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Isn't Ced Benson the Best way to help our Defense?

T

Toxicology

Practice Squad
Disclaimer: I know a lot more about basketball and baseball but consider myself pretty knowledgeable about football as well.

Well, the thread title makes my primary point, but I would also argue that Ced Benson is most likely to have the most net effect on both sides of the ball. If this has already been posted, my apologies b/c I didn't see it.

Primary points to support my argument:

1. I am Captain Obvious: ball control helps our defense, perhaps more than anything else. Particularly against the Peyton Mannings of the world.

2. DD is a good back, but we can't use him as a battering ram. He will wear down. Ced Benson projects to be a Eddie George type of a power back that will thrive between the tackles.

3. On offense, having a power runner will help Carr stay vertical.

4. Benson can pick up blitz packages and would help open things up for Andre Johnson.

5. If we were to draft a Defensive player, say Derrick Johnson, Dem Ware or Merriman, would they make as big as an impact on the defense? I am a huge DJ fan, but I'm not sure he's that sure or much of an upgrade over Wong or Greenwood, two proven NFL players. We do need depth and talent on the D Line, but I think we can get that in later rounds.

My first post after much lurking so let me have it!
 
Could not agree with you more. John McClain said Benson might drop to 13 if Tennessee goes for an Olineman and Arizona trades for Travis Henry eliminating Cardinal need for RB. I also like DJ & Merriman is supposed to be good. I think your apologetics for linebackers is correct. It seems obvious that Casserly is going with Oline & Dline starters as is. My only hesitation would be if Braylon Edwards were available by trade up. Another thread I just read had negative comments on Edwards byt I thought he was supposed to be an Andre Johnson type. To me, Benson & Braylon are only two that I would expect to start AND bring the most benefit to team.
 
I'm quietly hoping Benson slips to us myself. I think he would change the dynamics in how teams defend us. You can't just squat back in a loose cover 2 zone all game with a pounding, hammertime back gashing your defense all game. For instance, Benson would FORCE up the Colts SS instead of laying back 20 yards over the top of a corner. Right now they just sit back and let the front-7 handle Dom.
 
Vinny said:
I'm quietly hoping Benson slips to us myself. I think he would change the dynamics in how teams defend us. You can't just squat back in a loose cover 2 zone all game with a pounding, hammertime back gashing your defense all game. For instance, Benson would FORCE up the Colts SS instead of laying back 20 yards over the top of a corner. Right now they just sit back and let the front-7 handle Dom.
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Not only have I been largely unimpressed with Benson since his freshman season, I think he's been overused and is at great risk for a shorter career.

When looking at his stats, look at how he did against teams with similar talent: Oklahoma, Michigan, Kansas State, LSU, etc... it's very unimpressive.
 
How many yards do you have to gash the Colts for before they do that? DD had 23 carries for about 125 and it didn't open up anything downfield. I don't think Benson will do anything that DD can't do. We need better blocking so that: 1) our guys can actually finish their routes and 2) we can send one extra receiver out instead of leaving him in to block.
 
Dom gets a lot of garbage yardage. I've heard all the arugments on Benson but I trust my eyes. I see another version of Stephen Davis/Eddie George/inside runner and think that Benson is highly elusive and tough to hit in short space. I think he would be ideal for a run oriented team like we have and will open up the offense.
 
I agree with Vinny. I like Dom a whole lot, but he is not really a gamechanger like Benson. To dalemurphy, the reason that his stats were not impressive against those teams you named was because they centered their defensive gameplan on stopping Benson and dared the Longhorns to throw. That worked for Oklahoma, but not against Michigan because Vince Young took over the game with his feet, not his arm. In the NFL, though, if a team centers their defense on Benson alone, Carr would make them think twice (if we had Benson that is).
 
Vinny said:
I'm quietly hoping Benson slips to us myself. I think he would change the dynamics in how teams defend us. You can't just squat back in a loose cover 2 zone all game with a pounding, hammertime back gashing your defense all game. For instance, Benson would FORCE up the Colts SS instead of laying back 20 yards over the top of a corner. Right now they just sit back and let the front-7 handle Dom.
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Vinny hit it right on the head. Benson would change the dynamics of how teams defend us. Although I do like DD he is'nt a big play threat Benson is.In our system you can give the ball to Benson 25-30 times a game and there is a chance of a score or big play every time he touches the ball. That forces the defence to put extra guys in the box ie. a saftey and that opens up things perfectly for a accurate passer with a cannon like Carr's to get the ball in the hands of A.J. or Gaff plus we could still use DD as a hammering type short yardage guy or make use of his excellent hands in the third and five plays.
 
