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I'm sorry, but our DL was fine.

G

gtexan02

Working?
I got a lot of bashing for my post on this thread: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=22754

I was going to reply there, and if a mod wants, this can be moved, but the topic sort of changed into why we didn't need another DL, and so I wanted to go ahead and start this topic. So here we go:

Let me just please say that our DL was fine, and didn't need a 54 million dollar project added to it. Heres why:
A) On our strong side we just signed Weaver, a proven run stopper who got 13 million dollars guaranteed. Thats a lot of money.
B) In the middle we have Payne (dominating force with a huge contract), Smith (see Payne), and Johnson (High 1st round pick, 1st DT taken)
C) On the week side we have both Babin and Peek. Yes, neither have played a down at DE in their respective NFL careers, but neither has Mario Williams. The fact of the matter is that Babin could turn out to be an incredible DE. Look at his college numbers:
2002 - Babin totaled 15 sacks and 26 tackles-for-a-loss last season. Defensive Anchor
2003 - racked up career-high 115 tackles and matched career high with 15 sacks for 71 yards. made 33 stops behind the line of scrimmage

So maybe Williams will turn out to be an incredible DE, but I simply don't buy the "football decision" that we really needed him. In fact, we have the potential to already have a fantastic DL. If anything, we shoul have traded the 1st pick and gotten OL and DBs and LBs.

Our front office refused to pick Bush because they were worried about money and image issues. Instead, they claim we made a football decision and went with Williams. Too bad we already had the potential for an amazing DL and just wasted 54 million on it
 
gtexan02 said:
Our front office refused to pick Bush because they were worried about money and image issues. Instead, they claim we made a football decision and went with Williams.
Click to expand...

So, just to be clear, you're calling Coach Kubiak a liar? :confused:

Our offensive line may have been fine...but now it's better than fine....finer, if you will. :yahoo:

A lot of folks said our running back situation was fine, too, and that we didn't really need Reggie Bush. Obviously, the Texans FO agrees with this perspective.
 
I'm not really calling Kubiak a liar, more like Casserly. And it wasn't a lie so much as an overanalysis. I think Casserly actually convinced himself that our number 1 need was a push rushing specialist DE, even though Williams has similar "potential" to Babin in my opinion.

Basically, I think Casserly convinced himself that A) Bush wasn't durable enough and B) Bush wasn't an every down impact, because of signability and character concerns (the whole house scandal). So what he's doing now is defending his stance, which he believes, but for the wrong reasons. Sorry that didn't make more sense?
 
gtexan02 said:
Our front office refused to pick Bush because they were worried about money and image issues. Instead, they claim we made a football decision and went with Williams. Too bad we already had the potential for an amazing DL and just wasted 54 million on it
Click to expand...

First of all, I don't think you were getting bashed......... some where just saying a DT is not a DE.

Secondly Mario & Reggie agreed to the same $54 million....... the Garunteed might have been a little different, but for Reggie to think he's going to get more than $24 mill is just silly......... if that was the problem. He's already gauranteed more than AlexSmith was last year(Mario is)...... How much more did he need?? If he was serious about $30 mill, it was in hopes that we would trade the pick to NY or something........ and that wasn't happening.

Third...... why is it so hard to believe Kubiak doesn't value a runningback as much as fans do..... once a RB in Denver signs a long term deal, once he gets paid anywhere near $5 mil/yr, he is put on the fastest train leaving Denver..... That's why Kubiak is working sooooo hard to replace DD. He won't get rid of him, until he knows he has a replacement..... see Tatum Bell.....

There ain't nothing wrong with wanting to have a clean image. If there aren't enough kids coming out of college, to put together a 52 man roster squeaky clean roster, then we all worry about football too much.
 
I would love RB, but if we didn't get RB, I still don't think Williams was the best choice. I would rather have Ferguson here than Williams. My main point was that our DL was already looking great (and expensive!), and I think we had more pressing needs elsewhere
 
gtexan02 said:
I would love RB, but if we didn't get RB, I still don't think Williams was the best choice. I would rather have Ferguson here than Williams. My main point was that our DL was already looking great (and expensive!), and I think we had more pressing needs elsewhere
Click to expand...


Ferguson was the only other player that many thought could have been the #1 overall....

