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Revisiting the 2013/14/15 drafts

VTexan

VTexan

Rookie
so I'm probably going to take a lot of flak for this post but bare with me for a moment to hear me out..

before the game i had been reading predictions about the season and seeing an astonishing amount of '12-4s' and '10-6s' with a majority of people saying that we would make the playoffs. this was particularly surprising to myself as i had felt we had not improved much from last season. my father even walking into this stadium, confident in that we would pull a victory of the chiefs. i had my doubts. i told my father before the season i think we would be very fortunate to finish 8-8.

today we got demolished by the chiefs (put a nice little comeback together but that first half was BRUTAL). but could have it been prevented? most NFL fans agree that your team's success if built from the draft.

hind sight is 20/20 of course but let's take a look at our last 3 draft classes.


2013
1. DeAndre Hopkins (WR--Clemson)
2. D.J. Swearinger (S--South Carolina)
3. Brennan Williams (OT--North Carolina)
3. Sam Montgomery (OLB/DE--LSU)
4. Trevardo Williams (LB/DE--UConn)
6. David Quessenberry (OT/OG--San Jose State)
6. Alan Bonner (WR--Jacksonville State)
6. Chris Jones (DT--Bowling Green State)
6. Ryan Griffin (TE--UConn)

2014

1. Jadeveon Clowney (OLB--South Carolina)
2. Xavier Su'a-Filo (OG--UCLA)
3. C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE--Iowa)
3. Louis Nix (NT--Notre Dame)
4. Tom Savage (QB--Pittsburgh)
6. Jeoffrey Pagan (DE--Alabama)
6. Alfred Blue (RB--LSU)
6. Jay Prosch (FB--Auburn)
7. Andre Hal
7. Lonnie Ballentine (DB--Memphis)

2015:

1. Kevin Johnson (CB-Wake Forest)
2. Benardrick Mckinney (OLB - Miss St)
3. Jaelen Strong (WR - Arizona St)
5. Keith Mumphery (WR - Michigan St)
6. Reshard Cliett (LB - S. Florida)
6. Christian Covington (DT - Rice)
7. Kenny Hilliard (RB, LSU


Starters : 2.0 (Hopkins, Clowney/Fiedorowicz)


It appears from just quick glance that we have neglected skill positions in the higher rounds sans Hopkins. And the players we have selected in higher rounds have been completely underwhelming or straight cut off the team. It is any surprise we have trouble making plays? or finding play makers? To further compound frustrations we are all currently up an arms about benching our QB after the first game of the season. We've had QB issues for years now and the only pick to rectify that is Tom Savage?

This current roster just has a complete lack of talent all around. Yes we have JJ Watt, Hopkins, Brown and Foster. But outside that, it is frankly shocking.


What do ya'll think?
 
thunderkyss said:
Before we go down this road, can you post how many starters came from those drafts across the league?
Click to expand...

starters? that would be tough as I only follow the houston texans. yes it is waaaay to early to grade the 2015 draft class. however i believe to only have 2.. maybe 4 starters if you count clowney defacto blue in 3 draft is a pretty big whiff rate. I'm not talking about pro-bowlers. just starting.
 
VTexan said:
starters? that would be tough as I only follow the houston texans. yes it is waaaay to early to grade the 2015 draft class. however i believe to only have 2.. maybe 4 starters if you count clowney defacto blue in 3 draft is a pretty big whiff rate. I'm not talking about pro-bowlers. just starting.
Click to expand...

How do you know the whiff rate if you don't know what to measure against?
 
Prosch is our starting FB
Given the league I think KJo should be considered a starter for the conversation.
Supposedly X would be starting but for injury.
 
Mollywhopper said:
How do you know the whiff rate if you don't know what to measure against?
Click to expand...

we can argue about whiff % vs other teams or we can analyze what the players we have chosen have done for our team.

infantrycak said:
Prosch is our starting FB
Given the league I think KJo should be considered a starter for the conversation.
Supposedly X would be starting but for injury.
Click to expand...
fair points about prosch. jury still out on kjo since we won't know his snap % by the end of the season but i have hopes for him taking the starting role from JJo in the near future.

everything i have heard about X has been negative. perhaps expectations were too high being picked at 2.1 .
 
VTexan said:
we can argue about whiff % vs other teams or we can analyze what the players we have chosen have done for our team.
Click to expand...

We can analyze our guys, sure. Then how will you know if that measures up to what other players drafted in those years are doing for their teams?
 
VTexan said:
we can argue about whiff % vs other teams or we can analyze what the players we have chosen have done for our team.
Click to expand...

The point is we need to have realistic expectations. Drafting players is extremely difficult and you're going to whiff more than you hit. That's just a fact of NFL life. So we need to compare ourselves to the rest of the league, and if we're worse, that's when we should be concerned.