IMO, one of the qualities that Ced has that will make a diiference for our team is his ability to shift while in the hole(line). He has a quick left or right shift that is the kind that allows a back to 'fall forward' for extra yards while being hit or wrapped up. This move also has the potential to make tacklers miss altogether as well. For a big back, he has an extremely good stutter step with just enough swivel in his hips to make tacklers miss when head-up in open space. Additionally, he has the ability to absolutely punish corners who have the misfortune to be one on one against him. He has a stiff arm that most DBs would most likely want to avoid.
His ability to bring hard contact to the defender may also contribute to wearing them down somewhat by the fourth quarter, when fatigue to the D could possibly result in opportunities that might not exist otherwise. DD just doesn't have the arse to punish smaller defenders the way Ced does. Believe me, it takes it's toll by game's end, and also can create tenativeness in tacklers in the open field...
 
michaelm said:
DD just doesn't have the arse to punish smaller defenders the way Ced does.
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DD is one pound lighter than Benson. Benson may very well be an upgrade, but arse won't be the reason for it.
 
DD is one pound lighter but he doesn't have the punishing style that Benson has. Benson is a much more physical runner. However, I won't go out on a limb and say that Benson, especially as a rookie, will be head and shoulders better than DD. DD is a great runner and while he fumbled 4 times in the first two games last season, didn't fumble the remainder of the season. Let's not forget that Benson has some fumbling problems in college also. But you see that with those kind of backs who are constantly fighting for yardage and are carrying tacklers down field.

DD just hasn't proven that he can stay healthy, and that's the main concern. He's great when he's healthy. Benson has proven he can stay healthy and is hard to bring down. I would be very happy if we can land him.
 
infantrycak said:
DD is one pound lighter than Benson. Benson may very well be an upgrade, but arse won't be the reason for it.
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'having arse' is a euphemism for his ability to bring the contact to the tackler in a way that DD just doesn't strike me as having... more of a contrast in what they do, individually, with the arse they each posess.
I will say, however, that after re-reading my post I may have discribed Ced as more of a pure power back than I intended (or he, in fact, is...)

Also, before anyone points out that I (may)have technically mis-used the word euphemism, I am aware of it... but you get the point... :)
 
Do you guys remember the first preseason game that Dom played in last season?... He had about 6 carries for 40 yards or so. But, his attitude was very agressive and punishing. He carried that same attitude and style into the openning weekend and it got fumbled out of him. I also question his ability to stay healthy. However, I have the same questions about every RB in the NFL outside of Ladanian Tomlinson and Shaun Alexander. I'd just much rather give another look at Davis/Hollings and possibly add Shelton or someone in the third or fourth rounds. There's a lot of value there, I think. Mainly because most teams don't have RB as a major need in this draft- yet it's fairly deep in RBs.
 
dalemurphy said:
Do you guys remember the first preseason game that Dom played in last season?... He had about 6 carries for 40 yards or so. But, his attitude was very agressive and punishing. He carried that same attitude and style into the openning weekend and it got fumbled out of him. I also question his ability to stay healthy. However, I have the same questions about every RB in the NFL outside of Ladanian Tomlinson and Shaun Alexander. I'd just much rather give another look at Davis/Hollings and possibly add Shelton or someone in the third or fourth rounds. There's a lot of value there, I think. Mainly because most teams don't have RB as a major need in this draft- yet it's fairly deep in RBs.
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Unless we can get Ronnie Brown!
 
I can agree with what everyone's saying about Sir Domanic Freebie. IMO I think we should see what he can do with a complete o-line. I think we should still see what Dom can do this season.
 
I love Dom and I love what he does for our team. Then again if Benson is there at the 13th pick I say take him no matter what. He is going to be a great back in this league and it would be amazing if he fell to us. I dont like the idea of trading up for him though.
 
Wild Bill said:
DD is one pound lighter but he doesn't have the punishing style that Benson has. Benson is a much more physical runner.
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Davis is going against NFL defenders. Benson is punishing kids from Rice & North Texas. I trust my eyes, also. Benson is not a power runner in George mold. When he met future NFL caliber defenders in the hole, like Lance Mitchell or LaMarr Woodley, Benson went down like a rock. An offensive line that has included NFL & future NFL caliber players such as Mike Williams, Derrick Dockery, Jonathan Scott, & Justin Blalock has blown open massive holes for Cedric against lesser teams. And Benson's shared the field with ubertalents like Roy Williams & Vince Young. The type of athletes who are feared gamebreakers, and Benson has benefited from their presence.