He flat out didn't fit what we are going to be doing. On a normal pass blocking team yeah, but he's the wrong kinda guy for Denver.

We were stuck with that #1...... I truly believe we would've traded down if at all possible. Fair value in mind.
 
gtexan02 said:
I'm not really calling Kubiak a liar, more like Casserly. And it wasn't a lie so much as an overanalysis. I think Casserly actually convinced himself that our number 1 need was a push rushing specialist DE, even though Williams has similar "potential" to Babin in my opinion.

Basically, I think Casserly convinced himself that A) Bush wasn't durable enough and B) Bush wasn't an every down impact, because of signability and character concerns (the whole house scandal). So what he's doing now is defending his stance, which he believes, but for the wrong reasons. Sorry that didn't make more sense?
Click to expand...

So, then you're calling this article a lie?

"BACK and to the left...BACK and to the left."
 
gtexan02 said:
I'm not really calling Kubiak a liar, more like Casserly. And it wasn't a lie so much as an overanalysis. I think Casserly actually convinced himself that our number 1 need was a push rushing specialist DE, even though Williams has similar "potential" to Babin in my opinion.

Basically, I think Casserly convinced himself that A) Bush wasn't durable enough and B) Bush wasn't an every down impact, because of signability and character concerns (the whole house scandal). So what he's doing now is defending his stance, which he believes, but for the wrong reasons. Sorry that didn't make more sense?
Click to expand...


Kubiak says that he also came to the same conclusion (picking Williams). How can you blame Casserly but not Kubiak? I know that the conventional wisdom is that CC is on his way out, so he's a convenient target. But please explain how CC merits your wrath without any for Kubiak. I for one am perfectly happy with the pick .... :twocents:
 
gtexan02 said:
Our front office refused to pick Bush because they were worried about money and image issues. Instead, they claim we made a football decision and went with Williams. Too bad we already had the potential for an amazing DL and just wasted 54 million on it
Click to expand...


1. FWIW, according to Casserly (radio interview), moving to the 4-3 we needed more lineman and lineman suited to the scheme. Before he thought we didn't have enough, now he thinks we are fine.

2. Ryan Fitzpatrick

3. Casserly and McNair said it had nothing to do with money. That they were close enough to the money numbers with both players--and thought they could have signed both. You can keep saying it was about the money, but that seems inconsistent with just about every Texans move to date. I am pretty certain it wasn't about the money.

4. It is obvious by his public statements that Bush wasn't terribly enthusiastic about coming to Houston.

5. Ryan Fitzpatrick

6. The draft says a lot about the coach. It is obvious he is looking for smart players, who are very team and football focused. You can tell by who we picked (Ryans) and who we passed on (Simpson, Winston Justice) and what he has specifically said about our draft and about our team.

So many of Reggie Bush's statements and actions are so against team oriented football it is beyond belief. He was more interested in being the #1 pick than selling himself to the Texans. His actions related to the house situation, if even 1/10th of that is true, sure don't look like he cared at all about his teammates at USC, because he knew he eventually was gonna get paid. You can't just talk about being team focused, it has to show in your actions--I find it absolutely ironic that he found out he was not going to be chosen #1 during party where he was gonna be on the cover of the NCAA football game.

It is completely possible to be an exceptionally talented person without exhibiting lots of behaviors that demonstrate that you are a "me first" kinda person. Maybe he is a team oriented guy, but he certainly has had a strange way of showing it.

If Reggie were a smart guy, and a team oriented guy, he would have done everything in his power to sell himself to the Texans. He would have shouted from the mountaintops how much he wanted to play here. But he didn't have to because he was a part of Team Adidas/Subway/Etc.

Being a good teammate and being team focused is a football issue. Not just an image issue.

7. Ryan Fitzpatrick.

8. Oh, and some whining Peyton Manning for good measure.
 
Lets put this in simple terms ... In NO WAY was the D-Line "Fine" prior to the draft ! Anyone who expects Babin and Peek to be anything more than Situational players is dreaming . I like them both better as LB's than DE's ...

This D-line is going to make the whole defense look better by leaps and bounds .... The LB's will be free to make some play's and the DB's wont be in coverage for two years (What it feels like when watching) on every pass play . Opposing QB's will make more mistakes because of better pressure which leads to more turn-overs and less completions and less time on the field for the defense ....

