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New York Giants pull $60M offer to Jason Pierre-Paul

TexasCowboy said:
Read it again
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I did and I simply do not agree that injured hands do not SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT the ability to tackle. Without the ability to make SURE tackles, his VALUE is SIGNIFICANTLY undermined.

It appears that the Giants agree that grip is important to playing the position well. The only way to find out if if he plays.
 
He isn't losing full use of his fingers because he still has tendons and muscles
that are still functioning, he is however losing nerve endings!! which means
he is not capable of having feeling and more than likely will be numb for the
rest of his life

so he is fortunate actually cause it could have been a lot worse and
had his fingers amputated if it had been any worse than it worse
 
TexasCowboy said:
He isn't losing full use of his fingers because he still has tendons and muscles
that are still functioning, he is however losing nerve endings!! which means
he is not capable of having feeling and more than likely will be numb for the
rest of his life

so he is fortunate actually cause it could have been a lot worse and
had his fingers amputated if it had been any worse than it worse
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Yes he is fortunate.
But losing the feeling in your extremities does affect what you can do. I have diabetic neuropathy and even though I can still walk, I have no "legs" to even shoot free throws. I can use my arms, but the consistency is gone.

I suspect he MAY be able to play, but with less secure tackling and less ability to get off the blocks. This makes his value significantly less than $60M. He MIGHT NOT even be good enough to make the team now. You don't invest in uncertainty at a premium though you might at a discount.
 
Marshall said:
Yes he is fortunate.
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we will agree upon this he is fortunate

Marshall said:
But losing the feeling in your extremities does affect what you can do. I have diabetic neuropathy and even though I can still walk, I have no "legs" to even shoot free throws. I can use my arms, but the consistency is gone.
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I disagree tingling sensations or even numbness doesn't limit the use it just means
the nerves are damaged and are paralyzed, the duration of the paralysis depends on
the psychical injury itself...this could be a long term deal, or he could have it short
term nobody knows what the doctors predicted in regards to this?

so to assume we know is foolish!!! in the meantime I am sure he is cleared to comeback
and play, as long as no further muscles or tendons were injured by his stupidity I don't
think he's done enough to say he still can't play at the caliber he was at before


Marshall said:
I suspect he MAY be able to play, but with less secure tackling and less ability to get off the blocks. This makes his value significantly less than $60M. He MIGHT NOT even be good enough to make the team now. You don't invest in uncertainty at a premium though you might at a discount.
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I have no doubt he will be able to play ^^ see above I also have no doubt that
Pier Paul can still maintain his level of play even if the sensation is gone due to
extensive nerve damage. again just as long as the muscles and tendon works
this is only a case of lose of sensation which is no big deal IMO
 
TexasCowboy said:
we will agree upon this he is fortunate



I disagree tingling sensations or even numbness doesn't limit the use it just means
the nerves are damaged and are paralyzed, the duration of the paralysis depends on
the psychical injury itself...this could be a long term deal, or he could have it short
term nobody knows what the doctors predicted in regards to this?

so to assume we know is foolish!!! in the meantime I am sure he is cleared to comeback
and play, as long as no further muscles or tendons were injured by his stupidity I don't
think he's done enough to say he still can't play at the caliber he was at before




I have no doubt he will be able to play ^^ see above I also have no doubt that
Pier Paul can still maintain his level of play even if the sensation is gone due to
extensive nerve damage. again just as long as the muscles and tendon works
this is only a case of lose of sensation which is no big deal IMO
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This injury, when you examine it as a trauma surgeon, is an extremely serious hand injury. No matter what may be reported, both the major involvement of 3 of his digits in direct trauma and the trauma of subsequent reconstruction, there is no doubt that he has incurred significant dysfunction of that hand. He may be able to compensate some of this function, but realistically, he will not be able to compensate enough that it will not significantly affect his performance on the field. Through amputation he would have suffered severe tendon, ligament, nerve and vascular damage. Reconstruction will not take the place of or resurrect these major traumas. Tenderness and is likely for a long period of time, if not permanently. His muscles and his nerves and his brain will have to retrain, in that they will try to function as though the digits are undamaged. This is a very long process and usually happens very incompletely, if at all. The brain feedback as far as the relationships of one structure to another as occurs in a normal hand will no longer be there. Proprioception (appreciating where the fingers are in space) and appreciating degree of pressure or grip in feedback is very much negatively affected. A majority of patients suffering such an injury will have the brain still interpret the fingers as still being present..........a phenomenon called "phantom digit"...........where the non-existent finger will actually "get in the way." This non-existent finger commonly experiences an interpretation by the brain as having severe pain, a phenomenon very difficult to treat. This is not to even mention potential later problems associated with these reconstructions such as stiffness and scar contractures involving skin, tendons (not smoothly sliding through their sheaths or even becoming non-mobile altogether), and ligaments.

