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Pulling the starters is borderline unforgivable...

G

gtexan02

Working?
I know the logic behind it:
Short week. Important divisional game next week. History of injuries. Down by 3+ scores.

But you know what? I don't care. There are 16 games a year in the regular season. And there are only a few epic primetime battles. This happened to be one of those. We basically called the game early in the 4th when we went 4 straight runs and then punted. When we slowed down our huddles presnap. We definitely called it when we pulled our starters and started playing backups.

I know picking up 3 or 4 scores in 1 quarter is next to impossible, but it sure sends a horrible message to our players, our fans, and the nation. Quotes from AJ after the game did not make him sound happy.

Then there's the fact that we will likely face New England in the playoffs if we plan on advancing past the first round. Our starters will have zero confidence because we pulled them at the lowest point. At least give them the opportunity to put up some garbage points to give them some level of confidence. At least give them the time to get additional reps against arguably our greatest competition/threat.

I'm embarrassed to go into work today. I have been talking about this game to all my friends and coworkers here in Boston for the entire year. And we couldn't even finish the game? Why even play the last quarter. Why didn't they just walk off the field. What we did was basically no different.

I can take getting beat. I can take getting beat badly. But tonight I saw something I haven't seen in 2+ years, and that's the loser's attitude. It's taken years to build that winner's culture in Houston and Kubiak risks throwing it all away in the name of self-preservation. Awful.
 
Surreal McCoy said:
Doesn't matter what you call if the players don't execute.
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Yes it does. If it's 3rd down and 8 and you call a 7 yard crossing route?


Pulling the starters is hardly unforgivable. Putting in the backups and calling QB SNEAKS?!?!?! Ridiculous. Throw the damn ball and I'll star myself out ****** *********** * * * ****** * ***** * ******** *********** * ** **** ***** ******* ** **** **** ***** ****!!


They have a monkey on their back. It's not winning the big games. Let's even nickname it "Gorilla Monsoon" because when it rains, it pours!
 
would you have felt better if we had lost by 20ish pts and we had lost any of schaub, aj, od, db, myers, JJ or j-joe etc??

would we have seen you start a thread commending kubiak for not quitting eventhough the game was over? :rolleyes:
 
Maddict5 said:
would you have felt better if we had lost by 20ish pts and we had lost any of schaub, aj, od, db, myers, JJ or j-joe etc??

would we have seen you start a thread commending kubiak for not quitting eventhough the game was over? :rolleyes:
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Straw man argument. Of course you don't want to see players get hurt, but they are paid to play the game. No one got hurt. The conditions weren't dangerous. Lord knows the offense wasn't tired.

Why let them play in the 3rd quarter? Why play them at all if we're already in the playoffs and could wrap up home field advantage with wins over Indy and Minnesota. How far do you want to take it?

We were still int he game in the 4th quarter. Not likely, but mathematically possible.

Like I said in the first sentence. I get the decision. I just think it was a garbage one. Tells me a lot about Kubiak.
 
TimeKiller said:
Yes it does. If it's 3rd down and 8 and you call a 7 yard crossing route?


Pulling the starters is hardly unforgivable. Putting in the backups and calling QB SNEAKS?!?!?! Ridiculous. Throw the damn ball and I'll star myself out ****** *********** * * * ****** * ***** * ******** *********** * ** **** ***** ******* ** **** **** ***** ****!!


They have a monkey on their back. It's not winning the big games. Let's even nickname it "Gorilla Monsoon" because when it rains, it pours!
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To be fair, there were other routes being run...that's the one schaub chose and then Andre didn't break a tackle...

But I can't complain about backups...they produced as many points as the starters...
 
TimeKiller said:
Yes it does. If it's 3rd down and 8 and you call a 7 yard crossing route?


Pulling the starters is hardly unforgivable. Putting in the backups and calling QB SNEAKS?!?!?! Ridiculous. Throw the damn ball and I'll star myself out ****** *********** * * * ****** * ***** * ******** *********** * ** **** ***** ******* ** **** **** ***** ****!!


They have a monkey on their back. It's not winning the big games. Let's even nickname it "Gorilla Monsoon" because when it rains, it pours!
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The play calls for a crossing route to get the first down. It should be up to the receiver run the route properly to get the necessary yardage.
 
gtexan02 said:
Straw man argument. Of course you don't want to see players get hurt, but they are paid to play the game. No one got hurt. The conditions weren't dangerous. Lord knows the offense wasn't tired.

Why let them play in the 3rd quarter? Why play them at all if we're already in the playoffs and could wrap up home field advantage with wins over Indy and Minnesota. How far do you want to take it?