Add to that pass rush the fact that they SHOULD be much improved against the rush w/ the additions of Weaver and Williams ...I could easily see a top 10 defense by mid season .
 
gtexan02 said:
. I think Casserly actually convinced himself that our number 1 need was a push rushing specialist DE, even though Williams has similar "potential" to Babin in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen Babin?

I like Babin better than many, but physically Babin and Williams are so different they could be different species from each other.

Just sayin.
 
Yes Babin and Williams are different sizes, but they have the same strength. Babin was a beast in college (30 sacks in 2 years?) and much more consistent than Williams. Williams presents huge upside in his measureables, but at the moment, THATS ALL THEY ARE!!! I don't get why CONSISTENCY constantly gets thrown out the door for POTENTIAL. Bush was a stud for YEARS, while Williams was a stud for WEEKS. Babin was more consistent than Williams, why will no one give him a chance?
 
PS: Just because everyone claims "it wasn't money" or "it wasn't character" or "it was a football decision" doesn't mean I buy into it. These guys are backed into a corner right now and are in 100% damage control mode. People have been calling and cancelling their season tickets, and they'll do anything to validate their choice. They believe its the best choice for whatever reason, but they want the fans to believe its the best choice for football reasons, whether it is or isnt
 
Texans_Chick said:
Have you ever seen Babin?

I like Babin better than many, but physically Babin and Williams are so different they could be different species from each other.

Just sayin.
Click to expand...

Last year's sack leader, Burgess from the Raiders, is 6-2 260, which is EXACTLY the same build as Babin. So whats your poitn?
 
gtexan02 said:
People have been calling and cancelling their season tickets, and they'll do anything to validate their choice.
Click to expand...

It is actually not that bad. I am trying to get some even better tickets than what I have and so far, nobody is dumping them.

I've been told by ticketing people that the ticket sales are fairly strong. Better than what they thought they would have after last season.

I think some of the desire of the fan base to get Bush was that our offense was so blasted boring and inept looking for so long that we would like to see something that resembles NFL football. Reggie or no, that is gonna happen.
 
Texans_Chick said:
It is actually not that bad. I am trying to get some even better tickets than what I have and so far, nobody is dumping them.

I've been told by ticketing people that the ticket sales are fairly strong. Better than what they thought they would have after last season.

I think some of the desire of the fan base to get Bush was that our offense was so blasted boring and inept looking for so long that we would like to see something that resembles NFL football. Reggie or no, that is gonna happen.
Click to expand...

I was just quoting that article posted earlier from Sporting News. It said there were loads of calls from texans fans cancelling their tickets. Could be wrong
 
CoastalTexan said:
I have a feeling Payne might be cut, that is ALOT of money on the D-line.
Click to expand...

Its not like his bonus will disapear, and cutting two expensive DLs (Walker and Payne) will leave us with 10s of milliions in dead cap space. Why did we need to do this when Payne was still serviceable? Williams forces us to cut him now
 
gtexan02 said:
I was just quoting that article posted earlier from Sporting News. It said there were loads of calls from texans fans cancelling their tickets. Could be wrong
Click to expand...


It just said some fans called to cancel season tickets.
 
I was going to reply there, and if a mod wants, this can be moved, but the topic sort of changed into why we didn't need another DL, and so I wanted to go ahead and start this topic.
Click to expand...

I think you could make a lot better argument in regards to Bush over Williams than by saying that the DL doesn't need any help. I think everybody understands that the Texans DL needed plenty of help -- and I think you know enough about football where you realize that as well. Weaver cannot rush the passer, neither can Cowart, and the rest of the Texans DL did a real poor job at that last year as well. The stats you quote do not indicate last year's performance and the weakness in pressuring the passer is very evident as it resulted in absolutely zero turnovers (and zero wins as well -- see the correlation?) for the first several games of the season. This team desperately needs more pressure on the passer which would result in more turnovers, better field position, more scoring and more wins. I believe you understand that but I also believe you are trying to simply find any reason to justify your stance on Bush. Just sit back and relax -- it really was a good, smart football decision. Really, it was a no-brainer.
 
gtexan02 said:
I'm not really calling Kubiak a liar, more like Casserly. And it wasn't a lie so much as an overanalysis. I think Casserly actually convinced himself that our number 1 need was a push rushing specialist DE, even though Williams has similar "potential" to Babin in my opinion.

