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Lets Talk TEs...

T

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I posted my love of Warring in his thread but want to have a more in depth conversation about our personnel on the roster and how they fit without clogging up the Warring thread. I'm really excited about our personnel and think the team has finally solved the position and given DW4 a group of TEs he can grow with as he continues his development into the franchise QB to lead this team to Super Bowl glory!

Starting with Warring: 6'5" 252 checks off all the boxes for size/athleticism.

I think he's the jewel of this group. He has the upside to be the Texans' version of Kelce/Kittle/Gronk and the QB to feed him. He can block, he can catch, he has the size and athleticism to do anything the coaches ask of him on the football field. I likened him to the Justin Reid pick last draft. The team had greater needs on the board but had an opportunity to take a player who can be a star and core player for this team. You have to take that guy.

Jordan Akins: 6'3" 249 size/athletic profile of a move TE

Akins was miscast last season due to the issues on the OL. He was left in to block rather than allowing the team to utilize his greatest strength as a seam stretcher and matchup problem for defenses. His size/athleticism is very comparable to Aaron Hernandez and he needs to be deployed as such. Do not leave him in to block, split him out wide, move him around and get him matched up with slower LBs in coverage. I think with the personnel changes on the OL/TE room along with a hopeful philosophical shift with Carl Smith to get more quick passes the team can take advantage of Akins skillset to get chunk plays and 3rd down conversions. His final year at UCF 43.7 percent of his catches went for 20 plus yards. Looking through his game logs he did not have a game with more than 2 catches on the season. But he did have 3 games with a 20+ yard gain and a 4th with an 18 yarder. He can make plays if used correctly but his game is best suited for between the 20s.

Jordan Thomas 6'6" 265 and Darren Fells 6'7" 270: blocking TE/redzone specialist

I have put Thomas and Fells together because I think they are extremely similar not only in size/athletic profile but how the team plans to use them. Fells is one of the best blocking TEs in the league despite having no college football experience and being a basketball convert. Not only that his success rate as a redzone TD specialist is very impressive. Using his size to box out smaller defenders and win jump balls. Last season Baker Mayfield only targeted Fells 9 times... but he caught 8 of them including 3 TDs.

https://twitter.com/pff_browns/status/1091320262635577344

I see no reason why Jordan Thomas cannot develop into this same type of player, despite being mainly a WR in college. He showed marked improvement in blocking his rookie season and I expect him to make a tremendous jump in that area in year 2. Like Fells, his redzone efficiency was pretty impressive. Catching 20 passes last year but with 4 going for TDs. I think Fells is here to mentor Thomas. The team wants Thomas to fulfill that role. Interested to see if Fells will make the team as a 4th TE or if Thomas will show enough in training camp/preseason to give them confidence that he can be the blocking specialist/redzone TE maker that Fells is...

To summarize:

Warring = Do everything TE

Akins = Move TE/chunk gain & 3rd down conversion maker

Thomas/Fells = Blocking TE/Redzone TD maker
 
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All this is great information but on this team here is only one question BoB cares about when it comes to TEs. Can they block every play?
 
The four TE's you mention are all still growing and developing as players. They will hopefully grow with Watson and become more and more vital to the win column. But what about the coaches? Based on what we've seen in past seasons, OB and staff will also have to grow in how to optimize the TE group. It doesn't matter how much the TE group improves if the coaches can't figure out how to best use them.
 
If only this thread title could be a meeting title for the coaches.

Maybe one would pop-off, 'you know they can do more than ole?'
 
I'm on record as not liking the warring pick mostly because I dont think he'll be used enough to warrant a 3. IF we actually utilize 1 te I might be tempted to change my mind. IF we use 2 te sets and prove we can run and pass with that personnel I might be tempted to love the warring pick.

I'll believe it when I see it.
 
powda said:
I'm on record as not liking the warring pick mostly because I dont think he'll be used enough to warrant a 3. IF we actually utilize 1 te I might be tempted to change my mind. IF we use 2 te sets and prove we can run and pass with that personnel I might be tempted to love the warring pick.

I'll believe it when I see it.
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Frankly, I fully expect more double TE sets. The D won't know who's doing what, so they'll have to pick their poison. Are they both blocking? Are they both going out, one a short route and the other a mid route? There are a lot of possibilities. I remember how the Patriots used Gronkowski and Hernandez together to really mess opponents up.
Oh yeah, Ryan Griffin probably won't fit. His value is in his veteran experience, no more.
 