Also, I think the "low starters" is greatly due to the Texans BPA draft strategy. Corner was obviously not a big need, but they felt KJo was the best guy on the board, and they got him. So far, he looks like a stud!
 
Mollywhopper said:
We can analyze our guys, sure. Then how will you know if that measures up to what other players drafted in those years are doing for their teams?
Click to expand...
No matter how reasonable having a standard to measure a player against is, some will always expect a batter to hit a HR every time he comes to the plate or he's garbage.

I suspect we're talking about similar percentages with draft choices. A good GM might be a .500 hitter in the first round, .300 in the second, .200 in the third and .100 in the later rounds. But you will always hear of favored GMs as ALWAYS hitting and unfavored GMs as rarely or never hitting.
 
infantrycak said:
Prosch is our starting FB
Given the league I think KJo should be considered a starter for the conversation.
Supposedly X would be starting but for injury.
Click to expand...

People still stuck on the 2 CB starters. This kid is going to play a hell of a lot of snaps this season as the #3. In my mind, he is a starter.

And as disappointing as X may be so far, he is better than Adams. As soon as that boot is off, I expect X to be squeezed in between Brown and Jones.
 
Marshall said:
No matter how reasonable having a standard to measure a player against is, some will always expect a batter to hit a HR every time he comes to the plate or he's garbage.

I suspect we're talking about similar percentages with draft choices. A good GM might be a .500 hitter in the first round, .300 in the second, .200 in the third and .100 in the later rounds. But you will always hear of favored GMs as ALWAYS hitting and unfavored GMs as rarely or never hitting.
Click to expand...

I want to know how the rest of the league did in those years, to gauge the draft pool. Getting one starter out of those drafts might be good, if the talent pool was as bad as they were sayin the 2013 draft was.

It also might mean your team sucks if you have multiple starters coming out of talent deficient drafts.
 
Surprised a mod hasn't moved this to draft forum?

Then we can talk more openly without offending the masses :ahhaha:
 
It is what it is, I'm not going to spend time researching. Just looking at those drafts I can tell you the Texans have continued the tradition set by Casserly of horrible drafting in the Smith regime.
 
steelbtexan said:
It is what it is, I'm not going to spend time researching. Just looking at those drafts I can tell you the Texans have continued the tradition set by Casserly of horrible drafting in the Smith regime.
Click to expand...

Facts be damned.

Split up, the unicorn is just over there. We can hem him in with the crick and the gargoyle.
 
infantrycak said:
Facts be damned.

Split up, the unicorn is just over there. We can hem him in with the crick and the gargoyle.
Click to expand...

Yep the Pats/Broncos/Packers/Seahawks/Cards/Boys etc... (You know the good teams) have blown a lot of 2-3rd rd picks in the last 3 drafts. # Research
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep the Pats/Broncos/Packers/Seahawks/Cards/Boys etc... (You know the good teams) have blown a lot of 2-3rd rd picks in the last 3 drafts. # Research
Click to expand...

Funny #research

I can't recall a singe time you have ponied up well, anything.

I've ponied up stats, well and stats and quotes and if you have any response it is akin to "stats lie."
.
C'mon rhetoric boy. Dig in for once. Show something, anything other than rage. Show Ozzie is the definition of great GM on some scale, any scale.
Express yourself:
 
infantrycak said:
Funny #research

I can't recall a singe time you have ponied up well, anything.

I've ponied up stats, well and stats and quotes and if you have any response it is akin to "stats lie."
.
C'mon rhetoric boy. Dig in for once. Show something, anything other than rage. Show Ozzie is the definition of great GM on some scale, any scale.
Express yourself:
Click to expand...

Denver has some ex Texans . Maybe it's a development issue .

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/DEN
 
infantrycak said:
Funny #research

I can't recall a singe time you have ponied up well, anything.

I've ponied up stats, well and stats and quotes and if you have any response it is akin to "stats lie."
.
C'mon rhetoric boy. Dig in for once. Show something, anything other than rage. Show Ozzie is the definition of great GM on some scale, any scale.
Express yourself:
Click to expand...

I know this for a fact, the Texans have gotten very little out of the last 4 drafts. Meanwhile the Seahawks have built their secondary, (Sherman/Thomas/Chancellor) found their MLB and oh somehow that Wilson guy. Packers found Lacy/Cobb/Their starting C. and a couple of secondary pieces. Arizona found their starting LG/RT and an impact WR in John Brown. They also found their starting RB Ellington and my favorite RB in this yrs draft David Johnson. This doesn't even include adding Mathieu and Peterson to their secondary.