Basically, I think Casserly convinced himself that A) Bush wasn't durable enough and B) Bush wasn't an every down impact, because of signability and character concerns (the whole house scandal). So what he's doing now is defending his stance, which he believes, but for the wrong reasons. Sorry that didn't make more sense?
Click to expand...

I like Babin but if he had the same potential as Williams does he would have been a DE to begin with. And they surely wouldn't have gone after Williams in this draft. Secondly, Bush's "character concerns" have little if anything to do with the house scandel in my opinion. It had more to do with him wanting to be the #1 pick more than playing for the Texans. It's about him working out for other teams on his team visits and not for us. It's about him shouting show me the money and i'll have to get used to losing a few games rather than being excited about competing at the top level of his sport and saying how much he's love to play for New York.
 
gtexan02 said:
I would love RB, but if we didn't get RB, I still don't think Williams was the best choice. I would rather have Ferguson here than Williams. My main point was that our DL was already looking great (and expensive!), and I think we had more pressing needs elsewhere
Click to expand...

I can see you wanting Ferguson. I would have been happy with either one. But Ferguson apparently was not as good an OL as Williams was a DE according to the Texans FO. They do this for a living -- I'll accept their assessment. However, like I said previously, there is no way you can say that the DL doesn't need help when it finished 31st out of 32 last year. It was a sieve that RBs ran through and failed to generate either sacks or turnovers. That is the core reason why the team did so poorly -- lack of turnovers. Williams will help both sides of the ball -- he will keep the other team from scoring and his pressure on the QB will result in better scoring position for the offense.
 
Some people around here might even argue with you that RB was fine too with DD and Morency, and that Bush was merely an upgrade. Not my take on it though. I've never been a big DD fan. I like someone that either has raw power or is a home run hitter. DD is neither.
 
I'm not really calling Kubiak a liar, more like Casserly.
Click to expand...

Kubiak with his own mouth said the decision was the right one, so if you condemn Casserly you've got to condemn Kubiak as well. You can bet that Kubiak got a huge say in this because his stake in it is probably higher than Casserly's.
 
Texans_Chick said:
2. Ryan Fitzpatrick

5. Ryan Fitzpatrick


7. Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Click to expand...
Best argument i've heard yet. If that 3rd string newbie could come in and light us up for 300 yards anc a come from behind victory, obviously our D needed more help than the offense did.
 
gtexan02 said:
Last year's sack leader, Burgess from the Raiders, is 6-2 260, which is EXACTLY the same build as Babin. So whats your poitn?
Click to expand...

Raiders run 3-4 as their base defense.

As Casserly said, we needed more and better d-line guys to have a good line in the 4-3.

And throughout the team, Kubiak wants more competition to get the best team on the field. I'm good with that.
 
William.carter said:
Best argument i've heard yet. If that 3rd string newbie could come in and light us up for 300 yards anc a come from behind victory, obviously our D needed more help than the offense did.
Click to expand...

No kidding. He became a Yahoo! Fantasy Sports "Pickup of the Week" after the Texans game........and he never had another "good game" after that.
 
gtexan02 said:
I got a lot of bashing for my post on this thread: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=22754

I was going to reply there, and if a mod wants, this can be moved, but the topic sort of changed into why we didn't need another DL, and so I wanted to go ahead and start this topic. So here we go:

Let me just please say that our DL was fine, and didn't need a 54 million dollar project added to it. Heres why:
A) On our strong side we just signed Weaver, a proven run stopper who got 13 million dollars guaranteed. Thats a lot of money.
B) In the middle we have Payne (dominating force with a huge contract), Smith (see Payne), and Johnson (High 1st round pick, 1st DT taken)
C) On the week side we have both Babin and Peek. Yes, neither have played a down at DE in their respective NFL careers, but neither has Mario Williams. The fact of the matter is that Babin could turn out to be an incredible DE. Look at his college numbers:
2002 - Babin totaled 15 sacks and 26 tackles-for-a-loss last season. Defensive Anchor
2003 - racked up career-high 115 tackles and matched career high with 15 sacks for 71 yards. made 33 stops behind the line of scrimmage

So maybe Williams will turn out to be an incredible DE, but I simply don't buy the "football decision" that we really needed him. In fact, we have the potential to already have a fantastic DL. If anything, we shoul have traded the 1st pick and gotten OL and DBs and LBs.