HaveMercy said:
Frankly, I fully expect more double TE sets. The D won't know who's doing what, so they'll have to pick their poison. Are they both blocking? Are they both going out, one a short route and the other a mid route? There are a lot of possibilities. I remember how the Patriots used Gronkowski and Hernandez together to really mess opponents up.
Oh yeah, Ryan Griffin probably won't fit. His value is in his veteran experience, no more.
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Damn, you are an optimist.
 
There's probably no need to say this since we're all mature, sensible, well-balanced adults with a good sense of proper decorum. No Hernandez jokes, please, just in case someone's tempted. The whole story there is way to messed up to be made light of. Sorry, I've been around some folks with no sense of propriety, so maybe I'm being over-sensitive.
Bottom line, I like our TE group, minus Griffin.
 
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HaveMercy said:
Frankly, I fully expect more double TE sets. The D won't know who's doing what, so they'll have to pick their poison. Are they both blocking? Are they both going out, one a short route and the other a mid route? There are a lot of possibilities. I remember how the Patriots used Gronkowski and Hernandez together to really mess opponents up.
Oh yeah, Ryan Griffin probably won't fit. His value is in his veteran experience, no more.
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If we have anything resembling that gronk/Hernandez offense it would be killer (pun intended, sorry.) Defenses had no answer for it and I can't remember anyone else doing it effectively. Couple that with a legit deep threat (will fuller) and a qb who can actually run? It could be a blast to watch.

But again, I'm not holding my breath.
 
HaveMercy said:
Frankly, I fully expect more double TE sets. The D won't know who's doing what, so they'll have to pick their poison. Are they both blocking? Are they both going out, one a short route and the other a mid route? There are a lot of possibilities. I remember how the Patriots used Gronkowski and Hernandez together to really mess opponents up.
Oh yeah, Ryan Griffin probably won't fit. His value is in his veteran experience, no more.
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Patriots, Gronk, Hernandez...

It would be nice if we could get that kind of production out of our TEs. That was a time when that was NE's m.o. basically the rest of the offense piggy backed on them.

We should never see that kind of offense here, because we have Fuller & Hopkins.

If only we had a talented offensive staff that could adjust to our opponent week to week, if not half to half...
 
powda said:
If we have anything resembling that gronk/Hernandez offense it would be killer (pun intended, sorry.) Defenses had no answer for it and I can't remember anyone else doing it effectively. Couple that with a legit deep threat (will fuller) and a qb who can actually run? It could be a blast to watch.

But again, I'm not holding my breath.
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I absolutely like where you're going with that. It could be a nightmare for defenses.

I can imagine Hopkins, Fuller, Coutee, and 2 tight ends. Lots of wonderful options.
 
powda said:
Why?
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Fuller & Hopkins should be the focus of our offense. Especially since our TEs couldn't figure our how to be TEs their first season.

If we can find a TE that knows how to be a TE, maybe he can become a solid third option.

If he can become a a dependable source of offense & our coaches learn to gameplan our opponents, maybe the TEs will be the focus one week, WRs the next, RBs the next.

They shouldn't be our main threat week after week.
 
thunderkyss said:
Fuller & Hopkins should be the focus of our offense. Especially since our TEs couldn't figure our how to be TEs their first season.

If we can find a TE that knows how to be a TE, maybe he can become a solid third option.

If he can become a a dependable source of offense & our coaches learn to gameplan our opponents, maybe the TEs will be the focus one week, WRs the next, RBs the next.

They shouldn't be our main threat week after week.
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Hopkins and Fuller should be the focus until the defenses plans against them. When they do, I'd love to see us make them pay with coutee, the te's, and (caugh, caugh) a running game.
 
thunderkyss said:
Fuller & Hopkins should be the focus of our offense. Especially since our TEs couldn't figure our how to be TEs their first season.

If we can find a TE that knows how to be a TE, maybe he can become a solid third option.

If he can become a a dependable source of offense & our coaches learn to gameplan our opponents, maybe the TEs will be the focus one week, WRs the next, RBs the next.

They shouldn't be our main threat week after week.
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I'm not suggesting that (multiple) tight ends should be our main offensive set, but the possibilities are almost endless. It would give the D an awful lot to think about. I thought it was important to folks on this MB for the Texans to be less predictable.
 
