. If he stays healthy you get a 5th rd starter. He's that good, well worth the risk. High character guy.

7. Demetri Goodson- CB Baylor 5'11, 194 Lbs, 4.4- Goodson is a former basketball player who played really well for Art Briles last yr. he's got good speed and can turn his hips and run, an upgrade over McCain as the nickel CB. Since Goodson is new to playing football I chose him at this spot because I think he has the most upside of any of the CB's left on the board. At the very least he will help upgrade a putrid ST's. Plus bringing a talent hometown guy home can never be a bad thing?

This draft fills most of the holes and adds badly needed speed to the team. I would also like to add a speedy 3rd down RB like LaDarius Perkins to the mix but couldn't find a spot for him. Maybe Rick can sign him or George Atkinson III as FA's.

I put a lot of thought into this mock and all feedback would be greatly appreciated. Let the critiques begin.

I'm still leary of Clowney. Will he play to his potential of clown the team that drafts him?

Not too long ago Garappolo was a late round pick and has been rocketing up the boards. What's really changed?

Martin and Zumwalt are great picks. Like both picks, especially Zumwalt.

Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest. Love this pick. Do you think he'll still be available in the 5th? I have doubts about that.

Like the Allen pick. He fit's Rac's system.

Didn't get to watch Patchan really but what I've read reflects your take as well. Decent gamble with possible high return.

Don't have a feel for Goodson but I know you've done your homework.

Overall great effort. If it were to turn out like this I'd be very pleased with most of it and hope Clowney clowns me.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm still leary of Clowney. Will he play to his potential of clown the team that drafts him?

Not too long ago Garappolo was a late round pick and has been rocketing up the boards. What's really changed?

Martin and Zumwalt are great picks. Like both picks, especially Zumwalt.

Micheal Campanaro- WR Wake Forest. Love this pick. Do you think he'll still be available in the 5th? I have doubts about that.

Like the Allen pick. He fit's Rac's system.

Didn't get to watch Patchan really but what I've read reflects your take as well. Decent gamble with possible high return.

Don't have a feel for Goodson but I know you've done your homework.

Overall great effort. If it were to turn out like this I'd be very pleased with most of it and hope Clowney clowns me.

1. Clowney Clowns OT's
2. Garappolo- I didn't know much about him. But I had heard about him and thought he was just another small school guy. After watching him in the East/West game (He was MVP) that earned him a trip to the Sr Bowl (Where he aquitted himself quite well) I did more studying on him and think he's got as much potential as the big 3. Put it this way, What do the big 3 do that Garappolo cant?

1.Arm strength- it's on par with Bortles/Manziel, better than TB.
2.Mobility - He's as mobile as Bortles and TB, less than JM.
3.Decision making- 52-9 even against lesser competition shows me he's a good decision maker. He makes decisions faster than JM/Bortles and is on par with TB.
4. Accuracy- On par with all of the big 3. I think he's more accurate than TB because he hits receivers in stride better. I know Garappolo is more accurate than Bortles.

In short the reason Garappolo ranked so low beforehand and is currently underrated IHMO, is because he went to a small school.

 

[leebigeztx]

No the question and now your follow up shows your inability or unwillingness to understand and respond to what Corrosion was saying, which was:



Do you see the words "can't miss" in there?

And again, the fact Big Ben did not get drafted until 1.11 does not mean he was not worthy of 1.1. Far more goes into where a player gets drafted than just whether they are worthy.

I don't mean to jump into the argument,but ernie accorsi has said a million times that if the deal with sd had fallen thru,they were prepared to take ben #4. I agree with someone who said if you can't take the franchise qb 1st,then there is no franchise qb.Harbaugh moved up in the 2nd rd to get CK. Anyone who tells us they knew Brady would be Brady or wilson would play his way is lying.

 

[leebigeztx]

1. Clowney Clowns OT's
2. Garappolo- I didn't know much about him. But I had heard about him and thought he was just another small school guy. After watching him in the East/West game (He was MVP) that earned him a trip to the Sr Bowl (Where he aquitted himself quite well) I did more studying on him and think he's got as much potential as the big 3. Put it this way, What do the big 3 do that Garappolo cant?

