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pick 1.15 Kenyon Green G TAMU

thunderkyss

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Mills only pressured 18 % with good protection but doesn't break down which lineman gave up the pressure.
I agree passPro has looked better for the most part & I'm hoping Howard would have a nice, long career here. But Howard looks compromised a lot more often than I'd like to see. He's playing ok, haven't seen him dominated by any one. At the same time he hasn't been dominating anyone, anyone, either.
 

steelbtexan

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I don’t think Howard has earned a 2nd contract. I was OK giving him the 5th year option and seeing how he does at one position and new scheme. But he has been below average and I am ready to pull the plug. Would rather find someone else and see if they can be an upgrade than give him the OB second contract special like Nick Martin.
That money combined with cap space that they already have will get you an elite edge or LB in FA.


I'm really tired of hoping that he will become what I hoped he would become after 5 years.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I agree passPro has looked better for the most part & I'm hoping Howard would have a nice, long career here. But Howard looks compromised a lot more often than I'd like to see. He's playing ok, haven't seen him dominated by any one. At the same time he hasn't been dominating anyone, anyone, either.
I definitely agree on Titus Howard and hope that along with his quarterback he improves each game. Tomorrow would be a good start for both of them against another weakened team.
 

steelbtexan

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Teams always need OLinemen, Tytus Howard does still offer value with just a few games of good tape this season to show he is capable starting material.
If a team needed an OT at the deadline I wouldn't hesitate to trade Howard for a 3rd.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
I'm starting to worry about Green. He's not ranking well for a 1st rounder. He cost us a TD today because he got beat badly and held his opponent. Maybe his shoulder injury from the Raiders game is a factor.

IMG_0262.jpg
 

IDEXAN

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I'm starting to worry about Green. He's not ranking well for a 1st rounder. He cost us a TD today because he got beat badly and held his opponent. Maybe his shoulder injury from the Raiders game is a factor.

View attachment 11074
I'm worried too so I really hope he's underperfoming because of injury.
Using a first round pick on an interior lineman, top half of the first round at that, is an extravagance that most teams and certainly
one with an inferior roster like ours can't afford.
With players like Mills, Collins & Damion Caserio seems to be getting better value in the mid rounds when compared to the dubious value he got for the 15th overall. OK it's early in Green's career, still in the first part of his rookie season, so I suppose I should more patient.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
He's playing like every Texans OL over the past, what 10 years now, doesn't matter if we draft them, trade for them, or sign them as FA - the longer they are a Texan the worse they get.

If they draft a center/guard next year they will have an entire line filled with 1st, 2nd round picks. What can we as fans expect? Crappy OL play.

Something is systemically wrong in that building.
 
I'm worried too so I really hope he's underperfoming because of injury.
Using a first round pick on an interior lineman, top half of the first round at that, is an extravagance that most teams and certainly
one with an inferior roster like ours can't afford.
With players like Mills, Collins & Damion Caserio seems to be getting better value in the mid rounds when compared to the dubious value he got for the 15th overall. OK it's early in Green's career, still in the first part of his rookie season, so I suppose I should more patient.
Agreed. If you're going to draft a guard in the middle of the 1st round, he better be stud-ish from the get-go and NFL ready. I understand Green is going up against some of the NFL's better interior Dlinemen over the past 3 games, but he's not even holding his own. He's getting worked over hard and allowing a tremendous amount of pressure up the interior of the line. Along with Quessenberry, middle OL is a big part of the problem on offense right now. Mills or no Mills next year, any QB is going to have a problem performing with jailbreaking or partial jailbreaking every 3rd or 4th play and taking points off the board.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
He's playing like every Texans OL over the past, what 10 years now, doesn't matter if we draft them, trade for them, or sign them as FA - the longer they are a Texan the worse they get.

If they draft a center/guard next year they will have an entire line filled with 1st, 2nd round picks. What can we as fans expect? Crappy OL play.

Something is systemically wrong in that building.
We have a new OL coach this season with his own approach to OL play. He has had to work with what he inherited. Green is the only draftee he has had.

Green is raw with limitations his rookie year, primarily his lack of strength. But going back to his HS days, he has shown he has the tools to develope. He needs serious time in the training room this coming off season. He also is reportedly playing through some degree of injury. I still have expectations he will develope into a fine player, given a season or two, worthy of his high draft selection. And given his bench press at the combine and the fact he was still selected where he was is a strong indication Warhop thinks he can develope him.

The 23 draft order is still in question but my sentiment is to trade down with our two number one's and acquire as many high picks as possible, and take a Center and RG in the top two rounds. With the QB position a huge question mark at this time, I want to solidify and address the OL as a top priority. We also have the option of addressing the OL in free agency. Lovie is going to address the defense as well, but offensively I place the OL as a higher priority than WR, a position we also need to address.
 
