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Revisiting the case for Case

Mr teX

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Notice its the same 2 dudes in here trying to hurry up and poop on the move.....1 of those guy thought Case Keenum was a future HOF in waiting & the texans should've went all in with him..... the other guy swore up and down Blake Bortles and Johnny Manziel had next in the NFL.

The only person we're missing is Lucky chiming in with his usual....

How anyone can crap on this move given the contract situation we have with Mercy is beyond me. Reminds me of that Micheal Caine line from the Dark Knight:

"Some men just want to watch the world burn..." The Texans organization aren't burning enough for y'all yet lol?
 
Mr teX said:
Notice its the same 2 dudes in here trying to hurry up and poop on the move.....1 of those guy thought Case Keenum was a future HOF in waiting & the texans should've went all in with him..... the other guy swore up and down Blake Bortles and Johnny Manziel had next in the NFL.

The only person we're missing is Lucky chiming in with his usual....

How anyone can crap on this move given the contract situation we have with Mercy is beyond me. Reminds me of that Micheal Caine line from the Dark Knight:

"Some men just want to watch the world burn..." The Texans organization aren't burning enough for y'all yet lol?
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When did I ever suggest that Keenum have even a hint of being a HOF?
Don't make sheet up.
 
Mr teX said:
Notice its the same 2 dudes in here trying to hurry up and poop on the move.....1 of those guy thought Case Keenum was a future HOF in waiting & the texans should've went all in with him..... the other guy swore up and down Blake Bortles and Johnny Manziel had next in the NFL.

The only person we're missing is Lucky chiming in with his usual....

How anyone can crap on this move given the contract situation we have with Mercy is beyond me. Reminds me of that Micheal Caine line from the Dark Knight:

"Some men just want to watch the world burn..." The Texans organization aren't burning enough for y'all yet lol?
Click to expand...

I was definitely a Keenum fan and thought the Texans faultered in Kicking him to the street. Funny thing happened along the way.....the Vikings gave him a chance and an offense that worked with his skill-set and he rewarded the Vikings with a NFC Championship game and some amazing wins during that season. I wonder how Texans fans would feel about getting to a AFC Championship game?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I was definitely a Keenum fan and thought the Texans faultered in Kicking him to the street. Funny thing happened along the way.....the Vikings gave him a chance and an offense that worked with his skill-set and he rewarded the Vikings with a NFC Championship game and some amazing wins during that season. I wonder how Texans fans would feel about getting to a AFC Championship game?
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& then promptly released him the following offseason...don't forget that part. Reality is he like alot of guys over the years at that position, caught lighting in a bottle for 1 lucky run & it shouldn't be viewed as anything other than that. Guess we should've picked up Mark Sanchez too since he had a lucky run to an AFCCG early in his career too?
 
Mr teX said:
& then promptly released him the following offseason...don't forget that part. Reality is he like alot of guys over the years at that position, caught lighting in a bottle for 1 lucky run & it shouldn't be viewed as anything other than that. Guess we should've picked up Mark Sanchez too since he had a lucky run to an AFCCG early in his career too?
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What's your point?
 
76Texan said:
What's your point?
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the point is him going on 1 seriously lucky run in 1 place isn't and was actually never any indication that he was anything more than what he was before it here and after it at any of the other now 4 teams he's played for. Insinuating otherwise is laughable.
 
Mr teX said:
the point is him going on 1 seriously lucky run in 1 place isn't and was actually never any indication that he was anything more than what he was before it here and after it at any of the other now 4 teams he's played for. Insinuating otherwise is laughable.
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Insinuating what?
Keenum has nothing to do with the convo here, but I'll play.

Letting him go while he was still under an UDFA contract only to waste it on a 4th round draft pick in Savage was simply a bad move.
Keenum was earning even less than Savage.

Not only that, it led to a series of trade/FA pick ups that led to nowhere.

They could have just stuck with Fitzpatrick and Keenum while looking for a real QB instead of losing an additional draft pick and money on Osweiler.
 
76Texan said:
Insinuating what?
Keenum has nothing to do with the convo here, but I'll play.