He will get back on the field today, but to minimize the problems he will have to overcome is a poor bet. His ability to overcome these enough to be a long-term asset anywhere close to that which he would have been before injury remains at this time very questionable.
 
In this photo, it appears that there may be a solid 1st web space splint insert in place within the glove structure, something that you see to prevent and/or treat scar contract of this space (scar formation pulling the thumb in towards the next digit...in this case, his middle digit).


giants-practice.jpg


Below, is an example of a 1st web space splint.

img_0933.jpg


With this type of splint in place built into the glove structure, pinch and clutch is very limited. Protective padding would be lacking. He will either have to play without this type of splinting and forego protection, or is likely to wear a padded club/mitten over the splinted hand which would be at least equally limiting.

The first picture above may not reflect his playing hand wear. It may have just been taken in a locker room arena. The pic below may reflect more closely what he may be wearing during game play today. We'll see.

-6fc70a716401b7a8.JPG


Finally, keep in mind that Pierre-Paul is right-handed. It is a major change to rely on your non-dominant hand in regular daily activities, let alone in a sport like football....and especially in a position that requires strength and coordination that you have naturally depended on that hand for your entire life. Things that most people don't even think about like having to assume a 3 point stance now with the left instead of the right hand down.......changing of mechanics, strengths and weaknesses, and strategies will all be major challenges to maintaining level of performance.
 
As a trauma surgeon - you take a lot of things into account
extent of damage, tendons, nerves, muscle whether there
will be complications, infection and possible eventual loss
of the appendage itself?

Pier Paul will have some damage doctors won't be able to
fix he'll just have to deal with it!! but he still is able to
use his fingers, which won't hinder his everyday life in
general

which includes I believe includes his football career
now, whether the Gints want to pay him the money?
is up to them, in their best interest you'll want to
pay him so he can finish out his career as a Giant

But if not then letting him walk is the option they
have..which may result in him going elsewhere
and getting someone else a title when he could
have been doing it with them instead
 
TexasCowboy said:
As a trauma surgeon - you take a lot of things into account
extent of damage, tendons, nerves, muscle whether there
will be complications, infection and possible eventual loss
of the appendage itself?

Pier Paul will have some damage doctors won't be able to
fix he'll just have to deal with it!! but he still is able to
use his fingers, which won't hinder his everyday life in
general

which includes I believe includes his football career
now, whether the Gints want to pay him the money?
is up to them, in their best interest you'll want to
pay him so he can finish out his career as a Giant

But if not then letting him walk is the option they
have..which may result in him going elsewhere
and getting someone else a title when he could
have been doing it with them instead
Click to expand...
You just can't get past the idea that he cannot be the player he was before his "accident?" The money is for a GREAT PLAYER, which is near impossible now. Even I could step on the field and be called a player, but I wouldn't advise it.

We'll see if he can even make the squad next year, much less be a good player, which is his ceiling now.
 
In Reese We Trust
2 hrs ·
Jason Pierre-Paul is suing ESPN and its reporter Adam Schefter for posting his private medical records online to millions of readers.

Pierre-Paul sued ESPN and Schefter in a Florida court Wednesday citing a violation of his privacy.
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I find this curious in that HIPAA privacy laws only apply to medical entities such as hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I find this curious in that HIPAA privacy laws only apply to medical entities such as hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
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would be interesting to have courts look at it again as confidentiality is confidentiality. I think he has good chance. Do I as an individual have right to disclose another's med rec but you as doctor do not?
 
badboy said:
would be interesting to have courts look at it again as confidentiality is confidentiality. I think he has good chance. Do I as an individual have right to disclose another's med rec but you as doctor do not?
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Yes. And the media is not held to any greater standard...........they are limited only by their conscience. In fact, in the case of a treating medical entity voluntarily sharing privileged information with a non-treating physician, the non-treating physician does not fall under HIPPA. The responsibility still falls back only upon the original medical entity that allowed the unauthorized release of the privileged information.
 
Less than 1 week ago, the Giants reported that they were very interested in re-signing Pierre-Paul. Today, the New York Daily News reports that there appears to be no moving towards tagging Pierre-Paul...,,,,which would mean that he would be released to the open market.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Less than 1 week ago, the Giants reported that they were very interested in re-signing Pierre-Paul. Today, the New York Daily News reports that there appears to be no moving towards tagging Pierre-Paul...,,,,which would mean that he would be released to the open market.
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JJ Watt, Willfork, and Pierre-Paul on the same line?
 
TEXANRED said:
JJ Watt, Willfork, and Pierre-Paul on the same line?
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Pierre Paul's injury is one that carries with it a PERMANENT disability........one that will not allow significant improvement from last year's performance after being fully rehabbed.

