Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Offensive scheme moving forward

amazing80

Fire Billy O
First off, can we not derail this thread with garbage about Watson and winning championships. There are enough threads about that already. Let this be a specific topic in here.

What type of offense do YOU think is best for Watson moving forward. West coast, RPO, run and shoot, pro-style, pistol etc....He will be here for the foreseeable future, so let’s get back to some productive conversations.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I actually like the passing concepts we have in place for him now since it has been opened up post BoB. These ast 3 games he’s looked pretty good despite us losing the games. Contrary what everyone thinks, DW4 is a gunslinger and when I think of WCO, I think of short passes with calculated shots deep...DW4 loves challenging deep. I’d just look to shore up the run game and run a wide open offense or something similar to what we do now.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I actually like the passing concepts we have in place for him now since it has been opened up post BoB. These ast 3 games he’s looked pretty good despite us losing the games. Contrary what everyone thinks, DW4 is a gunslinger and when I think of WCO, I think of short passes with calculated shots deep...DW4 loves challenging deep. I’d just look to shore up the run game and run a wide open offense or something similar to what we do now.
Like I said, anything really.
But with the WCO, you can find linemen, 2nd/3rd TE, 3rd/4th/5th receiver, RBs on the cheap.

He can still have plenty of play where he can sling the ball.
WCO doesn't have to mean that you're in the base offense all the time.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Like I said, anything really.
But with the WCO, you can find linemen, 2nd/3rd TE, 3rd/4th/5th receiver, RBs on the cheap.

He can still have plenty of play where he can sling the ball.
WCO doesn't have to mean that you're in the base offense all the time.
Understood...I’m just telling you what I think of when I hear WCO...I think of the original version of it under the 49ers.
 

Toro Bravo

Waterboy
Better coaching, better talent evaluation, better run game, better design no matter what the system is, for starters.
Most importantly, a better defense. I think Watson can be successful in any offensive scheme, given talent around him. But he seems best when he is moving and has to improvise.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The last three games he’s performed great in this system. He’s put up great numbers in this system since he’s been in it. So we need a better coach who will consistently be creative.

What we need is a legitimate running game . Get that and this offense will take off
 

Mangler

All Pro
I’d love to see Watson running a WCO, but assuming Bieniemy lands the HC gig here in Houston, I’m open to whatever scheme EB sees fit. I hope he’s able to pluck all KC’s position coaches as well!
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What type of offense do YOU think is best for Watson moving forward.
I really don’t think it matters.

& I don’t mean that in a “Watson is a reclamation project at this point.” Kind of way.

He seems to ba able to run this offense when things go his way, when he can get into a rhythm.

I’d love to see him with a real run game.

& just like previous years, I think he’s been saddled with people who don’t know how to scout an opposing defense. It’s not until the third or fourth offensive possession that we have an idea who we’re playing.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I really don’t think it matters.

& I don’t mean that in a “Watson is a reclamation project at this point.” Kind of way.

He seems to ba able to run this offense when things go his way, when he can get into a rhythm.

I’d love to see him with a real run game.

& just like previous years, I think he’s been saddled with people who don’t know how to scout an opposing defense. It’s not until the third or fourth offensive possession that we have an idea who we’re playing.
I agree with some some of this. Let me ask it another way, which system or scheme do you think it best to get our run game going more consistently?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If Bienemy or any 1st year guy comes here you can best be prepared for them to bring a few of their former teams’ position coaches with them...but not for the lateral moves of being a position coach. Chances are whomever they bring over will be a position coach that’s going to be promoted to coordinator position.

KC has SEVERAL guys in quality control, “run game” “pass game” analyst/assistant roles that you could see come over under Bienemy as OC/DC coordinators.


By all accounts, Bienemy should've been hired as a HC last year & everyone knows how tough it is for minorities to get these HC gigs so i'm sure he'll wanna pay it forward in some way. In that regard, I could see a guy with tons of NFL coaching/coordinator experience like a Pep Hamilton come over and be the OC/assistant HC under Bienemy to help him get back on the fast track to being a HC. Hamilton was Andrew Luck's OC for a few years in Indy and they did well together for a few years. Currently he is the QB coach for the Chargers under Anthony Lynn. Hard not to notice what Herbert's been doing with the Chargers under him.
 
Last edited:

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I agree with some some of this. Let me ask it another way, which system or scheme do you think it best to get our run game going more consistently?
If we’re going to line up in shotgun all the time, we need to make Duke our primary & run primarily outside zone. Get rid of the RPO & run straight zone read.

Teach Watson to slide.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
I’m still try to figure out what has he done to warrant all of this attention. I mean isn’t he riding the coat tail of Andy Reid?
So I could spin that as eight seasons with a great offensive mind and 3 years coordinating the most productive offense in the league while helping a talented QB quickly reach his full potential faster than anyone expected.
 