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infantrycak said:
Not getting the urge to emasculate Jordan Thomas at all. Great hands, good routes and feel...let's have him play junior OT.
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Don't get it either. To me, Thomas has just as much receiving ability as any other TE on this roster and his size shouldn't pigeonhole him into any specific role, it's just a added benefit into his untapped potential.
 
I seriously wonder if BoB doesn’t think of a TE as an offensive weapon unless they are a Gronk level TE. Of course that’s like saying you don’t have a QB unless they are Tom Brady. I just don’t see him seriously factoring in the TEs outside of a play or two. Never as serious, consistent targets. That’s fine given how good our WRs can be but stop using picks on them. Grab another RB or add some more depth to the Oline or hell draft someone for the defense.
 
thunderkyss said:
Fuller & Hopkins should be the focus of our offense. Especially since our TEs couldn't figure our how to be TEs their first season.

If we can find a TE that knows how to be a TE, maybe he can become a solid third option.

If he can become a a dependable source of offense & our coaches learn to gameplan our opponents, maybe the TEs will be the focus one week, WRs the next, RBs the next.

They shouldn't be our main threat week after week.
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I agree yet obrien has spent lots of draft capital on them
 
TheKDog said:
I agree yet obrien has spent lots of draft capital on them
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That's great if they use them. Have they ever proven they will? Hence my knee jerk wtf reaction to the warring pick.

I still dont like it but want to be wrong.
 
IMO, the QB/TE combos have not warranted the Texans using the TE more...even over the need to keep extra blockers in...Fido took several years to wake up and become an average NFL TE and then what other TE has demanded through talent to scheme around or force the ball to in any way.

Anyway, I personally don't want the offense to look like BOB's offense has over the last 5 years...I mean we do have a new offensive coordinator and all.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
IMO, the QB/TE combos have not warranted the Texans using the TE more...even over the need to keep extra blockers in...Fido took several years to wake up and become an average NFL TE and then what other TE has demanded through talent to scheme around or force the ball to in any way.

Anyway, I personally don't want the offense to look like BOB's offense has over the last 5 years...I mean we do have a new offensive coordinator and all.
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New coordinator? He's a patsy for OB and the next scapegoat after devlin.
 
powda said:
New coordinator? He's a patsy for OB and the next scapegoat after devlin.
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I wasn't being totally 'serious' about the new offensive coordinator, but ...

We do now have a dude responsible for the offense who is not the HC. If the relationship is what you are suggesting, I would hope that ownership would be smart enough to figure it out and still hold all of them accountable Gaine, BOB, Devine and Kelly, then again BOB was extended after going 4-12
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I wasn't being totally 'serious' about the new offensive coordinator, but ...

We do now have a dude responsible for the offense who is not the HC. If the relationship is what you are suggesting, I would hope that ownership would be smart enough to figure it out and still hold all of them accountable Gaine, BOB, Devine and Kelly, then again BOB was extended after going 4-12
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One can hope.
 
Folks complain when OB is uncreative and predictable, but I'm considering that he's setting the Texans table for a great deal of hard to beat offensive prowess. With two tight ends and our three wide receivers, the match up issues for the opponent's D greatly favor us. I'm not defending the man some folks make unfunny fun of because of his uncommon facial feature (which he didn't choose anymore than I chose an ample nose, so can we get away from the childish name calling?), but I see some new things happening with the Texans. Maybe, just maybe, OB and the brain trust will surprise us. I see that as a strong possibility with the multiple threats availabile via the new TE group.
 
scaredlightheartedcrocodileskink
HaveMercy said:
Folks complain when OB is uncreative and predictable, but I'm considering that he's setting the Texans table for a great deal of hard to beat offensive prowess. With two tight ends and our three wide receivers, the match up issues for the opponent's D greatly favor us. I'm not defending the man some folks make unfunny fun of because of his uncommon facial feature (which he didn't choose anymore than I chose an ample nose, so can we get away from the childish name calling?), but I see some new things happening with the Texans. Maybe, just maybe, OB and the brain trust will surprise us. I see that as a strong possibility with the multiple threats availabile via the new TE group.
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download.jpg
Sorry couldn’t resist :kitten:
 
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banned1976 said:
I can't go to my happy place anymore and not be paranoid since what happened with Robert Kraft.
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Now I know... there's nothing to be paranoid about the kind of happy place I'm thinking of. It's much safer that way.
And to think this all started with nicknames for OB.
 