When he did return, he had several hurries and hits on the QB, but no sacks..............and he showed some residual run defense....................although he had some difficulties wrapping up the RBs unless he managed to position the RB right in front of him and , most importantly, he had more of a problem bringing down the QB. Because of his inability to firmly grab (studies have shown after ray index amputation, there is ~30-35% loss of grip strength and ~30% loss of pinch strength) his opponents using 2 fully-functional hands (with or without a club, especially with his dominant hand being the injured one), he had problems shedding blockers (moves requiring 2 hands to successfully grab the opposing blocker by his shoulder pads and then also use the hands to snatch and turn him one way or the other), and wrapping up RBs and QBs. In all the above, he could essentially many times "get there," but could not take down his targets...................much like a dog chasing a car, but not knowing what to do with it once he catches up with it...........
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Pierre Paul's injury is one that carries with it a PERMANENT disability........one that will not allow significant improvement from last year's performance after being fully rehabbed.

When he did return, he had several hurries and hits on the QB, but no sacks..............and he showed some residual run defense....................although he had some difficulties wrapping up the RBs unless he managed to position the RB right in front of him and , most importantly, he had more of a problem bringing down the QB. Because of his inability to firmly grab (studies have shown after ray index amputation, there is ~30-35% loss of grip strength and ~30% loss of pinch strength) his opponents using 2 fully-functional hands (with or without a club, especially with his dominant hand being the injured one), he had problems shedding blockers (moves requiring 2 hands to successfully grab the opposing blocker by his shoulder pads and then also use the hands to snatch and turn him one way or the other), and wrapping up RBs and QBs. In all the above, he could essentially many times "get there," but could not take down his targets...................much like a dog chasing a car, but not knowing what to do with it once he catches up with it...........
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Love the dog chasing car analogy.
 
Pierre-Paul’s lawsuit against ESPN, Schefter keeps going
Posted by Mike Florio on May 8, 2016, 9:21 AM EDT

Defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul has gotten paid indirectly by the NFL’s broadcast partners for the past six years. He’s still hoping to get paid directly by one of those broadcast partners through the legal system.

The latest details in the invasion of privacy lawsuit filed by Pierre-Paul against ESPN and Adam Schefter surfaced recently from Julia Marsh of the New York Post.

ESPN and Schefter have taken an aggressive approach. First, ESPN and Schefter have exercised their right to remove the case from Florida state court to Florida federal court. That’s a no-brainer move in nearly every case of a company being sued in a state where it’s not headquartered or incorporated. Home cooking (or at least the perception of it) is very real when it comes to state courts vs. federal courts. State court judges are elected, which means that state court cases often skew in the favor of residents of the state and against the interests of those who aren’t. The mere fact that the federal government welcomes cases involving out-of-state defendants represents an official acknowledgment of this dynamic.

Second, ESPN and Schefter want the case to be thrown out based on First Amendment grounds.

“The First Amendment prohibits punishing truthful speech relating to matters of public concern,” ESPN and Schefter contend in paperwork filed in court, via Marsh. “It is clear that football, including a serious injury suffered by a professional football player, is a legitimate public concern.”

ESPN and Schefter also are pursuing sanctions, according to Marsh, against Pierre-Paul for filing an allegedly “meritless” case. That argument arises under Florida’s “SLAPP” statute, which prohibits the filing of lawsuits “without merit and primarily because [the defendant] has exercised the constitutional right of free speech in connection with a public issue.” If successful, ESPN and Schefter will be entitled to recover the attorney fees incurred in defending against the case directly from Pierre-Paul.

In documents filed Thursday, Pierre-Paul explained that he’s not challenging whether the report regarding the amputation of his finger is newsworthy but whether ESPN and Schefter went beyond First Amendment protections by corroborating an undisputed report by publicizing a photograph of Pierre-Paul’s medical records.

“ESPN does not explain how [Pierre-Paul’s] medical records were of legitimate public concern, as opposed to simply reporting that the injury occurred,” Pierre-Paul’s lawyer writes. “Nothing exempt sports reporters from the law’s protection of medical records.”

The case heads to court for a hearing later this month. If the motion to dismiss filed by ESPN and Schefter is denied, the case eventually will be set for a trial.
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Although I am no attorney, as I posted above, I see no basis for a successful lawsuit against ESPN and Schefter in that HIPAA is the law that covers the unauthorized release of a patient's record by a hospital, medical facility, or supporting medical staff. Once this unauthorized release occurs, HIPAA no longer has a role. At a hospital facility, there are so many support staff...........doctors, nurses, nurses' assistants, respiratory therapists, dietitians, etc..........all who have access to a patient's medical records (the mandate of ObamaCare to maintain electronic medical records on a large network of computers makes it easier than ever for access to and copying/printing of patent information). As I have been involved in reviewing several cases of breaches of medical records in the past, the doctor is actually the most unlikely to be involved.
 
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