goodnews boy
Practice Squad
SESupergenius said:
Bush will not be able to carry the load of an every down back.
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Reggie or Mario ??
- Thread starter BroussardSaint
- Start date
Bush will not be able to carry the load of an every down back.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
That's never been said before.goodnews boy said:Bush will not be able to carry the load of an every down back.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
goodnews boy said:Bush will not be able to carry the load of an every down back.
If you watched USC, it was L. White who was used routinely to run between the tackles, thus setting up the passing game and Bush running outside the tackles. If Bush is "forced" to run between the tackles, independent of whether he splits carries or not, you wonder about him confronting the much faster NFL game with much stronger opposing players.........and how his body will take it......and for how long.........my vote is for Mario in the short AND the long term.
xtruroyaltyx said:
okay, so why do you think it will be Mario, and not Reggie??
TwinSisters
Veteran
CloakNNNdagger said:
I don't think he will ever have to run between the tackles that much. From a Pro Set I don't think Linebackers are going to be able to catch him or contain him, so the defense will have to devote a DB back to him... shorting coverage and possibly stretching the line out a little for some other RB to run between the tackles.
Even in an singleback configuration 4WR running downfield in GO with Reggie moving out for the dump is a defensive killer.
Check out Mike Minter on NFL.com right now, talking about NFC South QBs. Watch Drew Brees work the HB dump with Tomlinson. Bush could be pretty effective right there because a defense will be tempted to burn a coverage man on him alone.
EDIT:
I just watched the Minter on McAllister clip... Minter hails him as a Power back inbetween the tackles kinda guy. So Bush will most likely not need to run between the tackles all that often and will avoid what looks to be the weakest part of his game.
goodnews boy
Practice Squad
DocBar said:
What is a slobberknockin anyways?
South Texan
Waterboy
We have a good back in Davis, and what looks like some talent backing him up.
Kubiack's system doesn't need a "shake and bake" back, we need guys that can make a cut and run like hell downfield.
Last year, our defense was not even close to getting the job done (At times they did a good job in the Red Zone, but I sure don't remember very many 3 and outs).
If Mario lives up to even half the expectations just forcing the opponents to have to account for him will make a huge improvement on the defense overall. Add in D. Ryans and a few others we are well on the way to having a very legitimate defense with probably our biggest question being depth at d-Backs.
The O-line solution worked itself out (hopefully) in later rounds of the draft, looks like we may of picked up some real talent there too that will fit our new system.
After seeing Reggie on Connan O'Brien just before the draft, I think he may not have had the right attitude for us. (Paraphrasing: He expected to be joining a bunch of losers and was going to have to get used to it.) Mario, on the other hand, seems like he has a burning desire to prove himself from day 1.
So basically, I think Mario fits a much bigger need for our team than a running back, even one with Reggie's talent.
And BTW, since we didn't get Bush, I am sincerely glad N.O. did, God knows after Katrina, they need something to be able to cheer about.
Kubiack's system doesn't need a "shake and bake" back, we need guys that can make a cut and run like hell downfield.
Last year, our defense was not even close to getting the job done (At times they did a good job in the Red Zone, but I sure don't remember very many 3 and outs).
If Mario lives up to even half the expectations just forcing the opponents to have to account for him will make a huge improvement on the defense overall. Add in D. Ryans and a few others we are well on the way to having a very legitimate defense with probably our biggest question being depth at d-Backs.
The O-line solution worked itself out (hopefully) in later rounds of the draft, looks like we may of picked up some real talent there too that will fit our new system.
After seeing Reggie on Connan O'Brien just before the draft, I think he may not have had the right attitude for us. (Paraphrasing: He expected to be joining a bunch of losers and was going to have to get used to it.) Mario, on the other hand, seems like he has a burning desire to prove himself from day 1.
So basically, I think Mario fits a much bigger need for our team than a running back, even one with Reggie's talent.
