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Merriman ran a 4.6 at his pro day...

U

UberDork

Waterboy
Merriman weighed in at 274 and he ran a 4.6 and on top of that he had a 40" verticle at his pro day today...he had 25 reps at the combine...wow

LINK

Sorry I forgot to put the link
 
you know the ironic thing about Merrimen? all of the Peek supporters to get him on the field seem to want the team to draft Merrimen
 
Does anyone out there besides me wonder how Merriman would do in the middle...perhaps the buc spot...Has anyone watched him?...he did play a little linebacker right?...Has anyone seen him in coverage?
 
I like Merriman a lot. But I thought he can play inside too. I have a feeling that we'll draft a linebacker with our first pick.
 
texansfan88 said:
you know the ironic thing about Merrimen? all of the Peek supporters to get him on the field seem to want the team to draft Merrimen
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Thats not true, i for one an not for it cuz this team doesnt need the most help outside. I believe peeks stats from his workout were not too far off from merrimens
 
If he can play inside I am all for him, I honestly dont know much about him so I cant say. I think for now we have almost too many OLB. We have 3 potential starters and some able backups so I rather draft someone who can play inside and play next to Greenwood supposing Sharper doesnt return.
 
Here are what I think are Peek's combine numbers

Antwan Peek (6-1¼, 247, 4.52/40, 4.33/SS, 7.06/3-cone, 21/BP, 37"/V, 10’5"/LJ) | Cincinnati

If Merriman were able to play inside....I would be VERY excited about speed at our LB spots...And the thing about Merriman is that he is almost 30 pounds heavier...
 
Antwan Peek

CAMPUS AGILITY TESTS
4.54 in the 40-yard dash (4.63 hand-held) … 2.57 in the 20-yard dash … 1.56 in the 10-yard dash … 36-inch vertical jump … 10-foot-5 broad jump … 1,625-pound leg press … 775-pound squat … 375-pound bench press … Bench presses 225 pounds 24 times … 370-pound squat … 6.7 percent body fat … Right-handed.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
Thats not true, i for one an not for it cuz this team doesnt need the most help outside. I believe peeks stats from his workout were not too far off from merrimens
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Its not just the workout numbers that make Merriman such an attractive prospect. The guy also has much skill and intensity. Here is a draft analysis from NFL.com:
A rare talent with the ability to play away from the line as a strong-side linebacker, off the edge as a rush end or in a three-point stance as a down lineman. He has excellent quickness and explosion off the ball. Merriman is more productive when allowed to roam the field. He has the flexibility, knee bend, agility and speed to make plays down the line, string out the run and shoot the gaps with suddenness.

He might be better suited to play outside linebacker at the next level; he has the short-area speed and burst to mirror and reroute tight ends and backs on pass routes. Shawne possesses a solid build with good strength and superb leaping ability. His lower-body strength and strong anchor allow him to hold his ground at the point of attack when lined up as a down lineman. He gets off the line with a sudden burst and shows the awareness to recognize blocking schemes. When he gets clear air into the backfield, he will instantly get to the quarterback.

He will sometimes struggle to defeat blocks working in-line, but is very active with his hands and shows good second effort. He has the power base to hold ground at the point of attack and is effective using his hands to split double teams. His long reach lets him maintain separation from blocks and he is a solid wrap-up tackler in space. He uses his hands to swat and swim with great effectiveness.

Merriman looks very fluid in his pass drops and utilizes his leaping ability to bat down a fair share of short passes at the line of scrimmage. He is still developing a feel in pass coverage, but has good hip snap and acceleration coming out of his backpedal. He closes with desire coming off the edge and his burst lets him sift through traffic to make plays from the backside. His above-average range and ability to take proper pursuit angles is evident when working in space.

He is a smash-mouth type of tackler who can fill the holes or redirect the outside runs back inside. He is very active with his hands, doing a nice job of fighting and shedding blocks to plug the running lanes. His explosive initial step and ability to anticipate the snap count lets him penetrate into the backfield with explosion. He is very effective at breaking down in the open field, extending his arms to wrap and secure as a tackler. Merriman plays until the whistle, but needs to operate with less of a reckless nature; his penchant for sacrificing his body to make the play has led to several minor injuries that affected his play.

For a player of such a young age, he has a good understanding of zone assignments and despite his size, is sudden in his transition to turn and run with the receivers. He knows how to use his explosiveness to close on the quarterback in a hurry, but will bite on play-action, taking false steps before redirecting. His tall frame comes in handy when he has to play the pass, as he does a good job of timing his leaps to deflect throws at the line of scrimmage.

