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NFL Insider (Texans)

D

Daonly

Waterboy
NFL Insider
March 8 2006

[Edit--can't post premium content, but you can summarize it--thanks, infantrycak]

Basically it said most folks think Bush will be the top pick. The Texans are reported to be trying hard to move down but no one is going for the high asking price. The Texans supposedly are enamored of Mario Williams and aren't sure Bush is the best USC RB.

:homer:
 
i question that we'll do that- if we want mario we take him at #1 if theres no trade- why take a chance by drafting bush and hoping that the team that takes mario will trade after. i dont see the point of that at all to be honest
 
Maddict5 said:
i question that we'll do that- if we want mario we take him at #1 if theres no trade- why take a chance by drafting bush and hoping that the team that takes mario will trade after. i dont see the point of that at all to be honest
Click to expand...

I second that....If we trade down its for D'brick. At this point M. Williams is probably worth the #1 pick
 
drafting Super Mario at the #1 spot will cost us a pretty penny though (he'd be worth every cent). but, if we can, I hope we can hammer out a trade down in the top 4.
 
AtheGreat said:
drafting Super Mario at the #1 spot will cost us a pretty penny though (he'd be worth every cent). but, if we can, I hope we can hammer out a trade down in the top 4.
Click to expand...

I hope so too but a trade with the Jets is not looking likely to me at this point. Why would they give up much when they can stay where they are an almost certainly get one of the three QB's they like? IMO, the only way this changes is if they really lock in on one of them (Leinart, Young or Cutler) over the next 45 days and are willing to give up some value to get the one of the three that they like the best. Hope it happens but I am now hoping for another trading partner to come through for us. :twocents:
 
Hulk75 said:
Kubiak will make the right choice, we have to believe that, I would be fine with either:spy: (REGGIE REGGIE REGGIE)
Click to expand...

Why in the world would you believe that? I mean, that's like believing the other Bush when he said we went to Iraq to intercept the WMD. It's ridiculous, a coin flip at the absolute best case.

SHeesh.
 
Nighthawk said:
Why in the world would you believe that? I mean, that's like believing the other Bush when he said we went to Iraq to intercept the WMD. It's ridiculous, a coin flip at the absolute best case.

SHeesh.
Click to expand...

Don't make Hulk mad, he may start raging on you by typing in green.
 
Nighthawk said:
Why in the world would you believe that? I mean, that's like believing the other Bush when he said we went to Iraq to intercept the WMD. It's ridiculous, a coin flip at the absolute best case.

SHeesh.
Click to expand...
Is it my imagination or everytime someone posts somthing positive about Kubiak you flame all over it? Tell me if I am wrong.

Do you have some sort of personal grudge against him? Did he run over your cat or steal you milk money? Is your name really Ibar-Gafney and got so much heat you changed names? I have wondered for some time what happened to him. I am just playin.

Seriously though, do you have somthing against the man?
 
I think picking Mario #1 would be ok, we might get some heat from the national media for not picking a offensive impact player. But Mario is the equivilent of a franchise OT if he lives up to his natural ability. More interceptions, sacks, 3 and outs etc... I hope we can trade down and get him but picking him #1 would not be a bad thing.
 
Mario should be a very special player, as should Bush and some of the other top guys. I would prefer Mario since he plays a position that we really need help at, and I honestly think he could be a better pure DE than Julius Peppers (Peppers is obviously a better athlete and all-round player, but Mario is close athletically and is bigger/stronger and might be a more effective pure DE). I would be fine taking him at #1, but at the same time I think we can get some kind of trade from the Titans or Jets if they want to move up to grab Bush or one of the QBs, and Mario will still be available at #3/4 (the Saints will take Leinart or Cutler, and the Titans will take a QB or D'Brick, so Mario will be there at #4), so I think accepting any kind of trade to move down to one of those two spots would be good as we can get Mario for a cheaper price and add extra picks (I would definitely take a trade down if we got this year's 2nd and next year's 2nd from either the Titans or Jets). Moving down past the Jets is risky though for getting Mario as they could definitely take him, especially if they end up trading John Abraham, so I would take just about any trade from either the Titans or Jets as we still get Mario and add something else in there.
 