And BTW, since we didn't get Bush, I am sincerely glad N.O. did, God knows after Katrina, they need something to be able to cheer about.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
TwinSisters said:
I agree with your assesment except for one major point. Bush was always blessed by a strong supporting cast, not the least being his OL. The Saints' OL as it now stands is to say the least not stellar. If their OL cannot control the LOS, all bets are off as far as the argument that LB's et al. will not be able to force him between the tackles or contain him in coverage.
TwinSisters
Veteran
CloakNNNdagger said:
Good point... I think. I have no idea how crappy their line is! Never even bothered to look at them much last year. USC have seen a enough of though to be able to call it vastly over rated. Bush was a cut above the college talent and forced defensive lines ( and backfields ) to play with more passive angles of pursuit ( to avoid getting burned... and they still got burned ). This made the line look better compared to other lines with mortal running backs.
Side note: Not that this has anything to do with Mario Williams. This question is a poor attempt to hawk Bush, so that the Saints have something to talk about besides Vick, Smith, and Gruden.
South Texan
Waterboy
How has this thread gone 4 pages without mentioning David Carr??
WHOOPS
WHOOPS
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Another point to ponder in the Bush "supporting cast" category. Leinart's arm was a threat that could spread the D well. Brees has had 3 of 4 of his years in the questionable performance category. If Brees' throwing shoulder is compromised (labrum tear surgery) at least this year or is reinjured, which would not be surprising, then most of the D will be able to focus on Bush. Time will tell, but the Saints and NFL will not be as "kind" to him as was his college experience.
Wolf
100% Texan
I think for the Texans
Mario was the way to go.
For the Saints. I don't thing Bush was the way to go unless McAllister's stays injured and Bennett isn't up to bar (I thought those two looked pretty good ,atleast on paper) .. with Horn and crew at WR.. I thought the Saints were set at skills postion .. Linemen or LB or something else would be the way to go..
YET, no one wanted to trade up to get Bush
Mario versus Bush..hard to figure who will have the impact until the season starts and even that is going to be difficult. why? we will notice when Bush gets the ball, but only way you notice Mario is if he gets a sack.. Behind the scenes, one would have to look at tape and study it IMO. did Mario draw a double team to help Payne or TJ get free? If Mario is consistantly drawing double teams that would be awesome, with weaver,smith, Payne in there, that means DeMeco Ryans is roaming free
as far as who is going to help who the most? Williams for the Texans, we needed talent in an area that didn't have it(dl), the Saints have the talent in the area(RB) and just added more, which there won't be enough footballs to go around (which isn't a bad thing for Saint fans)
Mario was the way to go.
For the Saints. I don't thing Bush was the way to go unless McAllister's stays injured and Bennett isn't up to bar (I thought those two looked pretty good ,atleast on paper) .. with Horn and crew at WR.. I thought the Saints were set at skills postion .. Linemen or LB or something else would be the way to go..
YET, no one wanted to trade up to get Bush
Mario versus Bush..hard to figure who will have the impact until the season starts and even that is going to be difficult. why? we will notice when Bush gets the ball, but only way you notice Mario is if he gets a sack.. Behind the scenes, one would have to look at tape and study it IMO. did Mario draw a double team to help Payne or TJ get free? If Mario is consistantly drawing double teams that would be awesome, with weaver,smith, Payne in there, that means DeMeco Ryans is roaming free
as far as who is going to help who the most? Williams for the Texans, we needed talent in an area that didn't have it(dl), the Saints have the talent in the area(RB) and just added more, which there won't be enough footballs to go around (which isn't a bad thing for Saint fans)
Wolf
100% Texan
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9535037
gives some insights to how the saints will use bush. says alot like USC .a little here and a little there.
gives some insights to how the saints will use bush. says alot like USC .a little here and a little there.
DominickDavisFan76
Waterboy
Mario Williams didnt carry NCSU very far because they werent that good...Reggie Bush on the other hand led his team to a championship game (which they lost) but won the year before, and the year before that.
Last time I checked a RB will always carry a team farther then a DE would.
