More Tight End discussion

[the wonger need food]

We have 7 Tight Ends on the roster, by far the most competition we've had in 4 years. Aside from Putzier and Daniels, I don't see anyone being a lock to make the team.

Bruener
Putzier
Daniels
Joppru
Hape
Steele
Halterman

How many do we carry and who makes the final roster?


For those of you asking "what is this Tight End that you speak of"??? Here's some good info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tight_end


And here's an interesting note from a guy you might not have heard of, that is on the current roster...

Texans | Steele looking to land a roster spot
Tue, 4 Jul 2006 06:55:31 -0700

Allen Gemaehlich, of the Daily Sentinel, reports Houston Texans TE Ben Steele is looking to land a roster spot in training camp. "I'm excited about it," Steele said. "I think it's a good fit. The Texans are an on-the-rise team. My chances are as good as ever. I knew something would happen, it was just when. I talked to some teams in the offseason and went through a change in agents." Steele is hoping a change in scenery will increase his opportunity to stick on an NFL roster. "Houston assistant head coach Mike Sherman) brought me in," Steele said of the Packers' former head coach. "He's my connection to Houston. It's good to have someone like have him on my side." Steele played for Sherman in Green Bay last season.

 

[hollywood_texan]

We have 7 Tight Ends on the roster, by far the most competition we've had in 4 years. Aside from Putzier and Daniels, I don't see anyone being a lock to make the team.

Bruener
Putzier
Daniels
Joppru
Hape
Steele
Halterman

How many do we carry and who makes the final roster?


For those of you asking "what is this Tight End that you speak of"??? Here's some good info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tight_end


And here's an interesting note from a guy you might not have heard of, that is on the current roster...

Texans | Steele looking to land a roster spot
Tue, 4 Jul 2006 06:55:31 -0700

Allen Gemaehlich, of the Daily Sentinel, reports Houston Texans TE Ben Steele is looking to land a roster spot in training camp. "I'm excited about it," Steele said. "I think it's a good fit. The Texans are an on-the-rise team. My chances are as good as ever. I knew something would happen, it was just when. I talked to some teams in the offseason and went through a change in agents." Steele is hoping a change in scenery will increase his opportunity to stick on an NFL roster. "Houston assistant head coach Mike Sherman) brought me in," Steele said of the Packers' former head coach. "He's my connection to Houston. It's good to have someone like have him on my side." Steele played for Sherman in Green Bay last season.

If Joppru doesn't make the squad, what was the point of the last 3 seasons? I would be surprised if they cut bait on him without giving him good reps in the regular season.

 

[TwinSisters]

If Joppru doesn't make the squad, what was the point of the last 3 seasons? I would be surprised if they cut bait on him without giving him good reps in the regular season.

Joppru would actually make good trade bait ( during the season ) for some team that wears out in TEs and has extra of something we might need.

I am not sure how his contract is worked right now though. I am sure whoever cleans the sauna will miss him!

He might have a 4 year or 3 year contract??? ... either way, I bet you could fetch a decent nickleback or a RB for him.

 

[TexanFan881]

The way I rank the TEs

1.) Putzier
2.) Bruener
3.) Joppru
4.) Daniels
5.) Steele
6.) Hape
7.) Halterman

If Bruener stays, the first four will make the team. If Bruener goes, things will get interesting.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Joppru would actually make good trade bait ( during the season ) for some team that wears out in TEs and has extra of something we might need.

I am not sure how his contract is worked right now though. I am sure whoever cleans the sauna will miss him!

He might have a 4 year or 3 year contract??? ... either way, I bet you could fetch a decent nickleback or a RB for him.

With the past health problems I don't see getting anything for him until he's proven something other than keeping the trainers busy. I know you said during the season but I don't think that'll be enough time for him to prove to everyone he's durable. I hope to see Joppru on the field playing and contributing for the Texans. He needs to choke down a few steak and potatoe dinners and then hit the gym in order to bulk up about 20 pds for TE. IMO

 

[TwinSisters]

With the past health problems I don't see getting anything for him until he's proven something other than keeping the trainers busy. I know you said during the season but I don't think that'll be enough time for him to prove to everyone he's durable.

I guess what I was thinking is that it is better to deal him without risking to prove that he is in fact not durable at all!