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JB

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The 23 draft order is still in question but my sentiment is to trade down with our two number one's and acquire as many high picks as possible, and take a Center and RG in the top two rounds.
I don't know about in the top 2 rounds, but they certainly need to be a high priority
 

thunderkyss

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True true, but under these non-contending circumstances with nothing to gain if he's hurt then let him heal/rehab and get in some extra work with the S&C coaches.
I can see that. But I don’t know if this is an “inactivity is better for healing” kind of thing.

We don’t really have a preseason anymore. These games help if Pep & the OL coach is returning next season.
 

thunderkyss

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I hope this isn't the case. I never thought I'd say we should have kept Tim Kelly, but man, I think we'd be better if we had.
I hear you. But continuity is key to the way the teams practice nowadays

if we change 3 starting OL out of 5 & a new OL coach & a new OC, we can expect more of what we’re seeing next year regardless how much talent they add.
 

Lucky

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if we change 3 starting OL out of 5 & a new OL coach & a new OC, we can expect more of what we’re seeing next year regardless how much talent they add.
Changing for better players eventually makes for a better team. Based off production, there has to be some change. Can't just keeping rolling out subpar performers for the sake of continuity.
 

thunderkyss

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Changing for better players eventually makes for a better team. Based off production, there has to be some change. Can't just keeping rolling out subpar performers for the sake of continuity.
I’m not saying different

I’m expounding on this post
We don’t really have a preseason anymore. These games help if Pep & the OL coach is returning next season.
 
I can see that. But I don’t know if this is an “inactivity is better for healing” kind of thing.

We don’t really have a preseason anymore. These games help if Pep & the OL coach is returning next season.
I think he has had enough games to understand Pep and the OL coach and I get the value of playing time as it contributes to a cohesive unit. But if he has shoulder/chest issues and a perhaps a lingering knee issue as well, I would prefer he heals now vs play through it. Taking care of it now may only mean a few games, who knows...I'd hate to hear that something (if needed) needs to be done in the offseason. To me, the offseason would be the time for body improvements (strength, conditioning, nutrition, etc) and better preparing for the rigors of a NFL season after going through it.
 

Lucky

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I’m expounding on this post
I can see that. But I don’t know if this is an “inactivity is better for healing” kind of thing.

We don’t really have a preseason anymore. These games help if Pep & the OL coach is returning next season.
That veers into @CloakNNNdagger 's lane. Game experience helps, for sure. Whether it's Pep or the next OC and OL coach looking at the tape.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
That veers into @CloakNNNdagger 's lane. Game experience helps, for sure. Whether it's Pep or the next OC and OL coach looking at the tape.
If we're talking about Kenyon Green, he evidently suffered a shoulder subluxation (not a dislocation), but never missed a game. Such an injury usually would be expected to require 3 weeks of rest/rehab with many times a harness upon return. His shoulder is likely to be a problem the rest of the season, especially if he is not given appropriate rest/rehab time. Expect more holding calls when he cannot hold his man at bay when his shoulder cannot leverage.
 

thunderkyss

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If we're talking about Kenyon Green, he evidently suffered a shoulder subluxation (not a dislocation), but never missed a game. Such an injury usually would be expected to require 3 weeks of rest/rehab with many times a harness upon return. His shoulder is likely to be a problem the rest of the season, especially if he is not given appropriate rest/rehab time. Expect more holding calls when he cannot hold his man at bay when his shoulder cannot leverage.
Thanks Doc

Which shoulder?
 

Lucky

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My understanding was it was his left.
That was the shoulder Dexter Lawrence kept attacking. Considering @CloakNNNdagger 's explation, I don't understand why Green is playing. The injury is known by the league and being taken advantage of. How are the Texans and Green benefitting from Green playing? Insert some previous rant about how clueless the Texans organization is here.
 

IDEXAN

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If we're talking about Kenyon Green, he evidently suffered a shoulder subluxation (not a dislocation), but never missed a game. Such an injury usually would be expected to require 3 weeks of rest/rehab with many times a harness upon return. His shoulder is likely to be a problem the rest of the season, especially if he is not given appropriate rest/rehab time. Expect more holding calls when he cannot hold his man at bay when his shoulder cannot leverage.
I dunno Doc but sounds like you think Green's injury is so serious that it handicaps him and compromises his performance to the extent that we really can't assess his level of talent and/or upside ?
 