Benson is a boola-boola back. He isn't a good receiver out of the backfield. He was never asked to block. Can Cedric pickup the blitz? Does he even want to? Who knows, that wasn't his role at UT.

If Domanick Davis doesn't have the speed to break big runs in the NFL, then Cedric Benson doesn't have that speed, either. I can't see how handing the rock 25-30 times a game to a guy who can't make a big play is going to change any dynamics. That's the offense the Texans are running now. Benson is a guy who will get a team about 1200 yards on 4 ypc, and come out on 3rd down. Nothing dynamic about that.
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
I can't wait for the DD homers to invade this thread.
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Looks like the invasion came from the other side. Wonder if they sell anti-homer (that would be someone who wants to take a blanketly negative viewpoint of a team's player without providing a cogent argument to support it) roach motels?
 
I already gave my reasons for DD being an average starter. It was in the thread you locked. You know, the same ridiculous thread that had people comparing DD to Emmit Smith and LaDanian Tomlinson. If that isn't homer talk then I don't know what is.
 
Lucky thinks Benson will only be a decent College back. I'm bookmarking this so I can come back and laugh at him.
 
I am a huge Longhorn fan.
I am a big fan of Cedric Benson.
I am not a DD homer.
I think the Texans need to upgrade the RB position.

All the disclaimers aside, I don't think Cedric Benson is going to be a great RB in the NFL and I don't think the Texans should spend a #13 pick on him. He will break tackles better than Davis, but that isn't saying much at all. He is not going to be any more of a home run threat than Davis. He will not evade tackles all that well against NFL caliber players. Benson took a lot of hits at UT and probably doesn't have a whole lot of mileage left.

I will be rooting for Benson where ever he plays, but I hope it isn't for the Texans.
Not if it costs the #13 overall pick.
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
I already gave my reasons for DD being an average starter. It was in the thread you locked. You know, the same ridiculous thread that had people comparing DD to Emmit Smith and LaDanian Tomlinson. If that isn't homer talk then I don't know what is.
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So anyone that uses a well known stylistic comparison rather than some unknown player with a similar style is a homer--brilliant. Real simple here--people use examples they think other people will recognize as a point of reference. Pretty ineffective to use an example no one knows wouldn't you say? If you were honestly reading the posts instead of trying to come up with something silly to belittle them due to lack of ammunition you would understand that. Or then again, maybe you do and just lack ammunition.
 
So you feel comparing DD to Emmit Smith is justified? Thanks, that's all I needed to know. There is no lack of ammunition here. Watching DD stink up the joint for 10 weeks with a 2.8 YPC is all the ammo I need.
 
Vinny said:
Lucky thinks Benson will only be a decent College back. I'm bookmarking this so I can come back and laugh at him.
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Why wait? :)

Then again, what did I say about Cedric that was incorrect or misleading?
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
So you feel comparing DD to Emmit Smith is justified? Thanks, that's all I needed to know. There is no lack of ammunition here. Watching DD stink up the joint for 10 weeks with a 2.8 YPC is all the ammo I need.
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Since you evidently don't understand the difference between a statement involving a phrase such as "is like Emmitt in moving enough to minimize impact" and what you want to read into it such as "is the reincarnation of and will have the same NFL success as Emmitt" then you are right, it's not worth a discussion--geez, my eight year old daughter understand's comparisons of facets vs. the whole.
 
Emmit had everything necessary to be a franchise back. Productivity, consistency, and durability. I don't see the same thing in DD. 6 good games out of a 16 game season isn't going to cut it. DD has nothing in common with Smith besides their size.
 
I don't know why everyone thinks Benson is capable of big breakaways.... he's a grinder, not a dancer.

I wouldn't mind if the Texans picked up Cedric.... the workload is distributed between two backs, everyone is more fresh, everyone can produce more than if they were the single workhorse back.

If Cedric can be decent at pass catching, and can pick up blocks, I say go for it.
 
Emmit had everything necessary to be a franchise back. Productivity, consistency, and durability. I don't see the same thing in DD. 6 good games out of a 16 game season isn't going to cut it. DD has nothing in common with Smith besides their size.
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Emmitt also had that massive O line in front of him...
 