During the season is when someone would want him them most ( provided they ran short on TE's due to injury ). If we wait to waive him, then his stock slides a little bit. I am not sure anybody is going to give us a 2nd round pick for him when the draft is coming up.

I am just babbling though

We need Joppru and I suspect that I will see a lot of him. Carr has whined a little bit in the past about not being able to break Dungy's Cover 2. One of the ways to do it is with two TE's in the middle and short-long WR's on the outside. So we want to have at least one fast TE that can split the middle open like wedging a coconut, so to speak.

Here's a quick break down on the Cover 2
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2271514&type=story
http://www.startribune.com/101/story/173574.html

So if you can put two TE's on the line and have some that can beat the LBs on any given play, you can stab the soft spot in the Cover 2 scheme.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I guess what I was thinking is that it is better to deal him without risking to prove that he is in fact not durable at all!

During the season is when someone would want him them most ( provided they ran short on TE's due to injury ). If we wait to waive him, then his stock slides a little bit. I am not sure anybody is going to give us a 2nd round pick for him when the draft is coming up.

I am just babbling though

We need Joppru and I suspect that I will see a lot of him. Carr has whined a little bit in the past about not being able to break Dungy's Cover 2. One of the ways to do it is with two TE's in the middle and short-long WR's on the outside. So we want to have at least one fast TE that can split the middle open like wedging a coconut, so to speak.

I agree. I'm not sure I'd say the C--- word though. Let's just say "somebody has whined".

 

[TwinSisters]

[/B]

I agree. I'm not sure I'd say the C--- word though. Let's just say "somebody has whined".

Yes sorry.

here let me use the A---- word instead.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1437187.html

This guy is an A----. He still does really good articles on schemes and plays though, so I imagine he has some really good assistants working for him. The problem with this article is that he only talks about it using the Pro Set. If you got better pass catching-blocking TE's, you can mix up the running attack better and hit the pass quicker with double TE's. ( The TE's line-up closer to line and you do not have to wait on the 4th option RB to get up field )

I have heard Kubiak talking about using double TE's in his ZBS rushing attack. That's another reason I suspect I will see more of it this season. We shall see!

 

[HOU-TEX]

Yes sorry.

here let me use the A---- word instead.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1437187.html

This guy is an A----. He still does really good articles on schemes and plays though, so I imagine he has some really good assistants working for him. The problem with this article is that he only talks about it using the Pro Set. If you got better pass catching-blocking TE's, you can mix up the running attack better and hit the pass quicker with double TE's. ( The TE's line-up closer to line and you do not have to wait on the 4th option RB to get up field )

I have heard Kubiak talking about using double TE's in his ZBS rushing attack. That's another reason I suspect I will see more of it this season. We shall see!

Nice find, I now see what you're saying. I think Joppru can fit if he puts on a few more pds. I guess we could use Bruener as one of the TEs for a blocker if the D is getting too much of a rush on the QB.

 

[TwinSisters]

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout109.html

I am going to take one more in from Aggie central. Weiland talks about the changes they made and what the Texans were thinking when they drafted Joppru. This article is dated from June of last year... O how much some things change and how some remain the same.

No, a big reason why those stats couldn't be produced over a full 16-game schedule is because the Texans ran into a buzzsaw of a defense known as the cover-2. The Texans faced that defense at least five times in the second half of the 2004 season, only beating it once, against the Bears in a game defined more by survival of the elements (against a decidedly weaker opponent) than by a mastery of the cover-2.

The cover-2 defense gave the Texans offense problems because it took away the deep pass patterns, a cornerstone of the gameplan endorsed by offensive coordinator Chris Palmer. Executed to perfection by Colts head coach Tony Dungy while he was with the Buccaneers, the cover-2 splits deep zone coverage with a pair of safeties to stymie those long passes. Sometimes, the cover-2 can be masked by bringing up one safety “in the box” and a speedy linebacker can drop into zone coverage unexpectedly, but the result is still marked by an offense’s inability to move the ball downfield in big chunks.

( what we think and guess what the Texans were thinking! )

I not going to go into a rant about how stupid this idea was because it just gets my blood pressure up over spilt milk, however it is worth looking at again when talking about tight ends.

 

[Texan in Japan]

Bruener's leadership and blocking are rock solid, however, I'm not sure he has the receiving skills that Coach K covets. Putzier and Joppru (+ 20 lbs) in a two TE set could be very dangerous.

