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Possible Cap Casualties
- Thread starter TexanBacker93
- Start date
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Runner said:
Very true. They might look to keep 9 if they draft 2, but I didn't even count when I posted that. Although I was thinking that they would end up with Mangold, Setterstrom, and Eslinger. I see them drafting one of those guys. Well, I'd like to see them draft one. If they also draft someone like Winston that would give them 2 rookie linemen. Sign Bentley. Keep Pitts, Wand, Weigert, McKinney, and Hodgden. That leaves Washington, Weary, Wade, Walter (say those names 5 times fast) , and Brown on the outs. If they stay with 9 it would be either Washington because of his flexibilty or Wade because of the contract.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
AustinJB said:Are you serious? Seth Wand? The same guy that gave up 12.5 sacks in 2004. I know he only had two this past yr. but he didn't start any games...I don't think.
I don't necessarily dislike Wand, but I would definately rather see Pitts and/or Wade at OT.
Pitts? The same guy that gave up 15.5 sacks in 2002 and then went to 5.5 in 2003. Maybe Wand can contribute and improve.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Plus, I believe some of the sacks given to the tackles are from the inside pocket collapsing and Carr flushing into the outside rush. At least I know I've seen that happen. Whether they give that sack to Pitts or Wade or Wand I don't know.
Texans Horror
All Pro
TexanBacker93 said:
I like the Texans picking up Winston, but just to add to the discussion, I don't think he would play much his first year due to his knee injury. It is for the same reason that I think he will fall in the draft and the Texans could pick him up pretty cheap.
I see them doing their best to get Bentley, but I don't think they will do much to draft on the offensive line this year, the reasoning being that coaching will pick up a lot of what was lost, and that we have lots of holes to fill.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
TexanBacker93 said:
If you add up the sacks from Stats, Inc. they do not come to the total on the season so they are not forcing attribution for every sack onto the OL. Unfortunately, they do not break down who was responsible--RB, TE, QB--for the non-OL sacks.
Texans Horror
All Pro
Runner said:
I've said several times before that I think/hope that Wand starts at LT. My prediction is that Pitts will join him at guard and that, as the season progresses, they will become a very stout side. My line prediction for next year, from left to right, is Wand, Pitts, Bentley, Weary, and Weigert. In 07, they bring in Winston at RT.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Runner said:
Wand will never play LT over Pitts, he might get a shot at RT if we don't bring in anyone else in the offseason to play there, but with Wade's contract I'm not sure they'd play Wand over Wade either.
oso said:
By the time the season starts he should be almost if not all the way over his knee injury, and I do hope that concern is enough to drop him to #33 where we can get him. I think he can definitely beat out Wade/Wand/whoever else for at least the RT spot at the start of the year.
I hope they do go after Bentley hard, and I think they will look at OLine some in the draft since there are so many good ones out there and it is definitely a need of ours, although the coaching should help improve our current guys. I'd love to see us sign Bentley and draft Winston and Mangold, that would improve our OLine so much.
MorKnolle said:
I've been wrong before - heck, I said repeatedly during last training camp that "Riley was a downgrade of Wand and would never start in front of him".
In my defense, I was only half wrong with that one - this half: would never start in front of him
Contrary to popular thought, Pitts does have weaknesses. One of which is playing a team game on the o-line. It is telling that Pitts was never asked to double team even elite defensive ends from his guard position, but as soon as he was moved to tackle Brown was given the responsibility to "watch Pitts's back" on inside rushes. This in addition to the tight end help he got in some games.
MorKnolle said:
This comment still scares me. Why don't we just list the players by position, sort by salary, and skip training camp?
Frankly - and I'm taking another flyer here - I wouldn't be surprised to see Wade cut. I think he is so unsuited to the scheme the Texans will use that his salary will be dead space even if he is on the team, so cutting him just adds another $1.6M to what is already dead space. Nothing against Wade; I think he would be a good player for another team that suits his style better and would be picked up immediately if we do cut him.
And that brought us back to the original topic of this thread!
Texans Horror
All Pro
MorKnolle said:
True, but if I remember correctly, even Wand played only during special teams for about a year while he "learned" the line. Is this just the old regime being too conservative? I don't know, but with a knee injury, I know the longer you can stay off it, the better it will heal, so playing Winston only some of the downs and giving him a chance to pick up the game would be beneficial.
wags said:
Therefore he is the best tackle on the team? That doesn't necessarily follow.
The goal is to field the synergistically best o-line we can, not put Pitts at his best position. Wand/Pitts is a solid, young, healthy left side. Pitts/(Brown or McKinney) is not as good. We can use our free agent picks to shore up the center and RT positions and get the line fixed quicker by going back to our 2004 left side rather than create an additional requirement for a left guard.
A brief summary of many threads that list my points why Wand will surprise people next season:
1) Wand has the speed, quickness and agility to play left tackle in the (assumed) Texans scheme. His weakness is in technique, and the new staff is capable of teaching that.
2) Wand is one of the best run blockers on the team, and the running game is a very important part of our offense. Just because run blocking gets ignored on most discussions about the o-line on this board doesnt make it any less important.
3) Pitts made vast strides between his first and second year at left tackle Wand could easily do the same. If Pitts was not given a chance to play and improve his second year, he might not even be on the team any more, much less be the popular choice for best lineman on the team.
4) I trust the new coaches are better than the old ones, and will teach a coordinated team offense, not a bunch of one-on-one stuff. Wand played one-on-one in pass protection against all defensive ends last year, which was very poor scheming by the coaches. They certainly didnt require the same from Pitts this year, even though they were playing a stunted pass offense. For instance, the only two people Ive seen go one on one with Freeney game after game were Pace and Wand. And Seth Wand is no Orlando Pace.