Our front office refused to pick Bush because they were worried about money and image issues. Instead, they claim we made a football decision and went with Williams. Too bad we already had the potential for an amazing DL and just wasted 54 million on it
Click to expand...

Weaver: run stopping DE. Virtually zero pass rush threat. Slow.

T. Johnson: people on this board keep sticking up for the guy, and I have no idea why. He had a very so-so senior season at FSU, and we absolutely reached to draft him at 16. He is a lazy player who put up extremely limited contribution and time last year, and will play even less this year. This guy isn't impact. He fills the roster until you get better.

Payne: dominating? He's okay. By what basis is he dominating?

R. Smith: 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT. Again he is a run-stopper, hole-plugger. Not fast, not particularly remarkable.

Babin/Peek: both are LBs whom I agree could be used for situational pass rush. However, neither are fast/strong/heavy enough to be in on running plays.

M. Williams: fast/strong/heavy enough to be a dominant run stopper and a dominant pass rusher. Freak of nature.

People want to pitch a fit about passing on Reggie Bush, well, I just don't understand that. Mario is every bit the physical freak of nature that Reggie Bush is. Opposing coaches will be required to gameplan for Mario Williams in much the same way they would Bush. IMO it is a matter of preference and that is fine -- I understand if people would rather watch dominating offense than dominating defense -- but I still fully defend the Williams pick as the right one for the Houston Texans to make.

Reggie is great, and probably will continue to be great in the NFL. But no matter how many times Skip Bayless says it, you don't draft Reggie, "just because he's Reggie." An ignorant argument, and we will see how far it gets New Orleans next year. Hopefully their coaches will be able to utilize him to the fullest.

And this was a football decision. You can call it by any other name, but it was and continues to be a -- and I believe, the correct -- football decision.
 
gtexan02 said:
Yes Babin and Williams are different sizes, but they have the same strength. Babin was a beast in college (30 sacks in 2 years?) and much more consistent than Williams. Williams presents huge upside in his measureables, but at the moment, THATS ALL THEY ARE!!! I don't get why CONSISTENCY constantly gets thrown out the door for POTENTIAL. Bush was a stud for YEARS, while Williams was a stud for WEEKS. Babin was more consistent than Williams, why will no one give him a chance?
Click to expand...

Bush was a "stud" for two years, and he sat out for long stretches of the Rose Bowl, when the national championship was on the line, in favor of Manboobs White. If that doesn't spell inconsistency, I don't know what does. Just because ESPN consistently replays Bush's highlights does not ascribe to Bush anything near the level of consistency you are granting him.

Mario is himself somewhat inconsistent, but do not pretend as if Bush is wonderfully consistent when in fact it is just the media's portrayal of him that is the only thing consistent.

Your arguments are revealing of the sources of your logic. In this case, ESPN and the talking heads.
 
jerek said:
Bush was a "stud" for two years, and he sat out for long stretches of the Rose Bowl, when the national championship was on the line, in favor of Manboobs White. If that doesn't spell inconsistency, I don't know what does. Just because ESPN consistently replays Bush's highlights does not ascribe to Bush anything near the level of consistency you are granting him.

Mario is himself somewhat inconsistent, but do not pretend as if Bush is wonderfully consistent when in fact it is just the media's portrayal of him that is the only thing consistent.

Your arguments are revealing of the sources of your logic. In this case, ESPN and the talking heads.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. When Bush went up against the closest thing to an NFL defense in terms of speed (Texas) he would see in college, he had problems breaking tackles and reaching the edge which limited his role to more or less a slot receiver. That and it seemed to me that he was afraid of getting hurt before his big pay day. again, all about the money. He also showed some signs of mental weekness. After his showboating lost his team a sure touchdown he played the rest of the game like he couldn't shake that off. Stuff happens in this league and you have to be mentally tougher than that to survive. just my :twocents:
 
gtexan02 said:
we didn't need another DL

Let me just please say that our DL was fine, and didn't need a 54 million dollar project added to it. Heres why:

A) On our strong side we just signed Weaver, a proven run stopper who got 13 million dollars guaranteed. Thats a lot of money.
B) In the middle we have Payne (dominating force with a huge contract), Smith (see Payne), and Johnson (High 1st round pick, 1st DT taken)
C) On the week side we have both Babin and Peek. Yes, neither have played a down at DE in their respective NFL careers, but neither has Mario Williams. The fact of the matter is that Babin could turn out to be an incredible DE.