If we need a blocking TE for goal line sets, we could bring in Eric Winston...he could be an interesting option in red zone also (if he can still catch).

 

[AFD1717]

Bruener's leadership and blocking are rock solid, however, I'm not sure he has the receiving skills that Coach K covets. Putzier and Joppru (+ 20 lbs) in a two TE set could be very dangerous.

If we need a blocking TE for goal line sets, we could bring in Eric Winston...he could be an interesting option in red zone also (if he can still catch).

Bruener used to have decent skills as a reciever, but he just hasn't been asked to use them much recently. I think he can remember how, but I still don't see him catching many passes.

Interesting thought about Winston as a TE on the goal line. I knew he used to be a TE, but it never occured to me to use him as one in the nfl.

 

[TwinSisters]

Bruener's leadership and blocking are rock solid, however, I'm not sure he has the receiving skills that Coach K covets. Putzier and Joppru (+ 20 lbs) in a two TE set could be very dangerous.

If we need a blocking TE for goal line sets, we could bring in Eric Winston...he could be an interesting option in red zone also (if he can still catch).

yeah

Johnson - Joppru - Putzier - Moulds is what I expect to see ( right now )

Bruener I think has the hands, but not the speed/quickness. He wasn't targeted a lot last season for a reason though ( I suspect ). Hard to say if he was dropping a lot of balls or if he was just worked out of the game plan to make Carr's progressions faster?!?! Don't know.
---

Daniels has a lot of injuries!! Yikes.

Owen Daniels has torn the left ACL in his knee twice and the left MCL once.

from Footballguys.com

 

[BlueThunder]

I think will carry 3 on the 48 and 1 extra on the 52 the rest will mostlikely go to the practice squad...we get a few exemptions for Europe so expect a TE to be hidden there...We have FB and 3d back so we can carry up to 3 TB there..I'm just not sure Lundy will be able to help but may have a place on the 52..that is if we bring in a Stephen Davis Bennett or Fred Taylor..

Check this out for a power run

Dominuque Davis ///the battle in camp Antwain Smith & Stephen Davis & Wali Lundy

Theres going to be one heck of a battle for that number 3 and 4 spot at TE..

 

[HOU-TEX]

yeah

Johnson - Joppru - Putzier - Moulds is what I expect to see ( right now )

Bruener I think has the hands, but not the speed/quickness. He wasn't targeted a lot last season for a reason though ( I suspect ). Hard to say if he was dropping a lot of balls or if he was just worked out of the game plan to make Carr's progressions faster?!?! Don't know.
---

Daniels has a lot of injuries!! Yikes.


from Footballguys.com

If memory serves me correct, I don't think Bruener was ever brought in to be a receiving TE. I beleive it was to block from the begining. I think that was the bandaid the previous coaching staff put on the line instead of improving the linemen.

 

[TwinSisters]

If memory serves me correct, I don't think Bruener was ever brought in to be a receiving TE. I beleive it was to block from the begining. I think that was the bandaid the previous coaching staff put on the line instead of improving the linemen.

Yeah?!?! I don't know.. I guess Capers was thinking that he could grind out some wins on the ground like Cowher's squad. It's not like our blocking line has been that bad. ( which in turn makes the Carr riddle all that more intriguing )

 

[HOU-TEX]

Yeah?!?! I don't know.. I guess Capers was thinking that he could grind out some wins on the ground like Cowher's squad. It's not like our blocking line has been that bad. ( which in turn makes the Carr riddle all that more intriguing )

Yea, I've read a little on the zone blocking scheme and one thing kind of stood out to me. I think the link has been posted on here before. I beleive it said the zone blocking was good for run but suffered a bit in the passing catagory, hence the reason for a running QB. I guess that's where the single and double TEs come in huh?

 

[real]

Yea, I've read a little on the zone blocking scheme and one thing kind of stood out to me. I think the link has been posted on here before. I beleive it said the zone blocking was good for run but suffered a bit in the passing catagory, hence the reason for a running QB. I guess that's where the single and double TEs come in huh?

IMO, pass blocking is pass blocking whether you are running man or zone blocking...I don't really see how your run blocking scheme will have much of an impact on your pass pro...If someone is going to get beat or doesn't know their assignment it leads to a sack regardless of what run blocking scheme you use...The only difference it will make in the passing game is in play actions, and bootlegs, and IMO those two types of plays make a linemans job easier...

