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Pre-Season Sack Responsibility

infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.
 
I agree, I saw a replay of the entire 1st quarter and the Oline was doing a good job, Lundy just didn't pick up the blitz.
 
Lundy cannot block anyone period. I'm just thankful that Morency was quickly put in to shore up that problem. He did an outstanding job stopping anyone coming in.
 
RiotCommander said:
Lundy cannot block anyone period.
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Little early to be making that determination. Blocking is something most RB's have to work on once they hit the NFL and is coachable. They need to get him cut blocking the way Morency was repeatedly.
 
infantrycak said:
Little early to be making that determination. Blocking is something most RB's have to work on once they hit the NFL and is coachable. They need to get him cut blocking the way Morency was repeatedly.
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Guess I should have said "was not able to block anyone". The only time I noticed him stopping anyone was that time he got called for holding. I will have to wait to watch the game again to see if I missed any. :)
 
RiotCommander said:
Lundy cannot block anyone period. I'm just thankful that Morency was quickly put in to shore up that problem. He did an outstanding job stopping anyone coming in.
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I agree. Though not picking up is a common rookie mistake. He just needs some time. Morency looked outstanding though
 
Even for pre-season games, the fact that we've only seen one sack is encouraging. :thumbup
 
infantrycak said:
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.
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True, but there are things Carr may have done to avoid the sack. It looked as if he could have stepped up in the pocket instead running into the defender. We have seen him do this before. Of couse this is easier said than done with the speed in the NFL.
 
Brandyon said:
I agree. Though not picking up is a common rookie mistake. He just needs some time. Morency looked outstanding though
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True, and last season Morency looked not much better than Lundy does now so clearly it can be taught.

Also I think the Texans as a team (and we as fans of that team) tend to be a little over sensative to sacks. It's understandable considering our brief history but one sack in two games is outstanding. I distinctly saw the jitters kick into high gear when Carr took that sack. I got that feeling in the pit of my stomach when it happened. Carr calmed down and kept on going which is what he needs to do. Everybody is going to get sacked and he's going to have to learn that a couple of sacks aren't the end of the world and don't mean (anymore) that 7 or 8 more are coming that day.
 
the wonger need food said:
I'd put this one on Carr for not stepping up. IMO, he ran himself into this sack.
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I saw this comment in your other thread and went back to watch it a couple more times figuring you would restate it here. Lundy got run back right in front of Carr--there was no step up into the pocket available. He tried to get to the side working against the rusher's momentum but didn't get far enough in time. There was zero running into the sack. There will undoubtedly be times when Carr is at fault, but this one isn't an example unless you are of the mindset that the price of gas is his fault also.

Jwwillis said:
True, but there are things Carr may have done to avoid the sack. It looked as if he could have stepped up in the pocket instead running into the defender. We have seen him do this before. Of couse this is easier said than done with the speed in the NFL.
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There was no step forward available--Lundy and the Defender came so far in they were directly in front of Carr. Carr has failed to step up before, but this time it wasn't available.
 
When I talked to Lundy, he said the most important thing for any running back is to be able to pick up the blitz. So he knows and will learn from his mistake.
 
Now, if and when Dominick Davis gets back, lets hope he has picked up on the way Morency is blocking, and takes it to heart. Or was it the buffoons we used to call coaches last year unable to coach that one little aspect of the game? Guess so. Results speak for themselves.

What beats me is we should all be hoping that Carr is the QB to finally take us over the top in the won-loss column. If we are waiting on Sage or another QB to do it, it is going to be a long wait, IMO.
 
infantrycak said:
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.
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Lundy. Lets not label him yet as a guy that cant block, I just dont think he was asked to do it a lot in NCAA.
 
infantrycak said:
I saw this comment in your other thread and went back to watch it a couple more times figuring you would restate it here. Lundy got run back right in front of Carr--there was no step up into the pocket available. He tried to get to the side working against the rusher's momentum but didn't get far enough in time. There was zero running into the sack. There will undoubtedly be times when Carr is at fault, but this one isn't an example unless you are of the mindset that the price of gas is his fault also.



There was no step forward available--Lundy and the Defender came so far in they were directly in front of Carr. Carr has failed to step up before, but this time it wasn't available.
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I would give you some rep for the post CAK, but it says I have to waite. Interesting how some see things that didn't actually happen.
 
I replayed that is slow motion a few times. Carr went back too far. There was clearly a pocket and if Carr had stepped into it then Lundy's block would have been fine. Instear Carr kept going back, Lundy attacked the inside leg of the defender who went outsid and made Lundy look bad. David is going to have to learn to trust the line as much as the runningbacks. Later in the game I saw him step into the pocket a couple of times. Hopefully some of Kubiack's yelling sank in on him.
 
done88 said:
I replayed that is slow motion a few times. Carr went back too far.
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So Carr was supposed to change the design of the play and only drop 5 instead of 7? That's not how it works--it was a 7 step drop play and the play was already broken when his foot hit the 7th step.
 
done88 said:
I replayed that is slow motion a few times. Carr went back too far. There was clearly a pocket and if Carr had stepped into it then Lundy's block would have been fine. Instear Carr kept going back, Lundy attacked the inside leg of the defender who went outsid and made Lundy look bad. David is going to have to learn to trust the line as much as the runningbacks. Later in the game I saw him step into the pocket a couple of times. Hopefully some of Kubiack's yelling sank in on him.
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This is an example of a desperate argument. No point in arguing with desperation.
 