Letting him go while he was still under an UDFA contract only to waste it on a 4th round draft pick in Savage was simply a bad move.
Keenum was earning even less than Savage.

Not only that, it led to a series of trade/FA pick ups that led to nowhere.

They could have just stuck with Fitzpatrick and Keenum while looking for a real QB instead of losing an additional draft pick and money on Osweiler.
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You can really only make this argument in hindsight. Fact is, AT THE TIME, Keenum had shown next to nothing under 2 different regimes, Noone really knew what Savage was and at a minimum he deserved as much of a shot as Keenum did ....... and Osweiler was coming off a 5-2 record for a team in the midst of a SB run .....stepping in for a HOF QB to boot.

you seem to hone in on 1 bit of fact (usually money or PFF grades or injury) and block out everything else. It’s the netof moves not just 1 aspect that might be troublesome.
 
TexansBull said:
Separate note -

Had we done that we never would have drafted Deshaun Watson.

Take that as you want. Interesting and depressing at the same time.
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Not necessarily.
If they had extended Keenum with a series of 2 or 3 years, he could have lasted through 2017 or 2018.
The timing could have been good, maybe.
 
Mr teX said:
You can really only make this argument in hindsight. Fact is, AT THE TIME, Keenum had shown next to nothing under 2 different regimes, Noone really knew what Savage was and at a minimum he deserved as much of a shot as Keenum did ....... and Osweiler was coming off a 5-2 record for a team in the midst of a SB run .....stepping in for a HOF QB to boot.
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You're having your cake and eat it, too.
Keenum was playing for the first time for a team in turmoil, no Foster, and a defense that had a poor year.
Osweiler was a 4th year veteran with the same team, a better running game and a defense that ranked 1st in yard allowed and 4th in points against.
 
76Texan said:
You're having your cake and eat it, too.
Keenum was playing for the first time for a team in turmoil, no Foster, and a defense that had a poor year.
Osweiler was a 4th year veteran with the same team, a better running game and a defense that ranked 1st in yard allowed and 4th in points against.
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True but Osweiler also lead Denver to beating NE in what was about to be a loss. That was the one time that season the offense really shined and it was Osweiler at the helm. Thing is on paper Osweiler looked good, a HoF QB just coming off putting a SB winning team together had selected Osweiler to be the heir of that team and he had sat behind another HoF QB. What people also forget is that Denver was matching us dollar for dollar until Osweiler stopped taking their calls so it wasn't like they were trying to push him out the door.
 
76Texan said:
You're having your cake and eat it, too.
Keenum was playing for the first time for a team in turmoil, no Foster, and a defense that had a poor year.
Osweiler was a 4th year veteran with the same team, a better running game and a defense that ranked 1st in yard allowed and 4th in points against.
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none of that changes the facts of the situation tho. Keenum got what 4-5 starts under Kubiak and looked ok to bad. Got plucked by BoB out of a deer blind at the end of 2015 for a few starts & looked about the same. 2 different regimes, same results.
 
:) :ahhaha:
maverick512000 said:
True but Osweiler also lead Denver to beating NE in what was about to be a loss. That was the one time that season the offense really shined and it was Osweiler at the helm. Thing is on paper Osweiler looked good, a HoF QB just coming off putting a SB winning team together had selected Osweiler to be the heir of that team and he had sat behind another HoF QB. What people also forget is that Denver was matching us dollar for dollar until Osweiler stopped taking their calls so it wasn't like they were trying to push him out the door.
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Yeah, but didn't you know QBs taller than 6'5 has very little chance of success?
 
Mr teX said:
none of that changes the facts of the situation tho. Keenum got what 4-5 starts under Kubiak and looked ok to bad. Got plucked by BoB out of a deer blind at the end of 2015 for a few starts & looked about the same. 2 different regimes, same results.
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When did he look bad?
What games?
 