 

[Runner]

Yea, I've read a little on the zone blocking scheme and one thing kind of stood out to me. I think the link has been posted on here before. I beleive it said the zone blocking was good for run but suffered a bit in the passing catagory, hence the reason for a running QB. I guess that's where the single and double TEs come in huh?

IMO, pass blocking is pass blocking whether you are running man or zone blocking...I don't really see how your run blocking scheme will have much of an impact on your pass pro...If someone is going to get beat or doesn't know their assignment it leads to a sack regardless of what run blocking scheme you use...The only difference it will make in the passing game is in play actions, and bootlegs, and IMO those two types of plays make a linemans job easier...

One negative that zone blocking can have on pass blocking is in personnel. If you build your line with light, quick offensive lineman to zone block, their pass blocking may suffer compared to a heavier line.

 

[real]

One negative that zone blocking can have on pass blocking is in personnel. If you build your line with light, quick offensive lineman to zone block, their pass blocking may suffer compared to a heavier line.

That may be true...But it may not be...Being heavier doesn't make you a better pass blocker than someone lighter...But that wasn't my point I was just reffering to scheme...If you start talking personnel then it gets redundant...i.e...If we had the top five lineman in the leauge it probably wouldn't matter what blocking scheme we ran...I was just saying IMO, the actual zone blocking system doesn't put you at any lesser of an advantage pass blocking wise...

 

[TwinSisters]

I don't think our line was that light was it?

Plus just talking about the Colts ( and not the other 30 Teams ), they didn't use a lot power-in-weight to bag Carr as much as they used power-in-speed.

 

[Runner]

I don't think our line was that light was it?

Plus just talking about the Colts ( and not the other 30 Teams ), they didn't use a lot power-in-weight to bag Carr as much as they used power-in-speed.

No ours wasn't light in years past, but it's getting lighter this year. Salad was diappearing at an alarming rate during OTA and mini-camp lunches!

I was talking about the zone blocking scheme in general. Given equal talent/scheme I think a heavier lineman (up to a point) can pass protect better. Of course, quick and big would be ideal...

 

[HOU-TEX]

It appears to me that for a lineman to have decent speed it sacrifices size. Our line was kind of big and not very fast (Seth Wand) So, I guess I can see ya'lls point, the line has to be quick for zone run blocking, but being lighter sacrifices size and strength for pass blocking. Correct?

 

[Texans Horror]

It appears to me that for a lineman to have decent speed it sacrifices size. Our line was kind of big and not very fast (Seth Wand) So, I guess I can see ya'lls point, the line has to be quick for zone run blocking, but being lighter sacrifices size and strength for pass blocking. Correct?

Have you considered the option of a big and fast lineman (i.e., Seth Wand)? That fits perfectly into a zone blocking scheme.

 

[the wonger need food]

Have you considered the option of a big and fast lineman (i.e., Seth Wand)? That fits perfectly into a zone blocking scheme.

Probably the reason this coaching staff is so intrigued by Wand. At his combine he ran the fastest 3-cone drill of any Tackle in the draft.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Have you considered the option of a big and fast lineman (i.e., Seth Wand)? That fits perfectly into a zone blocking scheme.

Maybe I'm mistaken or it could've been a few mishaps on who was blocking who, but I beleive I remember him getting burned several times around the outside. Was it someone else I'm thinking about? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TwinSisters]

I was talking about the zone blocking scheme in general. Given equal talent/scheme I think a heavier lineman (up to a point) can pass protect better. Of course, quick and big would be ideal...

I agree. All things being equal, weight wins. That's just a physics fundamental.

I think part of what makes the line work in Denver is that they use 'market devalued lighter lineman' to be able to keep their unit under contract for an extended period ( thus being able to play better together as a unit and utilize the extra amount of training/practice time that it takes to get a zone scheme to work properly ).

 

[real]

I don't think our line was that light was it?

Plus just talking about the Colts ( and not the other 30 Teams ), they didn't use a lot power-in-weight to bag Carr as much as they used power-in-speed.