1.Arm strength- it's on par with Bortles/Manziel, better than TB.
2.Mobility - He's as mobile as Bortles and TB, less than JM.
3.Decision making- 52-9 even against lesser competition shows me he's a good decision maker. He makes decisions faster than JM/Bortles and is on par with TB.
4. Accuracy- On par with all of the big 3. I think he's more accurate than TB because he hits receivers in stride better. I know Garappolo is more accurate than Bortles.

In short the reason Garappolo ranked so low beforehand and is currently underrated IHMO, is because he went to a small school.

So why did Big Ben go 9th and could've went 4th and Flacco went 18th if it was small school holding him back? I'm not sure how many games you've watched,but imo,he's case keenum. His pocket awareness is poor and he throws a lot of passes behind the los. His release is top end,his arm is avg at best during games and facing pressure. He falls down on throws when under duress. Carry on

 

[steelbtexan]

So why did Big Ben go 9th and could've went 4th and Flacco went 18th if it was small school holding him back? I'm not sure how many games you've watched,but imo,he's case keenum. His pocket awareness is poor and he throws a lot of passes behind the los. His release is top end,his arm is avg at best during games and facing pressure. He falls down on throws when under duress. Carry on

The 2 all star game and a little bit of tape.

Are you saying his issues are unfixable?

I read reports about the pressure thingy, but I didn't see the issues mentioned very often. Sometimes but not often. He certainly didn't look like Carr. IMHO

 

[beerlover]

So why did Big Ben go 9th and could've went 4th and Flacco went 18th if it was small school holding him back? I'm not sure how many games you've watched,but imo,he's case keenum. His pocket awareness is poor and he throws a lot of passes behind the los. His release is top end,his arm is avg at best during games and facing pressure. He falls down on throws when under duress. Carry on

Under pressure Garappolo does seem to go into panic mode taking his mechanics along with it. otherwise he looks clean in the pocket, assuming there is a pocket. not facing better competition does worry me a bit in his case because in the he will be facing players both bigger & faster. Ben was money in College, hindsight now but Texans should have taken him with 10th pick. Not elusive, but tough, climbs the pocket with excellent awareness & footwork. Flacco always had a gun, size & strength, ironically Texans passed on him too, trading the pick to Baltimore. Would you say both where worth their respective picks if not much, much higher, you could say Steelers & Ravens stole them. Bortles is somewhere in between the two. Not going to steal him with the first overall pick but you could be getting the right guy for a change & that is worth a whole lot Garappolo not so much, just don't see his ceiling as opposed to his floor. Still got to give it to SB for seeking value in a must have position

 

[leebigeztx]

The 2 all star game and a little bit of tape.

Are you saying his issues are unfixable?

I read reports about the pressure thingy, but I didn't see the issues mentioned very often. Sometimes but not often. He certainly didn't look like Carr. IMHO

When you see guys coming out of college with poor pocket presence,they normally have it in nfl also. To me,pocket presence is instincts. Just like pgs in basketball,rb,mlb,and qb, they have to have a high level of natural instincts. Tanneyhill,gabbert,and bradford are a few guys recently who came out that had pocket prsence and pressure issues and they're still there. If tahj boyd didn't run out of as many sacks as he ran into,he would be rated a lot higher. There is something to be said of qbs who get sacked or curl up because they can't feel pressure. Big Ben and Rodgers have great pocket presence even though they get sacked often. They get sacked holding the ball making big plays vs tanneyhill,bradford,and gabbert getting sacked because they don't climb,short step,or slide inside the pocket.