I'm doing all of this off of the top of my head. I'm sure there are more examples. Tell me more about the Texans drafts during this time period. Smith is doing a bang up job and I didn't even have to refer to anybody as a boy or talk about penis size etc... to get my point across.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
One common factor in the 'good' teams you mention.... Above average QB play.

The rest is window dressing.
Click to expand...

Funny how you should mention this, the Cards/Seahawks/Broncos have all added their QB's during this 4 yr time frame. Texans?
 
Starters from last 3 drafts
Patriots - 6 (Malcom Brown, Tre' Jackson, Joe Cardona, Bryan Stork, Jamie Collins, Duron Harmon)
Seahawks - 1 (Justin Britt)
Texans - 4 (Kevin Johnson, Jadeveon Clowney, Jay Prosch, DeAndre Hopkins)

Starters from first 3 rounds
Patriots - 3 (Brown, Collins, Harmon)
Seahawks - 1 (Britt)
Texans - 3 (Johnson, Clowney, Hopkins)
 
Other than puffery give a standard. You keep talking smack like you have one. Set it out so anyone can examine it. Let's compare all the teams on the objective steelbtexan standard. Felons per roster, whatever. (J/k)

You have this very defined opinion. Not saying you're right or wrong. Let's check it out.
 
infantrycak said:
Other than puffery give a standard. You keep talking smack like you have one. Set it out so anyone can examine it. Let's compare all the teams on the objective steelbtexan standard.
Click to expand...

I gave you the difference over a 4 yr period. What more do you want?

Bottom line is these other teams in 2010 were in the same shoes as the Texans. They have moved forward and the Texans well not so much. The one thing you cant talk circles around is the Texans record and the Texans ineptness in the draft is a big reason for this. I know you disagree but the W-L record is what it is.

Good night counselor
 
Where?

I asked you for a standard. I guess you don't want to give one. Left it to you even.

And could you be any more childish with the counselor thing?
 
Last edited:
I cant believe how hard our team plays when for the past years our draft classes have been bad and no new blood is coming up u would think sooner or later we are going to implode again


2013
1. DeAndre Hopkins (WR--Clemson)
2. D.J. Swearinger (S--South Carolina)- WAS CUT
3. Brennan Williams (OT--North Carolina) -BUST
3. Sam Montgomery (OLB/DE--LSU) -CUT
4. Trevardo Williams (LB/DE--UConn)-CUT
6. David Quessenberry (OT/OG--San Jose State)-BUST
6. Alan Bonner (WR--Jacksonville State)-CUT
6. Chris Jones (DT--Bowling Green State)-CUT
6. Ryan Griffin (TE--UConn)-JUST went on IR

the 2013 draft is DReadful

2014

1. Jadeveon Clowney (OLB--South Carolina)-Well he started early with is injuries hopefully that's it
2. Xavier Su'a-Filo (OG--UCLA)-Would be the starter if not in the dog House
3. C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE--Iowa)-Ehh
3. Louis Nix (NT--Notre Dame)-CUT
4. Tom Savage (QB--Pittsburgh)-Man the only bright spot IMO sucked he got injuried Again
6. Jeoffrey Pagan (DE--Alabama)-Hes ok
6. Alfred Blue (RB--LSU)- Hes the worst in the NFL right ..????
6. Jay Prosch (FB--Auburn)- Yay a FB he was a ghost in the KC game and obvs couldn't help our RB's get some holes
7. Andre Hal-Good
7. Lonnie Ballentine (DB--Memphis)-Good



2015:

1. Kevin Johnson (CB-Wake Forest)-..???? did he play last week
2. Benardrick Mckinney (OLB - Miss St)-Injury
3. Jaelen Strong (WR - Arizona St)-Decent
5. Keith Mumphery (WR - Michigan St)-...???
6. Reshard Cliett (LB - S. Florida)...????
6. Christian Covington (DT - Rice)...????
7. Kenny Hilliard (RB, LSU...?????

its pretty bad in the past 3 years some bright spots two 7th round secondary guys and a FB
 
steelbtexan said:
I know this for a fact, the Texans have gotten very little out of the last 4 drafts. Meanwhile the Seahawks have built their secondary, (Sherman/Thomas/Chancellor) found their MLB and oh somehow that Wilson guy. Packers found Lacy/Cobb/Their starting C. and a couple of secondary pieces. Arizona found their starting LG/RT and an impact WR in John Brown. They also found their starting RB Ellington and my favorite RB in this yrs draft David Johnson. This doesn't even include adding Mathieu and Peterson to their secondary.

I'm doing all of this off of the top of my head. I'm sure there are more examples. Tell me more about the Texans drafts during this time period. Smith is doing a bang up job and I didn't even have to refer to anybody as a boy or talk about penis size etc... to get my point across.
Click to expand...
The problem with off the top of your head research is selective memory. You remember the wins and forget the losses. USUALLY, you also find that old memory is somewhat distorted to include successes not deserved, like PICKING a JJo rather than trading for him.