According to what I've read (State of the Texans? Battle Red Blog?), the new fullback will play a lot on Special Teams and be a part timer with the offense. My guess would be mostly short yardage plays or when rushers are getting through to Watson. Also as an occasional dump off pass catcher. Nothing too fancy and nothing that would preclude heavy usage of multiple tight ends. If he works out, he'll be another piece of the offensive puzzle, just like multiple tight ends will be.
 
And I can imagine RB (or QB ?) sweeps or even an end around with a pulling guard, the fullback, and a tight end or two leading the way. When it works, it's a thing of beauty. The military calls that overwhelming force at the point of attack. So there's a lot of good use for the tight ends and fullback. It's going to be interesting.
 
HaveMercy said:
According to what I've read (State of the Texans? Battle Red Blog?), the new fullback will play a lot on Special Teams and be a part timer with the offense. My guess would be mostly short yardage plays or when rushers are getting through to Watson. Also as an occasional dump off pass catcher. Nothing too fancy and nothing that would preclude heavy usage of multiple tight ends. If he works out, he'll be another piece of the offensive puzzle, just like multiple tight ends will be.
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The fact he played FB in college means next to nothing. He may never take an offensive snap. We haven't had a FB for a couple of years. I can't imagine it was because BO'b & BG couldn't find one, but now find their guy a handful of slots ahead of Mr Irrelevant.
 
HaveMercy said:
And I can imagine RB (or QB ?) sweeps or even an end around with a pulling guard, the fullback, and a tight end or two leading the way. When it works, it's a thing of beauty. The military calls that overwhelming force at the point of attack. So there's a lot of good use for the tight ends and fullback. It's going to be interesting.
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I’ve stopped “imagining” what BoB could do with different personnel groupings. It used to be fun but after about 300 dives up the middle I learned not to think about it.
 
I watched the 2014 season and the Texans barely threw to their TEs. I thought Johnson and Hopkins were getting all the targets and they ignored the TEs.

I then watched the 2015 season where O'Brien, Godsey, the QA guys or any offensive coaches failed again to get the TEs involved in the passing game. This time around, without Andre, the TEs were ignored and the RBs got Andre's targets. Any offensive coach will tell you the TE can be a great safety valve for your QBs. However, O'Brien's offense threw 97 passes to Blue (16), Foster (28), Polk(28), Grimes(31) and Hunt(10) while TEs Griffin(34), Fiedorowicz (24), Garrett(19) were barely involved in the offense.

When it comes to TEs, I don't know O'Brien's offensive philosophy. Even last year, Blue with 27 targets tied with Jordan Thomas (27) and had more than Jordan Akins(25). So when you have TEs on the roster with higher YPC than Blue or even Kevin Mumphrey and you keep ignoring the group, I have to wonder what is his vision for the TE group.

The Texans keep adding talent to the TE group, but if Coutee played in only 6 games and was targeted almost as many times as any TE on the roster, with a healthy Coutee and Fuller will they be ignored again? O'Brien has not shown the ability to consistently get the TEs involved in the passing game.

So, when it comes to the TEs, I'm taking a wait and see approach. I hope he proves me wrong.
 
I still say that he doesn't really know what to do with TEs unless they are Gronk level talent. Since the Texans, and really nobody else, has that then BoB just kind of puts them out there and says "Try and be helpful". I like the Warring pick well enough from a talent and player point of view and on most teams it would have been a great 3rd round pick but from a Texans point of view I don't think it will help us much. What I do keep hoping though is that Watson will get to the point that he picks his own targets and basically the players overcome the play calling. I think BoB is a pretty good HC but he sucks as an OC and sadly right now the OC part is having a bigger impact than the HC part game to game.
 
banned1976 said:
I’ve stopped “imagining” what BoB could do with different personnel groupings. It used to be fun but after about 300 dives up the middle I learned not to think about it.
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Ah, but this year will be different. At least I wishfully hope optimistically with one eye closed and my fingers crossed. And I'm still determined to find more with the Texans to enjoy.
 
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Let the TE festivities begin!

No, really, I'm looking forward to seeing how the Tight Ends are used this year.
 
I was all in last year with he Jordan Akins pick. Was extremely disappointed.

I hope it was misuse by Obien and that Akins is part of the game plan this year.

:coffee:
 
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