 

[steelbtexan]

Under pressure Garappolo does seem to go into panic mode taking his mechanics along with it. otherwise he looks clean in the pocket, assuming there is a pocket. not facing better competition does worry me a bit in his case because in the he will be facing players both bigger & faster. Ben was money in College, hindsight now but Texans should have taken him with 10th pick. Not elusive, but tough, climbs the pocket with excellent awareness & footwork. Flacco always had a gun, size & strength, ironically Texans passed on him too, trading the pick to Baltimore. Would you say both where worth their respective picks if not much, much higher, you could say Steelers & Ravens stole them. Bortles is somewhere in between the two. Not going to steal him with the first overall pick but you could be getting the right guy for a change & that is worth a whole lot Garappolo not so much, just don't see his ceiling as opposed to his floor. Still got to give it to SB for seeking value in a must have position

Sounds like you prefer a Mettenberger/Savage type pick at 2-1.

 

[steelbtexan]

When you see guys coming out of college with poor pocket presence,they normally have it in nfl also. To me,pocket presence is instincts. Just like pgs in basketball,rb,mlb,and qb, they have to have a high level of natural instincts. Tanneyhill,gabbert,and bradford are a few guys recently who came out that had pocket prsence and pressure issues and they're still there. If tahj boyd didn't run out of as many sacks as he ran into,he would be rated a lot higher. There is something to be said of qbs who get sacked or curl up because they can't feel pressure. Big Ben and Rodgers have great pocket presence even though they get sacked often. They get sacked holding the ball making big plays vs tanneyhill,bradford,and gabbert getting sacked because they don't climb,short step,or slide inside the pocket.

You're probably right.

But for some reason I see a lot of the good Romo in Garappolo.

 

[Texian]

You're probably right.

But for some reason I see a lot of the good Romo in Garappolo.

When I watch the Romo highlight tape I see a lot of Johnny Manziel.

 

[beerlover]

Sounds like you prefer a Mettenberger/Savage type pick at 2-1.

If they where to drop to fair value then yes, Mettenberger 3rd Savage 4th. McCarron will probably go somewhere in round 2 but not sure he is worth more than a 3rd either. Think Texans almost have to take a stand in 1st. If they can trade down great if not suck it up & take their guy

 

[thunderkyss]

If they where to drop to fair value then yes, Mettenberger 3rd Savage 4th. McCarron will probably go somewhere in round 2 but not sure he is worth more than a 3rd either. Think Texans almost have to take a stand in 1st. If they can trade down great if not suck it up & take their guy

So you're saying McCarron & Mettenberger are most likely back ups. Savage is a developmental back up?


I'm not arguing, just trying to figure out what 3rd/4th round means to you.

 

[beerlover]

So you're saying McCarron & Mettenberger are most likely back ups. Savage is a developmental back up?


I'm not arguing, just trying to figure out what 3rd/4th round means to you.

It all depends on the system, coaching, timing of situation & supporting cast. moving forward I don't see either as athleticly gifted as direction league is headed. These are the twilight years/days of Manning & Brady, just as it was for Farve, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkington you name them. Now are the days of speed, athletic prowess, strong arm QB's. Flacco was just the tip of the iceberg, then was Kapernick now Russell Wilson. Next could be Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater, after that its a complete crap shoot, which is why Texans must get the right QB with their first pick, even if they trade down. Personally its not worth risking if he is there. I don't see McCarron being much better than a Dalton or Colt McCoy. Mettenberger like Gabbert can throw the rock but poor pocket presence, gotta be able to move or create time with your feet.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

It all depends on the system, coaching, timing of situation & supporting cast. moving forward I don't see either as athleticly gifted as direction league is headed. These are the twilight years/days of Manning & Brady, just as it was for Farve, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkington you name them. Now are the days of speed, athletic prowess, strong arm QB's. Flacco was just the tip of the iceberg, then was Kapernick now Russell Wilson. Next could be Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater, after that its a complete crap shoot, which is why Texans must get the right QB with their first pick, even if they trade down. Personally its not worth risking if he is there. I don't see McCarron being much better than a Dalton or Colt McCoy. Mettenberger like Gabbert can throw the rock but poor pocket presence, gotta be able to move or create time with your feet.

But this happens every decade or so. The athletic QB is going to make the pocket passer a dinosaur. There was Tarkenton, then there was Staubach and Bradshaw, and then there was Stabler and Joe Theismann, and then there was John Elway and Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair and Steve Young and Donovan McNabb and Mike Vick and every generation, these running QBs are supposed to take over and re-write everything.