Wild Bill said:
DD is one pound lighter but he doesn't have the punishing style that Benson has. Benson is a much more physical runner. However, I won't go out on a limb and say that Benson, especially as a rookie, will be head and shoulders better than DD. DD is a great runner and while he fumbled 4 times in the first two games last season, didn't fumble the remainder of the season. Let's not forget that Benson has some fumbling problems in college also. But you see that with those kind of backs who are constantly fighting for yardage and are carrying tacklers down field.

DD just hasn't proven that he can stay healthy, and that's the main concern. He's great when he's healthy. Benson has proven he can stay healthy and is hard to bring down. I would be very happy if we can land him.
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well benson isnt going up against some of the Worlds best Defensive players like D.D is, so sure he can punish some players who will never play another day of football after college "cause they are not good enough". Who knows Davis may have been the same in college, EXCEPT nobody really got to see what he could do since he was primarily a special teams guy (SHAME ON HIS COLLEGE COACH), its hard to compare the two IMO.
 
I personally get tired of people saying that a player's production is questionable because his team happened to play a few weaker teams during a given season or that most of his stats were from these games..
Even the best teams in the nation schedule a few Louisiana Techs, or Rutgers, or whatever most seasons. Yes, players obviously play better against most weaker teams most of the time, but that variable applies to all major college players.
In the Benson case, it has been made a point of contention, but I agree with the school of thought that most of the opposing teams filled the box to stop him, daring the Horns to pass, especially last season when their passing game was not what it used to be...
 
Fiddy said:
Should we open up a Davis sub-forum in "The No Spin Zone"???
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Good idea :heh:...For some reason, people get really worked up when DD gets criticized...Oh well, we don't need another RB, this is going to be the year of Tony Hollings! [/ridiculous prediction]
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
DD needs to show more consistency and durability before I think he can handle carrying the load.
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My thoughts exactly... If he goes down for 3+ games next year then we should really start pursuing another running back. Reggie Bush will be available next year.
 
Productivity, consistency, and durability.
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i think we can all agree davis has been quite productive given the circumstances/situation of being on our team. but the other two qualities that you are using to differentiate emmit from domanick can only be taken into account after more time than two seasons. every player goes through some type of slump, but the better one's minimize the difference between their 'up and down' time. yes davis only rushed for 2.8 yds a carry for the first ten games, but he still went for 1188 yds on 3.9 yds a rush when it was all said and done. picking up slack in such a quick amount of time can be attributed to consistency as well, even if it's habitual (not implying it is or isn't with davis thus far).

injuries are also a moot point relative to the length of his very short career thus far. if he stays healthy for the next five seasons the general consinsous will be injuries aren't a factor for him. if he goes down once a year for the next five seasons obviously people will have a different opinion, but that only further proves my point it is too early to label DD with anything relating to health or consistency issues. five years from now discussing these characteristics and how they apply to domanick davis will be alot more valid, but hold little water in passing judgement right now.
 
michaelm said:
I personally get tired of people saying that a player's production is questionable because his team happened to play a few weaker teams during a given season or that most of his stats were from these games..
Even the best teams in the nation schedule a few Louisiana Techs, or Rutgers, or whatever most seasons. Yes, players obviously play better against most weaker teams most of the time, but that variable applies to all major college players.
In the Benson case, it has been made a point of contention, but I agree with the school of thought that most of the opposing teams filled the box to stop him, daring the Horns to pass, especially last season when their passing game was not what it used to be...
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oh i suppose your right,,,i guess my high schools varsity team could play UT and if a 3rd string running back for UT rushes for 300 yards he should be a first rounder,,,LOL that what you are saying ?
 
moot point with his contract coming up do we want to pay him the big bucks considering his good when healthy Bad when hurt performances thus far?
 
outofhnd said:
moot point with his contract coming up do we want to pay him the big bucks considering his good when healthy Bad when hurt performances thus far?
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i'd say we see how he is performing about 8 weeks into the season and if he has been consistent and stayed healthy we offer him a new contract, if not we can decide once the season is over. i mean he has improved season to season and he always seems to run better the second half of the season we need him to run good a whole season !
 
before i start i must say that i am not the biggest dd fan. i think that a rb upgrade could be used but i don't think that benson is the guy. first we would use a first round pick on a position that is the deepest it has been in awhile. second i have never thought that benson was that great. i will say that i don't like ut so i might have some bias, but it seems like he never has a great game in a big game, but then again he plays for ut. i just think that he doesn't have the style we need. cedric is a brusier with a little better speed than dd. dd isn't at the same level as benson but they have similar games. if we get a rb i would like a back to complement dd (i believe we re-sign him) like we tried to do with hollins. also the best way to help our defense it to upgrade our defense.
 