Look at his college numbers:71 yards. made 33 stops behind the line of scrimmage

So maybe Williams will turn out to be an incredible DE, but I simply don't buy the "football decision" that we really needed him. In fact, we have the potential to already have a fantastic DL. If anything, we shoul have traded the 1st pick and gotten OL and DBs and LBs.

Our front office refused to pick Bush because they were worried about money and image issues. Instead, they claim we made a football decision and went with Williams. Too bad we already had the potential for an amazing DL and just wasted 54 million on it
Click to expand...

Although the Texans did not pick Vince like I would have preferred, they did fill a majority of their needs. The Texans DL was not that good and Seth Payne has never been a "dominant force" ever in his career. He has been good but he does not have the physical abilities to change the game from a defensive standpoint. The Texans did not have any dominant player on the defensive side of the ball last year. The closest thing to that was Dunta Robinson. Mario Williams and Anthony Weaver will be solid bookends for the next 10 years. Mario is much better than any of the DL we have, compared to how much better Reggie Bush is than Dominack Davis. DD has provided for this franchise his entire career, you can't say that about any of our D-linemen.

Babin and Peek will also fit into the defensive scheme as well. When a defense is aggressive it tends to get the players tired more quickly. The Texans now have the ability to rotate out defensive lineman to keep the players fresh. With the DL that we will be sending in the games on Sundays, offensive coordinators will be on the edge of their seats and QBs will be on their backs.

The offensive line was also vastly improved in the draft. We picked up two very good O-linemen and a very good blocking tight end. Carr should have plenty of time to make his throws now, with no excuses.

Sure Reggie was the popular pick, but he is an individual in a team game. The Texans filled needs, no matter how unpopular the picks were. Besides, we needed someone to chase Vince down twice a year.

Power destroys speed!
 
The Article said:
Some season-ticket holders call to cancel their seats.
Click to expand...

This is pure BS. This line was in the article describing Saturday, during the draft. The ticket office is closed on weekends, so whoever these season-ticket holders were calling, it wasn't doing much good.

My Texans ticket agent told me Monday that they were running at a 95% renewal rate, and NOBODY was calling on Monday to cancel season tickets (so no upgrade for me!).

So I hear a dog barking with no bite (because he doesn't have any teeth!!). These people need to go howl at the moon so the rest of us can get prepared to watch some football.

gtexan02, you'll always be welcomed back on the bandwagon...I'll save you a spot. Once this d-line gels and starts controlling their side of the ball, I have little doubt that you'll understand the nature of Kubiak's draft decisions.
 
TheOgre said:
Some people around here might even argue with you that RB was fine too with DD and Morency, and that Bush was merely an upgrade. Not my take on it though. I've never been a big DD fan. I like someone that either has raw power or is a home run hitter. DD is neither.
Click to expand...

Exactly, he is a mixture of both. Morency is just as fast as Bush, check the 40 times.
 
wrestler4life said:
I would love to think that we could trade Peek and get some picks next year or a higher price DB or RB
Click to expand...

Peek is not going anywhere, he fits our scheme. This years pass rush will be relentless through all 4 quarters. The Texans will have one of the best DLs in the league, if not the best.

Williams
Weaver
Babin - Also can play cover LB
Peak - Also can play cover LB
Johnson
Payne
Smith

With that rotation we will get plenty of hits on the QB, which will make the LBs and CBs better as well. When you have D-lineman that can drop back into coverage and LBs that can blitz, it makes it hard for opposing QBs to know where the blitzes will come from. With the addition of Cowart as well, the Texans defense will be very stout this year.
 
Look, I know you guys wanted the hot pick in Reggie Bush or Vince Young but believe it or not your core sucks...


Listan, Kubiak knows what he is doing. You may think just becuase he knows how to run the Denver system he can run it with any old offensive lineman but he can't. He needs to find the right lineman to do that. He did that by getting Charles Spencer and Eric Winston.