IDEXAN

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The 23 draft order is still in question but my sentiment is to trade down with our two number one's and acquire as many high picks as possible, and take a Center and RG in the top two rounds. With the QB position a huge question mark at this time, I want to solidify and address the OL as a top priority. We also have the option of addressing the OL in free agency. Lovie is going to address the defense as well, but offensively I place the OL as a higher priority than WR, a position we also need to address.
I think Vegas and not us is going to get the top pick in the '23 Draft.
They are the only remaining two win team and gauging their remaining schedule I don't think they win another game while I think we will which would then put us at two wins but our tie would make the Vegas record the worse in the league and thereby giving them the #1 overall in the '23 Draft.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I think Vegas and not us is going to get the top pick in the '23 Draft.
They are the only remaining two win team and gauging their remaining schedule I don't think they win another game while I think we will which would then put us at two wins but our tie would make the Vegas record the worse in the league and thereby giving them the #1 overall in the '23 Draft.
Well there you go, Belichick's former top asst. HC and Belichick's former top facilitator fighting it out for the first pick in the draft.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That was the shoulder Dexter Lawrence kept attacking. Considering @CloakNNNdagger 's explation, I don't understand why Green is playing. The injury is known by the league and being taken advantage of. How are the Texans and Green benefitting from Green playing? Insert some previous rant about how clueless the Texans organization is here.
To me it goes back to what I stated about Nick casario selecting stingly over gardener. Nick and Smith's goal is to make the team look favorable to the owners not the fans. Same with using up our running back. I think they will burn assets Now rather than build for the future. One more reason that I want both gone.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I think Vegas and not us is going to get the top pick in the '23 Draft.
They are the only remaining two win team and gauging their remaining schedule I don't think they win another game while I think we will which would then put us at two wins but our tie would make the Vegas record the worse in the league and thereby giving them the #1 overall in the '23 Draft.
Doesn't matter if Raiders don't take a quarterback. It will come down to what other teams thinks LV will do. If other teams believe Raiders will draft another position they will then trade with Houston at 1.2 as many would buy that Texans would draft a quarterback.
 

Lucky

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Nick and Smith's goal is to make the team look favorable to the owners not the fans.
I do think that Caserio has to convince Cal that he's trying to win. While he's actually trying to build for the future. It's a difficult line to straddle. It wouldn't be necessary if Cal fully understood what kind of mess he created by letting O'Brien and Easterbunny run amok. But no, better to not upset Baby Huey with the truth.
 

IDEXAN

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I do think that Caserio has to convince Cal that he's trying to win. While he's actually trying to build for the future. It's a difficult line to straddle. It wouldn't be necessary if Cal fully understood what kind of mess he created by letting O'Brien and Easterbunny run amok. But no, better to not upset Baby Huey with the truth.
Obviously winning now is not and should not be the top priority and I sure hope that Caserio is successful in communicating to Cal & Mom that winning now and rebuilding the roster are mutually exclusive goals but if the McNairs can't be made to understand then we've got an even bigger problem here than what we realized.
 

IDEXAN

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Doesn't matter if Raiders don't take a quarterback. It will come down to what other teams thinks LV will do. If other teams believe Raiders will draft another position they will then trade with Houston at 1.2 as many would buy that Texans would draft a quarterback.
I would imagine that the Vegas GM like most GMs will be totally noncommittal on his intentions with their first round pick but how successful he will be in selling that remains to be seen.
 

thunderkyss

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with Houston at 1.2 as many would buy that Texans would draft a quarterback.
If they want a QB wouldn’t they want to trade ahead of the Texans?

unless there’s a non-QB that they’re trying to to get they wouldn’t see Houston as a trade partner.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
If they want a QB wouldn’t they want to trade ahead of the Texans?

unless there’s a non-QB that they’re trying to to get they wouldn’t see Houston as a trade partner.
Let's say Detroit, Panthers and Seattle want QBs. Lions can save IIRC $29 million cutting Goff; Seattle may lose Geno in FA or just want to go with a new player or could keep Geno and draft a QB. I have seen few thinking Seattle will return next season with what they have now without a better option at least learning on the bench. Panthers picking high and probably taking QB puts pressure in mix.

1.1 Raiders take Will Anderson as many say Houston wants the best player in draft. Teams wanting a specific QB must deal with Texans..
Or gamble and they may. Those who would be satisfied with either Stroud or Young can hope one falls or trade below Houston.

It helps Caserio if teams think he will take QB if he selects 1 thru 3.

Another option:

1.1 Raiders select Young or Stroud & this places tremendous pressure on those teams desiring the other. Caserio smiles as above it's highly possible if not probable he will take the other but-- huge offer could pry 1.2.
This could also work with other combinations:
1.1 Raiders Anderson or QB
1.2 Eagles from NO take Anderson, Murphy or Carter
1.3 Texans again team to deal with.

Could Eagles trade down?
Sure but if they are sold on "best player" do they risk Texans picking Anderson?

Long ways to go before we know the final positioning but that's what makes mocks fun.
 

steelbtexan

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To me it goes back to what I stated about Nick casario selecting stingly over gardener. Nick and Smith's goal is to make the team look favorable to the owners not the fans. Same with using up our running back. I think they will burn assets Now rather than build for the future. One more reason that I want both gone.
Is Caserio in charge of how much Pierce plays!

Lovie worked out both Sauce and Stingley.

Stingley is a fire player.

If you pick a team full of players he fans want them you're screwed as a team.
 


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