Last time I checked a RB will always carry a team farther then a DE would.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
DominickDavisFan76 said:
Don't know that I agree with that. In the history of the NFL, very few of the league's leading rushers have won a title the year that they led the league in rushing. IIRC, Emmitt Smith was the first to ever do that. Ever.
I think you need a solid running game but you don't need a great running game or a great running back Most "great" running backs didn't win a championship until they were on the down-side of their careers.
And Bush didn't carry USC to championships. He was just one of several weapons.
I think it all comes down to team needs. Do the Saints REALLY need a runningback? I don't think they do. Now do the Texans REALLY need Mario? F-Yeah! We were last in rushing defense, and we've been looking for good pass rushers since year 1. Once Kubiak took over the reigns, I was like "I think he can put this offense together but our D still sucks big time." Having Mario has really drastically improved our front 7 IMO. We really have a front 7 that can be one of the league's best.
The only way I see Bush contributing over Mario is is the Saints really understand how to utilize him and take some serious pressure off of Joe Horn. If he's a constant threat in the passing game, he can really be a game changer. We know what Mario is going to come in and do. For Reggie, it's all about the coaches finding ways to make him the most dangerous man on the field. Coaching and the "system" plays a big part in Bush's success IMO. But Mario would be the safe bet.
After saying this, it seems like it really goes against the "draft best player available" rule. Williams is a big "need" pick for us, and I'm hoping it all works well for us obviously. But he fills in a need at at what has become a very marquee position in the NFL, while running backs are continually getting devalued. Colts chose Freeny over James. Actually, I can't think of ANY team except for San Diego that would give up a premier DE for a premier RB!
The only way I see Bush contributing over Mario is is the Saints really understand how to utilize him and take some serious pressure off of Joe Horn. If he's a constant threat in the passing game, he can really be a game changer. We know what Mario is going to come in and do. For Reggie, it's all about the coaches finding ways to make him the most dangerous man on the field. Coaching and the "system" plays a big part in Bush's success IMO. But Mario would be the safe bet.
After saying this, it seems like it really goes against the "draft best player available" rule. Williams is a big "need" pick for us, and I'm hoping it all works well for us obviously. But he fills in a need at at what has become a very marquee position in the NFL, while running backs are continually getting devalued. Colts chose Freeny over James. Actually, I can't think of ANY team except for San Diego that would give up a premier DE for a premier RB!
It's like in the cartoons when you get hit and see stars and little birdies circling your head, only worse. That's about as descriptive of that term as I feel safe with on here. Little football players read these things, too.goodnews boy said:What is a slobberknockin anyways?
Look at this from another angle: OPPONENTS supporting casts. IMO, the biggest surprise to RB will be the overall atheleticism of NFL D's. How many times has he had to play against top-notch defenses where a LB or DE could track him down from behind when he makes a cut. I wonder how many opportunities he'll have to make play in space like he did in College.CloakNNNdagger said:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
DocBar said:
.......almost like the CFL where a RB can really put up big numbers in the wider more open field dimensions. Then they come to the NFL and get stuffed into a smaller field with quicker stronger D's.......and they can't do squat. Bush will be playing in the same field dimensions, but with the new caliber of players he's going to be going up against, he will be made to feel like he's playing in a confined 4 x 4 sandbox.........essentially a "you can run, but you can't hide" situation.
DominickDavisFan76 said:
4th, and less than one...... two times, in the same game.... the most important game of the year...... the reason you play college football..... & their leader was on the sideline both times..... how odd.......
What I want to know.... why did Matt Lienart play his senior year?? That's what baffles me...... I don't remember the details, but.... I do recall the coaches expressing the desire to have Lienart return for his senior year, so they would have a chance to win another title.