We were still int he game in the 4th quarter. Not likely, but mathematically possible.

Like I said in the first sentence. I get the decision. I just think it was a garbage one. Tells me a lot about Kubiak.
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Tells me he had no faith in his starters. When the first string is flat out embarrassing itself - no argument there, right? - what you do is yank them and put in the second string guys who want to play. Probably should have done it sooner.

So should Wade.

Brady scores first 3 times they get the ball???
 
gtexan02 said:
Straw man argument. Of course you don't want to see players get hurt, but they are paid to play the game. No one got hurt. The conditions weren't dangerous. Lord knows the offense wasn't tired.

Like I said in the first sentence. I get the decision. I just think it was a garbage one. Tells me a lot about Kubiak
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he's smart? he'd rather regroup after an ass whipping with as healthy a squad as possible instead of being that 'rah rah' guy that keeps everyone in to get a few meaningless pts when the pats have let up? the only way to get revenge is to play them again and beat them. only more bad stuff can happen at the stage of the game when he pulled the starters

and even you can see why it makes sense so i dont get why you feel you have to start a thread about it. yes they're paid to play but they're also paid to win. scoring a couple garbage pts in a blowout does nothing to aid that. its big picture time at that stage
 
Maddict5 said:
he's smart? he'd rather regroup after an ass whipping with as healthy a squad as possible instead of being that 'rah rah' guy that keeps everyone in to get a few meaningless pts when the pats have let up? the only way to get revenge is to play them again and beat them. only more bad stuff can happen at the stage of the game when he pulled the starters

and even you can see why it makes sense so i dont get why you feel you have to start a thread about it. yes they're paid to play but they're also paid to win. scoring a couple garbage pts in a blowout does nothing to aid that. its big picture time at that stage
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We pulled our starters before the Patriots, that is just sad.
 
Maddict5 said:
the pats are kinda known for leaving players in during blowouts
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Answer me this. Down 28 points fighting for HFA do u think the patriots, broncos, greenbay or any champion caliber teams pull their starters ? Or do they adjust and spread the field and "try" to make a come back.

That's the different between champions and want to be champions.
 
EllisUnit said:
Did you watch the same game I did ?
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You saw the players executing? Especially on offense? Hmm. You could be on to something. Gary must've told them not to block either of the NE DTs, or to drop catchable balls on crucial downs, and for us to get drive killing penalties, or for Schaub to make wrong reads...
 
EllisUnit said:
Answer me this. Down 28 points fighting for HFA do u think the patriots, broncos, greenbay or any champion caliber teams pull their starters ? Or do they adjust and spread the field and "try" to make a come back.

That's the different between champions and want to be champions.
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Championship teams don't get down by that much in the first place . This is a trend with the Texans when the lights are on .

Oh ... you are not a championship caliber team until you win said championship . The hump is not talent , it's being strong willed .
 
TimeKiller said:
Yes it does. If it's 3rd down and 8 and you call a 7 yard crossing route?


Pulling the starters is hardly unforgivable. Putting in the backups and calling QB SNEAKS?!?!?! Ridiculous. Throw the damn ball and I'll star myself out ****** *********** * * * ****** * ***** * ******** *********** * ** **** ***** ******* ** **** **** ***** ****!!


They have a monkey on their back. It's not winning the big games. Let's even nickname it "Gorilla Monsoon" because when it rains, it pours!
Click to expand...


I don't think the 7 yard cross was the first option
 
Surreal McCoy said:
You saw the players executing? Especially on offense? Hmm. You could be on to something. Gary must've told them not to block either of the NE DTs, or to drop catchable balls on crucial downs, and for us to get drive killing penalties, or for Schaub to make wrong reads...
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Or it could of been AJ lining up at FB to "confuse" the defense and then not attacking 1 on 1 coverage all night. Maybe the 3 consecutive running plays then a punt when down 21. Then some 7 yard slants when we need 10 yards.

If u watched the jacksonville game the whole 4th quarter we went 4 wide and shreaded them, same thing in Detroit. Here we went 4 wide for 1 series and got a TD and then the Offense went back into their 2 WR 1 FB and foster shell. It was a terrible called game we didn't lose purely to bad execution.
 
Kubiak made the right call here, so forget about the old college try and all of that about using all of your timeouts in the last 40 seconds of the game when you are down by multiple TDs, etc. The season is not over but last nights game was over well before we pulled our starters, chances are better than not that we see the Pats again this season but in the playoffs: "Live to fight another day".
 
EllisUnit said:
Or it could of been AJ lining up at FB to "confuse" the defense and then not attacking 1 on 1 coverage all night. Maybe the 3 consecutive running plays then a punt when down 21. Then some 7 yard slants when we need 10 yards.