Mr teX said:
& then promptly released him the following offseason...don't forget that part. Reality is he like alot of guys over the years at that position, caught lighting in a bottle for 1 lucky run & it shouldn't be viewed as anything other than that. Guess we should've picked up Mark Sanchez too since he had a lucky run to an AFCCG early in his career too?
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Yes.....don't forget the reality. They cut the affordable, team favorite QB1 who got them to the NFCCG (13-3 / 1-1) for an over-priced Kirk Cousins whose best season was sandwiched between 2 losing seasons. He did get the Vikings to a Divisional game (10-5 / 1-1). I think they knee-jerked in over-paying for Cousins.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Yes.....don't forget the reality. They cut the affordable, team favorite QB1 who got them to the NFCCG (13-3 / 1-1) for an over-priced Kirk Cousins whose best season was sandwiched between 2 losing seasons. He did get the Vikings to a Divisional game (10-5 / 1-1). I think they knee-jerked in over-paying for Cousins.
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In hindsight...yes we can see that. But what he did in that 1 season, everything had to absolutely work out perfect.......& he still needed a ridiculous amount of luck to get his team to that NFCCG. IOW's the stars had to align and it was very unlikely that was going to happen again. He can thank Diggs for that.
 
Mr teX said:
In hindsight...yes we can see that. But what he did in that 1 season, everything had to absolutely work out perfect.......& he still needed a ridiculous amount of luck to get his team to that NFCCG. IOW's the stars had to align and it was very unlikely that was going to happen again. He can thank Diggs for that.
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Ryan Mallett
Tom Savage
Bryan Hoyer
Brock Osweiler

Could've kept Case. He proved to be as capable as those yoyos... heck if you just didn't like the little feller, you could've just kept Fitzpatrick.

Instead we chase pipe dreams. & I think that's the point. Do a better job evaluating talent. What's on your roster & what's on the market. Pimp slap a coach who "knows better" & tell him to do his job.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ryan Mallett
Tom Savage
Bryan Hoyer
Brock Osweiler

Could've kept Case. He proved to be as capable as those yoyos... heck if you just didn't like the little feller, you could've just kept Fitzpatrick.

Instead we chase pipe dreams. & I think that's the point. Do a better job evaluating talent. What's on your roster & what's on the market. Pimp slap a coach who "knows better" & tell him to do his job.
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To be fair those first three were hand picked by the HC and the last one was the best F/A QB on the market that year after said HC was no longer allowed to pick a QB. So yeah if anyone on the Texans could actually evaluate talent things might have been different.
 
Mr teX said:
none of that changes the facts of the situation tho. Keenum got what 4-5 starts under Kubiak and looked ok to bad. Got plucked by BoB out of a deer blind at the end of 2015 for a few starts & looked about the same. 2 different regimes, same results.
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You gotta let your Keenum fetish go.
 
maverick512000 said:
To be fair those first three were hand picked by the HC and the last one was the best F/A QB on the market that year after said HC was no longer allowed to pick a QB. So yeah if anyone on the Texans could actually evaluate talent things might have been different.
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Waste of time, waste of money, waste of draft capital. None of them proved better than Keemun, Yates, or Fitzpatrick.

I understand the need to find a QB. But we had a different starter four years running. That’s desperation.

If B’Ob knew how to build & run an offense he should’ve been building with Keenum, Yates, or Fitz as a placeholder.

Not betting the farm on Hoyer who was nowhere near Fitzpatrick. That was proven & demonstrated. & wouldn’t have been so bad if he wasn’t yanked week freaking 1 before half time.

& Osweiler. Big freak’n contract, never met the man. Don’t get me wrong, I was defending the move based on the situation. But we wouldn’t have been in that position if he’d have worked with Fitz... or Case, or Yates.

They caused too many of their own problems.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ryan Mallett
Tom Savage
Bryan Hoyer
Brock Osweiler

Could've kept Case. He proved to be as capable as those yoyos... heck if you just didn't like the little feller, you could've just kept Fitzpatrick.

