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Robert Griffin III could be the Texans next quarterback

infantrycak said:
This is not my preferred route. Trying to be optimistic. I do think there is a better shot at reclaiming Griffin than there ever was at starting Hoyer.
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Isn't this kinda like saying water is better for you than turpentine?
 
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JB said:
Isn't this kinda like saying water is better for you than turpentine?
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I know, low bar.

I do differ with some of the questions about his football IQ. I don't think his ability to grasp a system or see the field are lacking so much as his dedication. That's actually a basis for optimism IMO. The former is just about impossible to fix. The latter can switch overnight with a good dose of humbling, which he has had. Whether it will...?
 
infantrycak said:
I know, low bar.

I do question some of the questions about his football IQ. I don't think his ability to grasp a system or see the field are lacking so much as his dedication. That's actually a basis for optimism IMO. The former is just about impossible to fix. The latter can switch overnight with a good dose of humbling, which he has had. Whether it will...?
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This is a valid point... He may have had a bit of arrogance, over confidence, self entitlement... call it what you will. He may have been humbled and accepted that he has to work harder or he may have shifted the blame. Only time will tell... And it's scary when you don't know and have to throw millions and put careers on the line to find out
 
sandman said:
RGIII has 37 NFL starts. His concussions were 33 starts apart and almost 3 calendar years apart. Nuk had his second one in his 34th start, 2nd game of his 3rd season. He is a highly targeted WR with a huge catch radius that constantly puts him in compromising positions. I just don't hear the concern for Nuk that I'm hearing for RGIII.
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Just as you don't hear concern for Hoyer by many. The risk for another concussion is relatively high for RGIII. Having a WR out with a concussion, albeit a productive one, seldom equates to the disruption that occurs when your QB loses time. People can choose to be concerned or not. The risk data speak for themselves.

And, in the case of RGIII, concussion is only one factor of potential concern to add to the established lower limb issues.

Do we really want to start another even more questionable project than those that have preceded him......or for the first time in a long time build on potential with good basics that is already there?
 
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sandman said:
His first concussion was his 5th game as a pro on October 7, 2012. His second concussion was a pre-season game in August 2015. That is almost 3 calendar years apart and 33 regular season games in which he played, not even counting pre-season games in that stretch. No concussions in college. Is that really considered "prone"? Honest question when I look at Hoyer and Hopkins who have had them more frequently.
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I'll refer you to a previous post.
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Research suggests that if someone has already received one concussion, they are 1-2 times more likely to receive a second one. If they've had two concussions, then a third is 2-4 times more likely, and if they've had three concussions, then they are 3-9 times more likely to receive their fourth concussion.
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Hoyer 5 concussions in 42 NFL games.
Hopkins 1 in college and 2 in 48 NFL games.
RGIII 2 in 33 NFL games in ~2 1/2 years of play

He's a running QB which makes him even more likely to be in concussion situations. Having your QB out with concussions is much more worrisome than having a WR with the same problem.

Prone is a funny not totally descript word, but his risk or "proness" is 2-4 times what a non concussed player carries.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Just as you don't hear concern for Hoyer by many. The risk for another concussion is relatively high for RGIII. Having a WR out with a concussion, albeit a productive one, seldom equates to the disruption that occurs when your QB loses time. People can choose to be concerned or not. The risk data speak for themselves.

And, in the case of RGIII, concussion is only one factor of potential concern to add to the established lower limb issues.

Do we really want to start another even more questionable project than those that have preceded him......or for the first time in a long time build on potential with good basics that is already there?
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If you pick up RGIII, then you do it with the intention of turning him into a traditional pocket QB; no way can he survive as a rushing QB for any length of time. I think he has the *arm talent* (sorry, lacking a better term!) to be a traditional passer.
 
robroy72 said:
If you pick up RGIII, then you do it with the intention of turning him into a traditional pocket QB; no way can he survive as a rushing QB for any length of time. I think he has the *arm talent* (sorry, lacking a better term!) to be a traditional passer.
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I think converting RG to a pocket passer is maybe like converting a fast draw old west shooter to another means of defending himself; muscle memory takes over.
 
if we are going to bring in F/a QB's I like TJ yates and Weeden might has well keep it in house
 
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If the Texans sign Robert Griffin III we'll be playing in Super Bowl 51 at NRG Stadium on February 5, 2017. I'd love it to be against the Cowboys. The only question I have is would we become the first team to play in a Super Bowl inside their own stadium if that happens?
 
Im not sure how it would go, but I would be interested to see OB work with rg3.