Reggie was announcing his candidacy for the NFL draft at the end of his Senior year, and Pete Caroll was like, "I wish him all the luck"
I agree completely. Speaking of big numbers in the CFL...Ricky Williams got 6 in his last game. Just saw that headline. No further details.Serves the dope(r) right. And BOY does that sand get6 deep when you have 2,000lbs. of mad defense on your tail. Something about slobberknockin comes to mind.CloakNNNdagger said:
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
To add a little bit to that, that is why RB's get paid less than DE's, they are easier to find and an elite DE will always appear to control a game better than an elite RB IMOThe Pencil Neck said:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
bigbrewster2000 said:
******************
But Bush and his agent are baskinging in their own "self" generated and press mediated and heretofore unproven and likely inflated value................thus, just expect a nice holdout With that said, a no-brainer tells me that a Mario on the field from day one is as "priceless" as a no Bush on the field is "worthless."
That was harsh. Apt, but harsh.CloakNNNdagger said:******************
But Bush and his agent are baskinging in their own "self" generated and press mediated and heretofore unproven and likely inflated value................thus, just expect a nice holdout With that said, a no-brainer tells me that a Mario on the field from day one is as "priceless" as a no Bush on the field is "worthless."
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I find this a silly question. Here's some more.....
Chocolate cake or croissant chocolate bread pudding
Angelina Jolie or Jessica Alba
Shiner Bock or St. Arnold's Amber
Finding 5 $20 bills or 1 $100 bill
A lot of times, answers to questions are just a matter of personal preference between two compelling choices. My second comparison does nothing for me, but for some of you, either one would be just fine.
The Texans needed a pass rushing DE in a 4-3 more than it needed a jitterbug running back when they are going to a system running game. Who will have more of an impact for their respective teams is kind of a silly question. It is quite possible they will both excel in their respective roles.
Chocolate cake or croissant chocolate bread pudding
Angelina Jolie or Jessica Alba
Shiner Bock or St. Arnold's Amber
Finding 5 $20 bills or 1 $100 bill
A lot of times, answers to questions are just a matter of personal preference between two compelling choices. My second comparison does nothing for me, but for some of you, either one would be just fine.
The Texans needed a pass rushing DE in a 4-3 more than it needed a jitterbug running back when they are going to a system running game. Who will have more of an impact for their respective teams is kind of a silly question. It is quite possible they will both excel in their respective roles.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
Chocolate Cake, Jessica Alba, Arnold's, and 5 $20's.
Texans_Chick said:
no in all fairness, that's a very good question.......
I'd bet we can have a thread discussing this one question that will rival all Carr threads put together......
but that's what men do.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Texans_Chick said:
uh......Jessica Alba and the rest don't matter
Looking at their schedule from NFL.com, it's hard to say. They play some tough D's and some weak D's. Too bad they can't play USC's conference, eh?Koolbrz said:
9/10 at Cleveland 12:00 PM CT
09/17 at Green Bay 12:00 PM CT
09/25 Atlanta 7:30 PM CT
10/01 at Carolina 12:00 PM CT
10/08 Tampa Bay 12:00 PM CT
10/15 Philadelphia 12:00 PM CT
BYE
10/29 Baltimore 12:00 PM CT
11/05 at Tampa Bay 12:00 PM CT
11/12 at Pittsburgh 12:00 PM CT
11/19 Cincinnati 12:00 PM CT
11/26 at Atlanta 12:00 PM CT
12/03 San Francisco 12:00 PM CT
12/10 at Dallas 12:00 PM CT
12/17 Washington 12:00 PM CT
12/24 at N.Y. Giants 12:00 PM CT
12/31 Carolina 12:00 PM
R
real
Guest
TK_Gamer said:
Why ?
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
To, TexansChick:
I apologize for my previous comment, but you must understand that i had to. I Had To. I'm 20 and male, and according to science and the wisdom of elders, the combination of the two makes me an immature twit.
I apologize for my previous comment, but you must understand that i had to. I Had To. I'm 20 and male, and according to science and the wisdom of elders, the combination of the two makes me an immature twit.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
PowerfulDragon said:
No need to apologize. It is an appropriate smartazz response to my smartazz way of saying that asking who is going to have a bigger impact for their team is not a question that really matters when the choices are between two favorable choices that have their own appeal.
I'm a St. Arnold's fan myself. I like supporting a local company and they run a nice tailgate which gives them extra ups in my book.