Instead we chase pipe dreams. & I think that's the point. Do a better job evaluating talent. What's on your roster & what's on the market. Pimp slap a coach who "knows better" & tell him to do his job.
Click to expand...

but again, this can only be ascertained in hindsight NOW. Keenum hadn't shown to be any great shakes before or after those guys came in and that 1 run he had didn't seem to change the league as whole's opinion about him either. So If it was simply a case of evaluating talent better, then the entire NFL failed not just the Texans. The big thing with him was was he as a small school guy with underwhelming physical gifts going to get a decent shot at becoming a starter. Well, He did....in several places and he didn't show a whole lot...much like the 4 guys we trotted out there in the time span he was bouncing around the league with a new team every year.
 
Mr teX said:
but again, this can only be ascertained in hindsight NOW. Keenum hadn't shown to be any great shakes before or after those guys came in and that 1 run he had didn't seem to change the league as whole's opinion about him either. So If it was simply a case of evaluating talent better, then the entire NFL failed not just the Texans. The big thing with him was was he as a small school guy with underwhelming physical gifts going to get a decent shot at becoming a starter. Well, He did....in several places and he didn't show a whole lot...much like the 4 guys we trotted out there in the time span he was bouncing around the league with a new team every year.
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You’re focusing too much on Keenum. We hyped Mallett & Osweiler to try to make sense of it. But they didn’t show to be special before moving past Keenum & Yates. & I’m throwing Fitzpatrick in there as well. We cut him from a contract richer than he ever should have got to sign Hoyer to an even bigger contract.

O’Brien came in & we couldn’t field a decent offense without Foster.

The point. We had BS QBs on the roster, didn’t need to bring in BS QBs.
 
thunderkyss said:
You’re focusing too much on Keenum. We hyped Mallett & Osweiler to try to make sense of it. But they didn’t show to be special before moving past Keenum & Yates. & I’m throwing Fitzpatrick in there as well. We cut him from a contract richer than he ever should have got to sign Hoyer to an even bigger contract.

O’Brien came in & we couldn’t field a decent offense without Foster.

The point. We had BS QBs on the roster, didn’t need to bring in BS QBs.
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All but 1 of those guys brought in had better physical gifts than Keenum...& the ones that didn't had the experience factor over him. That more than anything is why they were shown preferential treatment. Further if anyone was being hyped it was Keenum. Folks were vying for him to be a starter when we already knew from the previous regime he was not starter material. Mallet and Oz, were largely unknown but Oz at least had shown some promise the year before. Fitz & Hoyer came in and everyone knew what they were.... bridge guys who could do just enough to get you in the playoffs.....which we did with both of them.

I knew Mallet wasn't gonna be &^%$ & didn't care for the pick up. I knew what Hoyer, Fitzpatrick & Keenum were so again no hype from me. I thought Oz could maybe be a decent Schaub-like qb at least. The only guy i was kinda "hyping" was Savage b/c he had the physical tools but we really hadn't seen what he could do yet.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ryan Mallett
Tom Savage
Bryan Hoyer
Brock Osweiler

Could've kept Case. He proved to be as capable as those yoyos... heck if you just didn't like the little feller, you could've just kept Fitzpatrick.

Instead we chase pipe dreams. & I think that's the point. Do a better job evaluating talent. What's on your roster & what's on the market. Pimp slap a coach who "knows better" & tell him to do his job.
Click to expand...
Similar to the OL situation under OBrien, we kept on finding new talent which was worse than the previous talent, whilst giving the coaching a pass.
 
Mr teX said:
All but 1 of those guys brought in had better physical gifts than Keenum...& the ones that didn't had the experience factor over him. That more than anything is why they were shown preferential treatment. Further if anyone was being hyped it was Keenum. Folks were vying for him to be a starter when we already knew from the previous regime he was not starter material. Mallet and Oz, were largely unknown but Oz at least had shown some promise the year before. Fitz & Hoyer came in and everyone knew what they were.... bridge guys who could do just enough to get you in the playoffs.....which we did with both of them.