Nighthawk said:
Why in the world would you believe that? I mean, that's like believing the other Bush when he said we went to Iraq to intercept the WMD. It's ridiculous, a coin flip at the absolute best case.

SHeesh.
Click to expand...

hey stud, unless you are a member of the US state department you don't know.
why don't you take that oath from the chief justice and then deal with what the position entails. leave your political views aside when talking about the Texans.
 
TEXANRED said:
Is it my imagination or everytime someone posts somthing positive about Kubiak you flame all over it? Tell me if I am wrong.

Do you have some sort of personal grudge against him? Did he run over your cat or steal you milk money? Is your name really Ibar-Gafney and got so much heat you changed names? I have wondered for some time what happened to him. I am just playin.

Seriously though, do you have somthing against the man?
Click to expand...

I have nothing against Kubiak but neither am I a brain-impaired lemming. The guy said "we have to trust Kubiak will might the right choice" or similar. That's utter nonsense. There is no reason in the world that we should think that Kubiak or anybody else in the Texans FO will make the "right choice" about anything. When he (and the FO) have made a bunch of demonstrable "right choices" then I will be happy to agree that he might make the "right choice" in some future matter. Otherwise, I remain skeptical.

This is the fundamental difficulty I have on the board. Too many people willing to give too many others at the Texans offices a pass on just about anything. Seems silly to me. THat's how we got in this mess with 4 years of Capers & Co (FWIW, I was on here begging to dump Capers after yr 2).

But hey, I'm just sayin'.
 
dirty steve said:
hey stud, unless you are a member of the US state department you don't know.
why don't you take that oath from the chief justice and then deal with what the position entails. leave your political views aside when talking about the Texans.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I forgot. They're still looking.
 
MorKnolle said:
Mario should be a very special player, as should Bush and some of the other top guys. I would prefer Mario since he plays a position that we really need help at, and I honestly think he could be a better pure DE than Julius Peppers (Peppers is obviously a better athlete and all-round player, but Mario is close athletically and is bigger/stronger and might be a more effective pure DE).
Click to expand...
Its interesting, but many people have compared Reggie Bush to Steve Smith
in what kind of impact he could have on the offense of the Texans, or the
offense of whichever team drafts him. Of course Smith is primarily a WR who
is involved in some running plays (reverses for example), and is a KR. Bush
would be a RB who would also be used as a slot receiver, WR, and KR.
But you've got to ask yourself, would a Steve Smith or a Julius Peppers make
a more important contribution to your team ?
 
nunusguy said:
Its interesting, but many people have compared Reggie Bush to Steve Smith
in what kind of impact he could have on the offense of the Texans, or the
offense of whichever team drafts him. Of course Smith is primarily a WR who
is involved in some running plays (reverses for example), and is a KR. Bush
would be a RB who would also be used as a slot receiver, WR, and KR.
But you've got to ask yourself, would a Steve Smith or a Julius Peppers make
a more important contribution to your team ?
Click to expand...

I have made those comparisons to Steve Smith, and I honestly think with our defensive personnel and offensive personnel that Mario would make a bigger impact. He's probably a more "sure" pick, however you take that to mean, but I'd be thrilled to have either on our team.
 
nunusguy said:
Its interesting, but many people have compared Reggie Bush to Steve Smith
in what kind of impact he could have on the offense of the Texans, or the
offense of whichever team drafts him. Of course Smith is primarily a WR who
is involved in some running plays (reverses for example), and is a KR. Bush
would be a RB who would also be used as a slot receiver, WR, and KR.
But you've got to ask yourself, would a Steve Smith or a Julius Peppers make
a more important contribution to your team ?
Click to expand...

The state of the Texans would suggest a Julius Peppers type hands down. We have had an all pro kick returner, we have had a rookie of the year at RB and we have had an all pro WR. This still has not been good enough. What we need to do is apply pressure. In the last four seasons we have not had a player on either side of that ball that the other team has to account for, nor have we had a guy that we can count on to make the big play. Mario in my opinion is that guy when you look at the film and the measurements.
 