Having played OT all of my football life...Speed doesn't help the defender much...and I dont like to use the word speed when it comes to lineman...lets use quickness.....A defensive ends best asset is his ability to get you off balance...most lineman in the NFL have enough speed/quickness to kick step back and get in a defenders way...But not all lineman have the technique to hold the defender at bay at the point of attack...And yes size does help...longer arms..but size can also be a disadvantage because just like you are assuming being smaller makes you quicker, you should then assume being bigger would slow lateral movement which is important...IMO, too much is being read into this...With the right technique you will be surprised what you can make up for...

 

[HOU-TEX]

Having played OT all of my football life...Speed doesn't help the defender much...and I dont like to use the word speed when it comes to lineman...lets use quickness.....A defensive ends best asset is his ability to get you off balance...most lineman in the NFL have enough speed/quickness to kick step back and get in a defenders way...But not all lineman have the technique to hold the defender at bay at the point of attack...And yes size does help...longer arms..but size can also be a disadvantage because just like you are assuming being smaller makes you quicker, you should then assume being bigger would slow lateral movement which is important...IMO, too much is being read into this...With the right technique you will be surprised what you can make up for...

Would a DE speed/quickness around the outside throw a T off balance? I was 6'5" at only 200 pds when I played DE in school. The only thing I had to get the T off balance was a quick rush on the outside. The times those guys were able to keep up were the times I........well let's just say I was out of the play.

 

[real]

Would a DE speed/quickness around the outside throw a T off balance? I was 6'5" at only 200 pds when I played DE in school. The only thing I had to get the T off balance was a quick rush on the outside. The times those guys were able to keep up were the times I........well let's just say I was out of the play.

Well in all honesty, I would like to have considered myself one of the better OT's in Texas the year I came out...Not trying to brag, just setting the stage.... But if your only move was a quick outside rush then you would have had a frustrating game against me or anyone else who was pretty good...One way defenders get OT off balance is a move i call the push n pull...Basically its a bull rush, then when you feel the tackle leaning on you to slow you down you just pull, and swim move...That is a begginers move...Im just saying that speed isn't what kills an OL in pass pro...its technique

 

[Texans Horror]

Maybe I'm mistaken or it could've been a few mishaps on who was blocking who, but I beleive I remember him getting burned several times around the outside. Was it someone else I'm thinking about? Correct me if I'm wrong.

unfortunately, most of our tackles were burned on the outside more often than not. The one DT Wand seemed to have trouble with was Dwight Freeney, and has been pointed out before, he was going against the guy one-on-one, which is very rare. Just about every team who plays Indy has had to put two men on Freeney. So no, Wand doesn't have that history.

 

[TwinSisters]

Freeney was one of those guys past over for being too much of a featherweight also ( at least back in the day )

He's like 260 something ( close to a tight end )

http://www.dwightfreeney.com/

he's got some video up on his website.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Well in all honesty, I would like to have considered myself one of the better OT's in Texas the year I came out...Not trying to brag, just setting the stage.... But if your only move was a quick outside rush then you would have had a frustrating game against me or anyone else who was pretty good...One way defenders get OT off balance is a move i call the push n pull...Basically its a bull rush, then when you feel the tackle leaning on you to slow you down you just pull, and swim move...That is a begginers move...Im just saying that speed isn't what kills an OL in pass pro...its technique

Well, you obviously have more experience than I do. I'd brag if I went to Texas. Doesn't technique involve speed/quickness? I mean, you can have all the technique in the world but if you're not quick on your feet making the moves (swim, rip, spin, etc.) during your rush then what's the point?

 

[real]

Well, you obviously have more experience than I do. I'd brag if I went to Texas. Doesn't technique involve speed/quickness? I mean, you can have all the technique in the world but if you're not quick on your feet making the moves (swim, rip, spin, etc.) during your rush then what's the point?

Ha ha...No i didn't go to UT...I meant coming out of high school... but anyways about your question....Don't get me wrong...Speed, quickness, and all those physical attributes definitely give you an edge...however, they don't make or break you as a player...or better yet an offensive lineman...Besides in the NFL, almost all are freaks athletically...

 

[HOU-TEX]

Ha ha...No i didn't go to UT...I meant coming out of high school... but anyways about your question....Don't get me wrong...Speed, quickness, and all those physical attributes definitely give you an edge...however, they don't make or break you as a player...or better yet an offensive lineman...Besides in the NFL, almost all are freaks athletically...

Allrightythen, good one.

I agree