The mother of all Carr threads has been created ..... why do y'all keep doing it to yourselves? It's like the new model Terminator has just landed in a blaze of glory....

Two pages - heading for six - arguing about one sack.

Re freaking diculous...
 
aj. said:
The mother of all Carr threads has been created ..... why do y'all keep doing it to yourselves? It's like a new Terminator has been created all over again.

Two pages - heading for six - arguing about one sack.

Re freaking diculous...
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Silly me, now I am regretting it--I thought this sack was going to be an easy one to get things started.
 
aj. said:
The mother of all Carr threads has been created ..... why do y'all keep doing it to yourselves? It's like the new model Terminator has just landed in a blaze of glory....

Two pages - heading for six - arguing about one sack.

Re freaking diculous...
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right on.
 
infantrycak said:
Silly me, now I am regretting it--I thought this sack was going to be an easy one to get things started.
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I see a pocket for him to step up into. I think Kubiak yelled at him on the sideline after this play, so I'm guessing that he saw the same thing.
 
the wonger need food said:
I see a pocket for him to step up into.
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Yeah, if he can hurdle the LB who is directly between him and it.

I think Kubiak yelled at him on the sideline after this play, so I'm guessing that he saw the same thing.
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This is made up BS. The telecast doesn't cut to the sideline after that play showing any discussion between Carr and Kubiak. It replays the sack and then goes straight to the screen play. The only glimpse you get at all is in passing as the camera tracks Lundy coming off the field after the screen and Carr is standing next to Kubiak who is already turning away and not saying anything.
 
even if the pocket is up and to the right, the point is he could have easily stepped up, to put Lundy between him and the defender again.

But he definitely didn't walk into this blitz....... I'm certain of that. & he shouldn't be expected to do something do things because someone else made a mistake. Had he stepped up, that would have been a great play. As it stands, Lundy put David in a bad position.
 
infantrycak said:
Yeah, if he can hurdle the LB who is directly between him and it.



This is made up BS. The telecast doesn't cut to the sideline after that play showing any discussion between Carr and Kubiak. It replays the sack and then goes straight to the screen play. The only glimpse you get at all is in passing as the camera tracks Lundy coming off the field after the screen and Carr is standing next to Kubiak who is already turning away and not saying anything.
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I see what you're saying am changing my vote to Lundy. The LB is right in front of him by the time his back foot plants. That's not to say that he couldn't have avoided it if he would have shuffled left and up, but that's asking a lot, especially of a QB that has never really had any pocket presence.
 
For all those that can't do anything but find fault with Carr's every move, why don't you go root for another team? Carr is our starting QB & will be as long as he's healthy. Get over yourselves & get used to it!

And now, I give you the nutcracker dance. :bananasplit: :thud:
 
infantrycak said:
Yeah, if he can hurdle the LB who is directly between him and it.



This is made up BS. The telecast doesn't cut to the sideline after that play showing any discussion between Carr and Kubiak. It replays the sack and then goes straight to the screen play. The only glimpse you get at all is in passing as the camera tracks Lundy coming off the field after the screen and Carr is standing next to Kubiak who is already turning away and not saying anything.
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http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/08/carr_gets_earful_from_kubiak.html

Carr gets earful from Kubiak
Wow! Kubiak berated Carr when the offense came off the field after its first series. Carr was sacked for a 14-yard loss when Lundy failed to pick up linebacker Pia Tinoisamoa. Running backs coach Chick Harris wasn't as rough on Lundy when he reached the sideline. After all, Lundy's just a rookie.

Kubiak was on Carr BEFORE he reached the sideline. They were still in deep discussion when the Rams had their first offensive play.
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Vinny said:
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/08/carr_gets_earful_from_kubiak.html
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Well that's nice and all, but Carr didn't come off the field after the sack, it was after the next play and McClain has no idea what the yelling was about so it might have been about any of the plays in the series--if all I saw was a heated discussion after that series I would bet it was about not hitting a receiver down field at some point rather than about the sack. Kubiak mentioned that problem in his presser--"He has to get the ball in a couple of situations to a few receivers." He is also exagerating since the small bit you get to see in the game has Kubiak turning to walk away as the team is still coming off the field from the screen play before the punt so it wasn't "still" going on all the way to the Rams' possession.
 
thunderkyss said:
even if the pocket is up and to the right, the point is he could have easily stepped up, to put Lundy between him and the defender again.

But he definitely didn't walk into this blitz....... I'm certain of that. & he shouldn't be expected to do something do things because someone else made a mistake. Had he stepped up, that would have been a great play. As it stands, Lundy put David in a bad position.
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Can you imagine this statment coming from a hall of fame QB?

"You can't expect me to make a play if someone on my team makes a mistake."

Kubiak:

"I told David that the Rams have an aggressive defense, and when they come after us, he's got to make those plays," Kubiak said. "I felt there were seven or eight times when we could have made plays.