MorKnolle said:
I have made those comparisons to Steve Smith, and I honestly think with our defensive personnel and offensive personnel that Mario would make a bigger impact. He's probably a more "sure" pick, however you take that to mean, but I'd be thrilled to have either on our team.
Click to expand...
Williams looks to be an outstanding NFL prospect, but are you concerned about reports that have him as only the #2 DE on his own team ?
 
nunusguy said:
Williams looks to be an outstanding NFL prospect, but are you concerned about reports that have him as only the #2 DE on his own team ?
Click to expand...

No different than reports in 2002 that had Sims over Peppers.
 
lawson is probably going to be an 3-4 olb as he's a tweener and lightning fast. mario has the size and speed- any1 rating lawson over him is crazy
 
Maddict5 said:
any1 rating lawson over him is crazy
Click to expand...
"Lawson played weakside end for the Wolfpack and was voted the team's best defensive lineman each of the last two seasons. That's no small feat with Mario Williams playing the other end."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/030506dnspocombine.1d1eea0.html
*********************************************************
This by Rick Gosselin of the Morning News, who's rated as one of the best journalists in the country when it comes to covering the NFL.
When you start talking about using your first round pick, let alone the #1 overall in the whole Draft, all info should be considered.
Nobody doubts this guys ability, but what could be troubling about something like this is it may be a less than positive commentary on Williams
consistency, i. e., his sustained effort. And also about those intangibles that all the VY/UT fans like to talk about - his leadership (or lack thereof).
 
Kaiser Toro said:
The state of the Texans would suggest a Julius Peppers type hands down. We have had an all pro kick returner, we have had a rookie of the year at RB and we have had an all pro WR. This still has not been good enough. What we need to do is apply pressure. In the last four seasons we have not had a player on either side of that ball that the other team has to account for, nor have we had a guy that we can count on to make the big play. Mario in my opinion is that guy when you look at the film and the measurements.
Click to expand...

Especially since he comes with a lower risk of not living up to potential or even being a bust when compared with some of the offensive playmakers above him. He might have slightly less upside if everyone reaches their maximum potential, but he is far more likely to reach more of his potential.

If my wording makes sense.
 
Just for my clarification, are you saying that there will be no pressure on Mario Williams, or by not drafting Reggie there isnt the pressure of Reggie busting?
 
nunusguy said:
"Lawson played weakside end for the Wolfpack and was voted the team's best defensive lineman each of the last two seasons. That's no small feat with Mario Williams playing the other end."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/030506dnspocombine.1d1eea0.html
*********************************************************
This by Rick Gosselin of the Morning News, who's rated as one of the best journalists in the country when it comes to covering the NFL.
When you start talking about using your first round pick, let alone the #1 overall in the whole Draft, all info should be considered.
Nobody doubts this guys ability, but what could be troubling about something like this is it may be a less than positive commentary on Williams
consistency, i. e., his sustained effort. And also about those intangibles that all the VY/UT fans like to talk about - his leadership (or lack thereof).
Click to expand...

If you want a an outside line backer in 3-4 it appears that you may want to push Lawson up your board. If you want a DE in a 4-3, you go with Williams.

Who helps the Texans next year more? Williams or Lawson given what you now about the Texans?
 
BigBull17 said:
Just for my clarification, are you saying that there will be no pressure on Mario Williams, or by not drafting Reggie there isnt the pressure of Reggie busting?
Click to expand...

I'm just saying that while most people focus on a player's upside during the draft, there is also risk for each player that should be considered. When downside risk isn't considered people end up surprised when someone doesn't turn out as expected.

For instance, what is the risk of Bush's size, track record of the number of good years an RB typically has, etc? In Young's case, the risks include his not having run a pro style offense, throwing motion, can he run as effectively against an NFL defense without injury, etc. Leinert - weak arm, mobility, etc. Considering risks is not attacking a player or saying the player isn't any good; it is just looking at all aspects of his potential future.

Mario Williams certainly has risk and may not pan out. However, given his physical capabilities and the nature of his position, I evaluate him as having less risk than some of the other highly rated players.