If u watched the jacksonville game the whole 4th quarter we went 4 wide and shreaded them, same thing in Detroit. Here we went 4 wide for 1 series and got a TD and then the Offense went back into their 2 WR 1 FB and foster shell. It was a terrible called game we didn't lose purely to bad execution.
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Schaub didn't run a 7 yard slant. It's AJ's job to get the distance
 
I actually agree with a lot of what was in the original post. I'm just sooooo tired of the old guard at this point. Brady this....Peyton that from the national media. And Kubiak just prolongs that junk with his limp performances in primetime...
 
That original post was nothing but a whiny little vent from someone who "understands the logic and reasoning behind it", but wants to create a thread to disagree with it anyway????

Put the pacifier back in and STFU.
 
Rey said:
To be fair, there were other routes being run...that's the one schaub chose and then Andre didn't break a tackle...

But I can't complain about backups...they produced as many points as the starters...
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He can't do that anymore. Apparently, going by some of his other recent games, he has regained his speed, etc., but I have not seen him run over anybody in like 3 years. I don't believe he has that anymore. My point is don't throw him the ball and expect him to do things he can no longer do. Course, he was probly the only one open and that, of course, is because he wasn't past the first down marker.
 
Marcus said:
That original post was nothing but a whiny little vent from someone who "understands the logic and reasoning behind it", but wants to create a thread to disagree with it anyway????

Put the pacifier back in and STFU.
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I approve this message
 
I have ZERO problem with us pulling starters.

It was the ONLY smart thing Kubiak did, actually.

I don't want our starters getting I.R.'d in a blowout loss. No way, Jose.
 
GP said:
I have ZERO problem with us pulling starters.

It was the ONLY smart thing Kubiak did, actually.

I don't want our starters getting I.R.'d in a blowout loss. No way, Jose.
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I don't know; it was pretty clever when he had Foster running right into their NT with AJ as his fullback. :toropalm: :choke:
 
Regardless of potential injuries the guys just plain deserved to get benched. Maybe it will light a fire under some of them maybe it won't but I think Gary was as sick of watching them play as most of us were. Pick up the play in these big games or get a little embarrassed and show off your pouty face on the bench.
 
Didn't Gary say Schaub was his QB and he would play the whole game regardless of the score after the Jags game last yr? Guess he changed his mind.
 
The game was over on our opening drive in the second half when we try to establish a running game on the first two plays that put our offense on a 3rd long. I mean, when was the last time in the history of football have a team ever came back from 21 down with the help of their running game?
Did our running game help us came back against the Jax game or Lions? Did Buffalo running game help them came back against the Oilers?
Even if our running game was producing yards there's no way we should be running on our first two plays on that drive down 21.
 
GP said:
I have ZERO problem with us pulling starters.

It was the ONLY smart thing Kubiak did, actually.

I don't want our starters getting I.R.'d in a blowout loss. No way, Jose.
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Agreed. Live to fight another day. Kind of a petulant and whiny rant that seemed to have more of a selfish purpose because the OP didn't want to be embarrassed in front of his colleagues. I bet he would be the first one on here excoriating Kubiak if AJ blew out his knee. :gun:
 
Marcus said:
That original post was nothing but a whiny little vent from someone who "understands the logic and reasoning behind it", but wants to create a thread to disagree with it anyway????

Put the pacifier back in and STFU.
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:lol: The irony of you posting a whiny little rant at my original post isn't lost.
Do me a favor and take your own advice if you don't have anything even remotely related to the topic to add.

Porky said:
Agreed. Live to fight another day. Kind of a petulant and whiny rant that seemed to have more of a selfish purpose because the OP didn't want to be embarrassed in front of his colleagues. I bet he would be the first one on here excoriating Kubiak if AJ blew out his knee. :gun:
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That's a whole lot of speculation with pretty much zero basis. My "rant" has only minimal amount to do with my colleagues. I'm not on the team, nor do I coach the team, nor do I have any inkling of control over the performance we see. So my embarrassment pales in comparison to what the players and coaches should be feeling. My problem comes from the fact that in arguably one of the most highly anticipated games of the season, we couldn't even last until the closing bell. That's pathetic.

My philosophy doesn't flip flop. I won't complain if Kubiak rests his guy once the game is clearly in hand (don't see the reason to have Foster running it 10 times in the last 2 minutes of a 20+ point blowout win). But if we're losing, especially in a nationally televised game in what will be a very important litmus test for our playoff feasibility and we give up after only 75% of the game has been played, that's embarrassing. That's awful.

