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ROUGHING THE PASSER REMAINS CONFUSING

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
These penalties have "helped" determined the final outcome of too many games. Here is a worthwhile reading article that addresses this issue. I found the commentary by former NFL officiating "czars" Pereira and Blandino in the tweet by Kevin Seifert of ESPN especially interesting.
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How to fix the NFL’s confusing roughing the passer rules
The league’s ever expanding rules for roughing the passer have now ruined two games in two weeks. It’s time to rethink them.

By Christian D'Andrea@TrainIsland Updated Sep 24, 2018, 8:13am EDT
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Its getting too centered around the qb imo. The NFL is trying to legislate potential injury out of the position & not only is it impossible to do, its not fair to the defense or any other players on the field either. I also see that superstar treatment coming into play like in the NBA. TB12 gets grazed on the facemask, you can bet that flag is coming out...its hit or miss for every other qb. I get it, these guys are the most important player for each team, but they're still only 1 of 22 out there.

In addition to this, so much of playing defense is intimidation. Hard to intimidate when you can't really get after the most important player on the opposing team...or in this case hit them

just at the right time.....in the right area of their body........in the right way...Its ridiculous.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
These penalties have "helped" determined the final outcome of too many games. Here is a worthwhile reading article that addresses this issue. I found the commentary by former NFL officiating "czars" Pereira and Blandino in the tweet by Kevin Seifert of ESPN especially interesting.
*********************************************************************************

How to fix the NFL’s confusing roughing the passer rules
The league’s ever expanding rules for roughing the passer have now ruined two games in two weeks. It’s time to rethink them.

By Christian D'Andrea@TrainIsland Updated Sep 24, 2018, 8:13am EDT
Roughing the passer/Illegal hands to the face has replaced PI as the best way to rig NFL games
 

gwallaia

Moderator
Staff member
Implement Pro Bowl rules: No blitzing allowed.

To make up for this unfairness to defenses, the rules should be changed to allow the defense 13 players but none of them can ever blitz.

The NFL created this mess and now the game is suffering.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Roughing the passer/Illegal hands to the face has replaced PI as the best way to rig NFL games
I haven't arrived at the point where I believe the fix is in. . .yet. If I ever do get to that point, then I'm out as a fan.

But you're right about those calls being the place to start. And with legalized gambling predicted to be a multi-billion dollar industry, my jaded attitude about humanity makes me wonder if it's just a matter of time.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
I haven't arrived at the point where I believe the fix is in. . .yet. If I ever do get to that point, then I'm out as a fan.

But you're right about those calls being the place to start. And with legalized gambling predicted to be a multi-billion dollar industry, my jaded attitude about humanity makes me wonder if it's just a matter of time.
I don't think the fix is in. I think they're just continually making rules changes (tweaks add up over time) to either improve offense or protect players. Most of the time, those rules are aimed at protecting offensive players, primarily QBs and receivers. So in conjunction with rules intended to improve offensive output, we end up with a crazy product on the field.

As far as a jaded view about humanity, that implies that you still have some level of faith in humanity, no matter how muted. THAT is what I don't get. :D
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I haven't arrived at the point where I believe the fix is in. . .yet. If I ever do get to that point, then I'm out as a fan.

But you're right about those calls being the place to start. And with legalized gambling predicted to be a multi-billion dollar industry, my jaded attitude about humanity makes me wonder if it's just a matter of time.
I'm like you. If i ever get that sense, i'll be checking out like i mostly have for the NBA. Think about it though. For the longest time, the NFL resisted putting a team in Vegas for this very reason...Now we will see the Raiders there in a few years.....That's just crazy to me.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
For the longest time, the NFL resisted putting a team in Vegas for this very reason...Now we will see the Raiders there in a few years.....That's just crazy to me.
That made me think of something. If you go to a Houston-owned property in Vegas, like the Golden Nugget, you can't place bets on Houston teams. At least, you couldn't as of a few years ago. I stayed at the Nugget a few years ago and wanted to place a bet on the Texans. Had to go to a different book and was told that's why. Wonder if that'll change.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't think the fix is in. I think they're just continually making rules changes (tweaks add up over time) to either improve offense or protect players. Most of the time, those rules are aimed at protecting offensive players, primarily QBs and receivers. So in conjunction with rules intended to improve offensive output, we end up with a crazy product on the field.

As far as a jaded view about humanity, that implies that you still have some level of faith in humanity, no matter how muted. THAT is what I don't get. :D
lol! Yep, not gonna' lie. My point of "utter lack of faith in humanity" is slightly delayed due to my ongoing desire to be entertained by pro football. :fingergun:

However, rest assured, that lack of faith is certainly complete in most other areas of human endeavor.

I agree completely about the rules being purposefully slanted toward offensive production, which I believe is a direct result of fantasy football and the continuous struggle to get fans away from their HD TVs and into the actual stadiums.

However, the potential for individual players, coaches, and/or referees to be bought will only increase once legalized gambling is the norm. I will not be shocked when the NFL has it's own Black Sox Scandal at some point.