5) A lot of the perception of Wand comes from the stuff posted last year, like replace the LT and the line will be good and the o-line is the root of all our problems. Well this past year has shown the fallacy of the first statement, and we as fans have realized this past season that not all sacks are directly applicable to the o-line.
6) Wands strengths when he came to the team included a hard work ethic and the willingness to learn. With a good coaching staff these can be leveraged to fix his weaknesses: he does work out like a maniac (recall last off-season Capers had to kick him out of the weight room after marathon sessions because Capers was afraid he was going to hurt himself). Also, the new coaches can use his willingness to learn to teach him to fix his technique. After all we condemn other players for not putting in the time and not fixing their bad habits. Shouldnt we credit the players who do?
7) He has something to prove. Nothing like a PO'd attitude to get your game up.
Thats my reasoning.
MorKnolle
All Pro
oso said:
It was a mixture of a conservative coaching regime and the fact that Wand was not 1st round-quality talent. If we draft Winston and someone that is currently on the team is more prepared to start at RT for the early part of next year I have no problems with them starting over Winston until he is physcially and mentally ready to play over them, but I think he's good and smart enough and we don't have anyone that talented that will keep him on the bench for very long at all. Winston also has the added luxury of being able to play OG for us too if we decide to put him there for the first few games of his career so he can get some significant playing time while not being at OT, while Ferguson, for instance, is basically only really suited to play LT.
Also, back to your OLine prediction, if we have that personnel group in I think it would go more like: Pitts, Wiegert, Bentley, Weary, Wand. The Texans sound like they are pretty certain that Pitts is going to play OT for them, and I think they are pretty certain he is their LT unless they go after a guy like D'Brick or Winston to seriously compete for that spot. I don't think they'll move Pitts back to OG and put Wand at LT, maybe bump Pitts to RT if a newcomer beats him out for LT but that's it.
S
SILVER VADER
Guest
SPIT-FIRE DRAGON MASTER,YOU HEARD ANY IDLE ****-CHAT,ABOUT CARR GOING TO THE RAIDERS,FOR 1ST RD PICKPowerfulDragon said:
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
MorKnolle said:
On your o-line prediction I agree except for the Bentley part. If we brought him in we should play him at guard, I think Hodgdon did well his rookie season and should improve in his sophmore season. So the line would be more solid. Nothing against Weigert but I think Bentley and Hodgdon provide better potential.
I think Pitts will have to beat Wand out for the LT spot. Wand went one on one with everyone he faced while Pitts had help. Not knocking the guy but this kinda puts them on a more level playing field. Because it begs the question how would Wand had performed had he had help. However I do agree that both these guys should stay at the tackle position.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Runner said:
I still agree that by pairing up a couple of player cuts they save money. Restructuring McKinney and cutting Wade can save money. Cutting Coleman and Walker will still cost a little, but it's eased a little.
As far as who plays, I have faith that the new regime will play the best players that give the team a chance to win. That's why I think if Wade or Walker can't start they might as well get rid of them.
MorKnolle said:
It is very interesting (to me anyway) that you pick Weary over Brown. Do you care to elaborate on your reasoning? Weary was written off by the previous coaching staff until the end of last year - until it came down to playing him or Wand. I'm interested in what other people think of his performance when he got a little playing time.
Note: believe me when I say that Pendry writing him off carries little weight with me.
dat_boy_yec said:
It's too bad that Hodgdon got hurt so soon before we got to see him come all the way up to NFL game speed. He might be exactly the type of player we'll need on the o-line with our system - mobile and strong enough.
I do hope this injury thing is a fluke and not a portent of things to come...
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
Runner said:
It's obvious that Weary is better than Brown. How many times have you heard Weary's name during the time he played, I didn't. To me that means he's not a penalty waiting to happen, upon further observation you see Brown totally blows his duties. I guess I can understand that sometimes, but I saw him help block someone and a linebacker run right by him unblocked various times. I did not see that happen with Weary. Add the fact that Weary is lighter and quicker than brown and it's obvious that Weary is the better guard. I've always thought Weary had potential, when we got him he was I think the third highest ranked guard behind Hutchingson and someone else who I can't remember at the moment. Personally I don't understand anything the previous coaching staff did last yr. If they had managed the personnel we had correctly we could have easily won 5-6 games this season.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
TexanBacker93 said:
Ok, so I was thinking 3 years instead of 4. Still this is almost exactly what the new deal is set up like. Considering at the beginning of the thread I said Coleman and Walker were going to have to go. Coleman's already gone and Walker has been told to sell the house. I think I have magic powers.
Hmm... Now I think we should trade down with the Jets and get their 1st round pick, 2nd round pick and 1st round pick next season. No Whammies. Stop.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
We wait until closer to draft day. We have a better chance of getting more from any team in that last week as excitement builds. The opportunity for NY to have Bush in that market is too much for them to pass on. They will have already made the trade and dumped Abraham so they are willing to give up a #2 and a #3 since they would have the #1 and #4. New Orleans takes Leinart and Tennessee takes Ferguson instead of Young. Kubiak decides to get a dominant fixture on the D with...
Mario Williams. He'll make every other player on that defense better. His pass rush ability will force QBs to throw quicker giving the DBs a better chance to succeed. If he sees double teams it opens up the pass rush lanes for Peek, Orr, and Babin.
Mario Williams. He'll make every other player on that defense better. His pass rush ability will force QBs to throw quicker giving the DBs a better chance to succeed. If he sees double teams it opens up the pass rush lanes for Peek, Orr, and Babin.