That's not what he was saying at all.... Good teams stacked the box against Benson, if we could get teams in the NFL to do that against us, it would open up the field for our receivers. One of our major problems right now is teams will sit back in the cover 2 and dare us to run, making it difficult for Carr to find an open receiver. If we have a viable threat to gash them for 6 or 7 yards a run while they sit in the cover 2, it will force them to recognize the run, thus opening up the field for AJ and whoever else is running a route. Makes sense to me, and I think of the top 3 backs, Benson fits Capers offensive mentality the best.
 
He's a restricted FA after this season!!! That means that if we want him at all, he'll be here for at least the next two years!
 
TexansTrueFan said:
oh i suppose your right,,,i guess my high schools varsity team could play UT and if a 3rd string running back for UT rushes for 300 yards he should be a first rounder,,,LOL that what you are saying ?
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No, I'm saying that even the best prospect coming out of college at any position has had his stats augmented by playing a few cream puffs along the way. It is pointed out around here occasionally that Benson only produced the way he did because of the easy teams on the Longhorn schedule...
he played in 12 games last year and only 2 teams held him below 141 yds... even when it was obvious that the gameplan was to stop him. Look what happened to Michigan. They planned to take him out of the game, and did, but it cost them. They did hold him to 3.0 ypc

Below I have listed some of the teams that Benson played, the yards per carry that each team gave up on average for the year, and What Ced averaged per carry against that team:

TEAM ---- def. ypc----- Benson ypc against them

Oklahoma ----2.8 ----- 4.0
Arkansas ---- 4.6 ----- 6.5
Rice ------- 4.2 ----- 9.5
Missouri ---- 3.9 ----- 5.4
Texas A&M ----3.4 ----- 5.0
Oklahoma St. ----4.6 ---- 6.1
Colorado -----4.0 ---- 4.4
Kansas ------3.3 ---- 5.8

take it for what you will...

edited to say...That specific enough for you???
 
blockhead83 said:
That's not what he was saying at all.... Good teams stacked the box against Benson, if we could get teams in the NFL to do that against us, it would open up the field for our receivers. One of our major problems right now is teams will sit back in the cover 2 and dare us to run, making it difficult for Carr to find an open receiver. If we have a viable threat to gash them for 6 or 7 yards a run while they sit in the cover 2, it will force them to recognize the run, thus opening up the field for AJ and whoever else is running a route. Makes sense to me, and I think of the top 3 backs, Benson fits Capers offensive mentality the best.
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i will agree that they stacked the box against beson because of young's lack of a passing game. i still was never really impressed with him over his college career.
 
TexansCanes said:
i will agree that they stacked the box against beson because of young's lack of a passing game. i still was never really impressed with him over his college career.
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yeah he reminds me alot of ricky williams, and no not just because of his hair, but even his attitude. And i dont know if i like that to much.
 
Lucky said:
Why wait? :)

Then again, what did I say about Cedric that was incorrect ot misleading?
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Why wait? Unless you can see the future, Benson proves to be more than just a College 'boola-boola' back (embarassing Glanville reference btw) once he starts playing NFL ball. One of the most important qualities in a back is the ability to make people miss. Not all of these guys have it. Benson has it. I just find it hard to believe people can't see that when he runs. I'm going to have to wait for my chuckle.
:thankyou:
 
I looked at the highlight videos from the link in the sticky post and saw plenty of examples of Ced's ability to make people miss, and not just against the lesser teams.
The opposing team doesn't matter so much to me, because I am looking at the move itself and judging it to be the kind of move that will make NFL caliber defenders miss, or at least not get a clean head-up shot in a lot of cases. And to me, it's important that I see evidence of this move while he is still in or behind the line. I referenced it earlier... it will allow him to slide past tacklers for an extra yard or more on many, many occasions.
He may or may not be a threat to break off (m)any 70 yarders, but he is a threat to kill a team if the don't have a plan against him. I am interested in a back who requires another team to try and take him out of the game, not a back who gets most of his stats because a team is game planning to stop AJ...hey... that sounds like DD... :woot

Don't get me wrong, I like DD just as most of you do...BUT... see the above paragraph to determine what I believe the Texans need and what they currently have...
 
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