In a 3-4 defense, he would be an ideal strong-side linebacker. He is developing good hand usage, but can be washed out of the play if an offensive tackle locks on to him due to his limited size as a down lineman. If a team decides to bulk him up, Jason Taylor and Jevon Kearse will have someone to compete with for the sack title before long.
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I know this is nit picky but I thought he was going to slim down from his combine weight to show that he could play OLB and/or DE. Isn't 274 a little heavy for a LB. Any ways I doubt he'll last till the 13th pick because he is probably the #1 DE now.
 
I don't care if he can play inside or not, if he falls to 13 I'd rush my card to the podium and snag him asap.
 
I don't care if he can play inside or not, if he falls to 13 I'd rush my card to the podium and snag him asap.
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agreed, i like what i've read about him moreso than what i've seen of DJ. 274lbs, 4.6 40' and 40" vertical while maintaing "flexibility, knee bend, agility and speed"...yes please :thumbup
 
Vinny said:
I don't care if he can play inside or not, if he falls to 13 I'd rush my card to the podium and snag him asap.
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I agree. This guy was meant to rush the QB from the OLB spot. There are so many 3-4 teams that could take him before us which kinda sucks.

Dallas could use him. San Diego could use him. Although they just signed Foley to a 3 year deal.
 
I would be estatic if the Texans managed to trade up and snag this guy. I don't think he'll be at 13 though.
 
DJ is the best Defensive Player in the draft. What are you talking about J. To compare Merrimen to DJ is like comparing Lawrence Taylor to Willie McGinest. That is just not smart. DJ's whole career was based on making playes Merrimen was a filler and pass rusher. He made plays but you cannot compare the best to someone else. This is the type of hype that gets you to pick someone like David Pollack with the 13th pick.
 
Peeks wonderlic score was 13, just about smart enough to go outside to get the paper. This is one of the reasons that he may not be a full time starting OLB. I'm a major proponent to having smart players and I may emphasize the wonderlic more than I should, but a 13???

I'm not as high on Merriman as most of you all and would like to see us take a conventional ILB, not a tweener in the 1st 3 rounds. Guys that have been a LB before such as Channing or Grigsby. There are a lot of tweeners this year so if warranted we can pick one up in the later rounds, not the 1st.
 
SESupergenius said:
I'm not as high on Merriman as most of you all and would like to see us take a conventional ILB, not a tweener in the 1st 3 rounds. Guys that have been a LB before such as Channing or Grigsby.
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Hasn't Merriman only been a DE one year? He was a LB in HS and for the 1st two years of college I thought.
 
SESupergenius said:
Peeks wonderlic score was 13, just about smart enough to go outside to get the paper. This is one of the reasons that he may not be a full time starting OLB. I'm a major proponent to having smart players and I may emphasize the wonderlic more than I should, but a 13???
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What is it with you people that act like you are the smartest people in the world. Its one test score. If the guy is that stupid he wouldnt have been drafted. Besides, how many hall of famers have there been that are rocket scientists and doctors? You do not have to be a second coming of einstein to play in the NFL. If being smart was a better attribute than being physically talented then maybe I would be in the NFL, but thats not the case. Like ive said before if you are going to insult someones intelligence, then maybe you should have at least talked to them at least one time in your life. Until you are passing through the combine with 4.5 speed, benching 250 pounds 24 times, and can jump over 35 inches, and do well on the wonderlic test, then you can complain about someones intelligence in the NFL. And to tell of his athletic ability, in high school he beat out multiple McDonalds all americans in a dunk contest down in Florida, and he played basketball for Bob Huggins at UC. Ive seen teh guy put a stick-back dunk in with his arm pit at the same level as the rim. Thats an athlete.
 
yeah the woderlic means little to nothing, it can't possibly forecast parking your new fully loaded CADILLAC ESCALADE with the keys left in it running whilest you leave the area for an extended period of time in a busy area :wacko:
 
There is a bit of debate in the NFL community about the wonder-lick. Some think that this test is really only applicable to QB's and Offensive linemen as far as a tool used to forecast a players viability.
 
How productive was Mamula in college? How high was he projected before working out?

Not trying to say Merriman is the next Mamula, but for him to go shooting up the boards because of a 40 time and a vertical seems a little drastic.(He's already pretty high in the draft because of production though, so it's more than likely a totally different scenario)

That said, I wouldn't complain about him being taken at 13 even one little bit.
 
Merriman was alreay highly thought of. People just had him rated lower because they didn't know if he was heavy enough to play end as a DE in a 4-3 (what most teams run). Since he came in at 272 those questions were answered.
 
Merriman is going to be a monster for what ever team he plays for. He reminds me of a super athletic Willie McGinest. If he pans out like McGinest did, he will be a pro bowler in no time.
 
Yea, I knew he was already a top prospect. I think it was more wishful thinking that some team will get Mamula thoughts in their head and he will drop to 13 for us.
 