Then you got Mario Williams supposedly the next Julius Peppers. He'd be perfect to be the anchor for your defense for the next 10-14 Years if everything goes as planned. Your gonna need him too especially since you have Peyton Manning and the Colts and the Jacksonville Jaguars on the rise. Not to mention Vince Young too.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
It just said some fans called to cancel season tickets.
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That is a shame. No wonder Houston is considered one of the worst sports cities. The fair weather fans are trying to run the Texans out of town.(Matress Mac.....)

I haven't been to a Texans game due to budget constraints, but I am intentionally going to buy tickets this year to show my support.
 
trutxn said:
Exactly, he is a mixture of both. Morency is just as fast as Bush, check the 40 times.
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DD doesn't break the long one and only occasionally plows through people, but he is a mixture of both? I guess he gets the worst of both styles of runners.

I like Morency and would like to see him get more p.t. if he can learn to pass block and stop running horizontally so much.
 
gtexan02 said:
Bush was a stud for YEARS, while Williams was a stud for WEEKS. Babin was more consistent than Williams, why will no one give him a chance?
Click to expand...

Forget Bush..... he won't be a Texan.......... it ain't going to happen. Forget him. Show me where Denver has paid more than $6 million/yr to a guy, and didn't move him within a years time. Runningbacks are over rated as far as Shanahan & anyone remotely associated with him. They are not a "skilled" position..... so to speak.. Wide reciever is also on the short list in Denver..... prepare to be loosing AJ in the coming years.... the contract Molds got, is pretty close to max what a reciever should be getting....

I bet Kubiak damb near fainted when he saw our payroll.... $9 mil/yr for a DE, is also kinda high, so don't expect Mario to stick around after 6 years.

At the same time, don't expect us to ever draft so high again.

Now Babin.....

I'm with you, he's a stud, and he's going to be the one two punch other teams will fear(Mario being the one, and Babin the two actually). But imagine being able to put constant pressure on Peyton Manning down, after down, after down, for 4 full quarters..... from the front 4. throw a LB in there, or a CB every now and again.....
 
thunderkyss said:
Forget Bush..... he won't be a Texan.......... it ain't going to happen. Forget him. Show me where Denver has paid more than $6 million/yr to a guy, and didn't move him within a years time. Runningbacks are over rated as far as Shanahan & anyone remotely associated with him. They are not a "skilled" position..... so to speak.. Wide reciever is also on the short list in Denver..... prepare to be loosing AJ in the coming years.... the contract Molds got, is pretty close to max what a reciever should be getting....

I bet Kubiak damb near fainted when he saw our payroll.... $9 mil/yr for a DE, is also kinda high, so don't expect Mario to stick around after 6 years.

At the same time, don't expect us to ever draft so high again.

Now Babin.....

I'm with you, he's a stud, and he's going to be the one two punch other teams will fear(Mario being the one, and Babin the two actually). But imagine being able to put constant pressure on Peyton Manning down, after down, after down, for 4 full quarters..... from the front 4. throw a LB in there, or a CB every now and again.....
Click to expand...

Disagree on AJ. They have retained Rod Smith for years. If AJ develops true consistency, and presuming AJ goes along with his established "team/character" guy, he will retire a Texan. RB might be fairly interchangeable.

Still disagree on Babin, but I've stated why plenty of times. Hope he can truly develop into the player we drafted him to be.
 
I don't understand the original post of this thread.
No disrespect, but your defense against the run was ranked 32nd in the league last year. I would think that's far from "fine."

I think you guys scored big time picking up Williams and Ryan.
Your front office did a great job in their picks in my opinion.
 
TheOgre said:
Some people around here might even argue with you that RB was fine too with DD and Morency, and that Bush was merely an upgrade. Not my take on it though. I've never been a big DD fan. I like someone that either has raw power or is a home run hitter. DD is neither.
Click to expand...

Who needs a home run hitter when the defense sets you up at the opponent's 30? That's what Williams is designed to help do.
 