Like cak/others it's not my preferred route but if we are going to bring in re-treads I'd prefer them to be of the RG3 variety.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
If the Texans sign Robert Griffin III we'll be playing in Super Bowl 51 at NRG Stadium on February 5, 2017. I'd love it to be against the Cowboys. The only question I have is would we become the first team to play in a Super Bowl inside their own stadium if that happens?
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Hangin out with Thorn and going extra on the mangos? Yes, that would make Houston the 1st team to be in a Super Bowl in their own stadium.
 
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robroy72 said:
If you pick up RGIII, then you do it with the intention of turning him into a traditional pocket QB; no way can he survive as a rushing QB for any length of time. I think he has the *arm talent* (sorry, lacking a better term!) to be a traditional passer.
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That's exactly what Washington tried to do. Didn't work worth beans. Now all of a sudden we expect a miraculous turnaround........based on what. And if in the unlikely case that it is to happen, you going to bet it will be in O'Brien's lifetime? It would more likely be another series of years wasted on another Texans QB ill-fated experiment.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
That's exactly what Washington tried to do. Didn't work worth beans. Now all of a sudden we expect a miraculous turnaround........based on what. And if in the unlikely case that it is to happen, you going to bet it will be in O'Brien's lifetime? It would more likely be another series of years wasted on another Texans QB ill-fated experiment.
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I'm basing it on something that Cak referenced and I had in mind from the start. Make him watch Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson. Learn to extend plays while keeping your eyes down field. I have to agree with him and change my tune on a few designed read options to keep the defense honest. Scramble, don't run.
He has a good completion percentage and I think that teaching him the difference between scrambling and running would be much easier than forcing him to be a pocket passer. He can still use his athleticism and instincts, but they are channeled in a different direction, with a different mind set. Keep your eyes downfield, take off running if you see 30 yds of real estate in front of you, but slide or go out of bounds. No fighting for extra yards.
I just don't see how this is such an impossible task, or even all of that difficult. No one has ever tried that with RGIII. It's been either zone-read and pissing contest between Snyder and Shannahan or a coach that would've never given a thought to drafting him.
OB is known for being able to adapt to what a player does well and that's a huge part of why I'd like to kick the tires on him. OB would be like Coach Klein in his heyday. LOL
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Bulls on Parade said:
If the Texans sign Robert Griffin III we'll be playing in Super Bowl 51 at NRG Stadium on February 5, 2017. I'd love it to be against the Cowboys. The only question I have is would we become the first team to play in a Super Bowl inside their own stadium if that happens?
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Wait a minute, this sounds terribly familiar ...

Bulls on Parade said:
When Brian Hoyer leads the Houston Texans to a victory in Super Bowl 50 at Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, California on February 7 I'm not going to be the least bit surprised. I expect the Texans to win their first NFL championship this season.

I'm very excited about Hoyer who I believe will become the best quarterback in franchise history. It's all about winning Super Bowls and I see something truly special in Brian Hoyer that has me thinking that anything is possible. It's time to rally behind the Brian Hoyer era. This is going to be a fun ride.
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... well, you may be nuttier than a fruitcake BoP, but you can also be counted on for consistency. I'm sure you're also very punctual. You may show up places wearing sweatpants and a tophat while holding a spatula for no apparent reason, but you're always there when you say you'll be. Points for that.
 
If the texansare really serious about finding a true franchise qb they need to cover all bases. They need to bring in the best possible FA AND move up far enough to guarantee we get one of Wentz or Lynch in the draft. It's better if the FA has at least some potential as a franchise qb and not some mediocre backup level crap like hoyer and Fitz were. Let there be a three way competition between those two and savage.
 
mussop said:
If the texansare really serious about finding a true franchise qb they need to cover all bases. They need to bring in the best possible FA AND move up far enough to guarantee we get one of Wentz or Lynch in the draft. It's better if the FA has at least some potential as a franchise qb and not some mediocre backup level crap like hoyer and Fitz were. Let there be a three way competition between those two and savage.
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What's your contingency plan if Wentz/Lynch isn't that player/option?
 
DocBar said:
What's your contingency plan if Wentz/Lynch isn't that player/option?
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Mine would be Coker.

Should be completely gettable and I wouldn't be surprised if he's only a few months away from being better than anything Savage will bring.
 
DocBar said:
What's your rational?
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The coaching he's received from Fisher/Kiffin/Saban, the grinder he's been through in the SEC/FBS tourney, and how he's performed when the lights were brightest and late in some of those games. He's been kept generally safe from a playcalling standpoint, but he's been studying pro concepts for years and years now and when the handcuffs have been loosened he's shown he's up for it. He doesn't get rattled in the pocket nearly as much as I've seen from Savage and he responded to some of exactly the same kind of adversity that Savage experienced in school (competition) with flying colors that have paled that of Savage. He doesn't have quite the canon that Savage does, but he's got enough arm and he's markedly a better athlete with the rest of the toolset all around as well, including how he came on as a leader amongst a loaded NFL-esque roster at Alabama.