I knew Mallet wasn't gonna be &^%$ & didn't care for the pick up. I knew what Hoyer, Fitzpatrick & Keenum were so again no hype from me. I thought Oz could maybe be a decent Schaub-like qb at least. The only guy i was kinda "hyping" was Savage b/c he had the physical tools but we really hadn't seen what he could do yet.
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The Broncos were 5-2, not Osweiler.
Did you even look up his numbers in that 5-2 stretch?
His passing yardage was barely better than Keenum, only because he had better blocking.
His TD/INT would have been worse when taking in condideration that Keenum was hit blindsided from behind on one of those.
Also, Keenum averaged a full 2 yards more on the ground and took fewer sacks (19 vs 23) in roughly the same amount of playing time (7 full games).

If there's a guy that caught lightning in a bottle; that was Osweiler.
As a 4th year veteran with a better running game and a killer defense to support him, Osweiler was just a game manager whose weakness the team can hide.

And you were wrong about the perception on Keenum around the league. You simply have an agenda that renders yourself blind as a bat.
If you had followed his career closely; listening to analysts, coaches, players, and fans on various MBs, you wouldn't have to make things up, something you're quite adept at doing. :)
 
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76Texan said:
The Broncos were 5-2, not Osweiler.
Did you even look up his numbers in that 5-2 stretch?
His passing yardage was barely better than Keenum, only because he had better blocking.
His TD/INT would have been worse when taking in condideration that Keenum was hit blindsided from behind on one of those.
Also, Keenum averaged a full 2 yards more on the ground and took fewer sacks (19 vs 23) in roughly the same amount of playing time (7 full games).

If there's a guy that caught lightning in a bottle; that was Osweiler.
As a 4th year veteran with a better running game and a killer defense to support him, Osweiler was just a game manager whose weakness the team can hide.

And you were wrong about the perception on Keenum around the league. You simply have an agenda that renders yourself blind as a bat.
If you had followed his career closely; listening to analysts, coaches, players, and fans on various MBs, you wouldn't have to make things up, something you're quite adept at doing. :)
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Here you go again, excusing away for your boo things.

"Oz was better.... but that was because...."
"Oz's TD/INT would have been worse when taking into consideration Keenum got hit blindsided......."

Lol.

Please bro. I was/am an avid UH football guy. Was especially paying attention to them when Keenum was there & attended more than a few games when he was our qb. I'd had a bead on him & what he would be if he made it to the next level.........long before he got to the Texans...........maybe long before he became your boo thing i don't know. Fact is i don't have to make anything up, The proof is in the pudding. He has played for 6 different teams over his career & that speak louder & clearer about what the league's actual perception of him is. Certainly louder than any MB honk like myself or superfan like you could ever.

But i will not sidetrack the thread any longer.

So.....about that Mercilus restructure.....................
 
Mr teX said:
All but 1 of those guys brought in had better physical gifts than Keenum...& the ones that didn't had the experience factor over him.
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Maybe. However, I remember at the time I said I would have just rolled with Keenam & Yates while we build the team. I didn't like that we signed Fitzpatrick, but after that first season I was ready to build the team with him. Then they cut him & signed Hoyer to a bigger contract. Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

hindsight I feel I was right. That Case had that one magical season... could have been here in Houston & the AFCCG for all we know.
 
thunderkyss said:
Maybe. However, I remember at the time I said I would have just rolled with Keenam & Yates while we build the team. I didn't like that we signed Fitzpatrick, but after that first season I was ready to build the team with him. Then they cut him & signed Hoyer to a bigger contract. Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

hindsight I feel I was right. That Case had that one magical season... could have been here in Houston & the AFCCG for all we know.
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Anyone else wonder what kind of first season Keenum might've had.....had there been a healthy and productive Arian Foster running the ball and a defense that could make crucial stops late in the game.
 
thunderkyss said:
Maybe. However, I remember at the time I said I would have just rolled with Keenam & Yates while we build the team. I didn't like that we signed Fitzpatrick, but after that first season I was ready to build the team with him. Then they cut him & signed Hoyer to a bigger contract. Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

hindsight I feel I was right. That Case had that one magical season... could have been here in Houston & the AFCCG for all we know.
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I have been flagged for getting off topic in the past so I hope this is put where it belongs and I can respond to it without also being flagged.