But.

Every generation there are Peyton Mannings and Tom Bradys and Dan Marinos and Kenny Andersons and so on and so forth.

Pocket passers aren't going to go out of style. A guy who can read a defense and stand in and complete passes is going to be a success and in general, they're going to be more successful than someone who's more of a runner. The runners are going to be successful when they learn how to be more of a pocket passer (like Elway, like Young, like Cunningham.)

 

[beerlover]

But this happens every decade or so. The athletic QB is going to make the pocket passer a dinosaur. There was Tarkenton, then there was Staubach and Bradshaw, and then there was Stabler and Joe Theismann, and then there was John Elway and Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair and Steve Young and Donovan McNabb and Mike Vick and every generation, these running QBs are supposed to take over and re-write everything.

But.

Every generation there are Peyton Mannings and Tom Bradys and Dan Marinos and Kenny Andersons and so on and so forth.

Pocket passers aren't going to go out of style. A guy who can read a defense and stand in and complete passes is going to be a success and in general, they're going to be more successful than someone who's more of a runner. The runners are going to be successful when they learn how to be more of a pocket passer (like Elway, like Young, like Cunningham.)

let me put it another way, the pocket passer is always evolving into a more athletic specimen because defensive players evolve, bigger, stronger, faster. Just for applicable comparison as prospects, coming into the NFL compare Tom Bradys numbers to Blake Bortles. Doesn't mean Bortles develops into Brady just saying coming into the process he is physically more athletic, bigger, stronger, faster. Both pocket passers right, yet I've seen Blake flushed out of the pocket & take off down field for premium yardage, just nobody talks about it much. Gives him an edge in adaptability department to how the game has evolved with freakishly athletically players every position.

 

[infantrycak]

let me put it another way, the pocket passer is always evolving into a more athletic specimen because defensive players evolve, bigger, stronger, faster. Just for applicable comparison as prospects, coming into the NFL compare Tom Bradys numbers to Blake Bortles. Doesn't mean Bortles develops into Brady just saying coming into the process he is physically more athletic, bigger, stronger, faster. Both pocket passers right, yet I've seen Blake flushed out of the pocket & take off down field for premium yardage, just nobody talks about it much. Gives him an edge in adaptability department to how the game has evolved with freakishly athletically players every position.

I can't discern any pattern at all to the names you are throwing around. Your examples almost seem random rather than proving anything. Brady fell due to looking like a banker more than a QB and Bortles does not look like a more athletic version of the Brady who has actually been successful.

These two sentences in particular make no sense to me:

These are the twilight years/days of Manning & Brady, just as it was for Farve, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkington you name them. Now are the days of speed, athletic prowess, strong arm QB's. Flacco was just the tip of the iceberg, then was Kapernick now Russell Wilson.

Are you trying to throw Staubach into a group of lesser athletes than Flacco, Kaep and Wilson?

I see absolutely zero similarity between Flacco and Kaep other than they are under 30. If you are trying to say people of Manning & Brady skill are dinosaurs in the league and will be beat out by Kaeps and Wilsons well, I'd say join 50 years of people making that prediction and being proven wrong.

 

[thunderkyss]

These are the twilight years/days of Manning & Brady, just as it was for Farve, Staubach, Bradshaw, Tarkington you name them. Now are the days of speed, athletic prowess, strong arm QB's. Flacco was just the tip of the iceberg, then was Kapernick now Russell Wilson.

This is why I think McCarron is so far down the list of this year's QBs. I think the league is looking towards the Kaepernick, RG3, & Wilsons as the way of the future & the media is selling it.

But I don't think Flacco is athletic at all, I think he, Matt Ryan, Bradford, & Stafford are the more traditional drop back passers, like your Bradys & Peytons.... just not as good.

I think there will always be a place for the traditional drop back passer, as long as you have OCs who strategize & plan offensive attacks. It's hard to draw up the protection for the three step, break right, spin 270 degress, then 5 steps to the left pass. & it's hard to develop the OL & skill positions for that guy.