As far as contingency plans go, I don't think you'll find more interesting than Coker. That's if he doesn't rise too quickly in the next few months.
 
Mollywhopper said:
The coaching he's received from Fisher/Kiffin/Saban, the grinder he's been through in the SEC/FBS tourney, and how he's performed when the lights were brightest and late in some of those games. He's been kept generally safe from a playcalling standpoint, but he's been studying pro concepts for years and years now and when the handcuffs have been loosened he's shown he's up for it. He doesn't get rattled in the pocket nearly as much as I've seen from Savage and he responded to some of exactly the same kind of adversity that Savage experienced in school (competition) with flying colors that have paled that of Savage. He doesn't have quite the canon that Savage does, but he's got enough arm and he's markedly a better athlete with the rest of the toolset all around as well, including how he came on as a leader amongst a loaded NFL-esque roster at Alabama.

As far as contingency plans go, I don't think you'll find more interesting than Coker. That's if he doesn't rise too quickly in the next few months.
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I doubt he rises too quickly. 2nd round "project" to me, at best. Just an opinion. Another is that I trust Savage more.
 
DocBar said:
What's your contingency plan if Wentz/Lynch isn't that player/option?
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I'm not reaching for any other qb. I'm taking the top player on my big board or looking to trade down. I'll get a qb out of the next group. I wouldn't be apposed to trading this year's first to a team for their next years first in a worst case scenario. If you're going to be drafting around the 20s very year you're best chance at getting a top tier qb draft prospect is to have two first round picks for trade chips.
 
The draft is unpredictable. Free agency can be, too, but when it comes to quarterbacks, the best ones usually don't hit free agency. Griffin, who won the Heisman Trophy at Baylor in 2011, is one who lost his starting job with Washington and comes with several warnings. I asked ESPN's John Keim, who has covered Griffin for his entire career, for a scouting report.

Keim: The Redskins did not think Griffin could develop into a drop-back passer, and if that's what Houston is looking for, then I'm not sure why he'd be their guy. Griffin is a hard worker; he's highly competitive in the weight room and he'll put in the offseason work in terms of improving his agility, his arm, etc. But the knock here has always been the film study. While he's a grinder in other areas, no one would describe him that way in terms of film study. Not that he never watches film, but it's not done in the same way as other quarterbacks. It's one reason they love Kirk Cousins.

One problem the Redskins had is that Griffin wouldn't go through his progressions quick enough and that he'd take way too many sacks. Sometimes it was because of the line, and other times it was simply because he waited too long to throw -- or didn't trust what he sees and therefore misses an opportunity. He rarely threw with anticipation.

I think Griffin is smart, but in terms of picking up a complicated offense, I don't think it would happen in one offseason. He was in Jay Gruden's offense for a second season and the hesitation remained and was noticeable during the practices versus Houston and thereafter. Griffin still has a strong arm, he's still athletic, and based on the quarterback play in this league, he will get another shot somewhere. But it will take patience to help him develop, unless they're willing to run a different offense.
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If film study is an issue for Griffin, that would be a big one for Houston. Texans coach Bill O'Brien and offensive coordinator George Godsey put a lot of time into their play-calling and game-planning. O'Brien wants a "football junkie" at the position. Because the offense is a game-plan offense, it requires the quarterback to understand everything he sees and everything that's expected of him on a certain play. It takes film study, and knowing the right way to study film, to be able to do that.
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link
 
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DocBar said:
I doubt he rises too quickly. 2nd round "project" to me, at best. Just an opinion. Another is that I trust Savage more.
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Didn't say he's necessarily a first round contingency. I'd ideally like to land him after that if we can't acquire our first round target QB and get a Zeke Elliott/Corey Coleman/Jason Spriggs/Hunter Henry with pick 1.

Just afraid that after his measurements come in, he interviews well, and he whiteboards like a pro the second might become best case scenario.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Didn't say he's necessarily a first round contingency. I'd ideally like to land him after that if we can't acquire our first round target QB and get a Zeke Elliott/Corey Coleman/Jason Spriggs/Hunter Henry with pick 1.

Just afraid that after his measurements come in, he interviews well, and he whiteboards like a pro the second might become best case scenario.
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I'd be happy with Elliott & Coker, but I think it more likely to see Elliott & Hack and I'd be ok with that too if they made a move for a vet with promise like a Glennon... no more reclamation projects
 
JB said:
I'd be happy with Elliott & Coker, but I think it more likely to see Elliott & Hack and I'd be ok with that too if they made a move for a vet with promise like a Glennon... no more reclamation projects
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I don't buy the Hack/OB lovefest. Not that it isn't a possibility, but the idea that they're destined to end up working together seems a stretch. People thought Chip Kelly was sure to go after Mariota in the draft and that he was a good shout for the Titans job later for the same reasons and those things never seemingly came close to materializing. Could OB have his eyes at least somewhat on Hack, sure, but there are just so many moving parts with where we pick and factoring in other teams interest and whom else OB may like even more ... it just comes off as low hanging fruit mock mentality as much as anything. The NFL isn't a romance novel.