JWTexans

Practice Squad
I think Watson would be an absolute stud in the early 90s Buffalo K-Gun offense, that being said, its outdated and nobody would run that because it tires your own D out just as quick as the opponents. I think a version of KCs WC offense or a spread offense would maximize Watsons potential.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I think Watson would be an absolute stud in the early 90s Buffalo K-Gun offense, that being said, its outdated and nobody would run that because it tires your own D out just as quick as the opponents. I think a version of KCs WC offense or a spread offense would maximize Watsons potential.
You absolutely beat me to this exact offense. Yes, the Bills K-Gun No-Huddle offense would be taylor made for Watson's skill-set. I also believe a running game could flourish in this offense. I've also thought a hybrid of the WC and R&S Offense's could be quite entertaining. Just putting a hybrid together of these offense and have Watson move under center more often could really make Watson a weapon to plan for. The NFL is changing their rules every season to make it an easier league to pass in so not taking advantage of that is a major injustice. The K-Gun and R&S offenses had no issues in helping their RB's to very nice seasons. I'd like to see Watson get his chance with something like this.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Virtually every NFL coach, successful or not, has ridden another coaches coattails. Should the Patriot's not have hired Belichick because he worked for Parcells?

Belichick was the HC of the Browns before he went to the Patriots. But I get your drift.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Belichick was the HC of the Browns before he went to the Patriots. But I get your drift.
This is why you can’t rule out the source of finding a new HC. Retread failure as well as coming out of someone else’s system.
What’s important is how a candidate fits the organisation, their realistic plan to make it work. Does the interview make you believe in him?
These are all questions it’s hard to answer as fans.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I would hire Brian Schottenheimer from the Seahawks.
I'm not sold on Schottenheimer. For a guy who has been in the NFL for 19 years, he's not considered an innovative coach or shown enough to get hired as a HC. Before joining the Seahawks, he had a reputation for being a run first and very conservative OC.

In fact, Seahawks fans started the "Let Russ Cook" meme because even with a great QB like Wilson, the Seahawks had the lowest percentage of first quarter passes under Schottenheimer.

EDIT: Looking at his career, he was the OC for Rex Ryan, Jeff Fisher and now Carroll. It's interesting that they are all defensive HCs who like to run the ball. So, maybe he was following the philosophy of his HC and I'm being unfair to him.
 
Last edited:

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
EDIT: Looking at his career, he been the OC for Rex Ryan, Jeff Fisher and now Carroll. It's interesting that they are all defensive HCs who like to run the ball. So, maybe he was following the philosophy of his HC and I'm being unfair to him.
You are correct.

OC don't usually get the free reign to do what they want like DC's do. That is to say, a HC (defensive or offensive-minded) is more likely to allow a DC to come in & turn him completely loose to let him run his own type of defense how he wants. OC's however almost never get that free reign to install and run what they might be partial to. If its an offensive-minded HC, they will typically be calling the plays themselves & the OC is really just there in name only. If it's a defensive-minded HC, its can happen, its just much more rare. The typical set up for those guys is to have their OC's run ball/clock control type of offenses to protect their defenses. On the rare occasion an OC is given free reign, the person turned loose has to be an established mind...Think Kubiak to Minny under Zimmer...Norv Turner to SD under Phillips.

I say all that to say that i don't think we've seen Schottenheimer really spread his wings b/c he's always been under defensive-minded guys. Still though his last name might be enough to scare people away for fear of "marty-ball" having rubbed off on him.

me personally, i think i'm partial to a defensive guy. We've failed with both & actually we have failed more with offensive minded HC's now than defensive. That's why i'm weary of hiring "the next great offensive genius/mind"...whatever. You're only as much of a genius as the offensive talent you have says you are. CAN YOU BUILD AN OFFENSIVE BASE OF TALENT TO EXECUTE YOUR VISION? That's what fans should be asking instead of looking at the success the guy had working under another successful guy. & i don't have any data to prove this, but it is my impression that offensive..or offensive-linked guys flame out much faster than defensive aligned guys, usually b/c those guys can't get enough of that base level of talent they need to be successful..
 
Last edited:

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I really like what the Steelers are doing with their “jet motion”.

Mix in a healthy dose of Watson read option.


I mentioned the Steelers & their OC in one of the other threads .... They have been running that same playbook for decades. That running scheme works.


As for the read option - I tear that crap out of the playbook.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
I mentioned the Steelers & their OC in one of the other threads .... They have been running that same playbook for decades. That running scheme works.


As for the read option - I tear that crap out of the playbook.
It works with good misdirection.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You are correct.

OC don't usually get the free reign to do what they want like DC's do. That is to say, a HC (defensive or offensive-minded) is more likely to allow a DC to come in & turn him completely loose to let him run his own type of defense how he wants. OC's however almost never get that free reign to install and run what they might be partial to. If its an offensive-minded HC, they will typically be calling the plays themselves & the OC is really just there in name only. If it's a defensive-minded HC, its can happen, its just much more rare. The typical set up for those guys is to have their OC's run ball/clock control type of offenses to protect their defenses. On the rare occasion an OC is given free reign, the person turned loose has to be an established mind...Think Kubiak to Minny under Zimmer...Norv Turner to SD under Phillips.