"I was disappointed in some things early, but he battled back. He knows I'm just trying to make him better."
 
Jwwillis said:
," Kubiak said. "I felt there were seven or eight times when we could have made plays.

"I was disappointed in some things early, but he battled back. He knows I'm just trying to make him better."
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If you go to his presser artical, the seven or eight times seem to have been different than what he did. In other words it's not that he didn't make a play, but that he could have made bigger/better plays. Big difference between no play and a better play. We need him to see/hit the big ones and that is a confidence thing and I think that will come. I suspect that he is fighting off some of the crap coaching that he had that said "Only do this" and he isn't used/confident yet in just winging it if it's there.
 
Jwwillis said:
Can you imagine this statment coming from a hall of fame QB?

"You can't expect me to make a play if someone on my team makes a mistake."

Kubiak:

"I told David that the Rams have an aggressive defense, and when they come after us, he's got to make those plays," Kubiak said. "I felt there were seven or eight times when we could have made plays.

"I was disappointed in some things early, but he battled back. He knows I'm just trying to make him better."
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As true as that may be, we can't blame David for that sack...... it was all Lundy.
 
infantrycak said:
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.
Click to expand...

Kubiak doesn't, "put this one squarely on Lundy" Does his opinion count?

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better.”

Thunderkyss:

"As true as that may be, we can't blame David for that sack...... it was all Lundy."

Kubiak and I are obviously not one of the "we".
 
edo783 said:
If you go to his presser artical, the seven or eight times seem to have been different than what he did. In other words it's not that he didn't make a play, but that he could have made bigger/better plays. Big difference between no play and a better play. We need him to see/hit the big ones and that is a confidence thing and I think that will come. I suspect that he is fighting off some of the crap coaching that he had that said "Only do this" and he isn't used/confident yet in just winging it if it's there.
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Kubiak:

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better."

I think maybe your wrong, one of those 7 or 8 WAS that play.
 
Jwwillis said:
Kubiak doesn't, "put this one squarely on Lundy" Does his opinion count?

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better.”
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So David could have gotten the ball out during his drop?--interesting comment. I still don't see that paragraph as saying primary responsibility for the sack was on Carr. Does primary vs. squarely solve the issue for you or are you really saying most of the fault for that sack was on Carr?
 
infantrycak said:
So David could have gotten the ball out during his drop?--interesting comment. I still don't see that paragraph as saying primary responsibility for the sack was on Carr. Does primary vs. squarely solve the issue for you or are you really saying most of the fault for that sack was on Carr?
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Im saying blame is shared on a good team.
 
Wow just wow. It was one sack. Both guys (Lundy & Carr) could have done a little different/better. Not a big deal, that's what preseason is for. Both with be coached to fix this in the future.
 
RTP2110 said:
Wow just wow. It was one sack. Both guys (Lundy & Carr) could have done a little different/better. Not a big deal, that's what preseason is for. Both with be coached to fix this in the future.
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I am simply replying to a thread titled "Sack Responsibility"
 
Jwwillis said:
I am simply replying to a thread titled "Sack Responsibility"
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Sorry, I wasn't directing that post to you in particular. Just to that fact that as aj said, we have 2 pages going on 6 about 1 sack.
 
Jwwillis said:
Im saying blame is shared on a good team.
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Good point. My bad for saying squarely instead of primarily. Maybe in the future we can reduce the haggling by looking for the person most at fault.
 
infantrycak said:
Good point. My bad for saying squarely instead of primarily. Maybe in the future we can reduce the haggling by looking for the person most at fault.
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In that case I would say Lundy. His holding call followed by poor blocking on the sack killed that drive. Maybe we can put this to rest now. :stirpot:
 
mamoo said:
When I talked to Lundy, he said the most important thing for any running back is to be able to pick up the blitz. So he knows and will learn from his mistake.
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I'm glad we are talking about this. I don't want this to be an Achilles heel for Lundy. Or else our opponents will take advangte of it when he's on the field and Carr will pay for it! :(

Great that he has competion from Morency. Maybe he can show Lundy how it's done! :)
 
lundy has had several sub par blocking assingnments, cook blocks but doesnt block anything, morency looks like he has improved drasticly with runnng as well as blocking. but unless daniels can play fb and pass block, we seriously need to pick someone up, even if we gotta spend a draft pick to do it. come on guys its not like this is the first time we have had trouble with non blocking backs. do I need to remind you why wells wasnt starter material? how bout even davis? we havent had a pass blocking back in our history.the line can stop all but the blitzing lb'ers off the edge, only a roll out or a blocking back is gonna give carr the 4 seconds he needs.
 
Jwwillis said:
Kubiak:

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better."

I think maybe your wrong, one of those 7 or 8 WAS that play.
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He's saying the same thing I said....... there are things David could've done to avoid the sack...... but the sack will go against Lundy....
 
I have to wait until I watch the replay tonight because I actually didn't see the game televised, but If Kubiak is yelling at Carr then fantastic, because that shows that Carr can respond to this type of coaching because he went out and led a solid drive for a TD.
 
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