WTH I will answer your post..
Case is just another great Houston Cougar Qb that never fulfilled his promise once entering the NFL.

I was rooting for him and he did show promise early. Unlike the other former Cougar Qb's, he atleast has maintained a pro career longer then them. Even if he has been relegated to back up duties.

Big numbers for Houston Cougars might mean big bust in the NFL - Page 2 - ESPN
 
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TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
I have been flagged for getting off topic in the past so I hope this is put where it belongs and I can respond to it without also being flagged.

WTH I will answer your post..
Case is just another great Houston Cougar Qb that never fulfilled his promise once entering the NFL.

I was rooting for him and he did show promise early. Unlike the other former Cougar Qb's, he atleast has maintained a pro career longer then them. Even if he has been relegated to back up duties.

Big numbers for Houston Cougars might mean big bust in the NFL - Page 2 - ESPN
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Ok
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Anyone else wonder what kind of first season Keenum might've had.....had there been a healthy and productive Arian Foster running the ball and a defense that could make crucial stops late in the game.
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No. Keenum wasn’t ready. He needed time to be a better QB. Time spent under Bradford and working with Kevin Stefanski made Keenum. I am happy for Keenum and the success he had with Minnesota because Bill O Brien was not going to make him a better QB.
 
TexansBull said:
Bill O Brien was not going to make him a better QB.
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For me, it's not about Keenum being our QB. It's about all the other losers not being our QB.


Build your team first, an environment suited to developing a young QB. Instead, we go throwing good money after bad & bad overpaid QBs got their butts kicked.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Nice cherry pick for a quote of the original post.
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It was a great job by Mr teX of redirecting the conversation from Case-rio to Case Keenum. The latter is completely irrelevant to what’s happening with the Texans today. But hey, let’s waste a bunch of bandwidth on him and not discuss what’s going on with the direction of the team, now.
 
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Lucky said:
It was a great job by Mr teX of redirecting the conversation from Case-rio to Case Keenum. The former is completely irrelevant to what’s happening with the Texans today. But hey, let’s waste a bunch of bandwidth on him and not discuss what’s going on with the direction of the team, now.
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Damn straight.
 
thunderkyss said:
For me, it's not about Keenum being our QB. It's about all the other losers not being our QB.


Build your team first, an environment suited to developing a young QB. Instead, we go throwing good money after bad & bad overpaid QBs got their butts kicked.
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The team was built when OB came in. We were only a QB away. Maybe a player or two else.

The QB took years longer than it should. First it was looking for a post draft ready QB. We’re they looking for value? Then went to the draft , got snaked, did the Oz experiment, and then back to the draft.

All while wasting draft picks on trades. And wasting years on some of the best defensive players and offensive players. Not to mention that OL that OB inherited was pretty good.

But we have done this already.
 
thunderkyss said:
Maybe. However, I remember at the time I said I would have just rolled with Keenam & Yates while we build the team. I didn't like that we signed Fitzpatrick, but after that first season I was ready to build the team with him. Then they cut him & signed Hoyer to a bigger contract. Didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now.

hindsight I feel I was right. That Case had that one magical season... could have been here in Houston & the AFCCG for all we know.
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Btw, I think CK is available again.
Apologies for being off topic.
 
its so interesting what we do at QB. Trade Watson to Miami for butt load of picks (oiled). Then trade for Jimmy G, san fran recoups picks?
 
Mr teX said:
Notice its the same 2 dudes in here trying to hurry up and poop on the move.....1 of those guy thought Case Keenum was a future HOF in waiting & the texans should've went all in with him..... the other guy swore up and down Blake Bortles and Johnny Manziel had next in the NFL.

The only person we're missing is Lucky chiming in with his usual....

How anyone can crap on this move given the contract situation we have with Mercy is beyond me. Reminds me of that Micheal Caine line from the Dark Knight:

"Some men just want to watch the world burn..." The Texans organization aren't burning enough for y'all yet lol?
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I would not be against bring CK back.
Has to be better than Ryan Findlay.🙄
 
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