Glennon is interesting, but who knows what he may cost. Maybe not much, I'm just not sure that he's worth giving up anything with the holes we have when the reclamation will be there for the taking asset-free. If we could swing Glennon for a nickel then I guess I'm game.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I don't buy the Hack/OB lovefest. Not that it isn't a possibility, but the idea that they're destined to end up working together seems a stretch. People thought Chip Kelly was sure to go after Mariota in the draft and that he was a good shout for the Titans job later for the same reasons and those things never seemingly came close to materializing. Could OB have his eyes at least somewhat on Hack, sure, but there are just so many moving parts with where we pick and factoring in other teams interest and whom else OB may like even more ... it just comes off as low hanging fruit mock mentality as much as anything. The NFL isn't a romance novel.

Glennon is interesting, but who knows what he may cost. Maybe not much, I'm just not sure that he's worth giving up anything with the holes we have when the reclamation will be there for the taking asset-free. If we could swing Glennon for a nickel then I guess I'm game.
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You're all over the place with this one.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I don't buy the Hack/OB lovefest. Not that it isn't a possibility, but the idea that they're destined to end up working together seems a stretch. People thought Chip Kelly was sure to go after Mariota in the draft and that he was a good shout for the Titans job later for the same reasons and those things never seemingly came close to materializing. Could OB have his eyes at least somewhat on Hack, sure, but there are just so many moving parts with where we pick and factoring in other teams interest and whom else OB may like even more ... it just comes off as low hanging fruit mock mentality as much as anything. The NFL isn't a romance novel.

Glennon is interesting, but who knows what he may cost. Maybe not much, I'm just not sure that he's worth giving up anything with the holes we have when the reclamation will be there for the taking asset-free. If we could swing Glennon for a nickel then I guess I'm game.
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I don't think there is a OB/Hack lovefest either, but I think it more likely he takes Hack than he does Coker... if he waits past the first & drafts a QB at all
 
RG III still is under contract I think for another year in Wash but I think they will cut him this off season or at least every team thinks they will then he will be a Free agent
 
Norg said:
RG III still is under contract I think for another year in Wash but I think they will cut him this off season or at least every team thinks they will then he will be a Free agent
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Captain-Obvious.jpg
 
sandman said:
That's cool. I do believe that OB would need to change something to fit RGIII's style of play. And OB may not be willing to do that. He wants a Type A QB and only Type A QB because it has to be done a certain way that only Type A QB can do. But IMHO it is about RGIII being a Type B QB, not about his intelligence, football or otherwise.
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The offense Bill Walsh ran for Montana was different from that of Steve Young. Thats what a good coach does. Hoodie doesn't ask Brady to throw outside the numbers or outside breaking routes. You get guys and play to the qb strong points. Seattle practice jail breaks and scramble drills with Wilson. He throws deep alot and he doesnt do alot of field reading either.
 
I'm not so concerned about Griffin's performance in Gruden's offense. I have no idea what kind of constraints Gruden put on him or what Griffin was asked to do. I'm also not sold on Gruden as an offense or QB guru. Andy Dalton was much better under Hugh Jackson than he was under Gruden.

It's OB's ability to alter his offense to match player's strengths that make RG intriguing. If you have a square peg, look for a square hole. If all you have is a round hole, don't look for square pegs.

Since I'm snowed in today (thanks a lot, Jonas) I'm going to watch a lot of RGIII games today. And some for Wentz, since everyone seems so high on him.
 
Bill O'Brien mentioning Robert Griffin III (RG3) during his quarterback seminar three summers ago (after RG3's rookie year), just past the 1:00 mark. But really you have to wath the entire thing to get a feel for what he looks for in a quarterback.

 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'd be cautious about being sucked in by highlights produced before his major injuries............impressive, but seldom translate well for the future.
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I understand where you're coming from and I have no expectations for him from the running aspect, other than scrambling behind the LOS. The dude has a pretty nice arm.
 
You will have to literally take Griffin's legs away to make him a pocket passer. It's ingrained behavior and it's the same thing I warned about when he was coming out in the draft.

He's incredibly talented and he's very intelligent. But he's played QB this way for 10+ years. It's not even rational to expect that he can just suddenly decide to change that behavior in one offseason. And even if he did make a conscious effort, once the bullets start flying he will revert to the guy he is. It's instinct. You will literally have to remove that ability from him to get him to stop leaning on it.
 
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