You play until the final bell. The injury excuse isn't valid. Conditions were good, players were fine, they weren't tired, etc. You play to win the game. That's all. I could just as easily ask "What's the point of playing your starters in the final 2 games when you're 4-10?" After all, they could get hurt. You might hurt your draft position. Etc. But throwing in towel is not the way you create a winner. There's a reason we crumple when the expectations are highest.

Schaub, Kubiak, and co had a chance to go into desperation offense mode. Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference in this game, but if we're down 2 TDs and there's only 5 minutes left in the AFC championship, I bet he's going to wish we had practiced our spread offense a little more. Maybe the reason our team is bad when there's a lot on the line is because we don't have enough experience in those situations. We had a chance to gain some, and instead they chose to wave the "liberty" white flag.
 
EllisUnit said:
They practice these plays in practice, the distance is based on the play call. They don't just say he run out however far u want and then do a slant. Its a timed play.
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They practice plays in practice? Thanks for the breaking news


How do you know that AJ wasnt supposed to run 8 yards before the break? Or maybe 9? You know that Gary called for him to break when he did? AJ wasnt the first option either I dont think
 
EllisUnit said:
They practice these plays in practice, the distance is based on the play call. They don't just say he run out however far u want and then do a slant. Its a timed play.
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Exactly.

AJ ran the right route, you just hope he gets enough separation to get the extra yardage. He normally does, but he didn't. Walter had a 4th down catch knocked to of his hands by the CB's knees (and the CB wasn't trying, it just happened that way).

Watt knocked a fumble into the EZ and the Pats recover for a TD.

KJ couldn't fall on the ball.

Kubiak waited until the 2nd half to play Tate.

We ran AT Wilfork, not away from him.

It was a waste of everybody's time all the way around. It looked like Gary didn't even really come up with an intelligent game plan for this game. He's in that mode of thinking that IF our guys play their hearts out, nobody can stop us even if they know what play is coming at them. He still hasn't learned.

He'll probably pull a Belichick and get ran out of Houston in 4 or 5 years, then go dark and be a sadistic HC for the Colts and win 3 Super Bowls with them. That's how it goes. Guys that don't learn...when they DO learn, they go somewhere else and Shazaam! all of a sudden the light bulb goes on: "Gee, you mean I can exploit a defense COMPLETELY and run up 52 points on them? Regularly???? Wow....cool!"
 
Overreaction thread no.345638

You pull the starters and get ready for next game. No need for anyone to get hurt at that time

See ya in Jan.
 
I hope the players are mad. They deserve to be manipulated into playing angry this next game.

While I am not happy with the game plan by both our coaches, the players are the ones playing the game. They're the ones not falling on a loose ball and then giving up a TD after that. They're the ones not knowing where to line up. Clowning after a big tackle instead of getting back to the huddle and getting ready.

Like I said: The only thing Kubiak did right was to bench them. Kept them healthy for the remainder of our games, sends a message to them to sit down and think about things. WATCH AND LEARN for a second.
 
2012Champs said:
They practice plays in practice? Thanks for the breaking news


How do you know that AJ wasnt supposed to run 8 yards before the break? Or maybe 9? You know that Gary called for him to break when he did? AJ wasnt the first option either I dont think
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The whole point of a slant is get the inside position ona CB with seperation. This why its a time and distance play. Not saying there wasn't other options but 4th and 1 losing by 28 at the 40, why in the hell not go for it ?
 
I'm betting that Andre Johnson ran the route like he was told to.

Just a wild guess. I think he's got this.
 
EllisUnit said:
The whole point of a slant is get the inside position ona CB with seperation. This why its a time and distance play. Not saying there wasn't other options but 4th and 1 losing by 28 at the 40, why in the hell not go for it ?
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Understand the point of the slant. Its time and distance as you have said so why is it so impossible that the execution of the distance could have been off?
 
EllisUnit said:
Just assuming our future HOF wr knows the plays and did what he was asked of him.
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Well I dont really think he is a future HOF yet unless he gets some simpathy votes for just being the best Texans player of all time. But that aside a future hof could possibly be off a yard or two
 
2012Champs said:
Well I dont really think he is a future HOF yet unless he gets some simpathy votes for just being the best Texans player of all time. But that aside a future hof could possibly be off a yard or two
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If he can play 3 or 4 more seasons and get a few more 1000 yard seasons I thing he will be HOF bound
 
This was probably mentioned - but when we're blowing a team out, Kubes says he doesn't want to disrupt Schaub's rhythm.

When we're getting blown out (GB, Pats) it is TJ time.

Has anyone asked him that question in a presser?
 
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