I say all that to say that i don't think we've seen Schottenheimer really spread his wings b/c he's always been under defensive-minded guys. Still though his last name might be enough to scare people away for fear of "marty-ball" having rubbed off on him.

me personally, i think i'm partial to a defensive guy. We've failed with both & actually we have failed more with offensive minded HC's now than defensive. That's why i'm weary of hiring "the next great offensive genius/mind"...whatever. You're only as much of a genius as the offensive talent you have says you are. CAN YOU BUILD AN OFFENSIVE BASE OF TALENT TO EXECUTE YOUR VISION? That's what fans should be asking instead of looking at the success the guy had working under another successful guy. & i don't have any data to prove this, but it is my impression that offensive..or offensive-linked guys flame out much faster than defensive aligned guys, usually b/c those guys can't get enough of that base level of talent they need to be successful..
I would like to add another guy to my list of

Arthur Smith
Saleh.

Todd Bowles, I know he failed with the NYJ but his teams always played hard and he had very little talent to work with. In Tampa this yr he's really impressed me with how their young secondary has progressed and he's done an almost impossible thing. (Getting Suh to play hard on almost every play during the regular season. Suh always plays hard in the playoffs) Bowles is well connected around the NFL and I feel quite certain that he can draw great asst coaches. (My biggest criteria for any HC hire.)

With that said, I've got no faith in Cal/Easterbunny/DW4/Pancakes to hire the right HC. Much less a competent GM.
 

Jadmakaveli

Veteran
What? If you had to make a poster of power hungry, HCs who got personnel control of a NFL franchise and failed spectacularly, it would have a picture of Chip Kelly and.....Bill O'Brien.

In other words, the Texans just fired Chip Kelly.
Would like to say I was 100% being sarcastic lol.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I mentioned the Steelers & their OC in one of the other threads .... They have been running that same playbook for decades. That running scheme works.


As for the read option - I tear that crap out of the playbook.
I've always liked the Steelers' approach and really wished the McNairs would have paid more attention to the Rooneys and less to Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft. IMHO. From a team perspective, they are always going to be a blitzing 3-4 defense with a strong running game and downfield passing attack. Regardless of the HC or GM. That's who they want to be and they do a good job of hiring a GM and HC to execute that vision and always seem to draft players to plug and play into that philosophy.

You're right. They have been running the same scheme for decades and it makes sense. How many times have teams fired a HC who ran one scheme and hire a new HC running a totally different scheme and the personnel doesn't fit? For example, 3-4 versus 4-3 LBs or zone blocking versus man blocking OL. The Steelers avoid these personnel issues because from HC to HC the organization is align from ownership to GM to HC. It starts from the top.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I've always liked the Steelers' approach and really wished the McNairs would have paid more attention to the Rooneys and less to Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft. IMHO. From a team perspective, they are always going to be a blitzing 3-4 defense with a strong running game and downfield passing attack. Regardless of the HC or GM. That's who they want to be and they do a good job of hiring a GM and HC to execute that vision and always seem to draft players to plug and play into that philosophy.

You're right. They have been running the same scheme for decades and it makes sense. How many times have teams fired a HC who ran one scheme and hire a new HC running a totally different scheme and the personnel doesn't fit? For example, 3-4 versus 4-3 LBs or zone blocking versus man blocking OL. The Steelers avoid these personnel issues because from HC to HC the organization is align from ownership to GM to HC. It starts from the top.
This would require Cal to have a vision and not be a dumbazz.

Fat chance of these things happening.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
This would require Cal to have a vision and not be a dumbazz.

Fat chance of these things happening.
Yeah, I'd like to see Cal have the stones like Crane did when he bought the Astros. Crane stepped up to the mic and laid out his plan and then went out and hired a top notch GM to make his vision a reality and a HC to execute he and his GM's vision. That union was special regardless of the stupidity that followed.

Cal, I guess stood behind Easterby and let him swing the axe on OB. It might've been Easterby seeing an opportunity and wanting to snatch the power from OB.....that prompted him to get into Cal's ear about OB needing to go. Cal may have been thinking this and told Easterby.....you want to do this, then you got to be the axe man.

Crane was pizzed that the team's WS got a big fat asterisk from baseball and had the stones to make one of the toughest decisions he ever had to make.....call Luhnow and Hinch in his office and fire both of them and then go in front of the media and announce his decision.

What will it take to see Cal take those steps in maturity?

His first step, send Easterby packing and announce a plan of attack for the Texans future and how he'll go about making it happen. That's what the fans are waiting for. We're also waiting to see him make that business degree from Rice worth more than the paper its's printed on.
 


Top