It is unbelievable to me that some people on this message board and on talk radio are saying they are cancelling their season tickets. You cannot "cancel" your season tickets at this time. This Thursday, May 4th, you must be paid up in full. 1/2 was already due two months ago. If you "really" had tickets you would know that. So if you are that stupid to think that now you can "cancel" your season tickets because you did not like the Texans drafting Williams, then I am willing to bet you are not even a season ticket holder. With most of the seats being PSL seats you would stand to lose a lot of money by forfeiting the PSL cost. So if you do not really have season tickets then.......spare us bonafide season ticket holders, from the cr*p and just tell us you will not watch on TV or listen on the radio. I'm still willing to bet you will! Now.....I feel better!:twocents:

* Peyton, playing the Texans will be like the Pittsburg game! And Vince, playing the Texans will be like the A & M game! Both of you will be looking at the Reliant roof.
 
ClintonPortis26 said:
Look, I know you guys wanted the hot pick in Reggie Bush or Vince Young but believe it or not your core sucks...


Listan, Kubiak knows what he is doing. You may think just becuase he knows how to run the Denver system he can run it with any old offensive lineman but he can't. He needs to find the right lineman to do that. He did that by getting Charles Spencer and Eric Winston.

Then you got Mario Williams supposedly the next Julius Peppers. He'd be perfect to be the anchor for your defense for the next 10-14 Years if everything goes as planned. Your gonna need him too especially since you have Peyton Manning and the Colts and the Jacksonville Jaguars on the rise. Not to mention Vince Young too.
Click to expand...

Clit.... thanks for blessing us with your presence, but please don't act like the all knowing football guru. There are two..... maybe three guys in this thread, who don't get it......... don't talk to all of us like we're children, in need of your guidance........

Most of us in this thread, are saying the same thing you are.

Try not to take this the wrong way...... you're welcome here, if you want to talk football, we're game, and we welcome intelligent discussion...... but don't patronize us......... not all of us anyway.
 
jerek said:
Disagree on AJ. They have retained Rod Smith for years. If AJ develops true consistency, and presuming AJ goes along with his established "team/character" guy, he will retire a Texan. RB might be fairly interchangeable.

Still disagree on Babin, but I've stated why plenty of times. Hope he can truly develop into the player we drafted him to be.
Click to expand...


You're right about Rod Smith.......... but AJ is making more than the multiple probowler right now...

Of course McNair will override him, but I'd hate for Kubes & Mac to go at it over something like this....... time will tell.
 
I do think the defensive line needed to be addressed especially considering trhe potential Mario Williams brings. My question is how much better will he make players like Travis Johnson. I know in the limited time TJ got in playing time last year, he wan't extremely effective, but he WAS a rookie. TJ was also a highly touted defensive lineman in last years draft with some speed himself (4.9 40 if i remember correctly). So with pressure taken off of him by a physical freak like Mario Williams, should we expect to see huge strides in T.Johnson's play???
I hope so
 
I am a big fan of having drafted Mario.

That being said, there is merit to the argument that our defensive line may have been fine by itself.

Sure, we were the 31st ranked defense last year, but back then, we were running the 3-4 defense, not the 4-3 that we are running now. Without Williams, we essentially added three linemen:

A) Anthony Weaver, LE (He'd play on top of the right tackle, for sure if Babin was opposite him)
B) Travis Johnson, DT (I include him as an addition, because now he will get to play differently than he did in a 3-4; he'll get to attack, rather than contain, making him a completely different player)
C) Jason Babin, RE (Moving to a new position, he could have been the monster that he was in college. Hell, even if he was merely mediocre at the position, it would be an upgrade over the pass rush we had previousy).

That makes 3/4 roster spots changed and upgraded. We added Williams, which further anchored the line, but our line wasn't looking SO bad without him.

Personally, I would like to see the line consist of
RE: Mario Williams
DT: Weaver, Johnson, Payne/Smith(whichever one stays on the roster)
LE: Jason Babin

as far as starters, but somehow, I doubt that will happen. That's my preferred DL lineup, however.

I'm really scared of what's going to happen to Babin. I don't relish the thought of discounting him completely. I'd rather have him out there on the line than riding the pine.
 
Also the notion that we have too many lineman is a little innacurate. Especiall with regards to Seth Payne. Had we not drafted Mario, could we really expect Seth Payne to contribute at a high level for several more years? Gary Walker is going to be cut. So excluding Paybe, we have Weaver, TJ, Kalu, Babbin, and Peek (Pre Draft). Tell me how comfortable you feel with that scenario for the start of the season.
*sorry I forgot about R.Smith
 
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