There is also a "team risk" sort of consideration. To me it is less risky to put a top prospect in a position of dire team need than use a top prospect to upgrade an average position. We should get more improvement bang for our buck.
 
Lawson put up the better stats due to the slide protection to Mario's side. Don't take anything from Lawson he is likely the number 12 pick to Cleveland and will do well in the league, but Mario is a Rare talent and he would be the best pick for us. The asking price should come down especially if Mario is our guy, because getting him and anything extra is a win in my eyes.
 
Coach C. said:
Lawson put up the better stats due to the slide protection to Mario's side...
Click to expand...
Not to mention, Mario plays the defensive left side and is often double team by the TE. As you said, both Williams and Lawson are good players, but Williams is bigger. According to the Parcells "Planet theory", you go for the good bigger player over the good smaller player.

Is NFL Insider the same as ESPN Insider?
 
Lucky said:
According to the Parcells "Planet theory", you go for the good bigger player over the good smaller player.

Is NFL Insider the same as ESPN Insider?
Click to expand...
Mike Williams over Dwight Freeney or Roy Williams? Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan? Robert Gallery over Larry Fitzgerald?

"Planet theory" has a nice ring to it and it sounds cute...but it's just a cutesypie saying.
 
IMO, the only way we get Mario is if we trade down. If we pick number 1 it will be Bush. Might not be THE best pick, but it will be the one that, if by chance the 1st pick busts they won't be hearing "What...you stupid or what!". Once we trade down (I am doubting more and more that it will happen) then we can take the BPA...as long as Bush doesn't happen to be sitting there. If he is there, then we are kind of still in the same boat, but MAY be able to pick the other player.
 
Vinny said:
Mike Williams over Dwight Freeney or Roy Williams? Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan? Robert Gallery over Larry Fitzgerald?

"Planet theory" has a nice ring to it and it sounds cute...but it's just a cutesypie saying.
Click to expand...


I'm with Vinny on this ..... Reggie Bush over Vince Young
 
I was all for D'Brick over everyone else in the draft, including Bush. But the more and more I see of this M. Williams kid, it would be hard for me to not take him with the #1 overall pick, even if we couldn't trade down. He would be an imdeiate starter at DE, he could be very versitile...JM:twocents:
 
Did NC St have their pro day yet? I mean he had one of the best combines this year but he still could improve some of his numbers right? I could definitly see taking him at number one. But if the texans could trade with the saints, due to all the hype the jets are getting for supposidly wanting to trade up, that would be awsome.
 
Runner said:
I'm just saying that while most people focus on a player's upside during the draft, there is also risk for each player that should be considered. When downside risk isn't considered people end up surprised when someone doesn't turn out as expected.

For instance, what is the risk of Bush's size, track record of the number of good years an RB typically has, etc? In Young's case, the risks include his not having run a pro style offense, throwing motion, can he run as effectively against an NFL defense without injury, etc. Leinert - weak arm, mobility, etc. Considering risks is not attacking a player or saying the player isn't any good; it is just looking at all aspects of his potential future.

Mario Williams certainly has risk and may not pan out. However, given his physical capabilities and the nature of his position, I evaluate him as having less risk than some of the other highly rated players.

There is also a "team risk" sort of consideration. To me it is less risky to put a top prospect in a position of dire team need than use a top prospect to upgrade an average position. We should get more improvement bang for our buck.
Click to expand...

But that adds presure to Williams, or who ever we draft with the #1, to be a sucess due to the potential player we could have. If Reggie blows up into Mr. all world RB then Mario, Brick, or whoever have to put up huge pro bowl numbers or there will always be a slight hint of doubt every time RB makes Sportscenter top 10. But thats why the draft is like Russian Roulette.:twocents:
 
BigBull17 said:
But that adds presure to Williams, or who ever we draft with the #1, to be a sucess due to the potential player we could have. If Reggie blows up into Mr. all world RB then Mario, Brick, or whoever have to put up huge pro bowl numbers or there will always be a slight hint of doubt every time RB makes Sportscenter top 10. But thats why the draft is like Russian Roulette.:twocents:
Click to expand...

Sure. I see what you are saying now.

I don't know how much players worry about that; I know fans do though!
 
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