I'm like you. If i ever get that sense, i'll be checking out like i mostly have for the NBA. Think about it though. For the longest time, the NFL resisted putting a team in Vegas for this very reason...Now we will see the Raiders there in a few years.....That's just crazy to me.
Yep. The optics of having a team in Las Vegas certainly invites the imagination to speculate. I'm like you, I thought it crazy that they allowed greed to dictate putting a team in America's gambling mecca. There is an undeniable lure to that city that human nature will certainly try to exploit.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Implement Pro Bowl rules: No blitzing allowed.

To make up for this unfairness to defenses, the rules should be changed to allow the defense 13 players but none of them can ever blitz.

The NFL created this mess and now the game is suffering.
Interesting idea. With the extra coverage in the backfield the QB has more time to throw, but possibly less open targets. This is the kind of ideas that minor league spring leagues should be testing, and why there actually is a use for minor league football.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Implement Pro Bowl rules: No blitzing allowed.

To make up for this unfairness to defenses, the rules should be changed to allow the defense 13 players but none of them can ever blitz.

The NFL created this mess and now the game is suffering.
I think that's overkill. Just take the skirts off these dudes & let them get hit like every other offensive player gets hit. Hopefully that would force offensive coordinators to come up with better offensive schemes and plays that don't leave their qbs as sitting ducks in the pocket and/or force some of these college teams to develop linemen who can block for more than .8 nano secs in these air raid schemes b/c that's really whats getting these qbs killed these days.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Maybe its time to usher in the 40's era Leather Helmets.....could very well be self-policing or a Dems elf self preservation. Football players have weaponized their helmets with each new upgrade. Football players survived then and they would eventually figure out how to survive today.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Maybe its time to usher in the 40's era Leather Helmets.....could very well be self-policing or a Dems elf self preservation. Football players have weaponized their helmets with each new upgrade. Football players survived then and they would eventually figure out how to survive today.
Take a modern day athletic who has gone through strength training since high school and thru college and he'd wipe out those old athletics from the days of leather helmets. Football players today are taller, heavier, stronger and faster, there is no going back to the old days.

Either some sort of "system" will evolve that will protect the players or it actually will turn into flag football of some sort.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
These judgement calls have just gotten ridiculous and the refs are nowhere close to being consistent with them. Used to be if you took more than 2 steps and hit the QB after the ball was gone, bam, roughing. Simple. Now you can't hit him low, can't hit him high, which I get, except for the part where you still get called for roughing if you barely graze the helmet....unless your Deshaun Watson of course. And you can even do everything prefect to tackle the QB, but don't dare land on the ground the wrong way. WTF?

They took simple and and made it about as complicated as you can get. Hell, we're talking about a league that couldn't figure out what a freaking catch was for several seasons.

JJ Watt gets mauled on damn near every play, no flags. Can't figure out what PI is or isn't, and the challenge rule on that is about the dumbest thing they've ever come up with.

I know plenty of penalties got called back in the day, but you knew they were penalties then. Now, nobody really knows what the damn rules are including the refs. Waaaaay too many games these days having ref controversies. And honestly, it has taken some of the enjoyment out of the game for me.

The in the grasp call on Watson, for his safety, then he gets clobbered on the play anyway, and no flag. Got a hand to the facemask later in that game, no flag. What gives? Brady gets that call but not Watson?

I get trying to protect players the best way you can, but this is a violent sport. It just is. You're not going to legislate the violence out of it. Either play the sport or make it something else.
 

Scooter

Funky
How to fix it? Everyone wearing pads is a football player and going to get hit, hard. The only vulnerable is helmet to helmet violence (over 4ft high) to a receiver (very aggressive punishment) and kicker/punter plant legs because they're simply defenseless. Procedure protection like chop blocks, facemask, block in the back, holding, crack-backs ... these I'm ok with. Getting hit though? Go play baseball, there's a safe and warm seat in the dugout and a nerf ball just in case.

Receivers/Db's fight down the field on every snap, but holding is a convenient first down call that only happens on 3rd downs. In the spirit of protecting players I'm against headhunting as stated above, but similarly the touching rules are broken and need to be thrown out entirely.
 
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Scooter

Funky
JJ Watt gets mauled on damn near every play, no flags.
He's certainly not the only one, but the Shaq/Yao treatment "can't call it every play" is backwards and needs to turn into "I'll call every play until it's not a foul". Want to not call it every play? Start piling on 10yds every down and see if it doesn't get fixed.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
He's certainly not the only one, but the Shaq/Yao treatment "can't call it every play" is backwards and needs to turn into "I'll call every play until it's not a foul". Want to not call it every play? Start piling on 10yds every down and see if it doesn't get fixed.
RIGHT! The players will adjust.
 

Scooter

Funky
Well that was the thought process behind the safegaurds and new rules put in place when hitting the qb..10 years later, defensive players are still trying to adjust.
As made clear in the original post, defensive players still don't know what they're supposed to adjust to because even when they do everything right they're wrong. "Holding" isn't a new concept and hasn't changed in a very long time, most procedure rules haven't. The only way to fix it is for offensive players to go back to defending themselves and playing a full contact sport at every position.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Well, that and the goalposts keep shifting every season for defensive players. They have never had time to adjust before things changed again.
 


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