I'd also like to see Kaepernick do what he does today five years from now. McNabb had to get much better from the pocket (& he did) to be able to play for as long as he did.

 

[beerlover]

I can't discern any pattern at all to the names you are throwing around. Your examples almost seem random rather than proving anything. Brady fell due to looking like a banker more than a QB and Bortles does not look like a more athletic version of the Brady who has actually been successful.

These two sentences in particular make no sense to me:



Are you trying to throw Staubach into a group of lesser athletes than Flacco, Kaep and Wilson?

I see absolutely zero similarity between Flacco and Kaep other than they are under 30. If you are trying to say people of Manning & Brady skill are dinosaurs in the league and will be beat out by Kaeps and Wilsons well, I'd say join 50 years of people making that prediction and being proven wrong.

bigger faster stronger, its not rocket science. I do not mean to defer player from yesteryear to today's player only in the sense QB position is constantly evolving just like other positions in the NFL. emphasis on a QB skill set must include better athletic ability or dude must have a howitzer for an arm & mind of Einstein reading defenses to compensate for any athletic deficiency. Chip Kelly likes to put it this way, I'm paraphrasing, a bigger stronger faster guy beats up a smaller, weaker slower guy every day in the NFL.

 

[infantrycak]

bigger faster stronger, its not rocket science. I do not mean to defer player from yesteryear to today's player only in the sense QB position is constantly evolving just like other positions in the NFL. emphasis on a QB skill set must include better athletic ability or dude must have a howitzer for an arm & mind of Einstein reading defenses to compensate for any athletic deficiency. Chip Kelly likes to put it this way, I'm paraphrasing, a bigger stronger faster guy beats up a smaller, weaker slower guy every day in the NFL.

All other things being equal kind of statements are just cheap ways of getting around the fact that all other things are not equal.

QB has always been and will always be dominated by cerebral talent over athletic talent in the NFL.

 

[beerlover]

All other things being equal kind of statements are just cheap ways of getting around the fact that all other things are not equal.

QB has always been and will always be dominated by cerebral talent over athletic talent in the NFL.

I prefer to think of it as an escalation of both going hand in hand. Brains over brawn doesn't work as well as you obviously, stubbornly cling to. You need both :vincepalm:

 

[leebigeztx]

I think people are confusing mobility with athletic talent. Romo,Ben,Luck,and Rodgers are mobile. Favre and Elway were mobile guys too. Peyton,Brady,Schaub are not mobile guys. RG3,CK,Cam,and Wilson are guys who will run more than the mobile guys. With time as the game slows down,you hope those guys become more like mcnabb and win the games from the pocket,but still use their legs to escape when needed.

 

[DocBar]

I think people are confusing mobility with athletic talent. Romo,Ben,Luck,and Rodgers are mobile. Favre and Elway were mobile guys too. Peyton,Brady,Schaub are not mobile guys. RG3,CK,Cam,and Wilson are guys who will run more than the mobile guys. With time as the game slows down,you hope those guys become more like mcnabb and win the games from the pocket,but still use their legs to escape when needed.

Mobile can mean a lot of things. Romo, Ben, Rodgers and Luck scramble to extend plays. but Manning, Brady, Marino, etc. are very mobile in the pocket but don't do a lot of scrambling. Vick, Kap, and Cam are not going to scramble to extend the play, they arer going to tuck the ball and run.

I'm not 100% sure where I put RGIII or Wilson just yet. Probably more as scrambling QB's than running QB's. right now. I think RGIII's days as a running QB are numbered. If they aren't then his carrer likely is. He has the talent to be a great scrambling QB

That's why I categorize them as:
Mobile QB- pocket passers that can elude the rush by stepping up in the pocket or moving around in it.

Scrambling QB: passers that will scramble to extend the play, keeping their eyes downfield to make a play and only tuck it and run as a last resort.

Running QB-Plays in the Read-Option, has a wide variety of plays designed for QB runs, when a play breaks down, automatically tucks the ball and starts acting O.J Simpson in an airport.