I think the cowboys have him locked in as their 1st 1st round pick if he is available. they solved the CB problem in FA as well as their NT for a 3-4 with te signing of Ferguson.
Parcells drafted One Lawrence Taylor who had similar athletic ability. Look for Parcells to repeat history.
 
outofhnd said:
I think the cowboys have him locked in as their 1st 1st round pick if he is available
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He is pretty much a lock to go at 11 unless the Cowboys trade for Darren Howard...If that happens, they'll stay a 4-3 team and would have no use for Merriman...

If Shawne is there at 13, I'm not sure we take him...I'd rather unleash Peek on the outside at use the 13 on someone else, unless we think one of them could play inside...
 
For the record, the NFL.COM website is reporting that Merriman's 40 times
are closer to 4.70 than 4.60 and one of his timed sprints was only 1/100
< 4.7. If we are going to make such a fuss about 40 times, lets be accurate
about the time. But still very impressive for a 274 pounder. Also, its BPA
and not BAA(Best Athlete Available). We're looking ffirst for football players
and then athletes.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#md
 
texansfan88 said:
you know the ironic thing about Merrimen? all of the Peek supporters to get him on the field seem to want the team to draft Merrimen
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I think the main thing these fans want is a true pass-rush starting ROLB. We haven't had one yet.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
Its one test score. If the guy is that stupid he wouldnt have been drafted........... And to tell of his athletic ability, in high school he beat out multiple McDonalds all americans in a dunk contest down in Florida, and he played basketball for Bob Huggins at UC. Ive seen teh guy put a stick-back dunk in with his arm pit at the same level as the rim. Thats an athlete.
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Oh please. You starting to sound like a drama queen. Dunking a basketball has nothing to do with playing football, so really it doesn't mean squat. No one is doubting his athletic ability, but to counter your take on athleticism, since Peek is such a phenominal athlete then why is he not a starter? Why can't he last a half a season? Why isn't Peek calling the defensive adjustments if intelligence is not essential?

Like I said, maybe I put too much emphasis in the wonderlic, but you seem to be putting too much into his dunking abilities.
 
SESupergenius said:
Like I said, maybe I put too much emphasis in the wonderlic, but you seem to be putting too much into his dunking abilities.
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Dunk you very much - Chocolate Thunder
 
Vinny said:
There is a bit of debate in the NFL community about the wonder-lick. Some think that this test is really only applicable to QB's and Offensive linemen as far as a tool used to forecast a players viability.
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I thought most teams only looked for extraordinarily low or extraordinarily high scores. Everything in between is considered "normal".
 
The players with the highest average scoring positions are quarterbacks, offensive linemen, and receivers or tight ends. The lowest are defensive line, defensive backs, and then linebackers. So of course QB's and Olinemen are going to be thought of as the only ones that are affected by the outcome of the test. But I think that defensive players, especially play calling LB's need to have good smarts about them.
 
SESupergenius said:
...But I think that defensive players, especially play calling LB's need to have good smarts about them.
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I'll go with that. But how does a standardized test tell you anything about a player's ability to recognize offensive formations and make adjustments? There's no correlation. The best methods of determining a football player's smarts are watching tape & interviewing.
 
Lucky said:
I'll go with that. But how does a standardized test tell you anything about a player's ability to recognize offensive formations and make adjustments? There's no correlation. The best methods of determining a football player's smarts are watching tape & interviewing.
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let it go, its just another facet to the madness of making the best possible buisness decison with your money like any other investment-

http://www.wonderlic.com/promotion/nfl_article.asp
 
I'm not saying let go out and draft Hangartner just because he has a spectacular wonderlick score. With that being said, I think the minimum wonderlic score for a ILB would be 20.

So IMHO the top ILB of the draft would be as follows:
Channing Crowder (30 wonderlick score)
Adam Seward (33)
Robert McCune (20)
 
beerlover said:
let it go...
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No, I think I have a little more to say. Thank you, very much.

Sample questions from the Wonderlic Personnel Test:

When rope is selling at $.10 a foot, how many feet can you buy for sixty cents?

Assume the first 2 statements are true. Is the final one:
1 true, 2 false, 3 not certain?

The boy plays baseball.
All baseball players wear hats.
The boy wears a hat.

Paper sells for 21 cents per pad. What will 4 pads cost?

RESENT RESERVE — Do these words
1 have similar meanings, 2 have contradictory meanings, 3 mean neither the same nor opposite?
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And you think these questions will help determine which player to select in the draft? That's insane.
 
I don't put too much stock in wonderlic scores unless it is regarding QB's or offensive linemen. Ed Reed didn't fair too well on the wonderlic and I think he's turned out fine so far.
 