Actually doing the research is boring and monotonous which is why we rely on impressions. But that's why the NFL Teams hire guys to do those monotonous and boring things, to get it right rather than working off impressions.

There was a time I would have done it myself, but my health has improved to the point I'm running around doing other things now instead of those monotonous things I was restricted to just a couple of years ago.
 
Marshall said:
The problem with off the top of your head research is selective memory. You remember the wins and forget the losses. USUALLY, you also find that old memory is somewhat distorted to include successes not deserved, like PICKING a JJo rather than trading for him.

Actually doing the research is boring and monotonous which is why we rely on impressions. But that's why the NFL Teams hire guys to do those monotonous and boring things, to get it right rather than working off impressions.

There was a time I would have done it myself, but my health has improved to the point I'm running around doing other things now instead of those monotonous things I was restricted to just a couple of years ago.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean about precious time.

The guys the Texans have hired to do the boring, monotonous things like draft research/prep need to do a better job. Their lack of competency is starting to bleed over to the on the field product. Example: Jeff Adams playing OG.
 
What's even more telling is the lack of attention the oline positions have been given. It's obviously caught up to us. Signing UDFA olinemen isn't the answer
 
Norg said:
I cant believe how hard our team plays when for the past years our draft classes have been bad and no new blood is coming up u would think sooner or later we are going to implode again


2013
1. DeAndre Hopkins (WR--Clemson)
2. D.J. Swearinger (S--South Carolina)- WAS CUT
3. Brennan Williams (OT--North Carolina) -BUST
3. Sam Montgomery (OLB/DE--LSU) -CUT
4. Trevardo Williams (LB/DE--UConn)-CUT
6. David Quessenberry (OT/OG--San Jose State)-BUST
6. Alan Bonner (WR--Jacksonville State)-CUT
6. Chris Jones (DT--Bowling Green State)-CUT
6. Ryan Griffin (TE--UConn)-JUST went on IR

the 2013 draft is DReadful

2014

1. Jadeveon Clowney (OLB--South Carolina)-Well he started early with is injuries hopefully that's it
2. Xavier Su'a-Filo (OG--UCLA)-Would be the starter if not in the dog House
3. C.J. Fiedorowicz (TE--Iowa)-Ehh
3. Louis Nix (NT--Notre Dame)-CUT
4. Tom Savage (QB--Pittsburgh)-Man the only bright spot IMO sucked he got injuried Again
6. Jeoffrey Pagan (DE--Alabama)-Hes ok
6. Alfred Blue (RB--LSU)- Hes the worst in the NFL right ..????
6. Jay Prosch (FB--Auburn)- Yay a FB he was a ghost in the KC game and obvs couldn't help our RB's get some holes
7. Andre Hal-Good
7. Lonnie Ballentine (DB--Memphis)-Good



2015:

1. Kevin Johnson (CB-Wake Forest)-..???? did he play last week
2. Benardrick Mckinney (OLB - Miss St)-Injury
3. Jaelen Strong (WR - Arizona St)-Decent
5. Keith Mumphery (WR - Michigan St)-...???
6. Reshard Cliett (LB - S. Florida)...????
6. Christian Covington (DT - Rice)...????
7. Kenny Hilliard (RB, LSU...?????

its pretty bad in the past 3 years some bright spots two 7th round secondary guys and a FB
Click to expand...
HOU-TEX said:
What's even more telling is the lack of attention the oline positions have been given. It's obviously caught up to us. Signing UDFA olinemen isn't the answer
Click to expand...
I don't know whether my 2014 pick of Matthews would currently be considered a win had Clowney not been injured or if we would be talking about just another BLOWN pick. I'm pretty sure we would be talking about another BLOWN pick if we had taken any of the QBs available that year.
 
steelbtexan said:
Funny how you should mention this, the Cards/Seahawks/Broncos have all added their QB's during this 4 yr time frame. Texans?
Click to expand...

Cards took a flyer on a broken QB
Seahawks have a 3rd rounder at QB
Broncos took a flyer on a broken neck geriatric

Hardly a model to follow
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Cards took a flyer on a broken QB
Seahawks have a 3rd rounder at QB
Broncos took a flyer on a broken neck geriatric

Hardly a model to follow
Click to expand...

Palmer was not broken when he was traded from Oakland.
Wilson- I wouldn't have taken. He was too short and I thought he was more of a scrambler than a stay in the pocket QB. In short I thought he was Johnny Manziel.
Manning- a flyer that myself and many on this MB wanted the Texans to take.

Not taking a risk at the QB position is a model that the Texans org seems to be following. So far that model has failed in the BOB regime.
 
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