Lucky said:
And you think these questions will help determine which player to select in the draft? That's insane.
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They don't have a direct correlation per se, but for the flip side I would expect my 3rd grade daughter to get all those questions correct. At some point a team may conclude if a player can't answer questions like that after 16+ years of education then they are dumber than a box of rocks and it will be incredibly hard to teach them complex schemes, etc. beyond their natural football instincts. It is one thing to be told cover between the hashmarks and kill whoever has the ball (natural football instincts/experience may get you through that just fine) and entirely another to within a weeks time watch game film of Manning and be given an option tree of 80 different calls to be made based on whether he wiggles his nose, stomps three times, moves the RB over 2 feet, (joking examples, but you get the point) etc. within a week. Seems to me its applicability has a lot to do with both the position and the particular responsibilities each team puts on the position.
 
Lucky said:
No, I think I have a little more to say. Thank you, very much.

Sample questions from the Wonderlic Personnel Test:



And you think these questions will help determine which player to select in the draft? That's insane.
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Yea i guess they should just chuck the wonderlic test, it really doesn't do much to see if you are smart or not.

In fact, lets chunk the whole combine. I mean really, what does bench pressing 225 pounds 30 times have to do with football, its not like all the players in the NFL are 225 pounds and stand on top of you for you to get them off....30 times.

Lets go ahead and chuck the 40 times, because really, what does running in a straight line without pads and defenders in from of you show you??

and seriously, can we just go ahead and toss out the verticle jumping, this aint basketball.

........we that ends that topic. Nice analysis Lucky! :thumbdown
 
I'm all for an intelligence test, but some of those questions look like something from my 5th grade TAAS test. Not to mention that have asbolutely zero to do with football. What's sad, is despite the similarity to the (very easy) TAAS test, so many players still do horribly on it. Of course, that's only a small sample of questions so many they get a little harder? I don't really know. But then, we also spent an extremely disproportionate time reviewing for the TAAS test (and as a result did worse on many of our finals, which are what counted much more to our own grade, higher TAAS grades = more money for the schools)

Ok, enough about TAAS ****, never taking that again, I'm sick of talking about it.

I guess the point of the standardized wonderlic test is to see how you relate to other guys with cobwebs for a brain, and not necessarily your own intelligence. How do they grade the test? If you get a 6 for example, (Frank Gore), is that because you got 6 of ## correct?
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
If you get a 6 for example, (Frank Gore), is that because you got 6 of ## correct?
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Here is an article on the Wonderlic--you can take a mini-version. There are normally 50 questions to be completed in 12 minutes. The questions do have varying degrees of difficulty. A score of 20 is supposed to indicate an IQ of 100 or average. The average for NFL players is 21.

Keep something in mind in this discussion--IQ testing is meant to measure the ratio of mental age to chronological age with the norm being aftificially designed as 100. An 8 year old that has been tutored its whole life may measure 180 based on stuffing more learning in early and then quit and norm out down the road and vice versa someone who slacked their whole way in school may test badly and then apply themselves later in life and score well. It's a tool, not some kind of measure of inherent intelligence.


Link
 
SESupergenius said:
Oh please. You starting to sound like a drama queen. Dunking a basketball has nothing to do with playing football, so really it doesn't mean squat. No one is doubting his athletic ability, but to counter your take on athleticism, since Peek is such a phenominal athlete then why is he not a starter? Why can't he last a half a season? Why isn't Peek calling the defensive adjustments if intelligence is not essential?

Like I said, maybe I put too much emphasis in the wonderlic, but you seem to be putting too much into his dunking abilities.
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THe whole point is that everyone is all over Merrimen for his stats in jumping, 40s and his strength. I would venture to say that most poeple havent even seen him play, and that they want him from what they read. The point with the dunking is that if thats all people want to see is an athlete then this team already has one. And the reason he doesnt start isnt his athletic ability, refer back to Capers quotes. He has been hurt two times, ones making a play in cincinnati in 2003 and last season stretching out to score a touchdown that he returned 60 yards. Are you really going to be calling a guy out for trying to score? And he doesnt call adjustment because he is an OLB not an ILB.
 
infantrycak said:
...At some point a team may conclude if a player can't answer questions like that after 16+ years of education then they are dumber than a box of rocks and it will be incredibly hard to teach them complex schemes, etc. beyond their natural football instincts...
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Because Dunta Robinson scored a 13 on the Wonderlic, he should be dismissed as a player who can't learn coverage schemes? It's a fairly large jump in logic to assume that college players haven't been required to study their playbooks and game tape just because they flunk a SAT type test. Maybe you can assume they've spent too much time reading their playbooks and watching game tape and not enough in the classroom.

I'm sure there are players with high IQs succeeding in the NFL. I'm sure there are players with low IQs succeeding in the NFL. Their common denominator is that they each have a grasp on their responsibilities on the football field and that shows on game tape. It's possible teams can glean some info from these tests, just as they can from the sprints & obstacle course results. But this information in the hands of internet scouts & fans is misunderstood & overvalued.
 
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